Checkwriters...BEWARE of businesses using Certegy.

[dkf]

To any of you who know you have more than sufficient funds to write a check, retailers using Certegy will deny you the use of your checks for reasons that are unknown to them or to you, based on some BS criteria they think shows fraud. They don't even TRY to figure out what your balance is, as this is not the basis on which your check will be denied. And this is for real. I was turned down by Home Depot because I am doing a home renovation and keep writing that damned store checks galore.

There is no way to contest it once they turn you down...they expect you to pay with credit or debit cards but you should just complain to the manager and WALK OUT.

If you call Certegy, they will tell you you should try to go back to whatever store denied you the last time because maybe it won't be triggered again. Yeah SURE! Its a complete waste of time.

Not only that, but they may blame your bank when they KNOW its their own stupid check clearing firm.

The list of business that use Certegy is really really extensive:
http://edge.networkworld.com/community/comment/reply/17351/175445

Here are some people's horror stories:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/certegy.html

I'm boycotting as many of these aholes as possible. I am pissed beyond belief.

[Horse with no Name]

1. Hmmm it sounds like they are trying to glean more info from checkwriters

so they can "certify" them as VIPS. Bunch of bullshit, this.

[dkf]

3. This is the crew that let some employee sell all their data to some

telemarketing firm.

Its a crock. I read one account where the person had their BANK of the phone verifying they had enough funds and verifying the identity and they STILL wouldn't cash the damned check.

They are forcing us to use credit and debit cards where the retailers can hold up more funds than you are trying to spend. GRRR.

[Indydem]

17. Why would they "force" you to use those???

Using a credit card costs the business money in trasaction fees and percentage fees.

Using a debit card is free to the business, but costs the bank money.

Only checks are free on both ends.

If they really wanted to screw you, they'd make everyone use a debit card and tack on a fee, or make everyone pay cash.

[Yavin4]

24. Just The Opposite

Credit and debit card transactions cost the banks pennies on the dollar. Verification of your available balance are instant. Cash and checks are far more expensive because they involve paper and cash handling which means more human labor.

[Statistical]

51. Banks charge businesses heavy fees for cashing over so many checks per month.

On top of that a check is simply a "promise to pay" and funds are not guaranteed.
Check confirmation services like the OP described cost almost as much as credit card do (on top of bank fees + bounced check fees + having to track down payment).

Most companies would love to stop accepting checks but are afraid they will lose business.
If Home Depot & Lowes & Ace could agree to all stop taking checks they would drop it in a second.

[RoyGBiv]

54. This is incorrect ...

Using a debit card is not free to the business.

The same contract that a merchant makes with Visa/Mastercard for credit cards applies to the debit card transactions with those affiliations as well. These are the debit cards most people have.

Some merchants are now set up to accept true debit cards, e.g. an ATM card, but this also may incur a cost from the approval company. It depends on the specific kind of account we're talking about.

In addition, not-so insignificant costs are incurred by banks when processing checks in various ways -- labor costs, write-offs from fraud, legal fees, etc. Merchants that use check verification systems, as is being discussed here and which almost all do now, may or may not incur a cost for check verification. It depends on the company and the level of service involved.

There is no "free" way out of this except cash, which incurs no additional cost other than the labor required to process cash payments.

All in all, checks are the worst. Most of the costs involved are secondary, but they are significant.

[sharesunited]

2. In order to transact with the merchant

you could use a credit card and immediately send a check to the credit card company. Or do you think you would find that to be objectionably inconvenient?

[Horse with no Name]

4. That bullshit

If you READ the links, the people being affected by this ARE NOT deadbeats, they are financially stable people who "Certegy" is attempting to blackmail into using their "Gold Service" (at a cost to them).
This is just another database, but it has a darker side. Called extortion. You buy a membership, we will take your fucking name off of the list.
IT.IS.BULLSHIT.
I personally would refuse to be further inconvenienced and just boycott the companies using this company who employs extortion to financially sound customers.
But I would not do so until I had written letters to the companies telling WHY I no longer shop their fucking store.

