Hey freerepublic, O'reilly, Beck et al... Bin Laden doesn't "actually kill" anyone either

[jmondine]

He simply releases hate-filled diatribes on video and audio inspiring those gullible enough to believe in him to commit atrocious acts of violence.

Sound like anyone you know?

[OneGrassRoot]

1. Perfect response. Thank you. K&R n/t

[aquart]

14. Complete agreement.

[NanceGreggs]

2. Oh, GOOD ONE!!!

:kick: and REC'D!!!

[tavalon]

18. Neato, skeeto!

In our house, you are greatly admired, so when I pointed out to hubby that you gave him his second rec, he was tickled.

[NanceGreggs]

21. Well, please tell hubby ...

... that I LOVED his OP!

Neat, concise and directly to the point!

(In other words, he made a point that I would have wasted at least 2,000 words trying to convey - and never would have had the same impact as he did!)

:hi:

[dem629]

3. What about funding, training and direct orders?

[Number23]

25. I said the same thing! Post #23 (I love it when I'm the 23rd post in a thread)

But I still think the OP's point is a good one.

[DireStrike]

38. But why do you love it?

Just kidding :P

[RaleighNCDUer]

69. There's no proof of him directly training or issuing orders -

and he has not funded anyone in a very long time as the Saudi's seized virtually all of his assets.

Now he, like his RW counterparts, is funded by the terrorists.

[backscatter712]

74. Bush and Cheney didn't kill with their own hands either.

They just gave orders, just like Bin Laden did. They're alike in that all Bin Laden did, and all Bush and Cheney did was give inflammatory speeches and issued orders that got people hurt and killed.

OK, almost true. Cheney did shoot a man in the face...

[slay]

4. Nailed it!

Great little bit of insight there jmondine! :hi:

[OneGrassRoot]

5. If we could condense this, it would be a perfect bumpersticker/t-shirt message.

Bin Laden doesn't "actually kill"; he just spews hate so the gullible will act on it.

Sound familiar?

[ProgressiveFool]

9. how about...

Same shit, different medium

Pic of Rush pic of bin laden

RADIO VIDEO


or are most of bin laden's things on cassettes?

[OneGrassRoot]

12. A collage of Rush/Bin Laden, O'Reilly/Bin Laden, Coulter/Bin Laden...

and so forth.

I have a feeling DUers will come up with several brilliant ways to get this great message across by jmondine.

A stroke of brilliance! Simple. Perfect. The truth. Hatemongering is hatemongering, in any language, any medium.

[lordsummerisle]

6. Great point, k&r n/t

[NightWatcher]

7. back back back to the warning track and HOME RUN

you are 100% right and 0% wrong

[Creena]

8. I'm stealing this for my arguments with the wingers.

:hi:

[jmondine]

13. By all means, steal away

[frogmarch]

10. Excellent! K&R n/t

[lunatica]

11. Best one line response I've seen in years!

Bullseye!

[tridim]

15. Both are extremely well funded too.

[frylock]

16. oh

SNAP!

[juno jones]

17. Nor did Charles Manson.

He just pointed the way.

Funny, those hate-filled diatribers are sounding more like Charlie every day. Can't wait 'til they are in prison sans parole.

[DesertRat]

80. Exactly. And Manson is in prison for life. n/t

[tavalon]

19. Well spoken, hubby!

Happy to recommend.

And yes, he is this thoughtful in real life.

And he's a kickass daddy and husband as well.

[OneGrassRoot]

24. Good reason to kick this morning....

aside from this needing to stay at the top for visibility, I wanted to say congrats -- gladh to see another happy, brilliant couple here at DU!

:hi:

[tavalon]

27. Aw shucks, thanks. Though we're actually a happy triad.

My other is on here but he's a bit o' a curmudgeon so he doesn't post much.

