Ahmadinejad won. Get over it.

[jeanpalmer]

Without any evidence, many U.S. politicians and “Iran experts” have dismissed Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s reelection Friday, with 62.6 percent of the vote, as fraud.

They ignore the fact that Ahmadinejad’s 62.6 percent of the vote in this year’s election is essentially the same as the 61.69 percent he received in the final count of the 2005 presidential election, when he trounced former President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani. The shock of the “Iran experts” over Friday’s results is entirely self-generated, based on their preferred assumptions and wishful thinking.

Like much of the Western media, most American “Iran experts” overstated Mir Hossein Mousavi’s “surge” over the campaign’s final weeks. More important, they were oblivious — as in 2005 — to Ahmadinejad’s effectiveness as a populist politician and campaigner. American “Iran experts” missed how Ahmadinejad was perceived by most Iranians as having won the nationally televised debates with his three opponents — especially his debate with Mousavi.

Before the debates, both Mousavi and Ahmadinejad campaign aides indicated privately that they perceived a surge of support for Mousavi; after the debates, the same aides concluded that Ahmadinejad’s provocatively impressive performance and Mousavi’s desultory one had boosted the incumbent’s standing. Ahmadinejad’s charge that Mousavi was supported by Rafsanjani’s sons — widely perceived in Iranian society as corrupt figures — seemed to play well with voters

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23745.html

[cali]

1. posted and re-posted and now re-posted again.

This is at least a couple of days old.

[AngryAmish]

2. 2 days old and debunked

[JackRiddler]

12. Really? "Debunked"

Why don't you show where that happened?

And "2 days old" is a rather weak objection. You can't get it on Twitter, either.

[Ian David]

3. You forgot to add, "Death to the infidel!" n/t

[hobbit709]

4. Redenbacher or Act II?

[ejpoeta]

5. The problem with some of the statements from people here is this...

even if he won legitimately, the transparency isn't there and it's hard to prove. Not to us, but to the people who feel they've been cheated. This isn't about us, it's about all those people who voted for the other guy. What WE think isn't really relevant, frankly. It's not like we are a beacon on this. And we like to stick our noses in everyone else's business and then wonder why we end up making things worse.

In the end, as far as we are concerned, either would make little difference because the same person is in charge behind the curtain. It would be nice to have a fresh face to try to talk to, but we don't get to make those decisions. And I think we would not be too happy if some other country tried to tell us what to do, either.

[malaise]

8. My question is WTF does it have to do with anyone in the US

The US does not own or rule this planet.

[ejpoeta]

15. the problem is.... that there amany in this country that do that we are in charge

and get to boss everyone else around. not realizing that this is precisely WHY we have such a high defense budget and deficit. We are so busy trying to police the world, when we aren't even taking care of our stuff right here. it's insane.

[PVnRT]

25. Obama is wisely keeping the US out of it

save for denouncing the violent crackdown efforts. Beyond that, for one, there are plenty of Iranians living in this country, many of whom voted in this election, and, two, there are plenty of individuals in this country who would prefer to see things like organic democracy movements take root around the world without U.S. bombs.

[Teaser]

6. So do you revolutionary guard types get health benefits?

.

[stray cat]

7. There are massive numbers of Iranians that disagree with you and are getting killed or beaten.

Of course maybe they just are all suicidal? :sarcasm: They sure are showing alot more courage than people in the US who just post on web sites.

[grannie4peace]

10. amen!!!!!!

[Wind Dancer]

11. Thank you! n/t

[goclark]

14. They are showing a lot more guts than we did with GW when

we knew he did not win.

[myrna minx]

27. .

:thumbsup:

[grannie4peace]

9. I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!!!

[hlthe2b]

13. Politico BS Neocon Propaganda: what is OP's purpose...

as this has been posted, reposted, and debunked multiple times? HMMMMM?

[havocmom]

31. OP & like minded bots using technique taught to GOP pols by Newt Gingrich

and HE got the lesson plans from Goebbels. Gist: 'Keep saying what you want believed until people believe it.'

That crap doesn't seem to be selling in Iran. If they aren't buying it, why should we?

How many more reposts of this hooey do you suppose DU will witness? Perhaps we could make it a poll and everyone can pick a number? ;)

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

16. Yes, he did!!!

Whether by popular vote, or corruption, or just coercion of the announcement process by the supreme ayatollah or whoever is the president's boss, Ahmadinejad is the "winner and still president".

