DU has seldom been wrong about the big issues since 2001...

[kentuck]

Granted, a lot of us voted for John Edwards and supported him on DU, but the majority of support always went to Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, with the edge perhaps to Obama, perhaps?

But from its inception, DU was right about the invasion of Iraq. It was wrong. It was criminal. George W Bush, even when his popularity and his war were about 90% approval with the rest of America, the "ten percenters" at DU were telling the truth about Bush and Cheney. They were wrong. They were criminal.

Now, I wonder if the majority of DUers think Obama is going in the right direction? It's hard to determine at this time. Many folks think he could do a lot more than he is doing.

Is Obama really wrong about the banks? About the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? About the economy? About the bailouts? About the automobile companies? About gays? Or are most folks here just armchair quarterbacks?

Will DU be right about Barack Obama? Or will he and we miss an opportunity for change that will never come around again in our lifetimes? Is he that bold? Should he be?

[ananda]

1. Going corporate..

.. is always the wrong direction.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Good questions, all...

I don't pretend to know any of the answers.

I hope he does.

K&R

[tom_paine]

4. What you said, Peggy.

:hi:

I must confess though, the early indications are not good.

[LiberalArkie]

3. I feel that he just told us what we wanted to hear to get the votes.

Just another of those conservatives.

[snot]

5. sounds like poll-fodder.

[flvegan]

6. IIRC, Kucinich was DUs favorite in the primaries.

Maybe unrealistic, but he was always the runaway in any poll or even the big fundraiser. I truly think that DU has a big number of really progressive members, and that's why it sometimes appears that DU is "critical" of Obama. I think a lot of us really want better than it appears we may be getting. I think that some of his decisions have been terrible (particularly the wars and GLBT issues), but I didn't expect any different in those cases. I don't know why he may have made them, as I'm not sitting in that very big chair.

DU is pretty good about being right on the big issues, I think.

I try to keep in mind that maybe Obama is like the Captain of an aircraft carrier, and he's turning us around slowly. But, I've been accused of being a dreamer in the past.

[kentuck]

8. Dennis has always been very popular here.

I agree.

[timeforpeace]

7. Are you suggesting that ideology has something to do with our opinions on these issues?

Like, as you say, Bush's war was criminal but now that he's gone it's not? Are you suggesting hypocrisy?

[kentuck]

9. What do you think?

Do you think it is hypocrisy? Or is it not possible to withdraw from those countries at this time? Or is it just a matter of will power?

[Uzybone]

10. Depends on who you think DU is

many here were sure we would have martial law declared in October 2008, right after Bush invaded Iran.

[Psychic Consortium]

11. Many have underestimated the difficulty Obama faces every day.

And do not understand Obama's style.

The political waters are treacherous for him.
He must operate a great deal under the radar for safety's sake.

And he does not make splashy meaningless gestures like most politicians.
He builds lasting change brick by brick. And does
not need to take credit for it. The pieces will all fit
together fairly soon.

The changes he makes will last far into the future.

He will be one of America's greatest presidents.
He will keep his promises.
But he will do it his way and on his time line.

[Justitia]

12. I voted for his judgment & it still feels right to me. You either trust him or you don't.

I trust him & his judgment.

[Psychic Consortium]

13. You are correct. He will not disappoint you.

[Laelth]

14. Conservatives are ALWAYS wrong. Liberals are ALMOST always right.

This should come as no surprise.

But the fact that liberals have been "right" about a lot of issues has not prevented the country from embracing and pursuing disaster, and the current political climate gives me little hope that real progress can be made at this time.

Obama is doing the best he can, but it doesn't look like it will be enough.

:dem:

-Laelth

[sandnsea]

15. 9/11 is an inside job

Bush will never leave the White House
Iran will be invaded in June 2007 (or whatever date it was)
There is going to be martial law
They are preparing Katrina FEMA Detainment Camps
The tsunami was caused by bombs

It's easy to pretend you're always right when you ignore the times you were wrong. That's a generic you, not you personally.

[kentuck]

17. I don't believe any of the points made above was a majority opinion on DU?

I could be wrong.

[sandnsea]

21. Neither was Iraq

But now everybody is a savant and all those people running around worried about them finding the WMD have strangely disappeared never to be heard from again. And I don't mean tombstoned like Carlos either.

[kentuck]

22. You don't think the opposition to the war in Iraq was a majority opinion?

on DU?

I don't know if I agree with that?

[sandnsea]

33. It was more mixed

There were a lot of people who were uncertain about the invasion, some are still here. But those who "knew" there were no WMD were not in the majority, although everybody claims to have "known" now. The self-delusion cracks me up.

[girl gone mad]

30. The majority on DU were against the invasion,

just like the majority of Americans were.

[Stevepol]

44. Exactly, and the oppposition was a lot greater on DU than for Americans as a whole.

[Cheap_Trick]

38. Those who know that 9/11 was an inside job haven't been proven wrong yet.

Unless of course you actually believe the "9/11 Commission". :rofl:

You know, the one that was headed by a Bush cronie.

"Inside job" doesn't necessarily mean that they blew up the towers themselves, but that they had foreknowledge and allowed it to happen to bring about the "new Pearl Harbor" that PNAC so desperately wanted.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

41. I can has Fitzmas?

[omega minimo]

16. Was DU right about Impeachment?

That was the big gamble -- trade in the Constitution and accountability and the rule of law for the White House and Congress.

Here we are.

The system is compromised, the process is compromised, the Congress is compromised, the President is compromised.

[omega minimo]

29. Well?.............. ................ Anyone have an opinion on that or are we all "looking forward"?

:hi:

[asjr]

18. We were put in the trash heap almost

right away when Bush took office. Obama will not clean it up overnight. I feel he is working a little bit undercover. I am very happy he is our president and I am willing to work with him and give him time. Barack Obama is a real person--not the cardboard cutout Bush was. Besides as far as I can tell our worst enemy the MEDIA is not helping him one bit. I am sick of seeing and hearing the over the hill gang of Graham, Lieberman, Thompson and Gingrich. The media only put them on so they can piss and moan about Obama not doing the right thing.

[Turbineguy]

19. I think in the end it's what he can accomplish that counts

I would prefer him not tilting at windmills. For the most part the job is to change the direction of the country and that will yield results. And I think the direction is changing for the better. The shrillness of the rightwing if nothing else attests to that.

[CTyankee]

20. You know something? I've been right since the Vietnam War!

In a way, I am sick and tired of always being right when, years later and the damage is done and cannot be undone, the rest of America wakes up to find surpise! the liberals were right all along!

We are reduced to being armchair qb's because we've marched, phoned, written, campaigned, voted. And every time we think we finally nailed it, we get the football snatched away at the last minute and there we are lying on the ground wondering what happened.

ASAIC, congress can save the damn money for health care reform and do nothing. Just let the whole thing go to hell. The people have spoken but they are not being heard. If they still can't get anything to happen, then maybe they and all of us just deserved what we've got.

I'm so pissed off right now I can't see straight...

[kentuck]

23. Are you pissed off at Obama or the Congress..?

Or both?

[CTyankee]

32. Right now, it's mostly Congress. I don't know about Obama. What was he thinking?

I wish I knew. He certainly had been in the Senate so he knew the territory. What made him think he could change it?

OK, I'm willing to psych myself up and say he's playing 3D chess and knows all the moves and is 3 steps ahead of everybody else. I comfort my self with that thought...I just don't want to be flat on my back on the ground again with the football taken away...

[Oregone]

24. Were DUers right, or just anti-Bush?

(which worked out)

And now pro-Obama?

DU isn't a homogeneous group though, mind you.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

25. I wasn't aware that my membership here required me to subscribe to your newsletter. N/T

[kentuck]

26. What newsletter?? This is a discussion group.

Do you not like this topic? You don't have to answer, you know?

[Cleita]

27. I supported Kucinich first and Edwards next.

Both were railroaded by the corporate lobbyists who own us. Being right hasn't changed much though. I am all for Obama having a successful Presidency if for no other reason than it is a pleasure to see him and his family in the news instead of the stumbling drunk and the botox queen who didn't want anything to do with being a First Lady. It's really nice to see genuine family values.

[girl gone mad]

28. Yes, he's wrong about the banks.

He's put all of our eggs into one basket and handed it over to the banksters, who have proceeded to make themselves eggs benedict with caviar while the rest of us starve.

[Maeve]

31. Majority? Interesting question...

Since today's DU isn't the same as yesterdays DU and isn't the same as 2005's DU...etc.

Obama is playing a long game, as near as I can figure. He's turning some things over to the courts (as they should be decided, constitutionally) and some things to the Congress (ditto previous aside) and holding his best cards for major issues (which may or may not be the 'major issues' for some of DU).

I don't always agree with him, but...and it pains me to say this, but...I think he has a better handle on all this than I do. Until he goes totally and completely off the scale, he's the one I'll trust to get us out of the f'ing mess Dubya left burning on the porch.

[bridgit]

34. Look, search the archive, I have counseled questions, balance, image-viability...

But I am no one, and that's fine, still...

So much time spent in university gymnasiums months on end it seemed amidst smiley, fluttering white teethed pom-poms and back flipping mascots to the tune of shutting down war :eyes: and reallocating funding to student grants & tuitions Whoa Nelly!! Talk about a captive, receptive audience and the crowd went mother fucking wild! - but I'm cool, it's all good. Were there any questions that really should have been asked? Or is it more the case that like comedy, at least sometimes certainly in some cases...

Change isn't pretty either x(

[UpInArms]

35. unfortunately, I feel we got change

we can't believe in

:(

[xiamiam]

36. I've been around here awhile.i love obama but its not looking good imo

goldman sachs making record profits news today, bankers getting bigger bonuses, millions more foreclosures..THIS is todays news...i'm disappointed..the photo ops are great.he's smart with a sense of humor .michelle is an extraordinary woman, foreign relations are on the right track...much is very very good..geithner, summers, health care reform,war crimes, not so much...
i am seriously affected by this mess...busted boomer...whaddya do?...adapt and hang on, because NOTHING has been pushed forward by this administration to effectively help..people like me for example, middle class seniors on the edge of bankruptcy and who knows what else looms in front of us...i had hoped for more, still have hope that he is playing a game of chess and will pull out the old ali razzle dazzle...but i fear that he cant with all of the goldman sachs players hovering about with their bloodshot eyes, scaly skin and other reptilian ways...there are way too many crimes left unchecked...this entire wall street fiasco to begin with not to mention iraq...
maybe he'll just be what we've seen so far...in many ways, that's good enough...the mess we're in, however, requires a bit of a robin hood type hooligan where wall street is concerned, a rebel, a visionary, fearless, determined, uncompromising...

i'm afraid, we didnt get that person as our president..

[dem mba]

37. I've noticed that DU is right more than its wrong

as a whole on a variety of foreign and domestic issues. Of course, it would be foolish to think we're right all the time. Hell, I got into huge fights with people on here (under a diff screen name) about whether or not Obama could win the election. And they were obviously wrong, so I guess it depends on what we're talking about here.

The fact is now that Obama is in power he will have to face certain political realities, and I think most of us are recoiling at that already. There are progressive ideals and there are progressive policies, and its very rare for the ideals to be the policies. Should we be mad? Should we demand Obama deliver more? Sure. But it's important to understand the difference between being the opposition (Dems from 2000-2006 or 2008 really) and the majority governing power.

What would happen if we ran roughshod over the Republicans right now? Probably very little. However, their coalition would build back up over time as different elements of our society seethed in hatred against libs, progressives and our ilk. If we govern in the center, it is very possible to snatch moderates, libertarians and even unregistered voters into our party and keep them there. It's not sexy and it's painful to witness more often than not, but this appears to be Obama's strategy. Progressive policies then seep into society by executive and legislative channels until we finally have a consensus center-LEFT society in this country. It will take time. But I think we're more likely to have liberal policies dominate over the long-term if we "play nice" than if we steamroll them the way Bush did to us.

[ohheckyeah]

39. I think at this point the biggest mistake

Obama might be making is in believing he can get bipartisanship from the Republicans....not going to happen.

I think we are at a unique point in time that is ripe for the changes we would like to see like gay marriage, marijuana legalization and health care reform. I wish the Democrats would strike while the iron is hot.

[dorkulon]

40. It's easy to be right when you're not in power.

Now that they're out of power, Republicans are back to preaching the clean economic lines of libertarian conservatism, forgetting about their years in power, where their principles were nowhere to be found.

I see the same phenomenon at work with Dems. We had all the answers--accountability for war crimes, an end to war, stricter regulation, civil rights and health care for all.

Now we're in charge...

[elmaji]

42. If we were always right

Kerry wouldn't have lost in '04

[kentuck]

43. "seldom wrong" does not equal "always right".

Furthermore, being right does not mean everything always goes in your favor. Bush and Cheney were just as wrong after the election as they were before the election.