I know why the stimulus is isn't going the way the WH expected.....

[FLAprogressive]

....it's because the Compromiser-in-Chief decided that it was more important to get Republican support for the stimulus then to get a good stimulus passed.

Infrastructure programs & food stamps were gutted in favor of upper-bracket tax cuts....and that was barely enough.

Instead of accomplishing real change (changing the Senate rules) -- the stimulus was gutted for the sake of political convenience.

[graywarrior]

1. .

:popcorn:

[Buzz Clik]

3. free the duck.

[graywarrior]

5. .

:cry:

[Buzz Clik]

11. When Cheney is in shackles?

[Buzz Clik]

2. False premise. Logical fallacy.

[Oregone]

4. What premise is false?

[Buzz Clik]

10. "the stimulus is isn't going the way the WH expected"

[Oregone]

12. Biden - "Everyone guessed wrong at the time the estimate was made about what the state of the..."

Biden says 'everyone guessed wrong' on jobs number

Jun 14, 2009

WASHINGTON (AP) — Vice President Joe Biden said Sunday that "everyone guessed wrong" on the impact of the economic stimulus, but he defended the administration's spending designed to combat rising joblessness.

Biden said inaccuracies in unemployment predictions shouldn't undercut the White House's support of the $787 billion economic revival plan that has not met the expectations of President Obama's team. Instead, the vice president urged skeptics to look at teachers who kept their classroom assignments and police officers who kept their beats because of financial assistance from Washington.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hYS8CIYEBgudlm2SjLh0xekik0RwD98QK1182

Its been admitted that things are not going the way they expected. A true criticism is the concessions in tax cuts, which are not proven to be effective stimulus, per Moody's study. In fact, food stamps had the most stimulative effect, which are facing some recent challenges due to budget concerns. In retrospect, the best interests of the country were compromised while seeking a bi-partisan solution that produced a lackluster stimulus bill (though MANY economists were trying to say this at the time)

[Buzz Clik]

16. It's funny -- I heard a story today that said the indicators all suggest we've seen the worst...

... and we're on the road to recovery.

I've learned to NEVER accept anything at face value at DU. I remain better informed as a result.

[Oregone]

20. But indicators like job creation fall far short of original forecasts

(as referred to in this article)

Look, I think everyone might be being a bit chipper you know. I have no crystal ball. But if this country only sees fallout of the worst economic/financial meltdown for but a mere two years or so, well, thats a miracle (and a bit naive perhaps). The quickest recovery ever from a titanic-sized catastrophe, with an anemic stimulus bill? Well, we can all hope, and who knows, right. I think that we might just be in for a long haul, though no one wants to admit that yet.

The recession is just starting where I live (6.7% UE) and tiny decline in house prices. I think we have a long road ahead of us, though its easier to pretend in a year things will be better.

[ejpoeta]

6. and who's going to pay for that!! the dems are kidding themselves if they

think they are going to get points for 'bipartisanship'. they should just do what needs to be done and let that be the end of it. whatever you think of the republicans and their ideas, they rammed through all their bs without a thought to anything but what they wanted to do. Sure, bipartisanship is a great thing... but both parties have to want to achieve something... the same thing. the republicans DON'T want the dems to achieve anything. so their goal is to make sure whatever the dems do doesn't work. and they are going to be sorry if they don't get it on healthcare. 75% of the people want this... that includes republicans as well. anything short of a true public option is going to brand them as on the side of the health insurance companies. they need to get this DONE!

[FLAprogressive]

8. "the dems are kidding themselves if they think they are going to get points for 'bipartisanship'."

Because the party is fixated on the idea of trying to please 100% of the country 100% of the time......

[ddiver]

7. What Rep. support for the stimulus bill? None voted for it.

[FLAprogressive]

9. And that's what I'm trying to say. Obama, Pelosi, and Reid gutted the stimulus to get 3 freaking

votes and phantom Repub votes.

[lib2DaBone]

13. "Compromiser-in-Chief".....lol K&R.....

I'm not going to be a complainer/Obama basher...it no longer matters. I'm out of breath and my fingers hurt from typing. What's the old joke about "When you stop hitting your head against the wall it feels better?"

All I can say is fasten your seat belts and get ready for what's on the way. (late August & September)

It's all over and the Fat Lady is about to sing.. doesn't matter what Dems or Repukes try to do.. the damage is done and the wheels are in motion.

