Kucinich

[Mari333]

http://kucinich2012.com/

[saltpoint]

1. I love Dennis Kucinich but I ask why in his second run for the presidency

he did not significantly modify his failed first approach.

There remains a huge divide between the high emotional IQ of a dedicated and perceptive man like Kucinich and the fact that he very likely could not win a statewide ballot in his home state.

You can't run for president on that demographic split and expect a good result.

[mmonk]

3. Sometimes, it's hard to get a lot in in the alloted six minutes

of debate from candidates the media aren't choosing for the people.

[saltpoint]

6. Agree. There's no defending the debate formats of recent primaries.

Also there is even less defense of the mainstream media's treatment of candidates like Carol Moseley Braun and Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel.

All strong champions of mine. The conversations I've had in my life with many of their supporters are truly keeper conversations. I've made a handful of very close friends among those candidates' supporters.

But I remain puzzled by DK's decision not to modify his electoral strategy. He is reaching the reliable core of his supporters but the incline of what's stacked against him is very, very sharp.

[mmonk]

9. I noticed he traveled more this last time.

[saltpoint]

10. Very likely, and that part was good.

I think Kucinich needs to align with some heavy-hitting, fat-wallet venture socialists. I don't know how many of that sort of folk are out there, but there are a few.

I wrote an early letter to Congressman Kucinich in 2003 urging him to run for the presidency. John Kerry had the nomination sewn up by the time my state voted in the 2004 primaries; I cast my vote for DK; I felt he could stir the same blood in the voting demographic as Paul Wellstone.

There is something yet missing in the organization focus of DK's campaigns. I don't know exactly what it is or what specific components would address it, but it is keeping him from becoming more a more formidable opponent.

His voice remains viable and strong and persuasive, but it is going out to only a few hundred people at a time on a given night of campaigning. He needs a taller soapbox and a louder megaphone.

[mmonk]

13. What do you think if he built a grassroots internet structure

ala Dean or like Obama orginally? Then used it in an organizing matter rather than just general fundraising?

[saltpoint]

15. It would be a boost, I'd guess. It will take some bucks (which is where

the venture socialists come in) and some serious internet cyberroots coordination.

It wouldn't hurt to hire Dean himself to run the campaign, in fact. That would get some people's attention.

The rightwing corporate media has no use for Kucinich except as someone they try to bully all the time. They do it because they can. DK has no electoral base to form a movement of objection against ABC News, for example. They treat him dismissively as if he is a source of irritation. They play their "realist" card in a way that has more to do with the way school kids behave on playgrounds than it does with how actual adults confront and solve problems.

His supporters like him because he tells the truth. Then they like him more because he tells it from the heart and mind. Last, they love him to death because it's clear ABC News hates his guts.

Labor, for example, knows Kucinich is a direct and true advocate for the working class household. They know they would fare well under his leadership. What is disconnecting between DK and his likely support groups is a mechanism for victory. I think if Kucinich could persuade his natural constituencies that he could win a white-knuckled pragmatic strategy ground war, their support of him would be less fluid.

Last, there may be only token challenge to Obama in 2012 if he remains popular. Certainly the Pukes are looking at a very thin bench for nominees to challenge him. If there are no major bad steps by Obama and if voters continue to perceive that his effort to govern is sincere and effective, they'll see little incentive to fire him and hire anybody else, no matter which party.

Kucinich needs to develop an almost revolutionary system to change the forces aligned against him. He's one of the tallest minds we've ever had. He's a fighter and he tells the truth.

[sce56]

64. I know exactly what is missing in his campaigns!

A real honest MEDIA that doesn't marginalize the good candidates while boosting corporate darling candidates!

