The AMA Takes a Shocking Stand

[babylonsister]

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2009/06/ama-takes-shocking-stand

The AMA Takes a Shocking Stand
— By Kevin Drum | Wed June 10, 2009 11:20 PM PST


The AMA has announced that it will oppose the creation of a public option in any kind of healthcare reform. This is not exactly a shocker, since the AMA has opposed pretty much every step toward national healthcare ever proposed — including Medicare. Remember Operation Coffee Cup?

Still, they really ought to have better reasons than this:

In comments submitted to the Senate Finance Committee, the American Medical Association said: “The A.M.A. does not believe that creating a public health insurance option for non-disabled individuals under age 65 is the best way to expand health insurance coverage and lower costs. The introduction of a new public plan threatens to restrict patient choice by driving out private insurers, which currently provide coverage for nearly 70 percent of Americans.”

If private insurers are pushed out of the market, the group said, “the corresponding surge in public plan participation would likely lead to an explosion of costs that would need to be absorbed by taxpayers.”

The AMA's love affair with private insurance companies is truly a thing of wonder. It's like these guys have collective Stockholm Syndrome. Or collective battered wife syndrome. Or something. Given how much misery private insurers cause for most doctors, I sometimes wonder what they'd have to do to finally cause the AMA to turn on them. Start paying all claims in zlotys? Demand that doctors have bar codes tattooed on their foreheads? Insist that all waiting rooms show nothing but reruns of House?

Probably not even that. Doctors must figure that the more pain private insurers cause them, the more it shows they really love them. So back to the arguments, such as they are. (1) A public plan wouldn't drive out private insurers unless it turns out that private insurers are actually less efficient than the post office. In which case they'd deserve it. (2) Nor would a public plan restrict choice — unless the AMA's members deliberately tried to sabotage it by refusing to participate. (3) And there would only be a surge in signups if the public plan turned out to be a better deal, which would likely mean lower overall costs even if a greater percentage of those costs was paid for out of taxes.

But who cares? Honestly, if the graybeards of the AMA didn't oppose a public plan it would probably make me rethink my support for it. The fact that they are opposing it just means that all is right with the world.

[Hepburn]

1. Oh, what bullshit....

...:puke:

[Ignis]

27. "Fuck the uninsured. Now watch this drive."

:puke: indeed!

[NC_Nurse]

2. I assume that the highly paid specialists are worried that they won't make as

much. I doubt many of the general practitioners are against it. They are already overworked and underpaid.

[moondust]

24. "Low Medicare Reimbursement Rates"

They are probably looking at Medicare and assuming a public option will be as bad or worse. Some have been complaining about this for a long time. It is indeed about money.

Here's a "Kaiser Health News" article from just last week:

Low Medicare Reimbursement Rates Hurt Hospitals in Iowa and California

[NYC_SKP]

3. The American Murder Association's stand is as it ever was...

I'm not terribly shocked by this...

But good to post it! :P

[DURHAM D]

4. And they think they actually sound rational.

From the article -

"If private insurers are pushed out of the market, the group said, “the corresponding surge in public plan participation would likely lead to an explosion of costs that would need to be absorbed by taxpayers.”

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Go for it.

I will soon have single payer and I would gladly pay more taxes or pay more on my medicare plan if everyone else could have it as well.

[Catshrink]

5. Every physician I've ever talked to about insurance companies

hates dealing with them. My sister worked for a chiropracter and she told so many stories about denied claims or stalling by the insurance companies. She'd submit forms and they'd return them saying something hadn't been filled in -- she circles it and said yeah, it was there. Anything they could do to delay paying or deny coverage.

Other just hate the excessive paperwork and bureaucracy. Acoording to my doc's office manager, Aetna is to worst paperwork-wise, although the coverage is decent -- and United Health Care is one of the easiest to deal with.

As a patient, I don't see these back office issues -- I pay my co-pays and that's it. When I needed an ortho, I did have a little trouble finding one who took Aetna but we found one.


On edi: So duh, I forgot my point. Why wouldn't docs want to go to a system that reduced the paperwork they needed to complete? The only thing I can think of is problems they have had with the rates Medicare will pay. If we aren't paying 30% of health care dollars to the insurance companies, I could see payments to docs increasing.

