Another blow to public education, another step down the path towards privatized education

[MadHound]

"WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court on Monday shifted the landscape for students with learning disabilities, saying parents can in many instances bypass public school special education programs and be reimbursed for private school tuition instead.

The court ruled 6-3 in favor of a teenage boy from Oregon whose parents sought to force their local public school district to pay the $5,200 a month it cost to send their son to a private school.

Under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, the nation's special education students are entitled to a "free and appropriate public education." Federal law calls for school districts to reimburse students or their families for education costs when public schools do not have services that address or fulfill the students' needs.

But schools have argued that the law says parents of special education students must give public special education programs a chance before seeking reimbursement for private school tuition. The Forest Grove, Ore., School District said the parents were ineligible for reimbursement because their son had not been in public special education classes.

A majority at the Supreme Court disagreed."

<http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1154ap_us_supreme_court_special_education.html>

In other words parents don't have to have a diagnosed learning disability (this student's disability was never officially diagnosed. Nor are they now required to find if the services offered by the public school system are effective for their child. Nope, they can simply send their child to a private school (in this case it was a private boarding school), and then demand that the public school system pay for the tuition (in this case tuition was $65,000 for one year)

This is absurd, and it's simply another step on the road to bankrupting our public school system and replacing it with a taxpayer funded private school system. I fully agree with the ideals of the IDEA act, but the fact of the matter is that the student should be required to have an official diagnosis, and also at least give the public education system a shot for one year.

But instead we have the corporatists on the SCOTUS continue to advance corporate education, at the expense of public education. Just blithely rolling down the road towards a two tiered education system.

[RandomThoughts]

1. Look what the corporations did to the media.

And you will understand why they want to take over the school systems.

As long as some public schools exist, they have to play it pretty straight with history, but if all schools were owned by a few corporations, what do you think they would teach? Would they even teach at all?

They already have slanted the text books, and used fixed testing to drive teaching to a set agenda instead of teaching critical thinking.

[AngryAmish]

2. Change the law - immediately

One can find a doctor to diagnose any sort of learning disability. Of course I would like to have my fellow taxpayers to pay for private school tuition - the public schools in Chicago are garbage. What is to stop me from making the taxpayer pay for my tot's tuition in a school where she would actually learn something?

[MadHound]

3. With this corporate friendly Congress, and a president who is promoting corporate education

I doubt that the law will be changed. Instead the public school system will continue to be bled to death from a thousand different cuts.

Sixty five thousand dollars in tuition, hell, that will get you a couple years in college for that kind of money.

Nor should you be so sure that your tot would actually learn something in a private school. They actually have a higher rate of variability than public schools. While there might be some really good schools, most are average at best, with a significant number that are absolutely horrible.

[AngryAmish]

4. Did you nitice the Obamas sent their children to private school in Chicago?

Ours is a wretched system.

There are a few good schools in the Chicago Public Schools. These are for the children of the connected and a small lottery for regular kids. The rest are complete garbage. The Catholic schools are mostly better. The real private schools (Latin, Lab Schhol - Obama's kids went there- etc) are really good and really expensive.

[MadHound]

5. Are the schools so bad due to lack of money?

The public schools around here (mid Missouri) are actually quite good, but then again they get at least most of the funding that is needed.

[AngryAmish]

12. The Chicago Public Schools exist to serve their employees, not the kids

They get plenty of money. Not that you would ever here that from the employees - they have an insatiable lust for more money and less work.

[Odin2005]

15. If my experiences are any indicator that is the same for most school.

If that pisses off many DUers I don't really give a crap.

[MadHound]

19. Ah, what great logic there

Taking your own limited, biased, narrow experience and generalizing it to the rest of the school system. Don't you think that this is rather illogical thinking? Don't you think that this is a huge fallacy of yours?

Sounds to me like you simply want to get revenge on all schools. That's your problem, you need to deal with it.

[Odin2005]

21. I post at a message board for people with Asperger's and many have similar experiences.

[MadHound]

34. And how many people are on this message board

Again, you are taking a small statistical sample and using it to generalize to the entire system. A skewed, biased, self selected sample at that.

Rather than going on these types of anecdotal analyses, why not actually investigate the records of the schools, records of the students, and go from there, you know, do a logical and statistically significant sample.

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. Well people with Aspergers have lots of negative social and cultural experiences

That's part of Aspergers. I hardly think that what a bunch of people with Aspergers think who post on an internet discussion board is indicative of a genuine problem.

[RayOfHope]

67. Odin, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you? I ask b/c Aspergers is a fairly 'new'

diagnosis. In *my* experience, we are learning more about it every day, and can provide better services. If its been awhile since you've been in school, it may be different now.

[Odin2005]

91. I'm 23, I was dignosed when I was 15 and I graduated in 2004.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. I thought it was a lab school funded by tax dollars?