[madamesilverspurs]

20. Osama bin Hannity

Osama bin O'Reilly

Osama bin Limbaugh

Osama bin Beck

Osama bin Coulter

Osama bin Malkin

Osama bin Laffinghisassoff because these idiots keep doing his work

[napoleon_in_rags]

22. An arrow released with Robin Hood accuracy. Rec'd! nt

[AlbertCat]

56. An arrow released with Robin Hood accuracy.

More like William Tell.

[napoleon_in_rags]

87. hee hee. Touche! nt

[Number23]

23. Actually, Bin Laden has funded training camps and purchased weapons and weapons training as well

But your point is still very well made.

Happy to rec

[OneGrassRoot]

26. I was just thinking about a similar response, upthread.....

When it comes to "funding" a hate movement, I would venture to say hate radio and now hate TV and publishing, backed by media conglomerates like Newscorp, are very much funding this movement.

Hate sells to those who are consumed with fear; hate talk channels fear towards specific targets and morphs the fear into anger. Anger is an easier emotion to deal with than fear for most people.

Weapons and training. Again, I see similar correlates. The militia movements are very much about weapons, and hate talk incites the gun nuts (versus responsible gun owners) to "take up arms."

As for training and organizing, their various gatherings, online message boards, etc., serve this purpose. Heck, even the Palin mobs were organizing back in the summer. The "seminars" that Beck, Hannity, et al give are attended by those with an agenda, so they're gathering in one place to support one another and, who knows, perhaps make plans toward that agenda?

The above paragraph certainly applies to many groups, including progressive groups. The difference being a propensity toward violence of the right-wing crowd because theirs is a message/agenda of exclusion, whereas progressive are inclusive and generally peaceful.

Edit: In addition, several of the hate-baiters HAVE called for violence, even if they cloak it in "entertainment" nonsense. Limbaugh and Coulter have called for the killing of liberals. Wait, Limbaugh said to leave a couple so they can be reminded of what libruls are like.

These are the chest thumpers. There have to be other incidents of them explicitly advocating violence.

[Blue Belle]

55. Not to mention that Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Coulter, Beck, et al...

Are huge supporters of the NRA and any legislation that would make it easier for people to aquire weapons.

[backscatter712]

72. If Bin Laden only gave the orders, the same can be said about George Bush and Dick Cheney.

Bush and Cheney didn't directly kill anyone either - they just headed an organization (aka. the United States Government,) and ordered it to commit crimes, torture and kill people.

OK, Cheney did shoot someone in the face, but he lived, so yes, it's still technically true that Cheney didn't directly kill anyone.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

28. Yeah Rush took responsibility for killing 3000 Americans

he has organized terror cells intent on killing more Americans, I forgot. :sarcasm:

[OneGrassRoot]

33. I honestly believe...

that if Limbaugh could take credit for thousands of muslim deaths, liberal deaths, or whoever else he hates and rails against on his show daily, he would do so. Proudly.

As for organizing "cells," he very much is an organizer, wanting to gather and mobilize those who agree with his hate talk, if only to increase his ratings.

Granted, I don't think he necessarily believes all the crap he spews. I think he laughs all the way to the bank about his gullible listeners. But if he could claim responsibility for deaths of those "they" deem as enemies -- without repercussion -- he would gleefully do so, chest thumping all the way to the bank.

[armyowalgreens]

29. This seriously needs to stop.

O'Reilly is not even comparable to Bin Laden. Sorry, but that is just ludicrous to do so.


Where is the sanity in DU?

I see these threads and I see so many people agreeing with the OP. It scares the shit out of me.

[OneGrassRoot]

31. The OP is straightforward enough to, hopefully, shake some people....

out of the slumber that hate speech is innocent and without effect.

It may not be equal, but it gets the point across that it is comparable and extraordinarily damaging and dangerous.

That's my opinion at least.

[armyowalgreens]

32. No one said hate speech was innocent.

What I am saying is that a lot of speech that is hateful is protected speech. We do not want to start censoring people simply because we disagree with them. We don't even want to censor them if we believe they are "setting an atmosphere for hate or violence". That is an EXTREMELY slippery slope that many countries have gone down.

