Why I am opposed to requiring people to purchase health insurance

[Atman]

Proponents of the Massachusetts model say that it is no different than requiring drivers to carry car insurance. But that is nonsense, for one very simple reason (we don't even have to discuss the success or failure of the idea in Massachusetts): you don't have a choice about being alive. Remember, suicide is illegal. So, legally, you can't even choose to opt out, while you can always decide to use public transportation or ride a bike instead of driving a car. It's just fundamentally unfair, it seems to me.

Rant off.

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[Party Person]

1. thats why I fight for public option nt

[Shrek]

2. Suicide is not illegal

There is no federal law prohibiting it, nor is it illegal in any of the 50 states.

[WeDidIt]

3. ATTEMPTED Suicide IS Illegal

But suicide itself is not.

What are they going to do to somebody who commits suicide, hang 'em?

[Shrek]

5. Which jurisdictions make attempted suicide illegal?

Can you provide a cite?

[WeDidIt]

6. Sorry, an old joke.

Attempted suicide itself is not legally defined as a crime.

However, any person who attempts suicide can be found by a judge to be a danger to themself and thus forcibly detained in a hospital for psychiatric care.

[quiller4]

12. Attempted suicide is no longer illegal in most jurisdictions.

Physician assisted suicide is now legal in two states with ballot initiatives pending in 4 more.

[Atman]

9. I stand corrected. But it's not really germane.

You still don't really have much choice. You had absolutely nothing to do with your birth, and the only option you have if you can't afford health government-mandated health insurance is to end your life. Seems a little harsh to me.

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[NYC_SKP]

4. A counter argument to your analogy.

Maybe a weak one, but here goes:

If the opt-outers could somehow pledge to never use hospitals or clinics or ambulances or anything else that we all ultimately pay into through out health plans...

...Then your point would be solid.

It does seem unfair, I cannot disagree.

What makes me feel less concerned is the possibility that whomever is required to purchase it will be financially able to, and if it's at a reasonable price I see little difference between this and witholding
SSI from earnings-- that's not voluntary either.

If we raise the fucking cap on SSI, we can put a lot toward free care for all.

Oh, and cut the crazy defense budget in half, then we'd have surpluses.

[lindisfarne]

10. Exactly. If we have programs to help those who cannot pay for health insurance, then if they opt out

they should be required to sign a document saying that if their ability to pay medical bills cannot first be verified, then they request no treatment. They should have to carry a document, renewed annually, stated what their "worth" is and if, in an emergency situation, the estimated cost of the care exceeded that cost, then they wouldn't get care.

Of course, this would never work because we would never deny emergency care.

I don't think there should be an opt-out option if there are programs to help those who cannot afford to pay. If someone fails to voluntarily pay, then there will be a fine on their taxes, equivalent to the cost of the public option, and this will automatically enroll them in the public option.

[lindisfarne]

7. Attempted (and successful suicide is LEGAL in OR & WA when certain medical conditions are met.

Does anyone know- is medical euthanasia considered "suicide" for the purpose of life insurance policies in those states (or at least the kind of suicide which would negate the insurer's requirement to pay)? One would hope not.

[Cresent City Kid]

8. The car insurance analogy is flawed as you say

One similarity though is the fact that there is no freedom at the buyer's end and too little cost control at the seller's end. In Louisiana when they passed their car insurance requirement the attitude was not "help the poor get insurance" it was "get 'em off the road." The penalties were incrementally stepped up to the point of impounding vehicles on the spot while little was done to regulate costs.

With health care, excessive compensation and profiteering are baked in to the cost of everything. Requiring us to sustain the unsustainable is not a solution.

[Vidar]

11. Riding a bicycle now because i can't afford gas & insurance, I appreciate your analogy.