Traveling in China 3 - Travel tips

[Locut0s]

So my final post from China. I'll start with some simple travel tips (some of these I pulled from the other posts):

Here are my previous 2 posts:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5825101
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5861547

-China has a very well developed tourism industry aimed mostly at internal tourism. Unfortunately a lot of "tourist" destinations are little more than excuses for peddlers to set up their stalls to hawk the usual knockoff wear you see in all the other street markets. As usual do your research and plan out the sites you want to visit carefully. If possible don't follow a tour group. The local tour groups are almost exclusively in Chinese and are often dull dull dull! Instead of elucidating a regions history and cultural heritage they are as likely to point out all the rock formations along the way that are shaped like various animals. That and they will take you to every trinket market along the way. Unless you can find a good foreign tour group I would avoid them like the plague as well, but that's just me. That and they will take you to the absolute worst restaurants! I like to blend into the culture I'm visiting and experience it from the inside, you won't be able to do that with any tour group.

-Taxis in China are usually very cheap compared to the west. Averaging something like 7RMB per kilometer. For those in the US that's about 1US dollar per 0.62 Miles. Good for getting from the airport to your hotel with your bags. For traveling inside major cities though the local buses are on the order of 1rmb per trip which us REALLY cheap.

-BROTP Bring your own toilet paper!! (Everywhere!)

-Get used to using squat toilets, it's not that bad once you get used to squatting and get over the smell :)

-Getting a HEP A and B vaccine is HIGHLY recommended! Trust me it will give you some peace of mind when eating out.

-Food will likely be one of the highlights of your trip. Expect to pay around 60RMB or so at a local restaurant for 4 or 5 dishes and 2 large beers (equal to 4 reg size beers). That's about $9 US for a good sized meal. Street food is also very good and cheap in most places. Expect to get the runs because as a westerner your GI tract is not used to the lower sanitary conditions here.

-One of the best ways to enjoy any city is to make a friend or two and have them take you out. The Chinese love to treat their friends to a night on the town. If you do this let them treat you! Though you should always offer to pay ultimately they will insist and usually you should give in to avoid insulting them.

-Hotels can be another bargain here. Avoid the large American chains as you will only pay too much. Also avoid the local large tourist joints. Try to find a hotel frequented by domestic businessmen. One suggestion I have is a chain called Ru Jia which is basically a copy of Best Western. Clean rooms, clean bathrooms, free internet, TV and the usual amenities. Expect to pay something on the order of 190RMB per night ($30US) for a double bed.

-Always be weary of frauds and scams. If something seems fishy it probably is. Also keep a close eye on your personal belongings at all times!!

-If you want to purchase some of the famous Chinese knockoffs (be it Rolex's, Prada bags or other trinkets) make sure to Haggle Haggle Haggle! Even the locals do. There is no such thing as a fixed price for these items. As soon as they see you are a foreigner they will jack up the price 3x or more. However don't haggle at malls, for street food or in restaurants!

-The country side offers some very beautiful scenery.

-Cities I recommend visiting. Shanghai (for sheer skyscraper goodness). Beijing and Xi'an for the BIG tourist sites. Dalian, Xiamen, Nanning for a clean almost Mediterranean like atmosphere.

[davidpdx]

1. I like your advice

I visited China with my wife in 2006 and we went to Bejing (we live in Korea). Everything is pretty cheap once you get there. The two things you have to be ready for is the fact that China is very dirty and there are lots of cars and bicycles (except for the bicycles Korea is pretty much the same). I remember one morning wondering out to buy a bottle of Coke and was at an crosswalk getting ready to cross a mainstreet. As I looked across the street and saw the number of bicyclists, I tried in vain to count how many just in that cluster (I think I counted 60). Also I would avoid street vendors completely. I don't eat street food here in Korea either (my wife does, but then again she's Korean and has the stomach of lead) as your taking a good chance of getting sick.

We had a great trip aside from it being way too short. I would have like to have about 2 more days just in Bejing (we were there for four nights five days).

