Saw 'Food, Inc.' yesterday. It's extremely scary, sad, nauseating, and anger-inducing.

[AllieB]

'Food, Inc.' is a documentary that addresses the huge, corporate-run food industry and how the food industry has become the purveyors of cheap food that not only lacks nutrition, but is also quite literally killing Americans.

The film is not for the squeamish, as it shows quite luridly the horrors of factory farming, where both the animals and the workers are quite literally tortured. :cry: Just as nauseating is bullshit spewed by giant conglomerates like Cargill, ADM, Tyson, ConAgra, etc. to fight labeling efforts by consumer groups so we know the origins of their food products (China? Mexico?) and whether they have been irradiated or genetically modified. The ugly facts of animal mistreatment, food contamination (e.coli,salmonella), worker abuse, and lack of federal regulation are hidden by the secretive food industry. These conglomerates use intimidation and an army of lawyers to fight consumers, hide inhumane practices toward both the animals and the workers, and abuse the farmers that don't comply with their demands.

As if you didn't already know that Monsanto was evil, a segment of the film depicts how Monsanto extorts small soybean farmers through using a patent on its GMO seeds to stop the practice of seed cleaning, in order to re-use seeds for next years' planting. About 95% of non-GMO soybean fields are contaminated with Monsanto's GMO seeds, and they send 'agents' out under the cover of night to 'investigate' whether these farmers are cleaning Monsanto seeds seeds and thus 'violating' their intellectual property. This segment is positively Orwellian.

Also disturbing was a sequence where a meat processing company, in order to cut down on E.coli in their products, mixed their ground meat with ammonia to kill the bacteria. And they don't have to label it. :wtf: The problem also lies in that all the meat in our country is processed in a handful of plants, where as 50 years ago, our meat came from thousands of processing plants. Fruit and vegetable plants are similarly centralized, hence the number of food-borne illnesses in things like packaged spinach.

The food industry is not only killing Americans through food-borne illnesses, but also through the ubiquitousness of corn and other engineered "foods" that literally cause a variety of diseases of civilization like diabetes. The film shows a Latino family eating McDonald's food, where the family of four could eat for roughly $11. Later we see them shopping in a grocery store and how much of their already strapped budget would be allocated toward food if they tried to eat healthily. Food is a class issue also, as the father of the family already suffers from diabetes, and we see the teenage daughter in a support group of children of families with sick parents, and almost all the children know at least one diabetic. As much as Walmart is hated, they are yielding to customer demands by carrying organics like Stonyfield Farms at a more affordable price than traditional grocery stores.

There is also an interview with Barbara Kowalcyk, who lost her 2 1/2 year old son Kevin in 12 days to a virulent form of e.coli after eating a hamburger on vacation. She is hoping to get a response from the food industry, which cannot be sued under the law in farming states.

The best segment showed Joel Salatin, an organic farmer in the Shenandoah Valley, who uses old fashioned methods of raising cattle, pigs, and chickens. All his animals are free-range, and his cattle eat grass and fertilize it. This was the natural cycle of farming for thousands of years, and our food industry is working to destroy it. Feeding cattle corn has led to infection and disease. And what does the food industry do in response? They add more chemicals, instead of reverting to traditional farming methods. Joel Salatin's comments during the course of the film are the most interesting, and are the direction that many conscientous farmers are heading in. His farm can be found here:

http://www.polyfacefarms.com/

The film ends optimisitically by noting that consumers brought down the once-mighty tobacco industry, and that the same principles can be used against the food industry. The message is to eat locally if possible, to eat seasonally, and to know where your food came from. Patronize local farms if possible. The problem is for many Americans, is that eating this way is prohibitively expensive. Until the food industry is properly regulated and consumer voices become louder, this cheap "food" will continue to kill us through disease and food-borne illnesses.

[Warpy]

1. Cooking real food can be very simple

unless one feels compelled to duplicate restaurant recipes that take a kitchen staff to produce, each sous chef responsible for a different component of each course.

Today mine will be some prawns bought on sale, olive oil, garlic, basil and pasta, lettuce on the side. The whole thing will take less than 20 minutes to prepare, including peeling the prawns.

It would take nearly that long to take something out of the box, pierce the film, and nuke it. Mine will also taste like prawns and garlic, not salt.

There is no reason to eat corporate garbage, in other words.

[AllieB]

2. Do you know where those prawns came from? Factory farm or China?

There have been incidents of contamination with shrimp that has come from China. Also, there was a bit in the movie about how farm-raised fish is fed corn, which may lead to strains of bacteria and food-borne illness.

The Latino family shown in the movie leave home at 6 AM and get home at 8-9 PM. Some people don't have the luxury to cook a meal and rely upon packaged, processed crap. The true issue is making the food industry accountable and regulate the hell out of it.

[Warpy]

8. Aquaculture in the US

I asked.

[hlthe2b]

22. Aquaculture (farm raised prawns) are also areas for concern...

Public Citizen has a report:
Chemical Cocktail:
The Health Impacts of Eating Farm-Raised Shrimp

A special report by Public Citizen’s Food Program


http://www.citizen.org/cmep/foodsafety/shrimp/articles.cfm?ID=12706
A primary concern for people who eat farmed shrimp, particularly those who consume substantial quantities over a long period of time, is the usage of a range of antibiotics to prevent and treat bacterial conditions common in shrimp farms. Chemical agents are used in aquaculture ponds as water and soil treatment compounds in order to control viral, bacterial, fungal and other pathogens; to induce plankton growth (fertilizers and minerals); and to inoculate the farmed shrimp larvae. These chemicals include the following: therapeutants (antibiotics), various algaecides and pesticides, disinfectants, detergents and other water and soil treatment chemicals. All of these are used in vast quantities by the aquaculture industry globally.<1>

For decades, various diseases have devastated the shrimp industry throughout the producing nations by wiping out entire crops. One of the most damaging is the White Spot Syndrome Virus (WSSV), which has been the most widespread, causing high mortality rates in many shrimp species and other crustaceans.<2> Symptoms of WSSV include white spots on the body of the shrimp as well as a steady decomposition of the body, which can occur in as little as 10 days, making the crop unmarketable and causing economic set-backs. Unregulated processing, use, and disposal of infected imported shrimp; or, the use of contaminated larvae in farming have caused the rapid spread of WSSV from its endemic regions to wild and cultured stocks of shrimp throughout the world.<3> The WSSV can even survive freezing and consequently survives in previously-frozen farmed shrimp sold in the market. The results of an investigation of shrimp sold in supermarkets in Boston published in January 2002 provided preliminary evidence that an appreciable proportion (4.7%) of the marketed shrimp were carrying WSSV.<4> The scientists concluded that the virus can spread to the local natural environment, which constitutes a substantial risk. As of yet, there has not been any evidence that there is a human variant of WSSV. The potential impact on public health requires further investigation.

In efforts to protect their shrimp from the effects of WSSV and other pathogens, shrimp farmers worldwide turn to the chemical and pharmaceutical industries, although it is nearly impossible to control WSSV other than by destroying the entire infected crop.<5> There are relatively few constraints on chemical usage in aquaculture in the countries where shrimp is farmed and many antibiotics are widely available from chemical and pharmaceutical suppliers. The U.S. is comparatively strict in this respect, limiting the use of antibiotics in aquaculture to three drugs: oxytetracycline, sulfamerazine, and a drug combination containing sulfadimethozine and ormetoprim.

A host of antibiotics are widely used in aquaculture to stimulate growth and to reduce the incidence and effects of diseases caused by crowded, factory-farm conditions, not unlike the conditions found in chicken factories where antibiotics are also prevalent. (See Chart 2) The more antibiotics used, however, the more rapidly bacterial resistance develops, and this problem is reaching crisis proportions today. When such resistance develops, bacterial growth is no longer stopped by the antibiotic, and thus the antibiotic is no longer capable of treating or curing the disease. Increasingly more bacteria are becoming resistant not only to one, but many antibiotics, making it more difficult to combat bacteria that cause illnesses in humans.

more at link....(up top)

[AllieB]

27. A couple of years ago Trader Joes pulled some shrimp from distribution

due to contamination.

[Warpy]

42. I wouldn't eat them three times a day

seven days a week, although I do love them. This is just a rare treat.

Most of my food is vegetarian. Not only am I a cheapskate, I really don't enjoy meat of any type and prefer to eat only small amounts of fish.

Nothing in life is totally safe.

On edit: one way to improve your odds is to cook your food properly. Tartare, carpaccio, sashimi, and ceviche are all off the menu for me.

[hlthe2b]

53. Yup... all things in moderation...

;)

[Lucky Luciano]

127. So sad! I do eat a lot of sushi, sashimi, tartare, carpaccio, and ceviche!

Life just is not as good otherwise! My Japanese girlfriend would probably break up with me if I took that stuff of of the menu! haha...fine by me, that food is exquisite!

[glowing]

49. Not only that, they are an environmental degredation..

[Grinchie]

106. Aquaculture is not the same thing as what is presented in Glossy Brochures.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/sep/21/fooddrinks.food

The above link is not the original one I found in 2005, where it revealed that aqauculture in many cases run the ocen through a seive, collecting every species of fish to feed to the predator fish in the pens, thus causing wider destruction of normally untouched fish species.

High density farming of anything is dangerous and unhealthy, but since most people think a fish is a fish is a fish, the industry can keep marketing this toxic slop at will.

We are in a terrible mess regarding the industrialized food supply, as it promotes Quantity, not Quality. Unfortunately, the Quantity is managed by reducing the variety of crops to only those that Ship well, have a moderately positive appearance of "Food", and store for years on the Supermarket shelves.