[dkf]

7. I can't comingle my funds with the trust funds and the trust has no credit cards.

Meaning I hesitate to pay myself back if I use my card. Its just cleaner that way.

[havocmom]

50. Sending a payment without accompanying statement seems risky

How does the check get credited accurately if you just rush one into the mail without waiting for statement?

[Statistical]

52. You could pay online via check draft.

Or simply write the account number on the check.

Online payments via checkdraft or by your bank (BofA "billpay") is insanely easy & fast (most payment post in 2 days).

Plus you can setup automatic payments. I have an automatic payment for my credit card that goes out 1 day after the statement arrives.
Then before the due date I pay more based on how much I have.

[Indydem]

5. They aren't picking on you...

Its based on a n algarythm designed to protect merchants and check writers alike. It checks the statistics of how often you write a check with the amount of the check and the places that the checks were written.

Unless you have a habit (over the long haul) of writing repeated large checks to HD that is what set off the fraud alert. Believe it or not, they are trying tprotect you too.

I know it seems like a major screw job on you, but its the best way to prevent fraud.

[masuki bance]

6. Exactly

This is probably why the denial happened-

"...keep writing that damned store checks galore."


Why would a business want to leave themselves exposed like that?

Use a debit card, how hard is that?

[Horse with no Name]

8. failed argument

>>>snip
I, like all the others on here, had the most humilating experience of my life in the middle of Target today! I have had a checking account for well over 15 years and NEVER have I EVER had ANY problems! While trying to purchase my items with my Target check card (which requires my pin #) and is linked directly to my checking account, my form of payment was declined.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/certegy.html#ixzz0JEKVAvOF&D

[Indydem]

14. The Target "Check Card" is not a true debit card, it is a device issued by Target...

It lets you withdraw money from your account like a virtual check, but since its not issued by a bank its subject to the same algorythm. Same as the old paper checks, just in a shiny package.

Hey, if you want to write a check, thats fine, expect to draw the ire of your fellow customers if you are accepted or declined. It is an unnecissarily long and drawn out process that has its roots in the 19th century. Get a credit or debit card and join us here in the 21st century.

[dkf]

11. I don't trust debit cards.

Never have never will.

[Indydem]

12. Well then, its your own fault you choose to live in the 19th century. n/t

[dkf]

16. Debit cards suck

http://banking.about.com/od/checkingaccounts/a/stolendebitcard.htm

How Stolen Debit Cards Affect You

By Justin Pritchard, About.com

Bank Debit Card Open a Bank Account Credit Card or Debit Card Credit Card Fraud Payments
You are protected if your debit card is used by a thief. However, you have to act fast. Compared to credit cards, stolen debit cards carry a lot of risk. This page covers the basics of stolen debit cards and your liability.

Stolen debit cards are just one risk of using debit cards. For more information on how debit cards and credit cards work, see our page on Debit vs Credit card use.

With credit cards, you’re limited to $50 of liability for fraudulent use. What’s more, the thief spent the bank’s money – he didn’t empty your checking account and cause you to bounce important checks (or rack up fees for overdraft protection).

With a stolen debit card (or a stolen debit card number and PIN), you are protected as follows (source: federalreserve.gov):

Your loss is limited to $50 if you notify the financial institution within two business days after learning of loss or theft of your card or code.

But you could lose as much as $500 if you do not tell the card issuer within two business days after learning of loss or theft.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11726422/

Even so, as long as fraudulent charges are reported within sixty days, the cardholder’s liability is capped at $500 — a rather large sum for a young adult. In the interim, the account will still be out the money.

“Also they lack the right of charge-backs, unlike credit cards,” says Fox. With a credit card, consumers can refuse to pay questionable charges, which are removed from their accounts while in dispute. With a debit card, the money is already out of the account. “It is up to the consumer to get it back — shifting the balance of power,” adds Fox, who likens debit cards to walking around with a pocket full of endorsed blank checks.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/hotels/2008-03-13-debit-cards_N.htm

Swipe that debit card carefully: Hotel holds can tie up your money

By Kitty Bean Yancey, USA TODAY
Think carefully before handing over a debit card at a hotel front desk.