[Locut0s]

5. Thanks! I bet the traffic isn't as bad in Korea. There are no hard and fast...

driving rules here in China. You just negotiate with the other drivers to get around. Want to go into oncoming traffic to pass? A O.K. Beyond getting a persistent case of diarrhea I have not gotten sick eating here. As a rule I stay away from some things though. Seafood is a no no. Nothing that looks like it has been siting out in the sun for a while. Nothing that isn't cooked on the spot. I stay away from any of the stuff that's been soaking in warm liquid for extended periods.

Post Olympics Beijing would be great to visit again just for all the venues they constructed.

P.S. What is the current mood in South Korea vis-a-vis North Korea? That's a story I've been keeping a close eye on and personally I'd be nervous living there! Most of what Kim Jong Ill says is just saber rattling but I wouldn't put the unthinkable past him either.

P.P.S What's life like living in Korea? How long have you lived there. Did you meet your wife there? What's it like looking at North American news and politics through the eyes of someone living outside the country?

[davidpdx]

11. Actually the mood here is pretty much the same as it always is

people take what is happening in stride. We have air raid drills about once a month, most people ignore them. The US Embassy sends a newsletter monthly and from time to time they remind us of the possibility that an evacuation could happen if war broke out and that we need to know where the meeting points are.

You are right, most of what he says and does are for the sake of attention. The first nuclear test did scare the hell out of me, but the second one didn't phase me much.

I've been here 5 1/2 years and met my wife here. Life here isn't too bad. Other then at work, I don't see westerners very often. We fix western food at home and shop at Costco (thank god for that) and I watch most of my entertainment the internet since TV here is so hit or miss.

Politics is always interesting to view here and the first year I was here the whole thing with Iraq was a big deal. The protests were pretty ugly (even though I agree with them, it's still hard seeing your own country trashed overseas). The general mood has been anger at Bush for the last 8 years (who would have guessed?). Koreans seemed to follow the 2008 election very closely and showed a high interest in even the primaries (though they were obviously confused how that worked). I think the election of Obama was really something that made Koreans happy, even though they didn't know much about him (they ran some pretty good documentaries on both Obama and McCain toward October and November on one of the major networks though).

I forgot to mention the whole US beef debacle, that was probably one of the lower points of the year. One of the Korea news networks started spreading lies about US beef which set off a bunch of protests against the government when they decided to resume US beef sales. My understanding is that the government only allowed cattle younger then 30 months to be sold within the country and that the inspection standards were raised quite a bit. The funny thing is when beef sales resumed, the stuff flew off the shelf and the price of both US beef and Korean beef went down. It appears it had nothing to do with the quality, but more or less protectionism and nationalism. The news network is now under investigation.

[JI7]

2. did that Ru Jia have squat toilets ?

squat toilets is probably the biggest issue i have with foreign travel. when i went to India i refused to use any. but they had enough of the regular ones at various places that it was ok. the hotels we stayed at had western toilets.

but i guess it's something i should get used to since i would love to do a lot of travel , especially to non tourist type places to actually get a feel of the culture.

nice to see that transportation is so cheap.

what do you think in terms of the freedoms people have ? china is still communist but they have opened up in the past few decades and are not like north korea and probably not even the soviet union including in the final years. i'm guessing the biggest concerns people have are education and jobs .

also, do a lot of people know english there ?

[Locut0s]

4. No most hotels do not have squat toilets. However...

One of the reasons that you see as many squat toilets as you do is a feeling (myth) that western style toilets are unsanitary since you are coming in contact with the same seat that so many other people's asses have touched. From a Chinese perspective so long as your skin doesn't come in contact with it it's out of site out of mind. Something that is hard to come to terms with as a westerner.