Eventually, the supreme leadership will cease to be amused by the hooligans in green, and will call out the military to crush them.

I don't think we'll see a regime change any time soon.

:hi:

[backscatter712]

38. They did call out the military, and the military refused orders to put the greens down.

The fit's really hitting the shan now...

[ThomWV]

17. In 2000 we were told "Bush Won, get over it"

I remember but I did not get over it.

[robcon]

18. Anyone who "accepts" Ahmadinejad's numbers is naive, IMO.

The vote-counting was fraudulent.

[mmonk]

21. So is anyone who thinks we aren't heavily involved in Iran.

[Odin2005]

23. If the CIA is helping the good side more power to them.

It would be redemption for the BS we pulled in 1953.

[mmonk]

29. The key is to let it be organic and not to advance particular agendas.

Probably some of the $400 million targeted to destabilize the government should go on temporary hold as to not come back and actually bite us in the ass and backfire or those with legitimate protest.

[Douglas Carpenter]

30. the U.S has supported some paramilitary groups and exile groups. But I don't know of any evidence

that the U.S. has any significant involvement with the on-the-ground pro-democracy movement that we are currently witnessing.

As Stephen Zunes*, a staunch critic of American Middle policy and longtime supporter of better relations with Iran, said in his article on alternet:

" Congress in recent years has approved millions of dollars in funding to support various Iranian opposition groups to promote “regime change.” However, most of these groups are led by exiles who have virtually no following within Iran or any experience with the kinds of grassroots mobilization necessary to build a popular movement that could threaten the regime's survival. By contrast, most of the credible opposition within Iran has renounced this U.S. initiative and has asserted that it has simply made it easier for the regime to claim that all pro-democracy groups and activists are paid agents of the United States.

In an effort to head off such a popular uprising and discredit pro-democracy leaders and their supporters, Iran's reactionary leadership has been making false claims, aired in detail in a series of television broadcasts beginning in 2007, that certain Western nongovernmental organizations that have given workshops and offered seminars for Iranian pro-democracy activists on the theory and history of strategic nonviolent struggle are actually plotting with the U.S. government to overthrow the regime. On several occasions, Iranian authorities have arrested and tortured these activists, forcing them to sign phony confessions allegedly confirming these allegations.

Some Western bloggers and other writers, understandably skeptical of U.S. intervention in oil-producing nations in the name of "democracy," have actually bought into these claims by Iran's hardline clerics that prominent nonviolent activists from Europe and the United States -- most of whom happen to be highly critical of U.S. policy toward Iran -- are somehow working as U.S. agents. These conspiracy theories have in turn been picked up by some progressive websites and periodicals, which repeat them as fact. Unfortunately, such accusations do little more than strengthen the hand of Iran's repressive regime, weaken democratic forces inside the country, and strengthen the argument of U.S. neoconservatives that only U.S. intervention -- and not nonviolent struggle by the Iranian people themselves -- is capable of freeing the county.

Historically, individuals and groups with experience in effective mass nonviolent mobilization tend to come from the left and carry a skeptical view of government power, particularly governments with a history of militarism and conquest. Conversely, large bureaucratic governments used to projecting political power through military force or elite diplomatic channels have little understanding or appreciation of mass popular struggles. As a result, the dilemma for U.S. policy-makers is that the most realistic way to democratize Iran is through a process the United States cannot control.

The U.S. government has historically promoted regime change through military invasions, coups d'etat and other kinds of violent seizures of power by an undemocratic minority. Nonviolent "people power" movements, by contrast, promote regime change through empowering pro-democratic majorities. Unlike fomenting a military coup or supporting a military occupation, which are based upon control over the population and repression of potential political opponents, nonviolent civil insurrections -- as a result of being based upon a broad coalition of popular movements -- are virtually impossible for an outside power to control.

In any case, the Obama administration does not seem to be very interested in promoting such a “people power” revolution."

Stephen Zunes* is a professor of Politics and chair of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of San Francisco and serves as a senior policy analyst for Foreign Policy in Focus.

http://www.alternet.org/world/140639/iran%27s_stolen_election_has_sparked_an_uprising_--_what_should_the_u.s._do/?page=entire

[armyowalgreens]

19. "He won...get over it" Where have we heard that before...