[madrchsod]

6. most of the doctors i have had do not like insurance companies

insurance companies must approve of all but emergency life threating conditions. they question the doctors decisions on treatments.

[John Q. Citizen]

7. They represent 15% of physicians in the US currently. Why do they get a seat

at the table, and such an elevated seat and so many seats?

What's with that?

[Grinchie]

29. Because like the rest of the Autocrats, they compose 15% of the organization

The AMA is a paid PR Firm for Big Pharma. They continue down the path of mechanistic medicine, treating the symptoms while allowing the cause to run rampant in all sectors of the society.

This is the "Freedom" given to Americans --

1. The "Freedom" to unknowingly poison themselves with "Spring Fresh Laundry Detergent".
2. The "Freedom" to Smoke themselves to the delightful Golden years with Emphysema and Lung Cancer.
3. The "Freedom" to mask the symptoms of their futile lives with a lifetime prescription of Anti Depressants.
4. The "Freedom" to take Anti Cholesterol medication to help flush out the inert, plasticized Hydrogenated Fats so important to the Processed food industry.
5. The "Freedom" to take toxic chemicals called drugs, without knowing they are 500 milligrams away from destroying their Liver for good.
6. The "Freedom" to eat 1/10th of the amount of Nutritional supplements required to remain healthy and rebuild tissue.
7. The "Freedom" to eat high energy empty calories that do nothing other than generate body heat and physical movement.
8. The "Freedom" to buy "Vitamin Supplements" which are missing the essential activators that allow them to function in the first place, while eating food grown on depleted soils that contains none of the micronutrients it should have.
9. The "Freedom" to pop pain -killers for aches and pains without understanding why we have aches and pains in the first place.
10. The "Freedom" to drink pasteurized Milk, loaded with the remains of dead Bacteria and their Waste products, and still believe that it's Milk.
    
11. The "Freedom" to believe that GMO Food that is loaded with Bacillus Thuringensis CR1Y toxin is harmless to Humans over 10 years of consumption.
    
12. The "Freedom" to believe the AMA isn't just another money making Organization.
    
13. The "Freedom" to believe that Bio Electric medicine is a sham.
    
14. The "Freedom" to believe that Goverment regulations look out for our best interests when it comes to the ever growing list of Chemicals and Additives dumped on us and the environment.
    
15. The "Freedom" to believe that Marijuana is harmful.
    
16. The "Freedom" to drink so much that our Liver turns into a mechanically Tenderized piece of tough meat.
    
17. The "Freedom" to be told that Income Taxes on Wages in Exchange for Labor are Mandatory, and believe it, without actually ever reading the Law. (There is no Law)
    
18. The "Freedom" to die in the Hospice death bed with all the narcotics and pain killer you can willingly administer to yourself via push-button self-dosing machine.
    
19. The "Freedom" to destroy the Earth, because God gave us "Dominion" over the Earth, and we don't operate under the same rules as Nature does.
    
20. The "Freedom" to let others think for the masses and think Rote learning is the best we can do, while ignoring the Arts, History and Independant Thought.
    
21. The "Freedom" to do as we are told without question.

[WeDidIt]

8. It would have been shocking had they supported the public option.

The AMA created the term "socialized medicine" in teh early part of the last century when Socialists were viewed as bomb throwing radical terrorists.

[undeterred]

9. Those of us with NO INSURANCE have NO CHOICE.

And there are millions of us who cannot see a doctor or get the medication we need because the health care system has been devoured by GREED, some of it from doctors.

What are you going to do for us, doctor?

[Cant trust em]

14. That was my first thought. Private insurance covers 70% of americans.

And the other 30%?

[John Q. Citizen]

45. But public (goverment) dollars account for half of all health care spending.

Medicare is run through private insurers.

[groundloop]

10. Patient Choice my ass

The only choice most of us have is to either participate or not participate in the plan offered by our employers. If that plan sucks well tough, we're just stuck with it, or we might be lucky enough to get a better plan if we change jobs. There's choice for ya'.

[Mojorabbit]

11. I just sent them a scathing email.

It made me feel better.

[kickysnana]

25. Couldn't find an email address on the site. Could you provide a link? Thanx. n/t

[Mojorabbit]

40. Here you go

http://webapps.ama-assn.org/contactus/contactusMain.do

[ensho]

12. the AMA has been corrupted by the neo cons

now they only have a criminal voice.

