On buying American

[MadHound]

A little over a month ago I had a huge problem. My beloved Troybilt tiller finally kicked the bucket after thirty-seven years of faithful service. The gasket for the gear box was leaking oil, and I needed a carb kit to rebuild the carburator. Both of these products are virtually impossible to find anymore, and I needed a tiller ASAP, since a lot of my food for the year comes out of my garden.

I went rushing up to my local Troybilt dealer, desperate for a new tiller. What I found was a POS with the brand Troybilt slapped on it. Lots of plastic, thin steel, and damn if they hadn't taken out the neutral gear, replacing it with a pin and slide system that looked like a major pain in the ass. They went to start the puppy up, and it simply didn't fire up, and on the third pull the POS plastic gas tank split, spilling gas all over. I walked away from that, quickly.

So I resolved that I would do some intense research and find out the best tiller out there, and not rush into a disaster, which I almost did with the Troybilt. I looked at various reviews, went out and looked at the various machines. I was wanting to buy American, but I wasn't willing to sacrifice quality. The thing I loved about my old Troybilt was that even though I paid a little bit more for it at the time, it was a quality product that had a long life. That's what I wanted out of my new tiller.

Well, my search led to a great tiller, a BCS, an import from Italy. It cost a bit more than comparable American brands, but the quality looked to be outstanding. I went ahead and bought it, it was shipped to my home within a week, I pulled it out, did the minimal assembly required, and it fired up on the first pull. I love this machine, very little plastic, thick gauge steel, a solid machine that I can see lasting for decades.

So the question I'm getting around too is should I have bought American? Should I have sacrificed what I needed in a tiller(long life, durability and high quality) in order to support an American company? Or should American companies start making high quality products that people need? For instance, I would have loved to have bought an American scooter when I was in the market for one a few years back, but the only American motorbike manufacturers around make strictly big bikes, too big for what I need.

So why should I sacrifice quality, why should I overlook what I need in order to support an American company? It's easy to repeat the "buy American" mantra, but the fact of the matter is that there are many American products that simply aren't worth buying. This applies to not only tillers, but to products across the spectrum. And if you're like me, you can't afford to sacrifice quality and your hard earned dollar simply to say that you "bought American."

If you want the American public to buy American products, then American corporations need to make products that are of comparable quality as the rest of the world. If they cost a bit more, so be it, I think that most people are like I am, they're willing to pay a bit more if the product that they purchase is of superior quality. However don't try to shove shoddy crap down our throats, and then insult us because we're not buying American.

[MADem]

1. You did the right thing. Those people making crappy American tillers need to

find a new line of work, making something of quality instead.

Compete, or die. Protectionism is what REPUBLICANS do.

[MadHound]

3. I truly think that there's been a serious push towards built in obselescence over the past 3 decades

Machines and equipment that was built thirty years ago or more still seems to hold up well. I've got shovels, hand tools, power tools that are decades old that are still going strong(hell, my Troybilt would still be going if I could find parts). But things made in the past ten, fifteen years seem to fall apart within just a few years. It pisses me off, companies in this country are following the strategy of building crap in order to force consumers to purchase more. I'll pay more for quality at time of purchase, just so long as the product lasts.

This is the same mindset that ultimately drove GM and Dodge into bankruptcy. Hopefully they've learned and will start building quality products.

[MADem]

6. I have tools that belonged to my grandparents that are almost a hundred years old;

I have cookware (cast iron) belonging to my great grandparents that we still use, that is more than a hundred years old. I have an old radio that was manufactured in the twenties, that I still listen to--picks up great reception over very long distances, too.

I agree with you that obselescence is the new paradigm. "Built to last" just isn't "cool" anymore.

What's great is if you can find some clever old fart who knows how to fix stuff, who can repair, replace, reuse and repurpose stuff to keep something going.

[MadHound]

9. I'm actually becoming fairly skilled in that myself

I can probably fix the Troybilt myself, given some gasket material and a machine shop to rework some of the carb parts. But since I needed to till right now, I thought it was best to have a more reliable tiller, and keep the Troybilt on standby.