[Buzz Clik]

20. So, jeanpalmer lays this bullshit, and then never tends to the thread. Troll. Period.

[Douglas Carpenter]

22. Ideological blindness mixed with childish naivete can bamboozle even very bright people just as much

as nationalistic fervor and the politics of fear,

I think there are some people who hold the worldview that the world is neatly divided between those who support American Imperium and hegemony and those who oppose American Imperium and hegemony. This sort of ideologue tends to have a, "you are either with us or you are with the Imperialist" attitude. It is a highly naive, simplistic and dangerous worldview, to say the least.

Also, there are some people who are quite legitimately deeply suspicious of any take on anything coming out of the American media. Sometimes, such people can be a bit reflexive and fail to judge situations individually.

I say all of this as someone who is deeply involved with the Middle East and highly critical of American policy in the region.

The vast majority of even the fiercest critics of American policy in the region know that something about this election smells awfully fishy. Juan Cole, Robert Fisk, Stephen Zunes and almost all critics of American Middle East policy and opponents of attacks on Iran and long time supporters of negotiations and better relations with Iran, whether with Ahmadinejad or anyone else, agree that this election was completely riddled with obvious fraud. They also know that Ahmadinejad is no friend of the forces of justice, peace and progress in the Middle East and the world.

[Odin2005]

24. Very Bushist sentiment.

[calico1]

26. Right....

Just like people should have gotten "over it" when Bush "won" in 2000 and 2004, right?

Sounds like you did.

[Malikshah]

28. Nothing like a "stick and move" Post. Let a nasty one rip and then leave

Cowardly and tiresome.

[BolivarianHero]

32. No.

I will not trust anything that comes from that fucking theocracy. You know how many socialists Khomeini and his goons stabbed in the back following the revolution?

[joeybee12]

33. Let's see, they use ONLY paper ballots and they announced the winner an HOUR after polls closed?

Yup, ballots....millions of them that had to be counted by hand were miraculously counted within an hour. Oh, and Mousavi lost the vote in his hometown.

[Juche]

34. Several things are wrong with your article

1. Ahmadinejad won 61% in the runoff election, not the primary election back in 2005. In the primary election he barely won 6 millino votes. In this primary election people are supposed to believe that Ahmadinejad won 62% (about 30 million votes) and that all the other candidates combined only won 38%.

2. Turnout was far higher in 2009 than in 2005. People do not run to the polls to reelect an incumbent.

3. Ahmadinejad does campaign as a populist, but his economic policies haven't worked. So I don't see why the people would reelect him so heavily.

4. exit polls initially showed Mousavi with 60% of the vote.

[Echo In Light]

35. "Get over it" is the exact same dismissal the jerk-offs slogan-chanted re Bush in 00/04

[donco6]

36. Nice "post-n-run" n/t

[backscatter712]

37. The freepers must be so sad! Soon, they won't be able to pick on mean old Iran anymore!

What are they going to do with themselves if they don't have a big enemy to rile people up with?

[Echo In Light]

39. Oh, rest assured they'll seize upon one as their entire movement is based on doing so

[NeedleCast]

40. Its Cute that People Think the Outcome of Elections in Iran isn't predetermined

Like I've said on several other threads, it doesn't matter how many votes were cast and who they were cast for. The Counsel of Guardians and the Supreme Leader pick the president.

There is no spoon.

[backscatter712]

43. The Guardian Council and Supreme Leader are no longer in control.

That's the whole point of this revolution. My prediction is that either they'll be overthrown entirely, or they'll be put on a very short leash.

The people have spoken. They want democracy, and they stand fast against Basiji thugs to get it.

[Javaman]

41. me loves a good hit and run poster...

:eyes:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=com&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpolitiken.dk%2Fudland%2Farticle733683.ece&sl=da&tl=en&history_state0=

[TexasObserver]

42. Ahmadinejad thanks you for your support.

If it's in Politico, it must be true!

[guardian]

44. Winning and being elected aren't necessarily the same thing

Remember 2000?

[Canuckistanian]

45. Nice post, Ayatollah

:eyes:

[JackRiddler]

46. Very intelligent response.

What inapplicable thought-reducing insult should we hurl at you?

[Canuckistanian]

48. Something about my momma should suffice

But I'll settle for slights against my manhood.

[anonymous171]

47. Bush "won" too. nt