[AngryAmish]

11. Labratory School of U of Chicago

Private and exclusive. U of C is in Hyde Park on the South Side.

The surrounding neighborhood is a war zone. They could not get any U of C employee to live near school unless they had a private school for their kids.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

32. Do you recall that he went to one of the top private school in the country (Punahou)

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. But I thought Rod Paige fixed those schools!

Aren't they all just awesome now that he fired all the employees and painted the hallways? Are you saying his miracle plan did not work?? :)

[AwakeAtLast]

42. Doctors don't diagnose learning disabilities - teachers do

That's why students need to go to public schools to be diagnosed. I don't know many private schools around here who will even accept students with learning disabilities, so this ruling perplexes me.

[lumberjack_jeff]

64. Whaa?

Uh, no. Teachers don't "diagnose".

[RayOfHope]

68. Not true. We often use outside evals to gather as much info as possible, and teachers do not diag.

our school has an eval team. We have counselors, diagnosticians, and psychological examiners that do our testing. We call in outside professionals if we need more info. General ed OR special ed teachers do not ever, ever determine a diagnosis.

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. Actually parents are allowed to get private evaluations at their expense

and schools are obligated to consider the diagnosis.

[paulsby]

111. bwahahahahahahaha!

this is a pretty funny post.

teachers diagnose learning disorders?

lol

[AwakeAtLast]

112. In public education, yes

Qualified, highly trained teachers who specialize in many learning disorders. Doctor input is sought when it is determined that it is needed. This post is about public education, not children who are diagnosed at birth or in preschool. Go ahead and laugh, many children are serviced by wonderful professional educators every single day.

[paulsby]

116. that's still wrong

teachers do not DIAGNOSE. they can offer their opinion.

a cop, similarly, can offer an opinion (paranoid, etc.) as to a person's mental state. that is not a DIAGNOSIS.

doctors/psychologists make diagnoses, not teachers.

[LWolf]

6. This happened in my state.

Anger is a puny word for what I feel towards the privatizers. All of them.

Should this become a regular practice, how long will it take to bankrupt the public education system completely?

And, since when are private schools more qualified to address learning disabilities than public special ed teachers? Our sped programs are never fully funded, but we can be forced to pay that kind of tuition for ONE student?

[MadHound]

10. What gets me is that the kid doesn't have to have a diagnosis, an IEP, or even try the public school

Instead the parent can unilaterally make the decision, and stick their kid in the most expensive school they can find (in this case it was a boarding school).

And since private schools don't have to meet the same standards as public schools, the special ed programs don't have to be up to the standards of public schools.

What's funny is that this kid, who the parents are saying had ADHD, was pulled out when he was a junior in high school. They had talked with the school, and the school counselors were saying that the kid was smoking too much dope. Which wouldn't surprise me, especially considering that ADHD is diagnosed years earlier.

That's what the plan is apparently, to keep adding on costs, costs of NCLB, costs of private tuition, costs, costs, costs, while revenue is dropping like a rock and the public doesn't want to vote in a tax hike. Bankrupt the public school system, and force the taxpayers to pick up the tab for private education. It's utterly insane.

[ChazII]

22. Insane describes this situation

perfectly.

[LWolf]

54. ADHD? That's the qualification?

Good god.

Utterly insane is right.

[Odin2005]

17. There are a lot of private schools spicifically for people with LDs and developmental disabilities.

And I'll just say that I have very bad experiences with the idiot "teachers" in Special Ed when I was a kid. They treated my Asperger's as a big excuse to be lazy. :eyes:

[LWolf]

53. How long ago was that?

In my experience, Asperger's has been under-diagnosed, misunderstood, and mishandled for a long time. It's getting better; all teachers, not just sped teachers, are getting more information about Asperger's in the last few years. It takes time to update an entire nation of teachers, special ed and regular classroom, whose preparation programs did not include autism or Asperger's.

We've still got a long way to go. BTW, FWIW, I got to work with my first Asperger's student for 6 years, K-5th grade, 3 of those as his full time classroom teacher. He taught me much, and I remember him with affection.

We DID run into quite a bit of misunderstanding and mishandling on the part of other teachers. It took some years of educating them about this student, because they had never experienced Asperger's before.

Asperger's is just one group of students served by special ed teachers, and a very small group, at that.

[Odin2005]

92. I graduated in 2004

[LWolf]

103. Only 5 years.

It probably doesn't help much to hear about recent steps forward in educating educators about Aspergers. It IS beginning to happen, though.

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. If you are old enough to be posting here

there's a good chance Aspergers wasn't a recognized disability under IDEA when you were in school.

[snappyturtle]

80. The whole purpose of NCLB was to bankrupt the schools.

They've been trying for a long time. If schools don't reach lofty goals they get less funding and can be forced, if low rating lasts long enough, to pay transportation costs of children in their district to a better school. Oh, THAT helps.