Repair shops, of any sort, are quickly becoming a thing of the past. More and more products are designed to be tossed instead of repaired, and even if you do repair them, it costs just as much as getting a new one. Sad state of affairs, no wonder we're drowning under a pile of garbage.

I've got a fair number of old tools from my parents and grandparents. I was out in my barn the other day, getting ready for repair work on it, and found an old fence multi-tool, with the hammer, pliers, wire cutter, pick all in one. Rusted as hell, it must have been sitting out there for at least fifty years. Soaked it in oil overnight, and now I've got quite the handy little tool. Get one of those today and it would rust away to nothing in just a few years.

[MADem]

12. Good for you! I'm a fan of "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without!"

Although I won't necessarily "do without," to be honest. But I will grouse like a "pinch a silver dollar till the eagle screams" codger about the price of the thing I will not "do without!"

[MadHound]

15. I had that drilled into my head by my parents, both who grew up in the Depression

I also tend to save lots of things, much to my wife's horror I'm a pack rat;)

[MADem]

24. When some grandkid takes a piece of crap from your barn or garage or attic

to the ANTIQUES ROADSHOW, and is told that the bit of crap is worth twenty, thirty, a hundred grand....why, your wife will think you are the "git down, git down, unh--wit-yer-bad-self" hottest feller in the room!

[Oregone]

11. Yeah, thats probably true

I remember scouring the internet a few years ago to help my father purchase a near antique chain driven Craftsman belt sander to replace his that died after almost 50 years of service. He spent some time on all the new makes and brands and nothing cut it (most were belt driven and would break or slow down under pressure). Those old Craftsmans were amazing (but heavy), and are highly sought after because no one on the market makes anything close anymore. Just one example. Fortunately, even some made half a century ago still work and end up on eBay.

[Towlie]

2. If we buy American just to buy American, will the quality of our products ever improve?

[Dappleganger]

4. We need to highlight those American companies who are doing it RIGHT

so that others will see that the public WANTS good, solid American products but we will turn our noses up at crap.

Not a scooter company, but a MC company which is doing it right is Victory Motorcycles. They are putting out some kick-ass beauties with excellent quality. Their cycles are built to last (as they are quickly proving) and reflect what is good about American engineering and manufacturing.

I'd love to see a list of companies similar to Victory who know how to do it right.

[MadHound]

7. Victory and Harley both put out good machines,

But they are way too big for what I need. All I wanted was a nice little scooter that goes around 60 mph and gets 80-100mpg. There's no American company making those, so I went with a Bajaj scooter. You would think that with the gas prices rising, Victory or Harley would come up with something, but all they want to push is that expensive, large iron. This is the same sort of mentality that got the Big 3 in trouble.

Companies need to not only produce quality products, but a range of products that the public wants, and to be nimble enough to meet consumer demand.

[rd_kent]

5. You were spot on!

You made an attempt to buy an American product. You found that the American product was inferior and you bought one that gave you quality for your money. Last time I checked, THAT was an American ideal. Seems that many of our manufacturers have forgotten that lesson.

[MadHound]

8. Yeah, but if you do that, the "Patriot Police" around here try to tell you how unAmerican you are.

My thought is when they start paying for my machines, along with the upkeep, then they get to decide what I buy.

[rd_kent]

17. Well, I would just tell those so-called "patriot police" to go self-fornicate.

Plus, I didnt realize we had patriot police. And who appointed them?