After saving for a San Francisco vacation, Manhattanite Lauren Hopkins checked into the Oakland Marriott City Center in August and was asked for a card to cover incidentals she might incur, such as meals, Internet connection or minibar snacks.

Hopkins, 23, who doesn't use a credit card to avoid overspending, thought she had more than $600 in her account until her debit card was refused at a restaurant that night. It was over the limit, she says, because the hotel mistakenly billed her again for two nights' lodging even though she had prepaid for the room through an online travel agency, plus held another $300 for possible incidentals without her knowledge. Because her card is tied to her checking account, she was broke.

And consider the experience of Scott Huelskamp, editor of a trade publication for rehabilitation professionals. He checked into The Red Rock Casino Resort Spa outside Las Vegas for a conference and was asked for a card to cover what he calls "the dreaded incidentals" he wasn't going to use. He pulled out a debit card and later discovered that the hotel was holding $150 for each of the two nights he was there.

Back home in Wayne, Pa., his wife tried to use their account, leading to overdraft fees. Although the $300 was credited back, it took a few days.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/aboutus/mission/viewpoint/as-if-gas-didnt-cost-enough/overview/gas-didnt-cost-enough-ov.htm

Mary Belov and her visa card
ONE EXPENSIVE FILL-UP
Mary Alice Belov bought $10 worth of gas. It cost her a lot more in angst.
Photo by Jerome Hart
Mary Alice Belov planned to put gas in her car, then buy groceries. What she didn’t plan on was the $10 gas purchase freezing $50 of her bank account and forcing Belov, a small-business owner from Goldendale, Wash., to put items from her cart back on the shelf. Blame the all too common "debit hold."

Banks may put a hold on an account when they’ve given the green light to use the card for a purchase whose final amount is unknown. That’s exactly what happens thousands of times a day at gas pumps across the country. You swipe your debit card, the gas station asks your bank for approval, and along with saying yes, the bank may freeze up to $75 of your money for several days, no matter how little gas you buy. That debit hold can put you into the red if you don’t keep much money in your account.

[Indydem]

19. Had a Visa check debit card with Chase for 10 years.

Never had a lick of trouble. Never had funds frozen, never had a check bounce, never been disappointed.

If you want to point to isolated cases and try to hold those up as the template of normality, I can show you lots of random events that will make you want to stay inside all day and never leave your house.

So not live in fear of progress.

[dkf]

20. Pah, I fully expect to use my phone to pay bills soon.

I'm skipping debit cards.

[masuki bance]

32. How well are you protected if someone steals your checkbook? nt

[ecstatic]

42. Exactly. Cards can be replaced/charges reversed while the account remains active

When you lose your checkbook, you have to shut it ALL down and start over.

[dkf]

48. You don't even need to steal a person's card to ring up the bills on it.

My checkbook is large enough to notice if it is gone.

[Codeine]

46. My Wells Fargo card was stolen once.

My own fault -- I left it in the ATM after making a deposit one night.

When I realized a few days later I called and the nice Indian call center lady immediately killed the card, provisionally replaced my funds with the understanding that I'd be on the hook if it turned out I was lying, and launched an investigation.

No muss, no fuss, and certainly less hassle than I'd have experienced with a stolen checkbook and its accompanying 19th Century technology.

[imdjh]

18. When I see someone writing a check these days, I think "They're going to catch you."

Seriously, not to insult anyone here, but the only people I see writing checks in stores these days are the occasional old woman, and those I suspect are hoping to deposit money before the check clears.

[madeline_con]

25. I agree with the "occasional old woman" comment.

But been there done that on the other one. With the right skillz it can be pulled off.
Sometimes, people have no choice but to buy groceries that way.

[Obamanaut]

34. Frequently, when one prefaces a statement with "not to change

the subject" that is what they do. Same with "not to insult anyone."

I still write checks in stores, with sufficient funds since I opened the account in 1961. If that causes someone an undue wait of 30 - 45 seconds, bad luck got 'em. Slow down and smell the roses.