[dynasaw]

13. AMA Heavy Contributors to the Rebublicans

hardly surprising since AMA has historically been a big contributor to the Republican party--especially in '04.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?ID=D000000068&Name=American+Medical+Assn

[chicago legal pro]

47. They were heavy contributors to Democrats starting in 08

and continuing into the 2010 cycle. That is why Congress will listen to them. https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=H01

[SidDithers]

15. Physicians were against public health care in Canada...

when Tommy Douglas was fighting to create Medicare in Saskatchewan in the early 60's. They even went so far as to strike.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0007155
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatchewan_Doctors%27_Strike

But 3 years after it was enacted, most doctors favoured it's continuation.

Sid

[babylonsister]

16. If we get anything passed, that's what I think will happen here. The AMA

bitterly fought Medicare, too. They're not interested in the public value of anything.

[redqueen]

17. "The fact that they are opposing it just means that all is right with the world."

Heh, exactly... this stand is not quite as shocking as the title would seem to indicate.

[MrMickeysMom]

18. I agree, this is bullshit, but it explains why the specialists with whom I work...

... might agree with their umbrella professional organization.

I haven't had this argument with the pulmonologist who said "single payer will never work", but I notice it mimics the AMA's stance. Lung health itself will improve access and treatment outcomes when you open it up under a national health service. Don't tell me you can control asthma triggers under the present system. It's become too damned expensive to have to make "choices" in that manner!

And, it makes absolutely NO sense what the AMA says here (not surprising). We are already restricting choice, and shifting costs in the present system. We'd be sustaining physician practices under "Medicare for All". If insurance companies think they can't compete with Medicare for all, there must be a good reason.

You want choice? Then, consider private options for that lap band surgery for obesity that has not been addressed by a program of health within a government plan, or the fastest growing outpatient industry, cosmetics.

[Individualist]

19. Kevin Drum finds it shocking; most of us don't

It's well known that AMA is pro-republican, pro-corporation.

[Triana]

20. f*ck the AMA - SOMEBODY had better have some damn political WILL up there and not be cowed

by the damnedable AMA et al.

[WolverineDG]

21. Funny, all my doctors hate insurance companies nt

[harun]

28. Mine too. Also having to pay so much for insurance themselves.

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. The AMA is a trade union.

They are looking out for the interests of their union members, not their customers.

The status quo leaves the medical industry awash in wealth.

This is like asking banks whether usury is a good thing. I already know what they think and why.

[The River]

23. I'm Not Suprised

It seems that all of the institutions that
were set up to inform and protect average citizens
has been corrupted by moneyed interests over time.
The AMA doesn't care what their member Doctors want
let alone the patients.
AARP has become nothing but an insurance shill.
BBB could care less about "consumer" protection,
they are owned by the business's they used to monitor.

[Fly by night]

26. Back in the mid 60s, when my father (a Mississippi physician) opposed Medicare, ...

... I couldn't understand why. I was about 15 at the time and told him that, every night at the dinner table, he complained about all the "crocks" and free-loaders who filled his waiting room. (He probably saw 40-50 patients a day at his office, plus morning and evening rounds at the hospital, plus house-calls at all hours of the day or night. I never knew him to get more than 3-4 hours of sleep a night). I said that the two new government programs -- Medicare and Medicaid -- would help increase the likelihood that he would actually be paid for his services.

He responded by saying that, even though he complained (since about 40% of his patients could not pay for his care except with the occasional bushel of turnip greens or a chicken or two), he was opposed to Medicare/Medicaid for two reasons:

1) He didn't want the government participating in his medical practice and second-guessing his medical opinions. (He freely sought advice from other local physicians, but never asked a bureaucrat or accountant for that advice.)

2) More importantly, he said that it was his responsibility to treat every patient who appeared for medical care before him, regardless of their ability to pay. He said that he earned enough to keep us comfortable and that he and his fellow physicians were amply re-paid for this pro bono care with the respect they received in the community. He also said that once all physicians came to expect payment every time they provided care, it would be the death of medicine as a noble profession and it would draw people into medicine who failed to understand (and practice) the entirety of the Hippocratic Oath.