[saltpoint]

74. True. True for a Wellstone or a Kucinich and true for the rest of us, too.

[nxylas]

26. I agree

His policies and ideas are first-rate, but his campaign sucked. Yes, I know the M$M didn't treat all candidates equally, as they should have, but even within the limits imposed on him, I think his campaign could have been much better. Not falling into the elephant trap about the UFO would have been a good start, as would actually posting on the forums on his own website from time to time instead of channeling everything through the admins, who appeared to have little actual contact with DK.

[tekisui]

35. I thought he made many improvements.

No better hard results, but he was more impassioned. His speech at the DNC was damn near performance art. HE has learned how to better rally the crowds. But, he still has so much working against him.

I welcome his presence, even if in the end his only success is to move the debate to the left. Even if it's just a little.

[saltpoint]

75. I think of DK as an unqualified success in ideology, passion, and position,

but just keep looking around for that mechanism by which he gets his message to critical mass.

[w8liftinglady]

45. I would campaign as fiercely as I did this time

tough sell in Central Texas,but I tried

[saltpoint]

76. Shame on Central Texas for not listening more respectfully.

As Kucinich, Howard Dean, and others have suggested, the electorate sometimes votes against its own interests.

And in some parts of the country, that percentage is a lot higher than in others.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

52. He did well in 2004 in states where the local supporters used guerrilla campaign tactics

I don't know what happened in 2008. There were several of us (in Minnesota, at least) just waiting for the word from campaign headquarters to restart the campaign. The woman who had chaired the Minnesota campaign even approached the Kucinich headquarters but never heard back. Other Kucitizens from around the country with whom I am in e-mail contact reported the same.

I did not hear from anyone on the campaign till about a week before Dennis dropped out.

My guess is that the campaign was sabotaged from within, that there were people in the office who put on a good face but somehow "lost" names of volunteers. Sad to say, I don't think Dennis kept close enough tabs on the campaign and when he realized what was happening, he shut down his effort.

If I had been running the campaign, I would have contacted the 2004 campaign chairs in states where Dennis did well and ask them what they did that worked. Then I would have sent packets out to volunteers around the country.

An important factor in Minnesota was putting pressure on the media, which were covering closed fund-raising sessions with the "approved" candidates and ignoring four-digit crowds that Dennis was drawing.

Just for instance.

But I think there was something rotten at campaign headquarters in 2008, because why wouldn't one repeat the techniques that were successful before?

[saltpoint]

77. Hi, LL. I love your insights on the grassroots operations. I wish I knew

what happened.

It is a dreary and depressing thought to imagine a political campaign with snow at its source being polluted "from within," if that is what might have taken place. I do accept that politics is essentially a knife fight in a dark alley but at the same time, our best instincts want good people to prosper.

D K is one of the good guys.

[dorkulon]

63. Kucinich isn't running to win, IMHO

He's running to keep reality somewhere in the mix. He's a gadfly.

I don't mean to diminish him--I tend to vote for gadflies, at least in the primary.

[saltpoint]

78. He succeeded in sharply focusing the urgency of issues, with a strong

left tilt.

I think he was demonstrably successful in that endeavor. He means what he says and the people who listen to him aren't there for sport. They're there for their children and their children's children.

What is working against Kucinich in a presidential campaign tends to highlight his natural virtues. The more Ted Koppel is a sanctimonius jerk to DK and Carol Mosely Braun in the 04 primary, the more certain and true and necessary DK and CMB are to the process.

What's missing is the mechanism that shuts Koppel up and advances DK's voice in the public forum.

[queenofcups]

82. But if we think that way, we only end up with candidates

who are middle-of-the-road bland, so as not to disturb anyone's sense of compacency. Sorry, but Kucinich should at least TRY to run. Not running will guarantee 100% that he'll not become POTUS.

[ProSense]

2. What are the chances that

Kucinich will endorse Obama's second term?

[Mari333]

4. I dont know

but I will write him in if he doesnt run.

[Joe the Liberal]

5. Maybe, but I think Obama will be a 2 term pres....

unless he totally drops the ball.