The Chinese people are for the most part as free as us westerners. With a few exceptions. Anything that even hints at political gatherings are snuffed out immediately. However aside from this people feel free to talk amongst themselves about just about any political topic that might come up. However being still a communist country they still control education and all forms of media so there is a fair amount of ignorance amongst the general populous. There are still plenty of communist propaganda posters and signs all over the place but the local populous pays no attention to these. By and large the Chinese have a mixed view of their government, most don't really want US style democracy and feel that they are doing a great job on the economy, but at the same time they don't trust much of the "party line". But You will find that a hell of a lot of those who are well educated are as up to date with current events and world politics as anyone else in the world.

One thing that you will find when you come here is that China has become 10x more capitalist than America. If you think the push to consume is bad in America, wait till you get here. It will suffocate you. At times it seems like EVERYTHING is about buy buy buy buy buy buy buy. The economy, until recently, was growing at such a pace that it was/is like being in one big construction site at times. Cities like Shanghai are turning over at a pace that seems like something out of the movies.

As for English there is a big push to teach the up and coming generation English to prepare them for the working world abroad. However as a rule no not many people speak much English beyond Hello, and How are you.

[Old and In the Way]

3. Enjoyed reading your posts.

This is the 1st one I came across, but read your previous entries as well. I've been going to China off and on since the early 90's. I'm always amazed at the speed of change there in development/redevelopment. I've pretty much only been to Southern China (Zhongshan/Zuhai/Guangzhou/DongGuan/Shenzhen), but the picture you paint seems to be consistent with the South as well. Spent most of my time in Zhongshan. A "small" city of 2-3 million and old, in terms of the pre-industrial boom, it is quite beautiful, relative to many newer industrial hubs. It's much easier today to travel around China than it was 20 years ago, lots of people have learned English and I've found Chinese people to be very friendly and very capitalist. I've yet to meet a true Communist there. Toughest thing for me is the food....definitely not your typical American Chinese food menu. I try to stay clear of any forays into the country for local dinners.

Biggest downside is the pollution, both air and land. Hardly ever see the sun unless you get monsoon like conditions that cleans out the air pollution for a day or two afterwards. I asked a friend about the various 1/2 mountains you see in Southern China - she told me that they are used to make bricks and roads. And trash dumps seem to be everywhere. I do think that's probably going to change as people are getting more conscious about their environment degradation. I also hope that cheap electric vehicles are encouraged. Way too many 2 cycle motorbikes needing ring jobs there, as well as the noise that millions of these bikes create.

[Locut0s]

6. Agreed on most points. I actually am talking about the south...

of China currently. Currently in Nanning and it doesn't get more south than that. Very nice city, could definitely see living here under different circumstances. As for the food, well I'm 1/2 Chinese and have grown up eating Chinese food cooked by my mother so the adjustment for me isn't as drastic ;) I've grown up knowing there there are few good "American Chinese" restaurants outside the "Chinatowns" of the big cities. However there is much on the menu I too won't touch. Seafood is something I've never enjoyed. And as far as offal well that's something I'll leave to the "connoisseurs".

As for capitalist the culture here is 10x more capitalist than America it seems at times almost suffocatingly so.

Yes pollution is a big problem here. The people are aware of it but the general push to "raise all boats" is so strong that the issue is unfortunately not even on the back burner yet. It saddens me to think of what is going to happen here in China as the world goes through the ecological and environmental bottleneck we are headed for. Not that it will be pretty in the West either.

[Locut0s]

7. bump

[Locut0s]

8. Another thing to keep in mind about the culture here is...

the ancient system of Chinese medicine, non scientific though it may be, still holds a lot of weight in this culture. So while modern hospitals here are by and large almost as good as those overseas people still hold on to beliefs of humors, hot and cold energies, bodily poisons and much else. Which is not to say that people won't call "911" when they cut a finger off. But it does help to explain the continued popularity of many traditional medicines, healing practices, and culinary traditions we in the west might shrink away from.

[Jazzgirl]

10. I have found your writings about China extremely interesting.

I was raised in Springfield, Missouri and we had friends from China that owned a very well-known restaurant there. The father developed cancer (supposedly terminal). He went back to China for a year and came back. He lived for another 30 years. I still see his wife whenever I go back for a visit because their restaurant is my favorite. :-)

[Suich]

9. Interesting post, Locut0s!

Thanks!