Gone are the days of the Peach that was so delicious your eyes would tear up from the heavenly flavor, because they couldn't handle a trip to market of 20 miles without bruising like a newborn baby rolling down a set of stairs.

[kegler14]

130. I get some pretty darned good local peaches in season. Many varieties.

[create.peace]

136. local or not, peaches are not recommended if they are not grown without pesticides nt

[kegler14]

169. I eat 'em anyway.

[AllieB]

170. There are fruit and vegetable washes that can help get rid of the toxins

or you can use one part bleach to 10 parts water.

[create.peace]

181. sorry, i disagree, peaches are one of the worst to eat if the are not

organically grown, or at least without pesticides. bleach doesn't get rid of pesticides.
http://www.foodnews.org/methodology.php
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/DS.jsp?sk=5004#TopChems

[get the red out]

11. Regulate! Good idea.

Everyone doesn't have the luxury of constant label reading and looking up information online and in the library. I have done a lot of this but I can tell you it takes time. I am lucky, I don't have to work two jobs or anything and am a voracious reader.

We shouldn't be forced to choose between regulating our own purchases for safety on our own or being at risk. What in the hell is the FDA for if not this job. We are paying them through our tax dollars and guaranteeing a safe food supply with proper regulation is the least they could do in my opinion. I am tired of Monsanto running the show. We are the ones paying the FDA, I wish politicians would realize this. But I am sure Monsanto has deep pockets.

[bvar22]

30. The problem with that is "Free Trade"....

....brought to you by The "Democrats". ANY attempts to provide ANY oversight is decried as "regulation".
It has become impossible to determine HOW and under what conditions imported agricultural products were grown in their home countries. How will we enforce "labeling" and "inspection" in Guatemala or China? You will NEVER know if that head of lettuce you put in you salad tonight was grown in a Mexican Sewer full of Heavy Metals and other toxic waste.

You can't even trust Farmers Markets.
Some Small scale farmers use MORE pesticides and herbicides than Commercial Farms, especially if their crop is threatened....AND they will tell you to you face that,"Oh yes. My stuff is completely "organic". There is NO oversight....nobody to keep them honest.

The only way to KNOW for sure is to grow your own.

[get the red out]

81. It would be nice if we all had space for that

But we don't.

I think we need to start calling for regulation. Fuck 'em.

[AllieB]

83. I heard that there was a bill in the House regarding being able to trace food

to its source. I can't remember where I read it-probably on DU.

[femrap]

142. I've read something about an

Ag Bill (and it might be the same one you are referring to). But it has such stiff requirements that the small farmer won't be able to sell at Farmer's Markets.

It will outlaw the Farmer's Markets basically. It's one of those 1984 Bills...War is Peace.

I hate Big Food. I hate Big Pharma. I hate Corporations. But I love informed people.

[Grinchie]

107. Exactly...

However, there are things that people just don't count on when growing crops.

I recently came across Dr. Weston Price's wonderful book on "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration", written in the late thrities.

Looking at his enormous volume of research regarding the horrible nutrition imposed upon Industrialized societies, I found it interesting to see his thoughts on the epidemic of Soil Depletion that was already apparent in the 30's.

So, how did the Green Revolution fix this problem? How does one replace the NPK of the soil that has had all the nutrients extratced by crop after crop which is then shipped to the four corners of the globe, consumesd, and then flushed down a toilet, never to be seen in the soils again?

Even if you wanted to replace the original nutrient content of the soil, you would kill all the plants, because of the way it was deposited and broken down over the millenium.

If you want to see how badly man has squandered nature, just look up Potash on Wiki, and read how we burned whole forests down so we could get enough fertilizer for a few crops of food.

I am an organic farmer, but the depletion thing never came across mind traine of thought before, because I always give so much back to the earth in the form of Cover crops, mulch and compost. How does one deal with land that is functionally depleted without spending a fortune on inputs, or waiting a half a century for the secondary growth to bring up deeper nutrient to the topsoil?

All of this leads me to beleive that the nutrition we see on labels and ingredient lists is a sham. Not only are they highly variable, but the USDA and the FDA promote the idea that all fruits and vegetables are the same. They do this with GMO primarily because they already do it with regualr varieties grown under wide conditions.

We are being starved to death with very good looking vegetables and fruits that have little of the original nutritional components they once had. Instead, they are organic versions of Wax Fruit, they endure thousand mile transport links, and then sit in the market for weeks without rotting.

I highly recomend reading Weston A Price's book. It is a throwback to an Era before the Corporation hijacked science and people actually did what they licked.

[AllieB]

150. Weston Price is vilified around here, mainly by vegetarians.

I have read articles by him and the folks that run his foundation. The corporatization of health information began in earnest with the flawed analysis of a study by Ancel Keyes, where he cherrypicked data to show the role of cholesterol and animal fat in heart disease.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4

Thank you for farming organically. :-)

[hlthe2b]

14. Exactly.. the poor have to work the longest, & most jobs, commute

the furthest, often unable to open a checking account and have to waste resources (and time) using predatory check cashing services..... With all respect to Warpy (whose comments are often right for the majority of the middle class) her post likewise shows our naivete' towards the plight of the truly poor whose survival depends on these unhealthy systems....

[malaise]

41. I'll never understand that

We buy fresh fish every Saturday - clean and season it, put it in bags ready for cooking - takes 15 minutes to steam or 20 minutes to bake. We cut up vegetables when we buy them and organize them. On Sundays we cook a big pot of rice and peas, eat some and parcel and freeze the rest for meals during the week. We also freeze the left over beans for other meals. Some days we make chicken chili and we simply take the meat out of the freezer and leave it in the fridge until we get home. That takes 10 minutes to thaw in the frying pan. Then we add our frozen beans and season. We boil water in our kettle and add to brown rice which then cooks in 10 minutes.

I think it's more about organization that simply saying people don't have the luxury to cook a meal.

[unpossibles]

102. I agree, although last time I tried to make that point I got flamed hard

It really helps to make extra and eat leftovers on the busy days, and to organize and prep foods as you state.

And while I get that the cost of a dollar menu may seem cheaper than the raw ingredients, the difference is that the raw ingredients will typically provide many more servings than just one.

[imdjh]

135. Processed food is expensive, and thus is the "luxury".

Look at what the Vietnamese Americans eat- the fairly recent arrivals. Every time I see them eating, it's a bowl of vegetables and a pile of rice. Rice takes no effort and only 20 minutes to make if you have a rice cooker. If you are poor, you should have a rice cooker (I do). The vegetables are chopped up and boiled in stock and everything is done.

[Pacifist Patriot]

158. Are you making that pasta from scratch or is it coming prepared in a box?

[Psychic Consortium]

3. We live in a toxic soup created by corrupt corporations and politicians....

that will all change as we move into the 21st century
led by Obama.

Clean air, food, water.
Health care, education, rights.
The foundations of an advanced civilization.

[femrap]

143. Our oceans are past

redemption. This issue will erupt soon.

And the only thing being led is Obama's nose by the Extremely Wealthy Elite.

Mother Nature will have the final say....and she is PISSED.

[Psychic Consortium]

147. Obama will never ever be any one's dancing bear.

He is currently giving the corrupt enough rope to hang themselves.

[femrap]

149. Now that is great

Rationalization. It's about as good as 'Dems are keeping their powder dry.' Remember that one?

You did see that Goldman Sachs reported HISTORIC PROFITS today, didn't you? No wonder, We, The People gave them billions.

Wall Street put him in office. He's returning the favor. That's how America works now.

[Psychic Consortium]

155. no. Obama works for us. You will see. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

171. LOL!

:silly:

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

4. K&R

I'm soooooooooo glad I listened to Grandpa while working in his garden past few years. I learned a lot of great tips!

Also the food taste so much better than store grown.

[Richard D]

5. In some cases organic isn't all that great . . .

. . if the only difference in the factory farming techniques being the substitution of organic feed for non-organic feed, well, it's a little bit better but not really good enough. Some of the organic milks fall into this category. Of course it's better than products from animals given antibiotics and hormones and fed GM crap, but the best is to revert back to the way it was done prior to the factorization of animals. California has one such dairy - Organic Pastures. All the cows are grass fed. They are so into not stressing the cows out that the owners had a mobile milking truck made so that the cows can be milked in the pastures. Since it's a raw product, their standards of cleanliness and safety are far far greater than those of factory dairies. The difference in the taste and feel of the milk in the body is huge. Of course it's more expensive, but it's way worth it. I'd rather have one glass of their milk a day than a quart of factory milk.

[AllieB]

10. I use local suppliers for eggs, milk, cheese, meat.

I occasionally by Organic Valley (coop of small dairy farmers from WI) at Whole Paycheck when they don't have my local Massachusetts cream in stock. There are some big organic dairy suppliers like Dean Foods (they own Horizon) that have been accused skirting the organic certification rule.I always try to buy local, even though it's more expensive.

[catchnrelease]

36. Thank goodness for OP

I've been drinking Organic Pastures' milk for about 5 years now and as you say, it tastes great. It's the only milk I can drink anymore.

I've read that some of the large scale "organic" dairies like Horizon can have a little as 2% of their cows on organic feeds, and yet call all of their product organic. I haven't done the research yet to see if that's true, but I'm sticking with Organic Pastures anyway.

[Javaman]

139. Raw milk is much better...

My wife and I have been drinking it for about a year now with zero ill side effects. In fact my cholesterol is still really low (hasn't changed), low blood pressure and no heart problems contrary to popular belief.

I was lactose intolerant before drinking the raw stuff. The raw milk gives me no problems what so ever. And tastes unbelievably delicious.

The "organic" milk is just a fancy name for milk that goes through the same process as the mass produced stuff, but it is certified organic because the cows are grass fed.