I know that many may disagree with me but having taught I think the education today is piss poor because nobody wants to offend teachers or students or parents. Education is hard work by all three groups. We don't need the carnival atmosphere, expensive buildings,or over emphasized sports programs. We need a general recognition of the value of education.

Last Sunday we went to a cookout at my step DIL's. She proudly presented a large plastic spined book of one of her sons. It was comprised of a few pages, representative of the son's 'best' work of drawings and writing samples. The September and May parts looked the same! The printing was no better in May than September. Misspelled words were unmarked and not corrected. It was sweet but................I guess she didn't see what I saw. Maybe I'm being too critical; do you think so? I have visited the school several times, three grand-children there, and my over-all impression each time I visit is that all the children are good looking and all above average. "Something" just isn't right.

[LWolf]

106. I don't disagree.

The "standards and accountability" movement behind NCLB and the state versions that came first is all about privatization. The propaganda machine runs full steam, you set schools up to fail on purpose, and then push to use public money for privatized, de-regulated education.

[snappyturtle]

113. I agree with you too. It's also an easy way to leave the poor

schools behind. After all they were given a chance and just didn't meet the standards. :sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. As an LD teacher, this is quite shocking

$5200 a month? That's nuts. I would imagine one could find private schools that teach kids with autism where the tuition is lower than this.

[MadHound]

14. It's a boarding school

What I find even more shocking is that an official diagnosis was never required. Heard that little gem yesterday on NPR
<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105775080>

Just another way to bankrupt the public school system. I'm really starting to get worried about finding a job next year. I'm pretty well rooted to my current location, wife has job, have a farm, etc., yet the surrounding school districts are cutting budgets and cutting jobs. Columbia just whacked out four million for the year, along with 80+ jobs. I'd hate to have spent four years in college only to have to go back to another damn grunt job.

How are you doing? Nice to see you didn't get blown away or washed downstream last week. The county has got to do some repair work on the nearby bridge, it's been getting overtopped regularly this spring, and that's eroded away the bridge moorings and foundations.

Stay cool, it's a scorcher today:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. It's a bizarre story all around

Why does a kid who MIGHT have LD need a boarding school?

As for your job, KC is almost always hiring. I would imagine St Louis as well.

I am fine. Teaching summer school.

Hey I will be in Columbia July 13-15 for some work with DESE. If you want to get together for a drink, PM me :hi:

[Odin2005]

13. I have a developmental disablillity (Asperger's Syndrome) and I agree with the ruling

Thanks for saying that you are willing to step all over us in the name of ideological purity. :eyes: The article says the kid WAS diagnosed with ADD, where the hell is the "he wasn't diagnosed" BS coming from?

[MadHound]

18. Nice to see that you're willing to bankrupt public schools

The bit about him not being officially diagnosed comes from here
<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105775080>

I'm not saying that I'm willing to step all over you in the name of ideological purity, whatever that means. What I am saying is that I find it absurd to force a public school system to pay an outrageous amount of money ($65,000 for a private boarding school for one year) one the simple say-so of the parent, who made a unilateral decision. The student wasn't given an official diagnosis, wasn't given an IEP, hell wasn't even given a chance to find out if public school services were effective! His parents simply pulled him out and put him in a private boarding school, and expects the public to pay the exorbitant tuition.

If the kid had a diagnosis, if the kid had an IEP, if the kid had tried public school services and then had found them lacking, I would have no problem with this. But instead, the parents made an uninformed, unilateral decision, and now wants the public to pay for that decision.

[Odin2005]

24. I think the system is broken beyond redemption and needs to be remade, not band-aided.

Most of these "education experts" on all sides are arguing over different ideologically motivated band-aids (the "privatization is good" idiots vs. the "you can help by just throwing money at the problem!" nonsense.).

For one thing I think high school should be structured more like college.

[MadHound]

31. Well, continuing to force public schools to pay for unfunded mandates,

And now pay for private tuitions certainly isn't going to help the problem.

As far as "throwing money at the problem" point me to any school system that has done that. Given that taxpayers have never wanted to pay for public education, combined with the increasing number of services that public education has been mandated to pay for, no school system in this country has ever had a surplus of money

How would you further structure high school like college?

[Odin2005]

95. Well, I would put less emphasis in daily homeork and more on longer assignments

Also, IMO larger class sizes would not be necessarily a bad thing if it meant better paid teachers (better pay means you can get better teachers) as long as you have good paraprofessionals for more 1-to-1 stuff.

This is not a "more like college thing" but responsibility for youth sports should be transfered to the local government, schools are for education, not sports

For high school I would completely scrap the traditional "grade level" system and instead have it be like college in which you have a set of required and elective courses. In my last 2 years of HS we switched to a more college-like "block" system in which we had some classes in the fall semester and other classes in the spring semester, this would fit in perfectly with this more college-like system.
There would be various different "paths" one could take, either, say, a vocational-"trade school" path, a science-engineering path, or a liberal arts path. This would allow greater flexibility in meeting the students' individual needs.