[Uben]

10. I know what ya mean!

We held a charity auction recently, and I found a couple of really good deals. One older gentleman said he had an older Snapper lawnmower he would donate to the auction. He said it hadn't been started in about four years and had been sitting in his shed for about that long. I went over and got it thinking I just took a pile of junk off the guy's hands. Of course, the gas tank was bone dry, so I filled it about halfway with some fresh gas. Then I began pulling the starter rope. I pulled and I pulled, and finally, on the second pull, it fired up! Now it starts on the first pull every time, and the thing has got to be 30 yrs old! I got it for $25!
Another find was a DR powered wheelbarrow a builder friend of mine donated to the auction. These things sell for $2500 new, and this one looked pristine! The guy had a reserve of $500 on it, so I got it for $500, which I consider a great bargain. I have a home built on four lots at a private lake, so I had a need for such an apparatus. It has an electric starter that fires right up, reverse, neutral, and four forward gears, and an alternate bed for toting stones, bricks or brush!

So, I managed to get two really well built American made machines at a great discount. DR POWER makes tillers as well, so maybe you shoulda checked them out. They look well built.

[MadHound]

13. I would love to find somebody who's got some DR stuff that I could check out

I've seen their ads on TV and in magazines, and always wondered how they held up. I've never been able to find anybody who uses their equipment, and they never seem to turn up in product reviews. So keep me posted on how your stuff holds up.

Good auction finds are always nice, congrats

[Coyote_Bandit]

14. Maybe the question really is

whether you even had the option to purchase a tiller from domestic US company (as opposed to a large multinational) which was designed and made in the US by US workers using domestic resources.

I'm guessing that probably wasn't even an option.

[MadHound]

16. Actually Troybilts are made in the US

Though some of them have Honda engines and some have Briggs and Stratton engines. There might be others also, but I researched over twenty different makes and models and found nothing as good as this BCS.

[Coyote_Bandit]

21. Point is

we Americans don't have much of a manufacturing industry here anymore.

For the most part we don't make much stuff. Most of the companies that do make stuff do business on a multinational scale. If they manufacture stuff in the US then odds are that they import many of the resources. Is that American made by an American company? Hardly.

[GKirk]

18. I did a quick read of

some message boards about tillers. You should really get your old one fixed, it appears those old Troy Bilts are the best ever.

[MadHound]

19. Oh I will, but I needed a tiller quick

And didn't have time to find a machine shop to do my own work, or wait for the gasket material to come through the mail.

Besides, this BCS I've got is great, reminds me a lot of my Troybilt when it was new. Tills like a dream, virtually all solid metal. We'll see how it holds up. But yeah, this winter when I've got some time I'll be fixing up the old Troybilt, if for no other reason than antique's sake.

[Statistical]

20. I would say you did the right thing. Some people say American or nothing.

That you killed a union job and you deserve to burn for it.

I say value = value.
If Troybuilt had been a better value you would have bought it.
It is a pretty simply concept.
Most people look for value.

It isn't like people are going out of their way to buy non-American.
Some buy the cheapest but I like to pay for quality.

The high end electronics department is virtually devoid of offerings by American companies.
Margins on some of those products are 25%+.

Americans just got killed in that market by not producing value.

[Spike89]

22. Part of the problem is the "Walmarting" of America

For a significant portion of the population, cost is primary. For most of the rest of us, cost is secondary. Very few people aren't cost sensitive for the majority of their purchases. Walmart's predatory, anti-labor retail practices are well known, but perhaps even worse is how they distort the market. For instance, if basic semi-junk tillers used to start at $500 retail and a "good" one sells for about $800. Along comes Walmart making a deal with manufacturer "A" to build a cheaper full-junk version that they can sell for $400. Manufacturer "B" doesn't get the Walmart contract and basically get creamed on their semi-junk $500 tiller because the difference between the cheap versions isn't huge. Now, manufacturer B can no longer afford to sell its good tiller for $800 because it's lost the economies of scale having a "consumer" version afforded. Now the good tiller cost $1,000 and even quality conscious people may figure it is better to buy the crappy one and replace it. Manufacturer "B" goes out of business. No one makes a good, much less great tiller any more.

[ContinentalOp]

23. The way I see it is this...

I don't want to buy things that are made by children or in countries that violate human rights. But if a product is made in the EU or Japan by workers living with a far higher cost of living than American workers, then there's really no excuse for American companies not to be competitive.