If you can find a raw milk producer in your area, I would highly suggest it.

[imdjh]

145. I want to know why Boca Burger is $5.80 per pound and hamburger is $1.99 to $4.29 per lb.

Remember when fast food places were adding soy to burgers and got criticized for using "fillers"? Obviously, soy was cheaper than beef back then. So why is it more expensive now?

[get the red out]

6. I want to see this

I have read so many books on the subject, like "Omnivore's Dilemma" and "Fast Food Nation" over the years that I seriously doubt any of this will surprise me. I finally had to stop reading articles about Monsanto's tactics because I was becoming so angry. If there is a corporation on this planet that should cease to exist and it's leadership prosecuted, it is Monsanto.

It is sad that there is the perception in our country that to eat healthy is to be wasteful and extravagant (I am not wading into the debate over whether eating healthy is more expensive than not, I accidentally derailed an entire discussion by stating an opinion on that one time).

It is definitely a class thing. And a cultural one. I have had someone look at me with total disgust when they found out I shopped at the local food co-op; she said that was simply too expensive! And I have to admit that a white flour and off-brand lunch meat shopping list would be less expensive than my list.

This movie needs to be promoted in a major way. A lot of people have no idea what they are eating. Once I found out, I was changed forever.

[Merlot]

16. "white flour and off-brand lunch meat" will not be cheaper in the long run

when the white flour causes weight gain, the sodium and preservatives in the meat cause high blood pressure and headaches. Pharmas got lotsa nice expensive pills for the ills.

I don't do the organic/whole food/coop route either but I still manage to buy food that is fresh, hopefully not growen in mexico, has no refined sugar, and not processed. There is a middle ground between crappy processed foods and high-end organic. That person who looked at you with "total disgust" probably has never ser foot inside a coop. Steping outside the comfort zone and thinking for yourself is a tought thing for some people.

[create.peace]

28. most coops have a list of foods they keep at the lowest price they can

we called them commodities and you could feed your family well just using them.

[get the red out]

84. Oh no, not cheaper

The way health care costs run, not cheaper at all! I remind myself of that. And it is basically impossible to do all organic, at least for me, but I pick my items. The farmer's market here is in full bloom right now and there are some good organic growers there. And people get the impression that any place that sells $6/jar pasta sauce, sells nothing cheaper. I love the bulk bins at our co-op, buy what you need and eliminate waste, packaging, and paying for what you don't need.

I hope people will start educating themselves. Where I live, the majority of people are overweight, a huge portion are obese. It is scary just to walk around and notice this. The university clinic hired a special physician just to work with obese children, the kids come to the clinic after hours so they don't attract attention. It is very sad here in Kentucky, we are one of the most unhealthy and obese states. And you can't go a block without running into fast food restaurants, even in tiny towns.

[AllieB]

87. Poverty=Obesity. Food is a class issue, and the powerless are the victims of the food industry.

Access to nutritious food, along with the cost, is the biggest health issue affecting America.

[DemReadingDU]

123. Sometimes people with good jobs

They prefer eating eating McDonalds and other fast foods, and carbonated drinks. They don't take the time to go to the grocery for fresh fruits and veggies. Many people don't exercise either.

[create.peace]

137. sometimes weight protects women from being looked at

seriously, you can't assume it is poverty or poor food choices. grief, abuse, and fear of change can keep the weight on, and a nutritious diet can still result in obesity, if the body is still in stress, ie erratic eating of good food.

[AllieB]

154. My point was access to fresh foods, especially in the inner cities

where there are often few grocery stores. Many folks have to shop in bodegas or corner stores, where there are mostly packaged foods. certainly cortisol and other emotional issues can cause weight gain, but the major issue is access and affordability of fresh food.

[Grinchie]

109. Their is a reason why its labeled "Enriched White Flour"

It's enriched because it is nutritionally depleted, and they have to add the minerals taken out by processing by adding it back in, usualy in the form of a chemical ingrediant.

Also, they take the wheat germ away for animal feed in most cases.

Yet, the Wheat germ is were the fatty acids live, which are very important in our nutrition, but these Oils and fats oxidizes in a matter of days, so any flour over 5 days old is generally nutitionally depleted.

[RufusTFirefly]

19. Schlosser and Pollan are the major talking heads in this film

Although it does provide additional information as well, as you said, if you've read their books, you probably won't be surprised. But given that 80 percent of American families didn't buy a single book in 2007, "Food, Inc." may help expose the reporting of Michael Pollan and Eric Schlosser to a wider audience.

[defendandprotect]

104. War by Monsanto - Food by Monsanto . . . not a good idea--!!!

[Grinchie]

108. Growing food is a wasteful business

By Nature, you can't eat every morsel, otherwise you'd get sick from the food that didn't make it to the point where it is edible. This is the "10% to Nature" philosphy that Fukuoka mentions in his book "The One Straw Revolution" which is a timeless classic, and started me on the path of organic farming.

Ten Percent to Nature means allowing loss of the so called bumper crops and allow the plant to do their thing naturally.

We see ludicrously large crops from industrialize argriculture, but nobody questions whether this actually helps or harms the food.

I can tell you one thing, a woman is going to be physically stress after having 10 kids, yet this is what we demand from our food plants annually.

We need to slow down, and let the plants operate at their own chosen rhythm instead of jacking them up on chemicals to force more production out of them.

[handmade34]

173. yes, go see the movie

I have farmed and researched farming and food production most of my life and knew pretty much everything in the movie and still found it valuable to watch. I suggest everyone that can, take someone with them that may not be able to afford a ticket.

It is a 'class' thing (and a cultural one). There is a stigma out there towards those of us that take this stuff seriously and want our food to be healthy and nutritious. Some in my family made fun of me because I wouldn't eat commercial white bread and meat and other processed foods. Like they thought I thought I was too good to eat the food I grew up on...

I see it as an issue of healthy people, healthy environment, equitable money distribution, respect towards workers and animals, etc...

[Beaverhausen]

7. "The Omnivore's Dilemma" has a big section about Polyface Farms

That book (by Michael Pollan) is a must read. I'm glad Polyface gets some attention in this film also.

I'm not sure I'll be able to watch this. But I'm glad I gave up eating meat over 20 years ago.

[AllieB]

15. Michael Pollan was interviewed in the movie along with the author of Fast Food Nation.

Being a vegetarian for 10 years definitely made me aware of where my food came from, which is why vegetarians who rely on soy and fake meat products ought to think twice about consuming them. I wish I could still be one, especially after the scenes in the movie, but for health reasons (allergic to soy, grains, wheat, legumes) I had to change my diet. I buy meat from local organic farms, eat seasonally, which unfortunately means limited veggies here in MA in the winter. Thankfully there are many farms in New England that have the same philosophy as Joel Salatin.

[Merlot]

21. Me to - allergic to soy, wheat, legumes

So I adopted a diet that works for me. Minimal dairy, but I do eat egg whites, lotsa nuts, avocados when possible (great source of protein - and yum!). I also eat fish, but no meat/fowl. Fish is getting tricky with over farming of waters and factory farmed fish.

Those fake meat products are still processed so I won't eat them anyhow.

[AllieB]

25. You basically eat like me, except that I eat grass-fed beef, lamb, and chicken/turkey

I don't usually eat pork. You're right about fish. The fish market near my work in Cambridge labels everything thankfully, but it's scary that we may have driven tuna and salmon to extinction.

It's weird that a lot of people I know are either celiac, allergic to soy or beans. Is it contamination by GMO seeds? I know that gluten intolerance is common among people of Northern European descent, but the fact that there are so many food intolerances nowadays could be an entire thread by itself.

[catchnrelease]

40. Re: soy

According to the Weston Price Foundation, unfermented soy cannot be properly digested by humans(and some other mammals). Things like miso, tofu, soy sauces, etc are ok. People like to point to Asian cultures and say that they consume a lot of soy products, but in reality the amount of unfermented soy eaten is small. And now you find soy in everything as a protein source, so it's hard to avoid.

[flvegan]

50. Weston Price...really?

:eyes:

[AllieB]

54. Some could say the same about Dean Ornish et al.

For every study you cite, someone here could cite 3 that refute it. There are issues with soy-many people are allergic. I wonder if Monsanto and the GMO seeds contaminating non-GMO fields have something to do with it.

[flvegan]

61. Ornish isn't a shill.

Weston Price is. I agree, many folks are allergic to soy and therefore shouldn't eat it. My point isn't about soy overall, it's about the source.

[Grinchie]

111. Price a shill?

Heh that's a good one.

Care to elaborate on what makes you think this, because I haven't seen anything that raises any red flags considering he was working with 1930's science and was a man of his times.

Too many people forget to take their train of thought back to the period in which great works were written, and allow themselves to see things out of context.

Are you one of those kinds of people flvegan? or is it because he makes claims that Vegans fall prey to the same sort of physical degeneration due to lack of nutrition as those suffering from and industrialized diet, due to the fact that they are missing the essential nutrients only found in animal protein?

[flvegan]

165. Yup, you got me.

I sit here wasting away, lacking "essential nutrients only found in animal protein" *cough* bullshit *cough*. I wish I could type a longer response, but...the...malnutrition...

Oh wait, no I'm not. His claims about vegetarianism are absolute quackery.

And the Foundation's Farmer to Consumer Fund thing? Yeah, shill.

[Grinchie]

178. Yep, I guess I did.

I checked out www.ftcldf.org that you mention and as a farmer, I see nothing out of the ordinary regarding the concern of people to reign in the uncontrolled of unhealthy farming by protecting the small farmer that cannot right legislation like the Big Ag interests can.

On the surface, it looks like an honorable goal, so I am curious as to what makes the Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund a "Shill" organization? Because they defend farmers equally, whether they grow animals or grains?