This tendency for schools to become prison-like fortresses needs to be reversed ASAP, and high school students don't need to be treaded like little kids.

Standardized testing is not necessarily a bad thing, but this NCLB BS of making it the be-all and end-all of things is ridiculous.

[patrice]

23. Looks as though both sides are willing to "step all over" each other.

While your diagnosis may be valid, you must admit that not all are. I have worked in a private schools whose main mission was to see to it that difficult kids took their meds and kept their butts in their seats long enough for us to pass them along.

There's a lot of self-serving BS for diagnosis going on, enabling bad parents and bad systems, and I do not want my tax dollars to enable that Shit.

[SoCalDem]

89. There does not seem to be a rush for "home-schooling" kids with disabilities

and as a parent, I could see where that would often be the best case for everyone. Many of the avid homeschoolers say they want their kids to be safe, and to progress at their own pace, yet handicapped kids get schlepped all over the place and are often mistreated.

Unfortunately, public schooling was never meant to offer "specialized" education. It was meant to teach kids to read, write, and learn basics, so they could be productive workers. There was a general assumption that all/most kids in any given area, were raised in pretty much the same way, and were on par with each other.

[donco6]

27. ADD isn't in the stable of special education conditions.

Don't kill the messenger - just stating the federal regs.

[RayOfHope]

28. No, but it can fall under "OHI", which is other health impairment, but ONLY

if its shown that the condition has adverse educational impact and that school based special services will benefit the student. It doesn't happen very often, but it does on occasion.

[donco6]

40. But wouldn't that require documentation of impact on education?

And who gets to document? Anyone? Here in Colorado, this will be used by the WEALTHY, not the poor, to send their "ADD" kids to boarding schools.

[RayOfHope]

46. for sure it requires documentation, which is why it doesn't happen too often

because many kids who are medically diagnosed with ADD/ADHD are doing well. We use teacher observation reports and classroom assessments/grades for documentation. The eval team (sped case manager, process coordinator, etc) gathers the documentation.

I totally do not agree with this ruling, FWIW. I think its crap.

edited to say that usually this will fall under a 504 plan as opposed to an IEP.

[donco6]

50. Ah yes, that matches what I was thinking.

The rules change so often I was wondering if I was behind the times. Which would not be unusual. :)

This ruling will kill our programs if there is no money attached. It won't impact my district much because poor parents don't generally let their kids out of their sight. But the state budget is going to be decimated when white parents in Jeffco and Douglas Co. find out about thsi.

[RayOfHope]

29. ADD doesn't automatically render one eligible for special services.

Neither do some other diagnoses. Our special ed director explains it to us as a three prong question:

Is there a diagnosis (this is a must. If there isn't, we stop the process right there)
Is there adverse educational impact
Is this a problem that school special services can fix

As donco noted alone, ADD or ADHD is not a stand alone, categorical diagnosis in the school system. There are 13, one of which is Other Health Impaired, and on occasion ADHD will fall under that.

[AwakeAtLast]

45. Develpmental disability does not equal learning disabled

Many of the students in my school with Asperger's are in our G/T classes, not in Special Ed. classes. I don't see anyone stepping on you.

ADD is diagnosed by doctors, not teachers. This student was not diagnosed with a learning disability.

I get the feeling that people think diagnosing students is easy. It's not. It requires many professional people working together to find the right diagnosis. Most of those people exist in the public schools, not private schools.

[RayOfHope]

48. I agree 100% with everything you said as a sped teacher and a parent of a kiddo with Aspergers. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. The bigger question is why does a kid with ADD need a boarding school

and why should the taxpayers foot the bill?

Sorry but our public schools can't afford to put some of our kids in exclusive schools at the expense of the rest of our kids whose parents don't have attorneys.

[jazzjunkysue]

16. Public ed teacher, here. Taxpayer revolt will stop this. The special ed people

have hidden behind the IDEA law, using disabled children as a shield.

This exposes the real intent of the IDEA lobby: We've emptied wall street, the federal reserve, put the entire country in endless debt, and now, the only place left to pilfer is the local school tax dollars.

So we're going to get rich stealing from our neighbors, and pretend it's because our special needs kids are so desperate for a fair education.

Local taxpayers will be all over this in local paper, and contacting their legislators to stop this abuse of IDEA.

In the end, the reasonable needs of special ed kids will suffer because of the corporate involvement in a few ridiculous cases like this one.

[MadHound]

20. Yep, part of the ongoing assault on public schools,

An assault that has been ratcheted up the past few years, what with NCLB, cases like this, and now Arne Duncan heading education.