[Mind_your_head]

7. Obama ASKED us to "hold his feet to the fire"......I think we should do that......

It's in all of our best interests. Obama desires/NEEDS the "power of the people" to push forward the things/changes that we desire! So, let's "give it to him (them)....in DROVES!!!!

[Toasterlad]

61. Funny How When He Was Campaigning He Promised to Be a LEADER...

...and now that he's President, we have to "hold his feet to the fire". Interesting.

[Hotler]

11. Let me know when he picks the ball up.

That is all.

[LWolf]

66. Hear, hear. nt

[tan guera]

38. IMO

He's already dropped the ball.

If I could start a thread, I'd entitle it "Dean." Why not? He's already got the netroots and by now knows how to run and campaign. I love Dennis, but I also love Howard and think Howard can successfully challenge Obama, whom I fully suspect will not have us even close to ending wars in the ME.

[Horse with no Name]

8. It is what we need

:)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. What?! A candidate not devoted to the status quo and politics-as-usual!!

He's an upstart! A non-conformist! A troublemaker!

He'll get my vote in 2012.

[dweller]

14. Third times a charm !

Go DK !

:kick:

dp

[frog92969]

16. I hope he goes for it!

And I hope I'm allowed to vote for him this time.

[flvegan]

17. Looking forward to voting for him again.

[bvar22]

18. Dennis !

Dennis is a Co-Signer of HR676, and an active campaigner for Medicare for ALL.

Dennis also voted "NO" on Obama's request for $100Billion to keep the Wars/Occupations going, even AFTER significant arm twisting from Obama and Rahm.

Dennis for President!

”Unlike the other candidates, I am not funded by those corporate interests.
I owe them no loyalty, and they have no influence over me or my policies.” ---Dennis Kucinich

[Dragonfli]

19. A good man! SINCERE in his fight for change. K&R

Most importantly he has not sold his soul to the corporate masters of the centrist republicans that pretend to be centrist Democrats.

[azul]

21. What disturbs me most is the attacks on DK.

Do so many people not realize that he stands most steadfast in his support for the constitution and the rule of law?

Showing disrespect for DK's principles and integrity is ignorantly tearing away at the foundations of this USA. Don't they hear what he is saying at all, or are their minds closed?

[Dragonfli]

22. Their Minds are Closed and their hearts are easily distracted

by "The Power of Personality"
or the "Personality of power" like the supporters of "the leader" in this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qsqLegE1zQ

[Individualist]

37. They do realize; that's why DLC detests him.

He's the antithesis of everything DLC stands for.

[Toasterlad]

20. RIght Now, Kucinich Is the Only Possible Candidate I Could Vote For In 2012.

Unless another progressive candidate who supports full equality for all Americans appears, Dennis it is. I can't imagine voting for Obama unless a miracle happens.

[UrbScotty]

44. President Palin thanks you

[tan guera]

50. Not if we stick together.

[frylock]

57. she can also thank the milquetoast republican-lite wing of the democratic party while she's at it..

that shit doesn't fly anymore. the progressive community helped to get Obama elected. if Obama isn't elected to a second term, he has only himself, the pink tutu dems, and their enablers to thank.

[Toasterlad]

60. No, She'll Thank YOU.

You can blame teh gays all you like for finally refusing to vote against our own interests after decades of doing so. But don't expect us to meekly accept the blame for yet another blown election. We've let you drive for years, and year after year, you've made us sit in the back of the bus, when you weren't throwing us under it. Well, from now on, we're driving our own bus. You can follow us to more progressive climes, or you can keep voting for republican-lite. Either way, what happens next is your own fault, not ours.

[waiting for hope]

72. Again, didn't you get the memo?

You would be more credible if you gave a reason based on his policies and politics than trowing out Palin every time someone posts something you don't agree with.

[cascadiance]

49. I'd take a ticket with Kucinich, Dean, or Sanders on it...

Maybe even Nader, though Nader I think would need to change his strategy in a major way to be looked on as someone helping the situation and not being a "spoiler"...