To me, it sounds like you have some problem with people eating what their instinct tells them to eat. Research into chemistry has led me to the understanding that we are built to be omnivores. Chickens are omnivores. Ants are Omnivores, Flies are Omnivores, Mosquitoes are Omnivores, Fish are Omnivores, and the list goeas on and on. Even Jellyfish are Omnivores!

Unless you are a fanatic that doesn't believe in Evolution, then you must realize that man descended from the same stuff as all the other animals I listed above.

I feel sorry for the Vegan community these days. Our modern agricultural system is destroying hundreds of varieties of existing food plants yearly, and replacing it with GMO Soy, Corn, Canola and Cotton. The sad thing about it is that Animals don't even want to eat GMO feed, and they must be totally stress out in hunger before they will touch the stuff. The modern Human has no taste anymore. The modern human no longer listens to his or her body for the nutrients it needs. It needs to be told waht to do, since this important animal instinct has been lost.

I find it quite amazing, that 10 years ago, it was estimated that 90% of all Americans wanted mandatory labeling of GMO ingredients in food like the European model, yet we still don't have it. Meanwhile 85% of our crop is GMO and growing. The lack of labeling enables these toxic foods to be planted on massive scales in developing countries, and they are exported right back to the US, because there is no labeling. If their was labeling, the market for GMO would dry up over night.

Now we see the same demand for a Single Payer Option on the health plan, but the Corporations say no.

[AllieB]

179. Both 'Food Inc.' and Joel Salatin advertise on www.ftcldf.org

Like you, I couldn't find anything wrong with it, but I'm sure PETA or some other vegetarian group did. In fact, here are their petitions:

Support HR 778 Now, a bill that would effectively end the current federal ban on raw milk and raw milk products for human consumption in interstate commerce.

Oppose HR 2749, a bill that fails to address the real issues of food safety yet gives FDA increased power with less accountability. Its one-size-fits-all regulatory scheme will impact small farms and artisanal producers for the worse.

HR 2749 is out to screw the organic farmer and small farms.

Because Sally Fallon is on the board of FTCLF, the Weston Price haters discredit the whole organization.

[get the red out]

89. There is a lot of anti-soy propaganda out there

All sounding pretty much the same and could rival Republicans in scare tactics. I can't but wonder at its source, probably some of the bad food producers is my guess. I feel pretty good buying organic tofu. And it isn't all that costly.

[AllieB]

92. I think catchnrelease is correct.

From what I've read, I don't think soy-the way we eat it-is particularly healthy. the Weston A. Price foundation, or any group critical of vegetarianism, are attacked on DU. The fact remains that any study can be refuted. our whole concept of heart disease and cholesterol, for example, is based upon cherry-picked data. Just as the meat lobby sponsors studies that promote meat, the soybean/corn/wheat lobbies, as well as big pharma, sponsor research that condemn animal products and promote vegetarianism. Everyone wants to sell more of their product, and this is the state of medical research today. No one is immune. Basically, eat what's right for you and promotes health. For me, that wasn't soy, wheat, grains, corn, etc. Your mileage may vary.

[get the red out]

98. Everyone would have me dead by some decent food choice I make

And I am not anti-meat: http://unreasonable.org/node/1642

I do agree that over doing any dietary item is not a good thing, a varied diet that suites the individual, with lots of real food is best, whether vegetarian, mostly vegetarian (me), or vegan. So I don't have a philosophical bone to pick with those who eat meat. I have had great health success incorporating soy foods into my diet and get a little worn out with their blanket condemnation in some quarters of the web. If I were allergic I wouldn't eat it. Truth is in the eye of the beholder at this point and it seems there are as many who will think something is pure quackery as not. I happen to firmly believe the anti-soy hysteria is just that, hysteria; for those who have no allergy and tolerate soy. There are people who do not tolerate it, as with any food.

I also eat some poultry, natural cheeses and milk and loads of fruits and vegetables and nuts. So no matter what, someone has me condemned to a miserable death, LOL! Fortunately for me, and unfortunately for them, I am quite healthy.

[Grinchie]

110. I think the OP was referring to the Price-Pottinger Foundation

www.ppnf.org, which provides ongoing support for Weston Price's works.

It's kind of funny, because I heard of Weston Price, not through research on Nutrition, but from the book, "The Root Canal Coverup", which used Dr. Prices materials to support the findings regarding bateria causing focal infections when trapped inside teeth with fillings.

The book mentions that Price had found that bacteria would "Evolve" in the oxygen starved environment of the tooth capped with a filling, and it could chronically release toxins that would circulate through the body causing numerous diseases.

Not many people know this, but that was considered heresay up until recently, when recent studies have show that Bacteria can indeed selectivly evolve into other forms dependent upon their environment. Mainstream science didn't like the idea of simple animals forming out of thin air, a pleiomorphism was denounced as quackery for many years, but we now know that this is a fact.

As this news spreads, we will see a serious uproar regarding GMO foods, and the genetic traits they carry having the ability to trasfer to our gut bacteria, or to organisms that they hadn't considered.

Not to mention that they carry a non lethal dose of insecticide in every plant cell. Non-lethal, Yes! Non-Toxic, ehem, nothing to see here... (No)

[Javaman]

140. I'm glad you posted this...

I had a discussion on just this topic regarding soy. It's bad news.

The reason that stuff like miso, tofu, soy sauces are okay is because they are fermented before consumption.

I wish more people would clue into Weston Price.

People who roll their eyes at WP haven't a clue. They don't understand the depth of the research into traditional cooking that was studied.

We will eventually go back to that form of cooking and food preparation. People are always amazed as to why Asian cultures live longer healthier lives. It's because they don't eat as much garbage as we do (although the younger Asian generation is now experiencing obesity levels matching our own) and they ferment their foods.

There will be a food crash, it's inevitable. it will be only then, that people will finally wake up and start changing their eating habits.

[AllieB]

157. Because Weston Price is critical of veganism in particular

he gets attacked on DU. You should also check out how the lipid hypothesis was based upon a flawed study:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4

Actually, the French are right up there with the Japanese in longevity, and they eat lots of organ meat. :puke:

[Javaman]

161. Don't knock organ meat. LOL

I have been eating heart, liver, brain and tongue since I was a kid. :) My Italian grandmother from Italy, turned me on to it as a kid. If you want to get even more gross, she used to to make this old Italian meal called "blood pudding". It's exactly what the title infers.

Oh I agree with the whole lipid thing. The problem with fat, isn't the fat per say, it's the type of fat or better still, where it comes from. The garbage that is told to us regarding fat is so bizarre and down right wrong. Real clean fat, from healthy animals fed a diet of grass will produce exceptionally clean healthy fat. Where as the animals raised on factory farms produce god knows what kind of fat. Heck, my wife and I have started using lard again for cooking. Our local farmer at the farmers market who supplies us with pork and beef now offers lard.

So much disinformation out there, it's scary. both my sets of grandparents lived well into their 80's and 90's all healthy, no cancer or anything, all ate beef and pork along with the fat for years, how come mine and my parents generation isn't as healthy as theirs? That's one question no one seems to want to answer. We know why, though.

[AllieB]

162. My grandfather was almost 100 when he died peacefully and disease-free.

He ate tripe, kidney, lard, butter-all the things that the Powers That Be classify as unhealthy. The only thing that he ate in moderation were 'starches' and sugar. he allowed himself dessert once a week. Yes, we know why our parents' generation is unhealthy, and all signs point to the low fat frenzy around dietary cholesterol.

[Merlot]

44. If I were going to eat meat I'd eat the grass fed

But after 25 years of not eating meat, I'm not sure my stomach could adjust...and I really hae no desire to find out!

I think the wheat/gluten allergies are from the processing. As for the soy or beans, I have no idea. In fact, until this post, I had never connected the wheat and soy/legume issue. The wheat issue may predate the GMO seeds for me, but who knows.

[AllieB]

26. DUPE

[create.peace]

31. i eat very similar, but no farmed fish, ever....occasionally alaskan salmon caught by friends nt

[Merlot]

43. I had some Alaskan salmon caught by friends once - wow that was good!

For a while the stores didn't label the fish as farm raised, now they do so it's much easier to avoid.

[create.peace]

45. i would rather remember the fantastic meals like that than

have hundreds of mediocre ones you can't trust. our normal meal here is organic brown basmati rice, with organic veggies, ground nuts, braggs. lots of garlic, organic olive or grapeseed oil. we probably eat that half of our dinners. other nights, black beans, rice, organic cheese, corn tortillas (corn, lime and water) with organic salad. soups in the winter with more root veggies.

[Beaverhausen]

23. Did you hear about the internet movement to have Pollan named as Sec. of Agriculture?

I have to admit I was extremely pissed when Obama named Vilsack from Iowa to that position.

[Grinchie]

112. Now Vilsack is a Shill...

My whole family and circle of friends was pissed about Vilsack. It was one of many indicators that the DLC is alive and well in Obama's Administration.

It's very disappointing.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

38. Giving up meat and all animal products

Was the natural answer to many of these problems, I gave up animal products all together and feel so much better not only physically but that I am not contributing to the deforestation and factory farm problems. In an age where there are many healthy subsitutes to eating animal products I see no legitimate reason not to go vegan in a society where we can find alternatives to animal products. Supporting factory farms and the meat lobby is part of the problem not an answer.

[flvegan]

51. Seconded.

Good post.

[AllieB]

55. I can think of reasons not to go vegan as well as reasons to be a vegan.

since I was one for 10 years. To each his own. Some of those 'healthy substitutes' to animal products are processed and are of questionable origin (Boca Burgers, for example).