I can compare anything. I can say that Obama is the same as Lucifer. That doesn't make it a good comparison. It certainly is a dumb one. And I think the same of the OPs.

I smell police state propaganda. It's coming from my fellow DUers. And it scares the shit out of me.

[OneGrassRoot]

34. I hear what you're saying.....

and there are obviously two different camps on this issue at DU, as there are two camps about many things. LOL.

I personally am not advocating state censorship or anything of the legal sort.

What I hope for is that these people become socially unacceptable. That SOCIETY realizes the danger and doesn't give them the listenership/viewership/readership needed for them to stay in business.

I hope the average person will start to realize that hate speech isn't innocent. I'm not calling for legal involvement or legislative involvement beyond enforcing current hate crime laws.

[armyowalgreens]

35. All I am asking for is a little bit of logic...

What O'Reilly has done is in NO WAY comparable to Osama Bin Laden.

I'm not about to defend what O'Reilly has said. He is an asshole. But I will defend his right to say it without censorship.


The best way to turn people away from O'Reilly is to make our cause even more upfront and visible. Shouting how the other side is evil sounds a whole hell of a lot like the tactics of the right. It's no good.

[OneGrassRoot]

36. I respect your opinion....

And I also defend the right to say things without censorship; but I also demand taking responsibility for the consequences of what people say.

Let's see where this visibility goes. Just as many wanted to learn why Al Quaeda hates America after 9/11, exposing WHY these hate groups hate certain people is wise.

Exposing the reason for hate is always a step in the right direction, IMHO. I think that's what is being exposed now and is a good thing. I don't think we have to do much at this point...I think the right-wing crazies are glad to air all their dirty laundry at this point. They're proud of it.

I just want them held accountable for it and own the consequences.


edit: rushing, typos galore...must work now. :)

[yodermon]

39. Then you scare easily.

[OneGrassRoot]

41. delete. I don't think this was meant for me. :) Sorry n/t

[handmade34]

46. ok think about this

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. <...> The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent"

Schenck v U.S. and Brandenburg v Ohio

Free-speech(1st amendment) is only a reference to actions by government officials - not to restrict activities

I have not seen any one here calling for an all out ban of Fox News (wouldn't that be delightful) just the analogy

[jeff47]

67. You're jumping to conclusions

"What I am saying is that a lot of speech that is hateful is protected speech."

Nobody's trying to take away their mics. Bin Laden's or anyone on right wing radio.

Just because something is immoral doesn't mean it should be made illegal.

[IsItJustMe]

40. O'Reilly and his ilk are spreading hate and causing these nut jobs to go off. Nuff said.

[harun]

44. Teaching hate and inspiring violence should be called out for what it is.

Not only non-Americans are capable of that, you know?

[Hugabear]

54. Abortion must be stopped by "ANY MEANS NECESSARY"

I've heard that plenty of times from far-right religious whackjobs. I've also seen similar statements made about Obama and Democrats in general.

And it you don't have to look very far in a general public thread dealing with homosexuality to find idiots making violent statements about gay people.

[AlbertCat]

57. Abortion must be stopped by "ANY MEANS NECESSARY"

Except of course education and birth control.

[RaleighNCDUer]

77. Abortion must be stopped by all legal means necessary -

that is a strong opinion.

Abortion must be stopped by all means necessary -

that is an invitation for the nutcases.

These people work with words on a daily basis. They know the effect of words. They've built their careers on the use of words. They know EXACTLY what they are saying, and know how to state an opinion while at the same time mitigating the effect of their words - yet choose not to do it.

Abortion must be stopped by all (legal, non-violent, Christian, proper, judicious) means necessary is NOT hard to say, and no one hearing any of those would doubt their sincerity and neither would they hear a call to arms.

These fuckers are 100% culpable for the effect of their speech.