We're headed for a two tier education system, private for those who can afford it, public for the rest, and the sad thing is that neither system will adequately meet the needs of the students or teachers.

The dumbing down of America progresses apace.

[hayu_lol]

26. Awful lot of 'fundies' in...

Forest Grove Oregon. Someone good at research might want to do some digging.

$65K will buy a year at Harvard.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

30. Some of the "assault" may be deserved

Hawaii Special Ed was a hell hole. Then came the Felix consent decree. Subsequently the state has been brought back into court for failing to keep up its end of the agreement. Its an endless cycle.

Interestingly enough, when the state tried economic inducements to get more qualified teachers to come to Hawaii and work in the public schools ion support of the Felix decree, the union objected.

This kind of diversion to the private sector is about the only way kinds with real needs can be addressed in many cases.

[Odin2005]

37. Watch out, you'll be crucified for criticizing the Holy Teacher's Union.

More qualified teachers would threaten the job security of the mediocre teachers already there, can't have that, it would be "anti-union"! :eyes:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

39. Actually the fault was the Hawaii DOE.

I actually don't blame the union for wanting more for their members, that is their job (NEA is not in it for the children no matter what they claim). Hawaii has very strong union support and there was the outsider angle as well.

[MadHound]

38. Do you think that a private school system

Which pays less to teachers, and thus attracts fewer and less qualified teachers, is really the best way to address this? Not to mention that private schools spend less on infrastructure, less on program materials, etc. etc. After all, since they're in this for a profit and are going to keep overhead down by any means possible.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

41. You forget this is special ed, where the salaries are higher

And in that context, private may be the only way to get the kids the help they need.

[MadHound]

43. I know several special ed teachers across the country

And those in the public school system get paid more, and have better institutional support than those in private schools. In fact most private schools in this country don't take special ed students, unlike public schools which are mandated to educate special ed students.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

62. There are a growing number of special ed only private schools

This ruling will accelerate that growth.

[RayOfHope]

65. There is one very near where I live, and we already have parents pushing our district

to pay tuition for their students to go there. There have been a few cases where the district agrees and pays tuition--these two particular students have autism and are saftey/flight risks. In this case, it costs the district less to send them to the private school than to hire extra personnel for one on one supervision.

[RayOfHope]

47. Wrong--all sped teachers are not paid more. That is at the discretion of the school district.

In my district, sped teachers are paid the same as reg ed teachers.

[donco6]

51. The reason sped teachers appear to be paid more is -

because they have to have Masters' degrees to qualify for Title VIB funds. But they're paid on the same salary sched as all other teachers.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

61. Which is a mistake and why private special ed is going to continue to grow

[ProgressiveProfessor]

60. Whis is part of the problem and why many districts are short of Special Ed teachers

Hawaii BOE tried that approach and failed when trying to meet the Felix decree

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. I am supposed to be making more money than my peers?

Damn. Where do I file my complaint?

[lumberjack_jeff]

76. I find it interesting that in my state...

... all preschool teachers are required to have a special ed certification.

Maybe that's appropriate, I dunno. I just think it odd that teaching preschool requires so much more education than teaching 12th grade physics.

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. All preschool teachers or the ones working in sped settings?

They don't use sped terminology at the preschool level. The sped programs are called 'Early Childhood' programs.

Also preschool education is rarely state mandated or funded by states so it's hard to believe states would mandate certification regs for preschool teachers.

Could that be what you're thinking of?

[lumberjack_jeff]

78. My wife's best friend is a preschool teacher.

She has been unable to work as a preschool teacher because she lacks the special ed certification. She has told me that it requires a masters degree.

So, she is employed by a dinky little nearby district as "paraeducator"... running their preschool.

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. That's crazy

Like I said if states aren't funding preschools why are they mandating certification requirements? Nutty stuff.

But then again I have seen state educ depts do lots of nutty stuff. LOL

[lumberjack_jeff]

81. I think washington does fund preschool, to a degree

There is a birth-to-three program funded by the state.

I spent a few minutes searching the OSPI site, but didn't find anything useful to this discussion.
http://www.k12.wa.us/EarlyLearning/default.aspx

[donco6]

82. They do some Early Head Start, and 3/4 yr old special ed.

But that's all I know of.

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. Every state has that birth to three program

I think it's mandated by the Feds. But not preschool. Go figure. :shrug:

[jazzjunkysue]

101. Not true at all in my school district. People move to my district or pay tuition

because our special services are so well regarded.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

36. I think your pensions will be hit first

Special ed kids are much more sympathetic than a public employee who is perceived as having better benefits etc than the average joe. Not supporting that, but the drumbeat against them is getting louder in favor.

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. Our pensions are part of a separate system

The school district can't touch them. Neither can the state.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

97. So they are fully and independently funded with no recourse to the public agencies and defined

benefit as well? I would be incredulous if that were true.