Now when people say things that are likely to offend, they will append "just sayin" in the hope that this will magically void the offense. Doesn't work.

[imdjh]

38. Present company excepted

It's a courtesy one uses to preface the truth. I apologize for being charming.

[anigbrowl]

27. Why, you think they might fo out shopping without you?

If you have no reason you can articulate, there's no reason to take you seriously. I've been using a debit card for ~15 years and have never once had a problem, other than a self-created one (like mis-remembering my account balance and incurring a fee, which could just as easily happen with a check).

[Greyhound]

31. You shouldn't.

Credit cards are limited by federal law (for the time being, but Biden is working every day to protect his constituents) to $50 liability for the user. Someone clones/steals your card you are in the clear.

There is no such protection for debit cards and you are liable for whatever is in your account.

Currently, most banks will put your money back into your account if someone steals it through your debit card, but they are not legally required to do so.

As for your home improvement project, firstly, don't buy from home depot they support our political enemies and Lowe's has far better/more knowledgeable employees (at least they do here) and just use cash? It's kind of funny to see the look on the cashier's face when you hand him a stack of hundreds to pay for your stuff.

(One of my best memories was buying a new car with cash, they probably thought I was a drug dealer or something but didn't want to screw up the sale (about $35,000) it was hilarious)

[dysfunctional press]

37. home despot is FAR superior to lowe's around here.

in fact- the lowes lack of customer service and staff stupidity in regard to their products have driven me away from their stores for good.

[dkf]

9. Except there is no way for the merchant to override this.

So I'm looking for an oven range, but Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, KMart, Best Buy etc is with these jokers.

How am I supposed to complete this damned renovation? I can't buy anything.

[ima_sinnic]

13. get a VISA debit card linked to your bank account?

so far (after 10 or 15 years of using one) I have had NO problems with a debit card.

on edit: just noticed you said above you "don't trust" debit cards. The other alternative is to figure out how much you need beforehand, go to the bank, and withdraw cash in the amount you need. Not sure what your problem is with debit cards. You could also buy one of those prepaid VISA cards they offer at (I think) convenience stores, but you will spend some amount of extra money for one.

[Horse with no Name]

15. Costco, Big Lots, Direct Buy.com, Overstock.com,

http://www.us-appliance.com/

[dkf]

21. I just checked Costco. They don't do ranges here.

And I'm in Hawaii...we just got our first Target in the past year.

[quiller4]

23. I can't imagine writing a check for the purchases you describe.

We use our American Express for significant purchases and just make an online payment to AE when we return home. That way we pay no interest and we double the warranty period on most goods.

For all other kinds of purchases, I use our Key Bank debit card. I haven't written a check to a merchant in more than 10 years.

[madeline_con]

26. The only thig I write checks for is school stuff for the kid.

Field trip $$ for instance.

[dkf]

29. Its a renovation to provide rental income to pay for a carehome.

The person in question ruined their credit by contesting purchases they couldn't remember making (Dementia).

[ima_sinnic]

10. thanks for the heads-up

I rarely write checks anymore, except to a couple of utilities that still do not have online bill-pay (I use a debit card for virtually everything), but it was disturbing to read in one account that a person's Target check card had been declined. I do have a Target credit card (not with a VISA logo) and feel like telling them to cancel it just on general principle, based on the fact that they do business with Certegy and I have decided not to patronize any business that does and therefore will no longer shop at Target.

[madeline_con]

22. Are debit cards affected by this if there is a spike in activity on them?

[dkf]

30. I don't think so.

Its my theory that they want to make everyone move to credit and debit card purchases so that they can make tons of money on transaction fees.

These retailers have no business complaining about transaction fees since they are using a provider that practically forces people not to pay by check.

[Yavin4]

28. Checks Are Cery Expensive To Banks

Check writing and verification involves manual labor whereas Debit card transactions are nothing more than data transfers over T1 lines. Debit transactions costs the banks pennies on the dollar.