[Kahuna]

59. Not even 'slightly comparable?' C.mon. He incites assholes to act out..

I see at the very least a similarity.

[RaleighNCDUer]

71. If this scares you

you are scared of the wrong people.

[armyowalgreens]

81. Nope. I'm scared of anyone acting this irrationally.

[RaleighNCDUer]

82. Who is it that is being irrational? A few posters on this board

or the nutcases with guns that listen to OReilly and Beck?

Get a grip.

[armyowalgreens]

83. Stop being a hypocrite.

Don't tell me to get a grip. That is simply ridiculous.

I'll "get a grip" when people on here and everywhere else stop attacking the other side with such stupid claims.

You explain to me how O'Reilly is the same as Osama Bin Laden.

I won't be able to respond until I get back from work. I'm sure I'll enjoy it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

84. ..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5828142

[armyowalgreens]

90. You have failed to provide evidence.

You didn't provide evidence that O'Reilly is the same as Osama Bin Laden.

I'll wait a little longer.

[OneGrassRoot]

30. Watch Frank Schaeffer on Rachel Maddow about hate talk...

and the responsibility of those who spew hateful rhetoric. He says it "helps unhinge a society."

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-show-frank-schaeffer-how-hate

[OwnedByFerrets]

37. K and R

[harun]

42. I rec this for post of the year!

[redqueen]

43. Neither did Julius Streicher. (nt)

[Laf.La.Dem.]

45. Thank You

This post deserves an A+ and :kick:

[Catshrink]

47. Same shit, different asshole

remember this? Just change it to photos of Bin Laden and Rush (or another of his ilk).

[beac]

48. A big K&R! n/t

[SalviaBlue]

49. You just got a shout out from Thom Hartmann

[OwnedByFerrets]

51. Thumbs UP

[Liberal_Dog]

50. Thom Hartmann Just Mentioned This Thread On His Show

:toast:

[OneGrassRoot]

60. Sweet! Go jmondine! :) n/t

[jmondine]

89. Wow! Any links?

[A Simple Game]

52. I have said for a long time that the only difference between

the suicide bombers and our nut jobs is
their choice of weapons and the type of
and intensity of their indoctrination.

[myrna minx]

53. K&R n/t

[Kahuna]

58. You get a recommend from me! Well done!!!

:applause:

[indimuse]

61. KNR!

good one! :)

[jmondine]

62. I admit the OP was written out of anger...

... and it was meant to be somewhat shocking and alarming. I don't agree though, as some have said here, that it was reactionary.
This is not a black or white issue here. It's not a matter of, "Either the talk show hosts are 100% like bin Laden or 100% completely different". Of course there are differences, and major ones.
There are also major similarities.
We were all branded by some as "terrorists" for not supporting Shrub in the wake of 9/11. What made such claims outrageous was not just the alarmist nature of the claim itself but how flimsy it was when held up to close scrutiny.
My hope is that the response to the shocking nature of my comparison is not that people will start yelling and calling names (though I do think that we need to start getting louder and more assertive in the wake of all this domestic terrorism).
I hope that folks beyond the realm of our own sphere will wake up and start looking at the right wing extremists in this country, and start looking at how very similar they are to the dreaded "Islamic Terrorists":

They believe in a repressive, fundamentalist view of their own religion.
They view people who live less repressively as eroding the moral fabric of their society.
They practice misogyny in their private lives and oppose sexual equality in public.
They condemn homosexuality as an abomination.
They are utterly hypocritical when it comes to endorsing murder and violence in the name of their faiths.

And, coming back to my original point...

They follow leaders who use media to spew hate-filled propaganda and make threats, veiled or unveiled, which motivate real violent acts against those with whom they disagree.

I remember, in the wake of 9/11, all the calls being made to bring those who attacked us to justice, in spite of the fact that all of the actual hijackers were dead. There was no question at that time that we had to hold those who motivated and endorsed these acts responsible. Why should now be any different?