I must say that, even as I support transforming our health care system to provide care for all (including me since I have no insurance and my Dad has been dead for a decade), I now understand what my Dad was saying and I think his prediction was pretty spot-on.

I didn't post this to disagree with what anyone else has said -- just to point out how far away from the once-noble practice of medicine (as it was delivered in a once and still poor Mississippi in the 60s) we have come.

And to honor my Dad, at whose graveside I will be next week when I slip away from a Mississippi family reunion. I still miss my best friend -- a lot. I'm just sorry that he's not here to hear me say that he was right about something. (He didn't get to hear that enough from me when I was growing up.)

[mnhtnbb]

32. Hubby has been an MD for 40 some years and he's a member of PNHP

with 16,000 members who support a national health plan.

http://www.pnhp.org/

After spending 5 minutes on the AMA website, I can't find the number of their members.
That means it's going down. They've deliberately hidden the number.

Screw the AMA.

[babylonsister]

34. Wiki claims doc membership has decreased to lower than 19%

of practicing physicians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Medical_Association

[Fly by night]

46. My post wasn't pro-AMA. We're having lots of problems with the TN chapter ...

... over our efforts to re-establish our state's medical cannabis program. However, it was an effort to show how far we've devolved from a time when physicians (at least those in my small town, where peer pressure worked somewhat to spread the indigent care around to all medical practices) were expected to serve anyone who needed medical attention, regardless of ability to pay.

However, once that egg was broken, I agree (sadly) that it cannot be returned to the shell.

Please thank your husband for 40+ years of service in a noble profession.

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. I don't know about anybody else, but i would gladly swap a $5000

increase in my taxes for a $9000/yr insurance policy.

[WesJ]

31. As a medical student and member of AMA, I find this unconscionable.

The AMA have always been businessmen first, caregivers second. Luckily the American Medical Students Association, which represents a younger generation of physicians, is much more progressive on this issue.

[mnhtnbb]

33. You need to join PNHP and forget the AMA.

http://www.pnhp.org/

Oh, and welcome to DU!

[nichomachus]

35. Translation: We can't have single payer, because it probably will succeed

And then the thieves in the insurance industry will have to find honest work.

[Dappleganger]

36. Once again, NO IDEAS

just a big fucking NO.

[and-justice-for-all]

38. Their idea is to protect their wallets and interest..

while continuing to beat our heads against the curb..

[and-justice-for-all]

37. A National Health Care plan is EXACTLY What we need..piss off AMA..nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. The Canadian Medical Association also opposed it

it went all the way to a national provider strike

Some people left the field after the system went in.

One of their complaints, they would not be able to make a living. Well Canadian doctors make a very healthy living today.

[SidDithers]

42. The strike was actually only in Saskatchewan...

and came about when Tommy Douglas was introducting medicare into that province. Ontario doctors also struck in the mid 80's over extra billing, but it was very short-lived, and not very successful, if I recall correctly.

I don't think there's been a national providers strike in Canada.

Sid

Edit: But the main point of your post is entirely correct. Canadian docs are generally happy with our system, because billing the system is very easy, and they get paid in a reliable, and timely fashion. :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. I wonder if my bro kicks himself in the knickers at times

he is a doctor at the Cleveland Clinic, but did quite a bit of his training at Toronto Gen.

he could not get a job in a large city when he finished his specialty, so he was recruited by Cleveland. His counterparts in Canada are making a better living than he is... mind you, he makes a good living

Also he is a top specialist in his field, but there are days I wonder...

funny though, he hangs out with other doctors, they bitch and moan about how the system is collapsing but they do NOT want a canadian like system. I go, sorry bro... I WANT ONE and demand it every so often.

[county worker]

41. They won't make the money on a government plan as with private insurance.

I was waiting to hear from the docs. Anything but an insurance company that pays 110% of what Medicare pays is a bad thing to them.


If a government plan would pay more than they could get from insurance companies they would be marching in Washington to get it passed!

[babylonsister]

44. Here's one doc that just quit the AMA-I hope more follow suit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5827419

[county worker]

49. As an accountant I have worked with doctors as clients and as employers for over 30 years.

I have to say that you are one of the very rare breed of doctors I can admire.

[jmondine]

48. Wow... 70 percent? Gee, that only leaves 90 million uninsured

Gosh what a great system. :sarcasm:

P.S. Thanks for making our point for us.