[csziggy]

33. Go to your bank and have them call Certegy to find out why the check was declined

I had a check declined once because of one of the check verification companies. Went straight to my bank and a bank officer called to find out why. Some bogus info from a previous bank was on my record, it was past the date when it was supposed to be used AND there had never been corroborating paperwork filed on it. The bank officer reamed out whoever she was talking to at the company for allowing that bad claim to be used to mess up my credit record and that was that.

But I never returned to the store where the check was declined.

[dkf]

35. I went to my bank and there was nothing wrong with the account.

The request never even showed up at my bank. It got declined purely from the Home Depot side.

[csziggy]

40. But can you get a bank officer to call the company that denied the check?

I know there is nothing wrong with your account, but if the check approval company has incorrect info in their file on you, that can come back and bite you more in the future. And that is what I mean - have a bank officer call and find out WHY the check was denied.

I am not sure if you have the same rights with these companies as you do with credit checking companies - to get a copy of your file if they deny approval. But it is worth finding out if you can get a copy to see what is going on.

And if it is just that you have been writing a lot of checks to Home Depot, then HD needs to get their accounts examined - how else are home owners and small contractors supposed to get what they need to do work without writing checks? I guess they may want you to open a credit account with them so they can charge you interest, but that would be the end of my relationship with HD.

[dkf]

44. They don't get information on balances etc, they use a program and

artificial intelligence to guess at what checks could be fraudulent. And no one at HD or at this freaking company can tell you why because they don't know either. Its a proprietary formula, and they'll tell you to try the next day because whatever triggered it may be over.

[dysfunctional press]

36. two words: debit card.

i haven't written a check in years. i hate carrying a checkbook, because it doesn't fit in a pocket the way a wallet does.

[MicaelS]

39. There's a reason so many businesses don't take checks

It's called fraud. If I ran a business I would not accept checks, period. Debit cards are easily available, and have a very low cost (many times they are free). Coupled with online payment capability for almost every bill, there are few reasons for anyone NOT to have a Visa or Mastercard debit / check card. I write exactly ONE single check every month and that is for rent. I hate having to do that. If my apartment complex took Visa, I wouldn't write that one.

[konnichi wa]

41. I've used my Chase debit card for 99+% of all spending for over 7 years and have never paid one cent

in fees, charges or penalties. I do write the occasional check which costs me zero as well. I do think direct deposit is a requirement for this free account, though..which is what I have.

[Codeine]

47. Exactly.

I write one check a month to my landlord and that's it. Everything else is debit and is totally free and painless.

[Codeine]

45. Our store stopped accepting checks last October

because we were losing a few hundred every month to fraudulent check activity. It's simply too easy to make fake checks now.

The weird Luddite urge some folks have mystifies me -- debit cards are faster, post quickly to your account, and are almost-universally accepted.

[MicaelS]

49. "The weird Luddite urge some folks have mystifies me"

Agree totally. Especially among progressives and other people who claim they are "proud members of the reality based community", people who pride themsleves upon being better educated and more intelligent than those on the other side of the political spectrum.

[tammywammy]

53. And it's a PITA to collect on bounced checks

Eventually, they get sent to the DAs office for prosecution, but we're still out the money.

[Codeine]

56. Even court-ordered restitution never amounts to anything

because so many of these people are outside of the normal economy.

Checks are just stupid in an electronic age.

[tammywammy]

57. We get less than 15 a day from regular people

The rest are business checks and those aren't a problem, nor the checks for a down-payment on a vehicle, it's just the few checks we get from parts & service that are the PITA.

Actually the last check I turned over, she might do time, it was for over $4000.

[jmowreader]

43. If it makes you feel any better, the store employees don't like Certegy either

If I was doing a home renovation, what I would do is to open a bank account that offers free money orders, Next, open a Home Depot Credit Card account. (There are three kinds--consumer and commercial, which are revolving accounts, and PROX, which must be paid in full every month. You could probably qualify for any of them.) Make your purchases using the card, then go to the customer service desk and get an account balance--there is a function that allows them to do this. The next day, go to the bank, get a free money order in the amount of your balance, and take it to Home Depot. A LOT of people do it, and the company really doesn't mind if you do.

[bertman]

55. Thanks for the alert, dkf.