Read an article this morning about the $BILLIONS that Goldman Sachs sucked out of AIG (our money) and gave to Executives. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=agl7HommokY8

Money that could have given people jobs.. even if it is digging a ditch or fixing the roads... it would have given people money to buy groceries and make it one more day.

Could our elected DEMS have used this money for the people instead of giving our last survival dollar to the Banksters? Of course they could have. But did they? No.

Our CONgress doesn't give a crap about the people who elected them.... the people no longer matter. It's all about the Bankster/Gangsters.

For Instance... just look at what they gave to Foreign Banks.... MONEY THAT WE NEEDED AT HOME!

(in Billions)

Bank AIG Compensation
Societe Generale 11.0 12.0
Goldman Sachs 8.1 10.9
Deutsche Bank 5.4 13.5
Merrill Lynch 4.9 14.8
UBS 3.3 15.5





People can deny it... but that doesn't mean it is going to go away or get better.

[FLAprogressive]

15. ignore it and look at puppies

[On the Road]

14. I Don't Know Exactly What the White House Was Expecting

but it should have been something like we have now. Everyone has been predicting a recovery beginning in 2010. So far, at the very worst, things are right on schedule.

Not denying that the compromises may have been bad ones, but the stimulus was large and came soon enough to have a real effect.

[Oregone]

17. I remember everyone was saying recovery in 3rd quarter of 2009 some time ago

But, I imagine anyone with a brain probably should of revised that. Honestly, I personally thought the unemployment would be quite a bit higher than now (I assumed we would see 14% nationwide by end of 4th quarter, but I don't see that happening now. Maybe 12%)

Yes, the stimulus was "large" but not focused properly. That is the criticism of it. More effective forms of stimulus were scaled back in favor of worthless concessions of tax cuts for bipartisan support.

Clearly, the stimulus bill has had a null to positive effect on a tumbling economy (it hasn't done any harm). But the early approach created a bill that has, on the record, no met the expectations of the white house at all. It most clearly could have been more effective (if not larger)

[Zynx]

19. There is very little qualitative difference between a slow rate of contraction for the rest of the

year instead of a tepid recovery which had been predicted and to some extent still is. Most forecasts haven't changed very much in the last three months.

[Oregone]

22. No thats true

I guess we will see, and will probably have no clue as to the real end or turnaround until we can use a rearviewmirror. I was talking about early forecasts made before 3 months ago (I think even the fed predicted a 3rd quarter recovery at some point). OTOH, I understand its everyone's business to create positive perception.

[Zynx]

30. There is something to be said for cheerleading.

If businesses were all convinced business was not going to pick up for a year or two, they would fire a lot more people.

[On the Road]

25. OK, It Might Have Been More Effective

but whether it met expectations is another issue. Most recent numbers are about what you would expect from a recession that is starting to bottom and turn around. I doubt the White House was expecting positive numbers by now.

[Oregone]

26. Its hardly up for debate about it failing to meet expectations

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5905957&mesg_id=5906118

No one was expecting positive numbers. Just better numbers.

[Zynx]

18. There were no upper-brakcet tax cuts. Prove that there were.

I'm quite familiar with the stimulus bill because of my position with the state government. I look forward to you surprising me on this one.

[Oregone]

23. Wasn't it just $400 bil in tax cuts all over the board?

Regardless, tax cuts weren't a good allocation of stimulus focus, and were a result of bipartisan manipulation

[Zynx]

31. It was closer to $200 billion.

That wasn't particularly productive, but it still was not targetted for upper income groups. It's true that rich people got a tax cut, but one that meant nothing to them.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. Because, the "New Boss" met his Bosses.

And, they play hardball.

[dionysus]

24. gosh you seem like you're about to bust a vein every day...

:spray:

[librechik]

27. yup (more or less)

this appease the shitheads strategy is a big loser. We have the numbers, we need to use the power or regret it later.

No more Mr. Too Nice Guy!

[Terran]

28. Most of the stimulus money hasn't even filtered down to users yet.

States are still in the process of earmarking most of it; so I don't know how anyone can say it's a failure or not working yet because the effects are just beginning to be felt. Most states are doing road building and bridge repair, but that's about all so far.

I'm working with the HUD-related housing funds of the ARRA, and we won't see any of that until September.

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. That's been the bullshit all over the board the last day or so

Nonsense point #380: "Where's the infrastructure? Stimulus FAIL!!!!" It's all so much conjecture and stupidity, but it makes the poor little sore losers feel good about themselves.

[mvd]

32. Right, let's wait and see what happens

There's a lot of administration to go through, here. I wanted a larger stimulus, but that's not Obama's fault.