Public defined benefit pensions in California always have recourse to the sponsoring agencies to demand more money. That is going on now. I fully expect to see a reversal of some of the more generous pension decisions from the Gray Davis era retracted, at least for new retirees. Another run to convert defined benefit to defined contribution is also a sure thing and it may pass this time around.

http://www.sacbee.com/walters/story/1965212.html
http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/story/1962177.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

98. School districts cannot touch our pensions

Trust me, they have tried. That's why they are set up as separate funds.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

100. That is not what I postulated...

If the funds run low, can the district be required to put more in?

Can the district redefine the payout formula?

[proud2BlibKansan]

109. Hmm I don't think so

But honestly, I am not sure. I could find out though.

It's not an issue in my district as our pension fund is in good shape.

This is a negotiated benefit so if the district did want to redefine the payout formula, they would have to renegotiate our contract.

[rateyes]

57. Public ed Special Ed teacher here:

You need to read the article. This decision does not do what the OP says it does. If the school system offers a FAPE to a child, the system does not have to reimburse for private school tuition. This case doesn't even require the system to pay the reimbursement if the lower courts decide that the school system did offer the FAPE and the parents did not take advantage of it. See my post below.

[ProfessorGAC]

102. Special Ed? My Wife Did That

She's retired now, but did it for 25+ years. She was mostly in ED and BD. You should be proud of yourself. It's an important and really hard job.
GAC

[donco6]

25. Are the feds going to forward the funds?

Because having ONE kid do this will cost me $50,000 in additional funds beyond what I get for sped+regular ed.

[Davis_X_Machina]

35. No. The average school district...

...gets ~7-10% of its total budget from Federal sources. Granted that's higher in some areas than others -- school nutrition, much, much higher, regular instructional salaries, zero -- but the district as a whole cuts the checks.

[Brewman_Jax]

33. Looks like the privatizers are trying another path of attack

vouchers was too obvious, so they'll try the IDEA path to destroy the public school system. A "diagnosis" can't be too hard to acquire, between that and the school systems having to go to defend itself in court, seems like a win-win--for the privatizers.

[donco6]

44. Especially when they have to defend themselves and have never seen the kid.

Makes it a little tough.

[donco6]

49. I realize there are school districts that don't serve their kids well -

However, I can tell you that out here, this law will be used ONLY by the rich to send their kids to private boarding schools back east. I can't even get our Chicano/a parents (of which my school's pop is over 70%) to let their kids out of their sight long enough to go to a one-week science camp. It just doesn't happen.

Plus we have a great program here. We have about 11% receiving special ed services (pretty typical) - most speech language. Of the transition students - the ones with highest needs - we sent HALF to college in New Mexico at a really great school that caters to these kids' needs.

This amount of funding would purchase a full-time, one-on-one teacher.

[rateyes]

52. Or, the school system, I would think, could hire a

special education teacher that fulfills the student's needs in the public schools. A kid with ADD can have an appropriate education in the public schools with the right teacher.

[MadHound]

55. The thing is, this school system had a special ed teacher,

An entire special ed program, yet the parents refused to give it a try. Instead, they unilaterally decided to put their child in a private boarding school, and now the taxpayers get to pay for it.

[rateyes]

58. Please read my post below.

And, I am a Special Ed teacher in the public schools.

[rateyes]

59. And, again the SCOTUS did NOT require reimbursement.

All this decision did was to ask the lower courts to determine IF the school system OFFERED a FAPE to this child. If it did, as you assert, it will not have to reimburse. If it's determined they didn't, then they will have to make the reimbursement.

The school system, in its argument said that they offered a FAPE, and the parents didn't try it and should not be allowed to request reimbursement. The parents are saying that the education offered wasn't appropriate, and that's why the didn't try. The child has already graduated---the bills have already been paid by the parents.

All that's left for the courts to determine is: "Was the education offered by the school system APPROPRIATE for this specific child." If, as I suspect, they find out the system did offer a FAPE, then the parents are shit out of luck. They won't see a dime.

[rateyes]

56. After reading the article, I think your interpretation of the ruling is flawed.

This ruling did NOT require the school district to reimburse the tuition costs already incurred. Rather, it sent the case back to the federal court level and instructed the court to "consider all relevant factors, including the notice provided by parents and the school district's opportunities for evaluating the child, in determining whether reimbursement for some or all of the cost of the child's private school education is warranted."

In other words, the Supreme Court overturned a decision that said that this family could not seek REIMBURSEMENT for expenses already paid because they did not "try" public special education first.

All the court is doing is saying that the federal courts must look at this ONE SPECIFIC case and see if the public school system did indeed offer to provide a "free appropriate public education." If they did offer that, and the parents chose not to avail themselves of the offer, they don't get reimbursed. If the school system did not offer a "free appropriate public education" for this student, then the courts CAN order reimbursement for PART or ALL of the tuition costs because of the school systems failure to offer that FAPE.