:hi:

[Skittles]

12. LOL - um, sorry

this part AIN'T happening

Get used to using squat toilets, it's not that bad once you get used to squatting and get over the smell

[Locut0s]

13. Hehe yeah. You really do get used to it after a while though. But maybe that's because...

I've always found it easy for me to accept so many foreign things? And indeed I even have a drive within myself to accept those things that I have at first sight trouble doing so.

[JI7]

14. i think it's easier for guys than for women

since you don't actually have to squat all the time . and it's usually urine that is harder to hold .

i do understand what you said earlier about them seeing it as being more sanitary since you aren't touching where someone else sat . but i think once you get used to western toilets it's harder to use the squat ones, whereas if you are used to squat toilets it's not that hard to use the western toilets (other than maybe being squeamish about someone else having sat there).

[JI7]

15. what do you think is worth shopping for and buying in China ?

i mean something you can't get in the United States. or something you can get for much cheaper there. i don't mean crap like what is sold at walmart that you might be able to get for even cheaper in China.

i mean good quality stuff that has to do with China ? i'm guessing Jade might be one of them. art work and tea maybe.

[Locut0s]

18. Interesting question and one that is hard to answer. Let me see...

There is really nothing you can get in the US that you can't get in China. One thing you will notice in China is there there are two or three separate economies at work here. Each aimed at a separate distinct income level. There are the shops that cater to the wealthy locals and wealthy travelers that sell genuine Prada bags, diamond necklaces and the like and you can expect to pay an arm and a leg for this stuff. Then there are the stores that cater to the middle class selling cloths, jewelry, watches, cell phones and the like, all quite trendy looking. You won't find a lot of western brands in these stores, instead most of the stuff sold here will be local brands, which is not to say of bad quality. You will be disappointed if you are looking for anything "Chinese looking" when shopping here as most of the fashion trends mimic those in the west with the exception of shorter skirt lengths and odder sounding English phrases on shirts. The rest of the stores tend to be dusty convenience like stores selling all manner of odds and ends from clothing to toiletries, these are usually the cheapest and most authentically "Chinese" seeming. Then of course there are the famous knockoff stalls selling fake Rolexes, fake jade, fake prada, fake pens, fake everything. These can be fun to shop at but you aren't going to find anything beyond conversation pieces to be bought there. That Rolex watch with two xxs in it for example ;)

When it comes to purchasing local made products like jade, jewelry, silk, wood carvings and the like I can't help you a lot except to say this, expect to spend a lot on this stuff. There is a very large internal market for things uniquely Chinese like authentic jades, hand carved wood, and the like. The rich here love to decorate their homes with authentic and expensive national art. To this end you will be shocked at the price you can pay for some of this stuff. Probably the best thing would be to research this kind of thing if you are looking for something authentic. Any of the local tour groups will undoubtedly take you to trinket shops where you can purchase examples of the local jade,silk,tea, (whatever the specialty of the region is). These shops are ok places to pick up small samples of jade jewelry and the like at OK prices.

One thing I can recommend if you like it is to pick up some good quality tea while you are here. There are some wonderfully delicious teas to be purchased here that you couldn't get back home. Make sure you know how to brew it though as many teas require a complicated several step brewing process to extract the best flavor.

[HamdenRice]

16. I'd add: Don't drink the water -- EVER, anywhere

Don't even brush your teeth with it. The Chinese know this and always provide boiled water -- either as tea, or as just hot water in a hot water flask.

Boiled water is safe. Tap water will give you the worst stomach problems imaginable and they won't go away for a long time.

[Locut0s]

19. Ditto, Yes this is important to know. There is a reason EVERYONE is carrying bottle watter!!

[JPZenger]

17. k and r

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

20. You should stick this stuff in your journal.

I don't need it now, but I probably will in six months and I'd like to be able to find it again.