The people of Iran are more courageous and civic-minded than Americans...

[kentuck]

There were discrepancies in the votes cast, they say. Ahmedinejad did not win by the percentages they claimed. Even if he won, it was by a much smaller margin.

So the Iranians took to the street in protest. They challenged their government.

In 2000, Al Gore won the popular vote by over a half-million votes and George W Bush still proclaimed himself the winner and the Supreme Court agreed with him. Did the American people take to the street in the same way as the Iranian people? No.

In my opinion, we have no credibility in advising other people about freedom to assemble and how right they are to protest against their government. We are a nation of sheeple.

[opihimoimoi]

1. Them Iranians got hugh Balls....we got BBs....

[havocmom]

2. Democracy, education, and the rest of what made America great, crumbling like our bridges

and for the same basic reason: We think we just get handed the best of everything and never have to work to maintain anything.

America fell down the pothole of societal neglect. But, hey, we got a big tax cut for the uber rich!

[Echo In Light]

4. ..or, "democracy," and "education" crumbled resistance, and the will/conviction required for it

Depending upon which eyes one has.

[havocmom]

7. You ascribe higher motivation to the neglect than do I

I chalk it up to simple greed. We have stuff because somebody else paid for it and we (as a whole of society) don't want to pay to leave anything for the future.

Greed. Short sighted, base, vile, but greed at the root.

[Echo In Light]

8. Establishment powers have long understood the psychology involved in thought control

It only seems bizarre and conspiratorial to those who've been conditioned to perceive how societies operate as being random, with events and trends uncoordinated, manifesting within a social vacuum where nothing ties into anything else, where there are no overarching aims, machinations or deceptions, and each's own views and preferences are attained w/o any external influence. Nothing could be further from the truth, but the public mind is conditioned to not think in those terms and ask such questions. People accept it because they'd rather not be responsible. They want to be controlled on some level, as long as it's pacifying, and allows them to compete w/others socially and reap cosmetic rewards. People can be socially conditioned to exalt their own degradation/subjugation, but will often deny it vehemently if called on it.

So, no, it isn't a case of a single individual "ascribing a higher motivation to the neglect" (the oft used criticism against any deemed a "conspiracy theorist") it's a matter of documented fact re how thought control is used against the populace in democratic society. Hell, one can take college courses on the subject. Walter Lippmann, Herbert Marcuse, Noam Chomsky, David Ray Griffin, Michael Parenti, just to name a few obvious Left examples of comprehensive, well documented, well sourced data on The Big Lie tactic vs The Big Stick - and that so many Americans wouldn't have a clue as to what those terms even mean or represent is a strong indicator of just how deeply entrenched the big lies are, and are always at work within, the public mind.

[Occam Bandage]

3. I think comparing America in 2000 to Iran today is a wee bit solipsistic.

[kentuck]

5. How so?

?

[Echo In Light]

10. Because w/o that default position, the obvious sticks out like a sore thumb

Same reason why some honestly believe that mass criminal conspiracies and cover ups within the corporate/state nexus are non-existent. Just how most American reacted upon having to be 'bothered' by hearing from all of those 'crazy CTs' who would not SHUT UP about Bushco supposedly "stealing elections." Quack. They wanted/needed the lie to stand, for w/o it, they'd be responsible, and pussified, brainwashed America certainly couldn't have that.

[redqueen]

12. Shit like this needs to be stickied.

"how is it so different?" Really? Really?!

The same goes for FDR's election and reforms, too. Not that most here want to devote any time to considering that, either.

[Romulox]

6. The Iranians have a culture and a national identity. We have corporate greed

, never ending imperial warfare (see corporate greed) and a Constitution in tatters.

It's little wonder that we aren't willing to fight for Corporate Candidate B instead of Corporate Candidate A. :hi:

[Imagevision]

9. In 2004 Bush again swiped the election from Kerry, did we take to the streets then either

[salguine]

11. You see a million angry people marching on Congress for healthcare?

[Justpat]

13. Agree.

We have become a nation of cowards.


For me, when the bush v. Gore coup went off without a hitch or a whimper of protest from the people, it was the death knell of democracy
in this country.

We experienced a political coup, shrugged out shoulders and like good citizens, went shopping and forgot about it.

Nothing will change here unless we make it happen. Our leaders of all persuasion have sold their souls to corporate donors
in order to hold onto power.


When those elected to public office hold that office with regard only to corporate interest, we are fucked. It is way past time for a
true Progressive Party to take shape and kick the shit out of every democratic senator and representative who sold us out.

[chatnoir]

14. I've thought the same many times

When 2000 happened there weren't mass nationwide demonstrations, with people here risking their lives, getting tear gassed, arrested or shot in the street.

They are brave people who make us look weak and very pathetic in comparison.