[suffragette]

64. well said

K&R

[NanceGreggs]

63. Back for a kick!!!

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[bkkyosemite]

65. These as*holes are inciting violence and having their brainwashed followers to do the deeds.

They are not just having a good time with free speech..this is serious stuff. What will happen if something happens to our President because of Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, Beck and the rest of the inciting violence crew. Then will people say it should have been stopped a long time ago. This is not free speech!

[Common Sense Party]

66. Bin Laden funds and orders terrorist cells to carry out attacks and

murder innocent 'infidels.'

I haven't ever heard of Limbaugh, O'Lielly, Beck or their ilk funding terrorist cells and ordering them to kill innocent civilians.

And you haven't either.

[bkkyosemite]

68. They have come very close to saying kill the President. He is a communist, he will take away your

freedom, he is not legally our President, he is with his muslim terriorist friends controlling our Country, he must fail, we must stop him, he is against us.....he is a criminal...he is he is..that is inciting violence for those who are their brainwashed followers to act on what they feel is a threat to themselves because of what these creeps have said.

[Common Sense Party]

70. How is that any different from what the left-wing blogosphere

and AirAmerica did during Shrub?

He's a Nazi, he's a murderer, MIHOP, he's not the legitimate president, etc., etc.

[RaleighNCDUer]

85. Nevermind that Prescott Bush WAS a Nazi sympathizer who made

his fortune working for the Nazis - the Bush DID start a war on false evidence, thus making him a real-life murderer - that if there is no real evidence for MIHOP, 9/11 could hardly have happened without LIHOP - that Bush did literally steal both the 2000 and 2004 elections -

There is this little problem when you compare OReilly's LIES with documented TRUTH and say they are equivalent.

[AspenRose]

73. .

Liddy: When the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms thugs come to kill your wife and children, to try to disarm you and they open fire on you. When they come at the point of a gun, force and violence, when you're going to defend yourself, use that Gerand . That thing is 30-06, and it'll take 'em right out.

Caller: And yes, aim for the head.

Liddy: Absolutely.
<snip>

Liddy: Arm yourself. Get instructed in how to shoot straight.

Caller: I've got weapons.

Liddy: Absolutely. And don't give 'em up, and don't register either.

Caller: No way. And I'm aiming between the eyes.

Liddy: There you go. That way their flak jackets won't protect them.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1313

[backscatter712]

75. Bush and Cheney gave orders.

Technically Bush and Cheney didn't pull the triggers themselves (except when Cheney shot that guy in the face). They just issued orders and made speeches.

Fundamentally, Osama bin Laden is guilty of exactly the same crimes as George W. Bush and Dick Cheney - they gave orders that got people hurt and killed, and made inflammatory speeches that stirred up their masses.

[Common Sense Party]

76. When did they give orders to terrorists to target and murder innocent

civilians?

[backscatter712]

78. In the lead-up to Abu Ghraib & Gitmo.

They targeted, tortured and murdered quite a few people. You didn't know that a large number of the detainees at Gitmo were innocent?

[Common Sense Party]

91. I didn't know that a large number were tortured.

Because they weren't. We've heard about three were waterboarded. Three.

I also didn't know that you consider our Marines and soldiers to be terrorists, on a par with Al Qaeda and Hezbollah.

The conversation WAS about domestic U.S. terrorists, targeting the U.S. population, not casualties of war, but, hey, whatever lets you get your anti-military hate on.

[backscatter712]

79. Also, I thought I'd mention that the entire Iraq War can be construed as a giant act of terrorism...

[RaleighNCDUer]

86. They didn't. They gave their orders to the largest military establishment

in the world.

Although an argument COULD be made that their orders to the CIA for illegal detention and torture might be equivalent.

[EFerrari]

88. Cool. Do you have a list of their donations? I've love to see that.

And, iirc, O'Reilly invited al Qaida to bomb San Francisco.