I'm allergic to most of the things I ate when I was a vegetarian. I'm lucky enough to shop from local farmers who I've known for years.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

62. Sorry I dont buy it at all

but you are correct to each his own.

In the United States and around the world, overgrazing leads to the extinction of indigenous plant and animal species, soil erosion, and eventual desertification that renders once-fertile land barren. Livestock grazing is the number one cause of threatened and extinct species both in the United States and in other parts of the world.

While factory farms are ruining our land, the commercial fishing industry is pushing entire oceanic ecosystems to the brink of collapse. Commercial fishing boats indiscriminately pull as many fish as they can out of the sea, leaving ecological devastation and the bodies of nontarget animals in their wake. Fishing methods like bottom trawling and long-lining have emptied millions of miles of ocean and pushed some marine species to the brink of extinction

Of all the agricultural land in the U.S., nearly 80 percent is used in some way to raise animals—that's roughly half of the total land mass of the U.S. More than 260 million acres of U.S. forest have been cleared to create cropland to grow grain to feed farmed animals.

More than one-third of all fossil fuels produced in the United States are used to raise animals for food. 80 percent of all agricultural land in the U.S. is used by the meat and dairy industries (this includes, of course, the land used to raise crops to feed them). Most of us turn off the lights when we leave a room and attempt to conserve energy in other ways, but eating meat is the most inefficient and resource-intensive thing we do. If we Americans cut our meat consumption, our oil problems would be drastically reduced.

The world's cattle alone consume a quantity of food equal to the caloric needs of 8.7 billion people—more than the entire human population on Earth. About 20 percent of the world's population, or 1.4 billion people, could be fed with the grain and soybeans fed to U.S. cattle alone.

These are just a few examples, I think it is crucial that more people explore the possibilities of going vegan. Sorry I don't buy your argument that there are reasons not to. If you have examples please produce them.

[AllieB]

64. Sanctimony is the reason why the message falls on deaf ears.

What do you suggest that the small farmers who have been involved in animal husbandry for generations do? Most of the farms where I get my meats and produce are well over 100 years old (typical for New England). I understand your arguments, but the small, traditional farms have been around for thousands of years. They're not going away, unless agribusiness has its way.

Here is a personal example. I was a vegetarian for 10 years, eating what I was allergic to: soy, grains, legumes, wheat/gluten. At the time, I was a competitive runner and triathlete. I became very ill, and borderline diabetic, though I didn't eat sugar. My B-12 was always low, despite supplementing. Before you start lecturing me on my diet, I was under the care of a vegan nutritionist and I live in Boston, where our doctors are among the best in the world. They diagnosed me with fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, and a dozen other things before I changed my diet. BTW I was only 30 at the time. How old are you?

I eat locally-produced food now, including eggs, grass-fed, free-range meats, organic produce, and locally-caught fish. I do not eat soy, grains of any kind, or beans of any kind, and very little dairy. I've never been healthier. Like you said, to each his own. We are omnivores, but if you're healthy being a vegetarian/vegan, more power to you.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

76. Accusing me of sanctimony when I was only producing facts about

meat eating is why I wont continue to have a discussion with you about this, and why I only read your first sentence, too bad.

[AllieB]

77. Do you care about the future of small farms in the US? Or if people can't eat vegetarian due to

health issues?

[AllieB]

78. You kind of proved my point regarding sanctimony.

:-)

[Grinchie]

113. Great points you make there Gunfighter

I am in total agreement with your statements.

However, I do raise my own chickens, and when the Gods see fit to run a pack of wild pigs through my front yard, I will take one so they won't deforest my native plants and ecosystem.

There is a difference between respectfully consuming natures gift, and torturing natures gift in the quest for McNuggets in huge factory farms.

The Agricultural system in the US is broken, and we are exporting it worldwide, destroying indiginous agriculture in it's wake.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

124. You are absolutely correct Grinchie

There is a difference, which is why I am not unreasonable. It is a personal choice for me not to do so, but I respect your reasoning for saving your chicks. The agricultural system is very broken and you are right we have exported it worldwide. Something has to change.

[anneboleyn]

116. Me too. Soy products are very tricky, for example. I had horrible IBS as a vegetarian.

[AllieB]

120. You and me both, not to mention farting.

:blush:

I was dating my husband at the time and he had an affectionate nickname for me: 'fartmeister'.

[a la izquierda]

125. Hmmm, interesting.

I've been a vegetarian for 10 years. My doctor "thinks" I have IBS. He doesn't really know, but suspects that's it, because I never feel particularly sick (ie, no fever), but my digestion is a disaster.

[AllieB]

163. You may have a food intolerance-that's what did it to me.

I was allergic to grains, wheat, and soy. My bowels were a mess too. Did you try eliminating gluten?

[marmar]

9. I'm going to catch it when it opens in Detroit this week.....

Thx for the review. :hi:

[Mrs. Overall]

12. Thank you for this great summary/review of Food, Inc. This reminds me

of both Fast Food Nation and an eye-opening documentary I saw on Monsanto.

Our unregulated food industry is killing us. Eating healthy is a choice, but it takes both money and time to purchase organic/free-range and to prepare it. Very difficult for a large family with two parents working, yet barely able to pay their bills.

I can't believe our food is not more regulated. Hopefully this movie will cause another push toward cleaning up this industry.

K & R

[Grinchie]

114. Eating healthy is job number one.

It will pay great dividends to your health and welfare, while owning a big house or a car will not.

If the Big Ag Corporations weren't so ridiculously subsidized, there would be little difference in price.

[Merlot]

13. I'm a bit behind, as I just watched SICKO last night

(thanks to someone here who posted the link for the entire movie on youtube). I had put it off seeing it becasue I knew it would make me angry, but I did not count on the huge amount of digust I feel. And food is the second part of the health issue. If the lack of health care doesn't kill you, the food will.

I probably don't have the stomach to see this movie. I stopped eating meat about 20 yers ago because I read an article about the abuses of factory farming and hormone and antibiotics. I don't mind organic farming for meat, it's not like I think every one should stop eating meat. But everyone SHOULD know where their meat comes from.

I think it's one of the reasons I'm reasonably healthy today. But I'm under no illusions that I'm safe from bad food.

[AllieB]

17. Everyone should know where their meat came from-and whether their fruits and vegetables

are treated with chemicals, wax, or genetically modified. The food industry fights against this labeling.

[Merlot]

24. It's ridiculous that we should have to spend so much time and energy

protecting ourselves from our food. That I can't just see a tomato at the store and buy it. Still have to check to see if it's grown in mexico. Of course, can't tell if it's genetically modified or treated with chemicals. Don't have the space to grow my own tomatoes. So, at a certain point, ya gotta just let go and hope for the best. And that is sad.

[create.peace]

29. there has always been a reason to pay attention

wooden nutmegs ring a bell?

'the jungle' upton sinclair?

the time you might spend making sure you are getting sound organic, maybe local, produce, milk, etc, is small compared to the time it takes to grow enough food to feed your household. if it isn't worth the time to choose good food what is worth the time? </rant>

[Kali]

18. Salatin has several books out too.

and speaks around the country fairly often - I highly recommend seeing him if you get a chance.

The demand for cheap food by consumers plays into the problems too - the big corps are not entirely to blame, there is a degree of personal responsibility that is lacking. Of course if you are poor and work all the time the thought of shopping and meal prep on top of everything else can be daunting.

The subsidies that go to huge operations needs to be redistributed to small family operations and back to small rural communities. Even if the small organic (or somewhat less than that) farmer is less "efficient" there are other social and ecological considerations to the issue.

[SpiralHawk]

20. Solutions and pathways

This blog -- The Call of the Land -- offers lots of pathways and solutions for families and neighborhoods Scroll around and check the Links We are going to have to solve this polluting, sickening mess ourselves

http://thecalloftheland.wordpress.com/

[create.peace]

32. thanks!

you might like this:http://www.dirtthemovie.org/clips

[Stevenmarc]

33. In 1906 when Upton Sinclair wrote The Jungle

it led to the passage of legislation and the eventual formation of the FDA, it will be interesting to see where this film takes us.

[AllieB]

57. The Jungle is mentioned in the movie.

It was influential in the growth of unionization in the meatpacking industry. Now we've come full circle and it is again one of the most dangerous, low-paid jobs. There was a sequence in the movie that talked about how Smithfield Foods colluded with ICE to arrest illegal immigrants, since there was always another one willing to take his/her place. This was used as an intimidation tactic to discourage unionization.

[glitch]

34. Thank you for your excellent review.

It hits my neck of the woods July 3rd, going to overcome my squeamishness and go see it. :scared:

[AllieB]

58. I cried in parts. It's truly awful.

[Richard D]

35. No matter how poor I've been . . .

. . . I could always afford to buy some organic brown rice, whole grains, and beans, a few organic vegies, a bag of onions, and some bulk spices. A crock pot or pressure cooked can be used for cooking, so time isn't a huge issue. It may cost a few dollars more, but my medical bills approach zero, and I'm very rarely ill. With a bit more money, I get more seasonal local produce. A bit more and good fruits. A bit more and grass fed lamb, organic eggs, and occasionally carefully chosen fish. I might eat meat once a month, fish a couple times a month, eggs every other day, milk rarely. It's not as cheap as big mac, but it's not tremendously more expensive than a non-organic packaged and canned food diet.

[glitch]

37. That's the way I eat, except I don't do red meat and recently I switched out rice for quinoa

It's not as expensive as it seems when you consider processed foods are pretty much money for nothing (if you're lucky).

[spiritual_gunfighter]

39. I am not rich by any means

and granted it is more expensive by and large to eat healthy organic food and vegan but I do so. It is too important not to not only for my own physical health but for the health of the world. Eating animal products or disgusting fast food isn't an option for me anymore, it is too bad more people don't do it.