As the lawyer for the student said, School districts "can avoid any liability for tuition reimbursement by providing a free appropriate public education to a child with a disability."

I'd like to know what the school system did or did not offer to the student after having been diagnosed.

And, that's another mistake in your interpretation. You said that a child need not be "diagnosed" with a disability. Yes, they do. And, this child was diagnosed with ADHD.

[cagesoulman]

66. But dude: Stevens wrote the majority opinion; Souter, Scalia and Thomas dissented !

The Forest Grove, Ore., School District said the parents were ineligible for reimbursement because their son had not been in public special education classes.

A majority at the Supreme Court disagreed.

"We conclude that IDEA authorizes reimbursement for the cost of special education services when a school district fails to provide a FAPE and the private-school placement is appropriate, regardless of whether the child previously received special education or related services through the public school," said Justice John Paul Stevens, who wrote the majority opinion.

In the case before the Supreme Court, the family of a teenage Oregon boy diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder - who was identified only as T.A. - sued the school district, saying the school did not properly address the student's learning problems. The family is seeking reimbursement for the student's tuition, which cost $5,200 a month. The family paid a total of $65,000 in private tuition.

In its appeal, the Forest Grove School District said students should be forced to at least give public special education programs a try before seeking reimbursement for private tuition. If not, lawyers argue, parents would bypass public schools and go directly to private school - and then ask for reimbursement from school systems already burdened by ever-increasing costs.

School districts "can avoid any liability for tuition reimbursement by providing a free appropriate public education to a child with a disability," said lawyer David Salmons, who argued the case for T.A. But "if they fail to do that, they may be responsible for private school tuition if the parents can show that it's an appropriate case."

The court's decision does not require reimbursement, but Stevens said school officials "must consider all relevant factors, including the notice provided by parents and the school district's opportunities for evaluating the child, in determining whether reimbursement for some or all of the cost of the child's private school education is warranted."

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1154ap_us_supreme_court_special_education.html

[lumberjack_jeff]

74. It is a good ruling.

School districts do not get to unilaterally determine what constitutes FAPE, and students should not be forced to spend a year in an unsuitable Special Ed program just to save the district some money.

If a student's LD or DD makes a specialized school appropriate, then that is where they should go. In my state, the local school district can then apply for "safety net" funding to finance that extraordinary need.

It would be great if these specialized schools could be public, by a consortium of school districts for instance, but that is not the way the system is set up.

In this case, the parents spent $65k on tuition because they believed the district's program was unsuitable. It is now incumbent on the district to prove that their program was suitable. In my experience, I find it completely plausible that with a diagnosis of ADHD, the district wouldn't give the student an IEP. In fact, my middle son is in exactly that boat. He has bounced from school to school because his home district wouldn't give him an IEP when he was young enough for it to do some good.

School districts "can avoid any liability for tuition reimbursement by providing a free appropriate public education to a child with a disability," said lawyer David Salmons, who argued the case for T.A. But "if they fail to do that, they may be responsible for private school tuition if the parents can show that it's an appropriate case."

The court's decision does not require reimbursement, but Stevens said school officials "must consider all relevant factors, including the notice provided by parents and the school district's opportunities for evaluating the child, in determining whether reimbursement for some or all of the cost of the child's private school education is warranted."

The federal courts must now determine whether T.A's parents will get his private school fees reimbursed from public school coffers. "The parents will now have an opportunity, which they have been seeking for some time, to show that reimbursement was an appropriate form of relief in this case," Salmons said.

[rateyes]

75. You are correct. It's a good decision.

[madfloridian]

85. So the school MUST provide a program, but the student doesn't have to use it?

And can sue the school for money to attend a private school even if the public school provides the education?

That is the death knell for public schools.

They will spend their time in litigation....and everyone else will suffer.

This, like NCLB, is a backdoor way of getting rid of the tradition our country had of public schools.

It breaks my heart.

[rateyes]

87. The school MUST provide the program. If they provide a program

that is considered a FAPE, then the parents can't be reimbursed for a private education if they choose not to participate. What the parents in this case are arguing is that the school system did not provide a program that was free and appropriate---which would be a breach of the law.

If the courts agree with the parents, they will win either partial or full reimbursement because the school system will have been found in breach of the Individual with Disabilities Education Act.

If the courts do not agree with the parents, then they are shit out of luck. This lawsuit has simply been sent back to the federal courts to decide that question.

Again, it's a good decision. A parent who enrolls their special needs child in a private school expecting to be reimbursed their costs better damned well have real evidence that the public school system is not providing a FAPE for their child, and this case doesn't change that fact.

[lumberjack_jeff]

88. The school MUST provide an appropriate program, either in-house or out.

In the case where they can't provide an appropriate program locally, they are able to seek help from the state to fund that extraordinary need.