All of these folks could help if as a block they would unite with other progressives and demand that instant runoff voting and public campaign financing be put in place to offer voters more of a choice of candidates representing people and not corporate special interests. And that is the only way they'd back off from being "spoilers" in the coming elections, if legislation were put in place so that they would be looked on as more of a tool for progressives than a spoiler that would be attributed to helping the GOP then.

[L0oniX]

23. If I ever vote again it will be for Kucinich. n/t

[Dawgs]

24. Oh shit!!

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[mopinko]

42. +1

give me a break.

[kjackson227]

70. +2

[Echo In Light]

25. Let's not allow corporate America, and its obedient supporters, to deem him "unelectable" again

I mean, I don't actually hold out much hope that a DK campaign could have much effect within the current climate of imposed M$M views and empire-friendly opinions, but it's always good to see him try!

Go DK!

[NeedleCast]

27. Pass

[Eyerish]

28. He'll get my vote...

One of the only members of Congress that truly cares about the People.

[glitch]

29. Excellent, we need him. K & R nt

[Mari333]

31. just throwing some actual "HOPE" out there. nt

[G_j]

30. he'll have my vote again, nt

[WI_DEM]

32. Good! he can run fourth in the Ohio primary again.

I really doubt DK will challenge President Obama anyway. Also, Bill Clinton, who gave us DADT, Welfare REform, NAFTA, & DOMA wasn't challenged in '96, why do you think that Obama will be?

[ima_sinnic]

33. I will be voting for him in 2012

if necessary, I will write his name in. I will not be fooled by change™ again.

people who do not subscribe to Harper's should beg, borrow, or steal the current issue (July) for "Barack Hoover Obama: the best and the brightest blow it again." We've been had.

[glinda]

40. Be careful! We do NOT want any Republicans in there at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Soylent Brice]

34. is awesome.

[Kingofalldems]

36. Freepers and disruptors hate Kucinich

That makes me like him even more, even tho I don't agree with him always. But as a loyal Dem he should have a seat at the table and command respect.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. So do Republican Lites

He (along with many other Progressive Caucus types) exposes them for the weasels they are.

I just finished watching American Blackout on DVD, in which Cynthia McKinney plays a central role. Yeah, yeah, she's anathema to the "moderate" (i.e. Republican Lite) Democrats, but even though they like to call her "crazy," she came across as one of the sanest people in Washington, one who actually DID what we have often wished other Dems would do, such as taking off after Rumsfeld in committee hearings and not letting him off the hook, reducing him to a stammering pile of jello with questions about no-bid contracts to disreputable firms.

If she's crazy, we need a few hundred more of that kind of "crazy."

[fascisthunter]

39. looking forward to it!!!!

[Bushknew]

41. Was my first choice to beign with, K&R

[reggie the dog]

43. more like 2016

I think the incumbent Democratic president will probably get the nomination in 2012.

[Fire Walk With Me]

46. Love me some Dennis.

[dreamnightwind]

47. Support Dennis!

No more Corporadems, or Conservadems, DINO's, whatever, but Dennis is one of the few that has proven he's interested in true reform, not reform that only benefits the corporate agenda.

I was shocked at how little support Dennis got here on DU last election. In the primaries, there's no reason to support a corporate-owned phony (unless, of course, you like corporate-owned phonies).

The last 6 months has proved to me, more than ever, that we have to work against the flow, support candidates for REAL change. The bones they allow the corporate Dems to throw us don't taste very good, and aren't very nutritious either. This nation is going to hell, and now in solid Dem hands, it's pretty much on the same path. Time for a real progressive change.

edited for spelling

[DutchLiberal]

48. K&R. But as long as the MSM continues to paint him as a radical...

...he's got no chance at all.