[lindisfarne]

48. To add: many who claim they cannot afford organic eat out at restaurants, buy daily coffee,

go to bars, albeit occasionally.

One does not have to eat organic (or locally grown) exclusively - in fact, this would be pretty near impossible for most.
Eating organic in season, choosing to avoid the dirty-dozen, and weighing the $ cost vs. the environmental & personal health costs, are good places to start.

I rarely eat out - I choose instead to buy more organic. Most restaurant food is not terribly healthy and frankly, I'm not too convinced the preparation is terribly sanitary.

I, for example, eat ketchup so rarely that I've stopped buying it. Organic ketchup is not too expensive, but I will use less than 1/8 of a bottle in a year or more. Instead, I just grab ketchup packets and use them at home. I guess I could coordinate with others, or buy organic ketchup, pour some out for my use, and give the rest to a relative, but I haven't done that. Maybe I will! But since I eat so little, the pesticide exposure is minimal. I worry about other larger exposures more.

[get the red out]

91. Restaurant food all tastes the same

I eat out so little anymore that restaurant food all tastes the same, at least from the chains. The locally owned restaurants are the only ones worth paying for in my opinion. I remember reading in "Fast Food Nation" about the super-secret chemical flavorings used in restaurant foods, and how addictive they could be to people. I would imagine those flavorings are why the chain food all tastes the same to me. Those flavors sure don't match up to pulling some fresh thyme off my little plant and using it in my dinner, like I did last night!

I have met many people who have worked in chain restaurants who confirm your suspicions about possible unsanitary preparations.

[AllieB]

59. We eat similarly except for the grains and legumes (allergic)

Meat from local farms is expensive, but it tastes a hell of a lot better than the supermarket stuff. We probably eat more fish and chicken than beef and lamb. We have a great fish market and meat market locally. In New England, we eat less veggies in the winter obviously and more in the summer and fall.

We are also never ill. Food is indeed the best medecine.

[create.peace]

72. we are eating that way on less than 20,000pa for three of us nt

[bvar22]

46. My wife and I feel so strongly about this issue....

...that we sold everything, moved to The Woods in 2006, and planted a BIG Veggie Garden.
We also keep Chickens and Honey Bees.
This is our 3rd season, and we are still expanding.

We are not self sufficient yet, but we get closer every year.

[truedelphi]

68. I'm in awe/ I hope our garden rivals yours in a year or two -

I wake up every morning and go out and dig out soil from the big empty hillside -- now covered with nettles and thistle.

We have so little soil on our property that nothing grows. But am putting about 60 lbs of soil a day on the land, so maybe over time it will improve.

Thanks for the pix.

[bvar22]

88. Thanks for the kind words.

It really is something that you just wake up and do everyday.
Then one day, you look around and go "Wow! Look what happened."

The soil here is also pretty poor (red clay and sandstone), but there was an old, abandoned goat shed and chicken house on the property when we got here that had never been mucked out. There was about a foot of black, cured compost in this old building that we were able to wheelbarrow over the hill and use in our raised boxes. That, and the fact that our garden is on a pretty good slope is the main reason we opted for raised boxes.

This is our 3rd growing season, and thing are coming along nicely....a little bit at a time.
Early Spring 2007



Spring 2009


One of the cool things we discovered is that by simply mowing the weeds down regularly provided a layer of mulch, and encouraged the growth of clover and shorter grasses. This started holding rainwater and moisture on the slopes and started building topsoil. The nettles, thistles, and briars started disappearing on their own since they never go tall enough to seed out. We had to dig out a lot of rocks, logs, stumps, debris, trash, and fill some holes before we could mow, but Winter is good for that kind of work. Now, the more we mow, the smoother and more fertile it gets.

More photos & details from season 1 & 2 are here if you're interested.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=246x5729

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=246x7979

[Grinchie]

117. Keep at it!

Mowing is one of best management tools a farmer has, along with irrigation.

You can also help out the soil by introducing clovers, vetch and other nitrogen fixers.

Always leave the cuttings where they fall to feed the soil.

[truedelphi]

166. The pics of your garden are great. I am glad you are reaping the

Rewrads of the work you put into it.

[lindisfarne]

47. I hope they showed just enough of the mistreatment of animals to get the message across. Otherwise,

people who should see this documentary won't, and its very important message won't get out to more of the general public. I know the situation is horrible - try reading Temple Grandin's Animals Make Us Human.

Temple Grandin's approach is likely the one to best work - she understands the need for the industry to make profit, and comes up with ways to improve the animals' lives while (usually) ensuring profit is still possible.

Of course, public outrage helps get the message across that some practices won't generate any profit if the public stops purchasing. I personally do not purchase non-organic beef, chicken, pork, or locally-grown. In both cases, I make the effort to ensure that animal welfare is of utmost importance, including humane slaughter. Humane slaughter is very difficult for many small farmers because slaughter has to occur at USDA certified facilities. The smaller facilities may end up with better treatment, simply because the numbers of animals are smaller, but this is not always the case. In the case of kosher slaughter, for example, many cases of horrible suffering of the animals have been documented - not because the slaughter itself was kosher but because of practices like suspending the animal upside down before slaughter begins, which is terrifying and incredibly painful to the animal.

There are a few agencies beginning to certify humane treatment of animals, including slaughter. One such agency is here http://www.certifiedhumane.org/

Of course, in addition to trying to find information about producer practices, decreasing one's consumption of meat products is the best way to reduce the overall suffering of animals, and letting the producers, plus their industry organizations, know you are doing this, is the best way of influencing how they treat the animals.

[AllieB]

60. Even though I'm an omnivore now, I was a vegetarian for years

and this taught me to understand where my food came from. Now that I eat meat again-and probably not nearly the amounts that most people eat-I buy from local farmers, certified organic. I will check out the link in your post and Temple Grandin's book.

[flvegan]

52. Thanks for the review. Very insightful.

I look forward to seeing this one.

[AllieB]

56. As someone said above, if you've read Michael Pollan, a lot of it is repetitive.

But it is worth seeing. I hope to see the food industry brought down in my lifetime.

[NeedleCast]

63. Of Course, the Flip Side of the Coin is a Lot of Starvation

300,000,000

That's a lot of people to feed.

Bringing down the big farm/food industry? Careful what you wish for.

[AllieB]

66. Regulate the hell out of it and break it up. The monopoly is killing us.

The problem is that the food industry is feeding 300,000,000 people chemical-laden, mass-produced, contaminated "food", instead of nutritious, real food.

[lindisfarne]

70. Americans won't starve if they eat less meat. And the best local produce is produce

you grow yourself. Plant a garden.

Americans are far from starving - haven't you heard, obesity is a problem! In large part, because of all the processed foods they eat.

Americans would likely eat more fresh produce if they bought better tasting stuff (this has been shown to be the case in many lunch programs as they introduce more fresh fruits & vegetables and better, healthier, tastier recipes - which don't have to increase costs).

Eating healthy can be affordable.
Oatmeal is far cheaper than cheerios (plain cheerios are one of the healthiest breakfast cereal options out there but still aren't great), and much healthier.

I see kids from families which don't have lots of money eating things like fruit roll-ups and parents think this is healthier than candy. It's not. It's marketing. You might as well give your kids candy if you're going to give them this highly processed, sugar & fat rich, food-substitute.

[AllieB]

74. "Americans are far from starving." I would argue that they're nutrient-starved

which is why we're seeing so many diseases like diabetes, as well as deficiencies of vitamins like B-12 and D more often. The stuff that the food industry produces should not be classified as food, including the produce that is chemically and genetically altered. From using science to alter food, they've depleted it of nutritional value.

Obesity is a symptom, not a cause. About the only medical issue obesity actually causes would be joint problems. Obesity is a symptom of insulin resistance and hyperinsulinemia caused by eating too many refined carbs and processed foods.

Eating well is a class issue-not everyone has the time or the space to have a garden. This is where the food purists come off as sanctimonious. I'm lucky to be able to have a small garden, as well as have access to local farms. The family in the film barely had time to sleep, let alone cultivate a garden and prepare nutritious meals. Until the cost of broccoli, or an apple, or free-range eggs and meat, is less than the cost of McDonalds or ramen noodles, the poor and working class will always end up unhealthy due to the food that they have access to and can afford.

[lindisfarne]

79. It's true Americans can fail to get needed nutrients. But that wasn't the point of the message I r

responded to.
If more Americans ate whole foods, fresh fruits and veggies, as I described, we'd have fewer of the "malnourished but obese" people.

[WinkyDink]

122. There are never coupons for fresh fruits/vegetables. Not everyone can plant a garden.

Like my relatives in Bayonne, NJ.

[blueworld]

131. I was also from Hudson County - howdy:)

I don't know if this applies, but even when I was in the asphalt jungle, I grew small cherry tomato & pepper plants in flower pots (about 8 - 12 inch pots) on my porch, stoop or fire escape as long as I got about 6 hours of sun per day. The heat radiating off all the cement actually HELPS the summer crop!

Less sun? Maybe they can grow small lettuces & radishes in those longer, narrower planters. I also grew a ton of herbs in flower pots & small planters.

When I was in rural northwestern NJ, I had to put small raised beds in my front yard because that was the only place I got enough sun. Just a couple of beds, small - I kept them tidy and the neighbors loved them & never complained. A couple of pea bushes in spring, a few green beans in summer - anything I could manage. Basil & oregano stuffed between tomato plants. Marigolds around the edges. Cukes in one of those big planters people set out by the ends of their driveways. Potatoes in black plastic garbage bags on the patio!

I just want to help, not be a busybody:) However, every piece of homegrown produce I can feed my family, I feel safer & healthier & happier. And it's delicious. Best wishes.:hi:

[lindisfarne]

167. Spinach and lettuce grow really well in containers. Go to Target, get one of

their big tubs (3 feet across) with rope handles (<$10), get a drill, drill some holes in bottom for drainage, throw some large stones/rocks in bottom (do this after you've put it on something to catch water draining & positioned it where you want to have it). Buy organic soil & compost; mix well; could add some organic fertilizer. Fill to about 8" from top

I've grown pole beans this way (they need long strings to grow on - run about 8 down from an 8-10 foot high pole & tie to edges (more drilling), lettuce & spinach, cherry tomatoes (harder to grow bigger tomatoes organically unless you really know what you're doing soil-wise & need lots of sun), peas (they don't like it when it gets hot so this is something to start relatively early). I suspect you could also do radishes easily.

Obviously, if a person doesn't even have a balcony with sun, this really isn't an option. But maybe they know someone who is willing to let them dig up part of a lawn for a garden, if they share their bounty.

Keep containers watered - they dry out faster.
========
Buy fruits & vegetables in season. My backup is bananas, but I try to buy in season, usually organic to avoid the dirty dozen, but sometimes locally grown in a sustainable way. Organic apples are almost as cheap are nonorganic in season.

My first priority is to buy organic. I rarely eat out, rarely drink. Never go to movies (wait for DVD-usually at library). Am so far behind in electronic gadgets I find it challenging to use someone else's cell phone (no cell phone, no iPod, etc.)

I don't buy everything organic - it's strategic. But many who say they CAN'T afford organic are simply making choices to spend that money on other luxury items (to me, a cell phone is a luxury item). Obviously, this isn't true across the board, but it's the majority of folks who say they can't afford organic.

[AllieB]

168. When I lived in the city, I had a container garden.

Thankfully I had a sunny spot to grow tomatoes.

I think you're right about priorities. Some people simply don't think what they put in their mouths is important, yet have the cash for the latest gadgets. I think that the majority of working poor aren't in this group. If you've ever been to an inner city grocery store, the prices are way more expensive than in the burbs and there's less choice. Michael Pollan was on NOW on PBS last year and spoke about the dearth of supermarkets and farmers markets in poorer communities, which forced people to buy from corner stores with few fresh food options, as well as fast food establishments, which are everywhere. I think in some cases it's choice, but in most it's access, lack of time, and lack of knowledge of what's nutritious.

[tabbycat31]

65. I want to see

in fact I have the book on reserve at the library (I did not buy a book in 2007 either but used the local library system and read a lot) and plan on picking it up tomorrow when I'm in the vicinity.

I eat very little processed foods, and meat only once a day (if that). I tried to grow some veggies this year but I don't see it working out as of now (maybe next year). I don't eat HFCS anymore.

I'm reading The End of Food right now, and that's very eye-opening. I love books about food.

[niyad]

67. k & r for this most important topic

[roody]

69. I think I will eat organic beans and rice today---cooked at home.

[get the red out]

85. LOL, I just did!

Black beans and rice, so good.

[Fire1]

71. That's the problem. Safe and nutritious food should be a

'right' not a privilege.

[DeschutesRiver]

73. eww, the ammonia part:( But the latinos eating cheaper at McD's makes no sense

unless that was $11 for the a day's worth of meals for four at McD's (which isn't possible), and the grocery trip involved mostly processed convenience foods? Did this family know how to shop economically for a family, and do they know how to cook (not just put together various processed stuff or reheat, but cook?)?

I ask because I grew up in a working class family of four, and there is no way we could afford to eat at McDonalds more than maybe once a week, because it was more expensive than real cooking at home. We just could not afford to do this other than as a family treat - yeah, I am an old dinosaur who remembers when fast food was a treat, not a daily way to have all your food intake.

Maybe we ate at a chinese restaurant once a month. That was it. And we had healthy enough food, but not the most expensive organics nor the exotic fruits/veggies - just the basics. Didn't starve, had as much as we wanted, but didn't have absolutely everything that was available in grocery store for consumption. Expensive grocery items didn't come home with us, so no freezer case stuff, no pre-made meals, and only a few processed items that were on sale and were budget stretchers to be mixed with other stuff. Nothing fancy whatsoever.

I haven't seen this movie yet, but really want do so. After a few days of working the grass fed beef we raise back down from our ridges, we finally got a few into one of the cattle pens. Our cattle are semi wild free rangers who live together in their own little closed herd, grazing on hundreds of acres, doing what cows do - no hormones, no antibiotics, no bad fillers, just hay and high desert grasses and spring water. Because they live out on their range, they are not the easiest to pen up, though our mom cows and the bull will follow me and work with me if I have the food wagon:) We called the local mobile butchering service out to shoot one, a cow who had her first calf ever in March, refused to nurse it, and though we tried for 2 days with bottles/tubing, we were unable to save the baby (first time that had ever happened, and made me cherish my steady older cow moms very much). We do this once or twice a year, as dictated by the amounts we have in the freezer (or if we need to cull one for any reasons).

Even though it is more work than hitting the Safeway meat counter, I am grateful for meat without crap in it because I control what goes in, and more comfortable that so long as I choose to eat meat, I am being more humane with how they live than grocery feedlot cows who end up stuck in tight overcrowed pens, eating unnatural diets, pumped full of hormones for growth for most of their brief lives.

[AllieB]

75. Actually, the family was in the produce aisle.

Food is a class issue. Like you, I grew up working class, but back in the 70s and 80s, soda and candy really was more expensive than fruits, veggies and meat and dairy from our local farmer. Now it's the opposite. The food industry started to consolidate in earnest and add nasty chemicals in the '80s.

[DeschutesRiver]

80. Produce aisle - that makes more sense

Typically, the only things I can find inexpensively there on a regular basis are potatoes, sometimes onions, maybe some veggies that are reduced per pound at certain holidays like asparagus at easter, broccoli, etc. And of course, have to take care because some of the produce items offered come from environments that are not healthy in the slightest, and who wants to eat that? Still, even if the family has to change some of their dietary preferences, I still think they'd do better $$ and health wise if they never went to McD's again. That stuff is just not real food.

I garden here, but that is never a sure bet. Last year - great garden, froze as much as we could eat, all was good. This year? Unseasonable weather - 3 solid weeks of driving rain, thunderstorms that brought hail, and now cold temps (it was only 38 this morning! Might get below freezing tonight!) ruined all my tomatoes, most of the zuchini, etc. Some farmers in the valley where it is usually easier to grow stuff (unlike here in the high desert) lost 50-60% of their crops. Some CSAs lost almost all. I have a bunch of backup tomatoes/zukes/cukes etc ready to plant, but when? And will there be enough time in my short growing season?

Over the years I've gathered a ton of free windows from here/there, when people have replaced theirs, because I planned someday to add a small greenhouse. "Someday" may have just become "today".

ETA: forgot to say thanks for posting about that film and bringing this issue some attention - maybe just a few people will watch and think, and make some changes in their own lives. It has been a couple of years since I had my "moment" when bad food brought bad things to my life, and it was through all the research I subsequently did that I changed my food consumption ways as much as I could. When I finally put it all together, I was horrified at what has gone on under own noses, and dismayed that I complicit too in what has gone on - after all, I had continued to buy and support such practices that eventually brought harm to me and my family.

[get the red out]

90. Agreed!

I remember being a kid in the 70s begging to go to McDonalds for dinner and my mom telling me that we couldn't afford to eat out all the time and that I would be eating dinner at home. Thank God! We had balanced meals and I love veggies and at 45 am not obese. I am grateful to my mom for telling me we couldn't afford all that eating out.

Now it is a lot different. The mass production has made really nasty food seem very cheap.

[AllieB]

93. Back then, McDonalds fried its french fries in beef tallow or lard.

Now they use canola or soybean oil, which is highly processed and not real food. At least animal fat comes from an animal and not some chemistry lab.

[get the red out]

100. If you can call them animals

after they are pumped full of drugs and penned in a feed lot and fattened on corn they weren't designed to eat. Too sad what they use for food and how it is produced. McDonalds is bad stuff. Pure poison.

[Grinchie]

118. I ate one of those "Ammonia" burgers once many years ago.

You could spell a chemical taint on the meat, and it was utterly inedible. This was shortly after the Jack in the Box incident that killed a child in Washington state many years ago.

[Badgerman]

82. An important 'Follow-Up' to this story at.....

http://www.countrysidemag.com/issues/90/90-2/Jerri_Cook.html

This is a direct tie in with the movie...and completely true.

[AllieB]

86. Thank you-there sure is a direct tie in to the movie.

Monsanto strikes again.

[bvar22]

105. Countryside & Small Stock Journal....

...is one of our Bibles.
:thumbsup:

[PCIntern]

94. Directed by a High School Classmate of mine from New Hope, PA!!

I knew Robbie Kenner when he was just a young, creative, guy. He's had a great career.

[AllieB]

95. Cool! It was really well directed.

It was low-key rather than sensational a la Michael Moore. As upset as I was, it was nothing that I hadn't read before, but it really packed a punch.

[glinda]

96. Poisoned by bad food and bad environment is the reason we should have health care

that we can afford. I don't think I will see it as I am sure it will make me sick.

[AllieB]

97. We have so many things stacked against us, single payer is the only way

we can fight the corporate interests that are trying to poison us.

[get the red out]

99. Absolutely

Our nutrition combined with medical costs is a corporate profit paradise.

[glinda]

160. Absolutely! This is WHY they should all work FOR the PEOPLE instead of the KILLERS.

[bertman]

101. Thanks for the review, AllieB. I think I'll pass on the movie since I'm an avid reader of

books and articles and internet stories about food, food production, and the ills of factory farming.

Where I live we have a vibrant local and regional organic farming community. The food is more expensive than what you buy in the stores, but it's tasty and doesn't have the burden of bad that industrial agriculture food has.

Lots of good ideas and suggestions in this thread.

Recommend.

[Kablooie]

103. It made me hungry.

[anneboleyn]

115. But there is a legitimate problem with the immense expense of organic and locally grown foods.

The only farm near us sells five-pound roasting chickens for twenty dollars a chicken (compared to five dollars for an organic roaster from the local Target and even less for a chicken from Wal-Mart). Organic foods from the big chain we all know about are outrageously expensive and far beyond the means of the majority of average families.

I spent every dime I had on organic foods and my vegetarian lifestyle all through college and grad school and I still developed a rare form of cancer, so I am not a believer in the cure-all promise of organic foods. In fact every young woman I've known who was a vegetarian (or worse, a vegan) had significant health problems, especially severe anemia and chronic fatigue.

Plus I want to see the long-term studies showing that someone who eats only organic foods will not develop diabetes. There is a basic lack of understanding there.

[Silent3]

172. Don't you know? Artificial = BAD, Natural = GOOD!

You can't explain how silly that is without someone freaking out that you're whitewashing all of the real problems in our food supply, however.

Anecdotes and personal stories are practically worthless here. We need longitudinal studies of the health of diverse groups consuming various diets, including things like life expectancy and health care costs.

Life expectancy is much longer today than it was 200 years ago when "natural" and "locally-grown" was all there was to eat, when hardly anyone was "suffering" from the apparent evils of (gasp!) vaccination and Big Pharma "poisons". We owe a lot of that increase in life span to better sanitation and the sheer increase in available food (from borderline starvation to, at least for Americans and much of the industrialize world, glut), but clearly it's not like we're doing everything wrong now, or that "natural" and "locally-grown" have ever automatically produced trim, fit healthy centenarians.

[AllieB]

174. We absolutely owe longevity to antibiotics and penicillan.

Back when people ate 'naturally', they also died of things like pneumonia, smallpox, and measles. All the good food in the world couldn't stop the spread of contagious diseases.

[Silent3]

175. Buh, buh...

...you only get sick if you've done something WRONG (like letting TOXINS!!! into your system) to MESS UP your immune system, otherwise our natural defenses are impenetrable!!! :)

[AllieB]

176. Are you one of those woo-woos?

;-)

Science has brought great advances. I do agree that Big Pharma needs to be reigned in. Antibiotics are necessary, though I think they're often over-prescribed.

[Silent3]

177. I'm just channeling my inner woo. :)

The problem is that often there's a kernel of truth in some "woo", but it gets distorted beyond all reason. There are a lot problems we need to solve in both food and medicine, and part of that solution might very well involve getting closer to nature -- but a few problems might best be solved by technology and chemical additives and genetic engineering too.

I think one of the best ways to deal with getting rid of the horror of the way animals are treated in modern farm factories, and to make meat production far more energy efficient, might be to take the animals out of the process and find a way to grow meat as a tissue culture. I don't know yet if or how well this could be done, but if it could be done, regardless of how healthy and efficient the product might be, there would be a huge amount of resistance from the "all-natural" crowd.

[Grinchie]

119. So, can anyone explain why this film is not being widely shown to American Audiences?

Perhaps Big Agriculture wouldn't like it.

Open your eyes and see the suppression of critical information such as this film happen in plain sight.

[WinkyDink]

121. "The ugly facts are hidden by" the government and the media.

[SargassoSea]

126. Find a showing near you! Maybe...

Got all registered and everything to add this:

http://bit.ly/aVqLR

No showings near me - although I'd probably just want to rip my head off afterward anyway.

Thanks for the review.

[azul]

132. Welcome to DUU!

U of DU you know.

I think the last film in the trilogy of broken healthcare, food industry and government, following Sicko and Food Inc., to complete the circle and let the viewer connect the allegations, would be a documentary detailing the healthcare and food corporations pouring money into Washington and coming away with legislation. A film about how these giant corporations came to have more say in legislation than regular people and their health.

[Shallah Kali]

128. Other documentaries on this topic 'Our Daily Bread' 'The Future of Food' 'King Corn'

http://www.ourdailybread.at

http://www.thefutureoffood.com

http://www.kingcorn.net

[JPZenger]

129. k and r.

[knitter4democracy]

133. I only get my meat from small, local producers.

This is why. I've also tried that other meat--tasteless and disgusting. We're finishing up the last of the bison, and the venison will last me awhile yet, and then I'll have to start stocking up at our local small butcher for all the local family farms.

As for produce, I tend to eat in season for the most part and then can/freeze/dehydrate what I can to get us through the rest of the year. Sure, I run out and buy other stuff, but I try to reduce how much we're exposed to. Monsanto and Cargill are flat-out evil, and don't get me started on Del Monte and what they've done in Central America.

[imdjh]

134. It still comes down to choices. It would be cheaper for me to make better food choices.

I make bad food choices all the time. I know this, and I do it anyway. It isn't a matter of economics, it would actually be cheaper for me to eat better.

[Javaman]

138. I'm glad this movie is finally out...

I hope it gets wide play, but I seriously doubt it. There are forces behind film releases, even of the independent kind, that have political agenda's that go way beyond the film makers control.

That said, anyone who reads or pays attention wouldn't be the least bit surprised by the information being presented in the film. Books such as "fast food nation" which was made into a really bad movie (that film maker should be shot), goes into intricate detail regarding the beef industry. Just the chapter entitled, "Kevin", could be made into a movie on it's own. It details the factual plight of a slaughter house worker that is forced out of his job by giving him more and more hazardous jobs at the plant until he quits, not because he hates the job, but because of the physical problems he suffers due to the massive violations the plant practiced in worker safety.

Another well known book is "the omnivores dilemma", by Pollen. In that book, he gives us the view of how it should be and introduces the nation to Polyface farms. Since that book, many a farm has changed over to the traditional ways.

I grew up on Long Island, had a wonder years upbringing and ate that factory crap for years before I got a clue. It's been about 20 years now, since I woke up. I am a man of very modest means. I am as far from wealthy as a person can be without being working poor. However, I also know that what I put into my body matters. So for the moment, I can afford to eat fresh produce from our farmers market and I can by grass fed beef, pork and chicken via the same sources.

I also grow my own veggies, harvest my own water and am in the process of digging my own root cellar.

Regardless of what people think, this is the path we will all have to travel very soon, not just the "paranoids" that the corporations like to label us.

No truer statement was ever said, "you are what you eat".

[femrap]

141. I hope this movie comes to my city

...I need to see this. Everyone needs to see this. I saw this movie featured on 'Now.'

[PGHBOOGER]

144. McDonald's Still Uses LARD

:grr: McDonald's still uses LARD (beef tallow) in their fries. They fry them in vegetable oil now, but coat them in beef tallow first to "preserve the unique McDonald's flavor". They lost a lawsuit several years ago when they claimed to use vegetable oil but omitted the beef tallow part. They LIED about it for years. Why don't we have a right to KNOW what is in our food, where it originated and how it is prepared???

[AllieB]

146. Beef tallow is better than the Omega 6 vegetable oils that they fry them in.

At least beef tallow comes from something. The vegetable oils that McD's use could just as well be used to clean appliances or lube your car.

[PGHBOOGER]

151. You're missing the point, Allie...

the point being, McDonald's LIED about what they were using in the preparation of their food. I am a VEGETARIAN. I don't want fries that are advertised as being fried in vegetable oil - only later to find out they are coated in BEEF TALLOW. If you're going to use beef tallow at least be honest about it, don't say you've switched to a "healthier, cholesterol-free" oil (which they did when they switched)... when you know full well you haven't. Why are big corporations allowed to lie like that for years... and then they only get a small slap on the wrist when they are caught???

[AllieB]

164. That's because our regulatory agencies aren't regulating.

Under Bush, the heads of these agencies were often lobbyists or board members of the companies that they were supposed to be regulating. It's disgusting that they can get away with not labeling foods, and you can't trace the ingredients back to the source.

[femrap]

148. I haven't eaten at McDonald's for

years....maybe over a decade now. Americans used to boycott...but today, they don't seem interested in that.

You just gotta put your money where your heart/soul is.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[PGHBOOGER]

153. Thank you femrap!

I've been boycotting McDonald's ever since I found out about the tallow, and it's been close to 10 years now! Like you, sometimes I think I'm the ONLY ONE who still believes in boycotting...

[Blue_Tires]

152. ttt

[condoleeza]

156. Very interesting information, thank you AllieB

We share some issues. Here is a thread that relates to yours: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5892739 where I wrote about my family experiences yesterday.

These people are killing us, as well as creating the illnesses that make the drug companies rich. Just one example is Nutrasweet (phenylalanine). Phenylalanine is produced naturally in our bodies and as such can pass through the blood brain barrier and interfere with the brain's uptake of melatonin and seratonin and what is the chemical antidote for too much phenylalanine? Prozac. How many people who take antidepressants also drink diet pop?

[AllieB]

159. Thank you for that link. I'm so sorry about your siblings and your health problems.

:hug:

This is why we need single payer healthcare now. BTW my sister has severe Lyme disease to the point that she can't work. Lyme disease is an epidemic in the Northeast, and no one talks about it. I wonder if environmental toxins are at play in some way here also.

[loyalkydem]

180. Okay

Where are you guys seeing this? Is it in theaters?

[AllieB]

182. It is in limited distribution.

http://www.magpictures.com/dates.aspx?id=3e3938d1-b785-4286-9ae0-8eb5952f1480