Schools who won't provide FAPE should expect to spend their resources on litigation instead.

I find it intriguing that educating special needs kids is the death knell for schools, but reserving office space for teachers under investigation at a cost of $65 million for the NYC school district alone is not.

No. Schools are not failing because of children with disabilities.

This ruling simply requires the district to demonstrate that they had an appropriate program in place, and that they made it available to the student in question.

[madfloridian]

90. There is so much involved than that.

I taught for many years, over 30. I referred and worked with many children with all kinds of disabilities.

You can not give an en masse type of permission to parents to sue because it will break the public schools.

I don't know about the parking spaces you mention..that sounds like that districts' problem to me. What has that got to do with children with disabilities?

Don't you dare try to put me on the defensive. I taught and loved too many kids for that kind of insinuation.

You can not give such a blanket permission to sue and let schools survive.

[lumberjack_jeff]

93. Teachers and parents of special needs kids should not be adversaries.

It pisses me off when children with disabilities and their parents are blamed for the failure of public schools.

It also bugs me that teachers here complain about ill-treatment when this thread gets many recommends and this one gets zero.

Parents don't need permission to sue. What they need is a winnable case. School districts are completely empowered to avoid those winnable cases. All they have to do is comply with the law.

In my state, school districts used a massive disinformation campaign to blame budget shortfalls on special ed. They even sued the state, saying that the $5000 they get on behalf of each student with an IEP was inadequate. Unfortunately for them, the state courts could see through their fairly obvious lie, since the amount is $10,000... not counting the unused safety net funding.

http://wssec.org/2009/02/special-ed-lawsuit-decision/

[madfloridian]

99. You are pitting those two groups....that is what you are doing.

I was never an adversary to my parents and students. I worked with doctors, talked with them, did observations for them.

This is going to pit them against each other far more than anyone can imagine.

I am sick to death of people here making fun of teachers and putting them down.

I ALWAYS saw the side of the kids, they were the important ones.

Yes, let's sue all the school systems. Let's fail them all under NCLB....then let the corporations like WalMart take over...they have donating over 50 million a year to charters already.

I am backing off and putting you on my ignore list. I have no patience anymore with people who put teachers down. Good by.

[cagesoulman]

105. You read Lumberjack guy wrong

He's frustrated because of his kid and the school didn't do what it should have done in his case.

[lumberjack_jeff]

108. Ah. Righteous indignation. My favorite.

I also love it when people put me on ignore, because I can shoot down their bullshit without risk. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

No one who thinks that school districts should be immune from having the law enforced in court is a friend to parents and students. Period.

Anyone who had the slightest bit of curiosity about the subject would have read the article and found that the ruling does nothing to change the law. The only thing it clarifies is that students and their parents need not put up with a substandard special ed program simply to jump through arbitrary hoops.

The inflammatory and misleading headline is the Seattle Times / PI's habit on this topic. They have long had a hard-on about the costs of special education, it comes from the top, that Blethen asshole.

[Odin2005]

96. I agree! n/t.

[jazzjunkysue]

104. Your school taxes will double or triple if this goes unchecked. You may not think it's such

a good ruling at that point.

I'd love to send my kids to private schools that cost $65K/year. Thanks for volunteering to pay for them for me.

[lumberjack_jeff]

107. Be careful what you wish for.

I guarantee, if you had a child with a disability that your local school district couldn't handle, you'd pay $65,000 to NOT have to send him or her away.

This ruling has changed nothing. Schools must still comply with the IDEA law which has been in place for three decades. The shrill fucking hyperbole does a huge disservice. I'm not going to be a supporter of teachers IF that means blaming the problems of public education on disabled students.

My nickel bet is that the parents of the kid with ADHD will be awarded reimbursement because the district did have an adequate special ed program, but thinking that they could save a buck, they refused to make it available to him.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

115. That is not what the decision said...and in CA, they can't realistically raise taxes like that

[madfloridian]

86. This and NCLB...back door ways to privatize. Heartbreaking.

[fascisthunter]

94. America... where you must have money to make money

paying for an education will increase the amount of drop outs... from there on a avalanche onto society. How stupid and selfish of those pushing this agenda... they don't give a damn about Americans or America itself. These people sold their souls for greed... pathetic.

[ProgressiveSuperhawk]

110. Easy solution is to make it illegal for public money to go to Private schools

We need to make it a federal law to stop any public money from going to private schools. If any private school takes public money, then the government should come in and run that private school, because if they take public money - then the public should tell that school how to run. Especially the Christian Taliban schools, if the christian schools take any public money, then they need to take the bible fantasy books and crosses out of the classrooms.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

114. That would force the public system to provide services it clearly can not do well if at all

High levels of Special Ed are an epic fail in most districts. Take a look at the Felix consent decree.