He would be considered mainstream in Dutch politics. Not everybody would agree with him, but nobody would think of him as a radical. Which he isn't. Oh, and you don't need hundreds of billions of dollars in corporate support to buy your way into politics in our system, so he would actually be able to have a shot at the highest office.

[tan guera]

51. The ÇMWs will have to give him face time

if he garners huge support, like Dean did, from the netroots.

A lot of folks are gonna be itching for s/o to give them real hope, after 4 years of Obama.

[clear eye]

71. Does Rosetta Stone make a Dutch language version? n/t

[BumRushDaShow]

54. When I watched DK

stand up for 4 hours to read 35 articles of impeachment in Congress after invoking privilege, I was sold. However he dropped out before the PA primary and directed his supporters to support Obama.

IMHO, I think that he is more powerful as a voice in the position that he is in currently. His "Wake up America" speech at the DNC convention is a historic classic that so aptly expressed the populist outrage at what has happened to our country, and was done so effectively as a member of the "people's" house of government.

[man4allcats]

55. Dennis has really always been The Man.

He was my choice in '08, and though I voted for Obama and don't regret it, I will support Dennis again if he chooses to run.

[varelse]

56. I'll vote for him

in the primary anyway.

[Mike 03]

58. I used to love the guy too, but not now.

He's lost it.

It was so embarrassing to watch him last week interrogate Ken Lewis.

He was reading the questions like he had never seen them before, and he kept reading them during his second round, and he didn't listen to a single word anyone else said.

Love ya, Dennis, but, sorry. Bye Bye.

[liberation]

59. I have to ask, how much is BofA paying these days...

.

[G_j]

62. there are countess examples in videos of DK

kicking major butt and telling the truth, where nobody else will.

He won't be kissing Ken Lewis's ass any time soon.

[Mike 03]

65. I know, but sometimes intelligence needs to prevail over anger. NT

[LWolf]

67. He's earned my support.

Whenever he needs it, he's got it.

[ProgressIn2008]

68. Nice idea, but big money will make sure there's no real change in this country.

[realisticphish]

69. I'm lukewarm

I'm with him on, say, 90% of the issues. And he's certainly a nice guy (I've met him several times). But... I dunno. I just can't get behind him as a leader. I'll pay attention to a campaign, certainly, and I'll definitely give him a chance. But I'm also not giving up on Obama, either.

[queenofcups]

83. He's not just 'nice,' he is a brilliant person...I saw him speak at

a green fest two years ago. He isn't as tall as past Presidents, and he looks like an elf. This is the unconscious reason I believe people don't take him seriously; even some progressives. I have heard Democrats actually mention his looks. We deserve the leaders we get.

[Michigan-Arizona]

73. He was my choice as well

I can do whatever is needed here in Tucson, Arizona & can get some help from family & friend's back in Michigan to do their part there.

[bigwillq]

79. He has my support!

:bounce:

[babydollhead]

80. kick

[G_j]

81. kick

[tritsofme]

84. LOL, too funny. And you thought he was viewed as irrelevent in 2008?

You ain't seen nothing yet.

Regardless, I'm sure this is nothing but noise making by some supporters that wouldn't know what to do with themselves if there isn't a Kucinich campaign to attend every four years.

I am confident that from early on Kucinich will fully support and endorse the President's reelection efforts.

[Yukari Yakumo]

87. He *was* irrelevent in 2008. And moreso now.

With Chimpy gone, who's gonna give a flying fuck about Kuch now? Aside from his small cult of personality, that is.

[ZombieHorde]

89. Which of his stances you not support? nt

[Yukari Yakumo]

85. laugh

It's clear Kuch has nothing to do with that site.

We're not even 6 months into the current President's first term, and yet someone puts up this dumb shit? The person(s) who made it is probably a whining little worm who'll never be satisfied because things aren't turning out 100% they way they though it would.

Or a Repuke using a divide and conquer strategy.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

86. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours