We paid $50 billion for GM that had a maximum value of $56 billion in 2000

[AngryAmish]

<http://whatilearnd.com/post/119947605/0-000000435>

Market capitalization was $7.3 billion? Would we be better off just giving the money to the workers and let it be liquidated?

Why did Bush do that?

[dkf]

1. What would be the justification for giving money to a group of

people whose company is failing?

I don't even get that.

Unless you are talking about giving them unemployment and they are already going to get that.

[AngryAmish]

2. It was said that we have to save GM to save the jobs

Maybe the jobs didn't need saving. If we gave them enough money they could get other jobs.

[dkf]

3. Get other jobs? I don't think so.

People aren't hiring, not even the Government. And what other jobs are Autoworkers trained for? That is hard.

[Statistical]

5. I think the point is. cost vs reward.

For $50B the govt could have created a new green industry. Say solar panels.
Hired & trained every displaced GM employee. Given them a new job, early retirement, or retraining in another field if that is what they wanted.

Likely would have only cost $2B-$3B.

With the remaining money they could created orders to purchase solar panels from this new green company ("US Solar").

Figure average cost of $1 million to wire a govt building for solar.
$40B would be enough to wire 40,000 government building.
Enough product to keep this new entity employed for next decade.
By that point demand from other businesses would make the new entity self sufficient.
$40B in solar spending would also reduce power requirements and create economies of scale that would lower solar prices for businesses & consumers increasing adoption.

Instead we spent $50B and GM is still in BK and even when it emerges there is no guarantee the new GM will be successful.

Same $50B
New Green Solar Company hiring all GM workers who want it (or retraining/college to a job they do want) + 40,000 govt building wired for solar

OR

Prop up same ole car company that competes in a marketplace with 10 other car companies making essentially the same ole product.

Which generates more value, more reward?

Of course doing that would require thinking outside the box.
If only we had an articulate charismatic leader and Congressional majority to make it happen. Oh wait...

Wasted opportunity.

Same thing with the stimulus. Most of it was a waste, same ole spending rather than something revolutionary that will create value.
$700B? How about wiring a million low income homes for solar? How about $10B in matching funds for states who want to build wind farms or large scale solar?

[dkf]

7. Why would green jobs go specifically to ex-GM workers?

Is that legal? I would think they would have to open it up to everyone. Or are you talking about turning GM into a solar panel company? Would they be able to make money with solar panels when they couldn't do it with cars? Especially with all their legacy costs.

And we have hundreds of billions for the stimulus package. If its such a wonderful thing, why has only a fraction of it been spent?

Green jobs seem like a decent idea, but out Government hasn't shown it is good at speedy execution or any execution at all for that matter.

[Statistical]

11. Is it legal?

Is it legal/moral to protect GM jobs and let other people be unemployed.

I mean if you are going that route what is the difference.

GM -> Solar panels OR ANYTHING REVOLUTIONARY.
GM -> Cars

Either way the jobs are being artificially protected (which I think is necessary) and the company is being artificially propped up.

This at a time when millions of non autoworkers are out of a job and hundreds if not thousands of businesses (mostly small businesses) have shut their doors.

So the justification if GM should be protected is another question.

If you answer yes then my point simply is if we are going to spend $50B to do so we could have got more out of it then just another car company.

Maybe not solar but something. $50B seems a high price to pay for another car company that really isn't needed.

[Historic NY]

4. We might as well surrender all manufacturing to other countries...

a country that doesn't make anything can't fend for itself. What do we make? Where is our skilled labor force...working in Burger King, McDonald's. Its not just about GM & cars its about the entire industry from the parts business, to the upholstery makers, to the plastic manufacturers, to all the other various small business interconnected to making a car. Suddenly losing this industry will mean many others will go, its is already happening to some major suppliers they are closing. Does anyone think toyota, nissian or any other foreign car maker relies on our manufacturing. Pretty soon were going to have $22 dollar per hr burger flippers with advanced degrees.

[B Calm]

6. Blame the millionaires investing in hedge funds

What the Wall Street weasels in the hedge fund industry has done, is not only bought up GM debt so now they are major bond holders, but they also bought insurance (or bets) that the bets they own will go bad. As it turns out, the debt that they are holding with GM is twenty-seven billion bucks, but if GM goes down and because of their insurance policy for thirty-four billion (which is bigger than their debt), they stand to make billions of dollars. This is what I call predatory capitalism!

[damntexdem]

8. Yeah, but what type of warrenty did we get?

How many miles, how many years? And did we have to pay extra?

[TahitiNut]

9. That's only about 3 month's worth of oil company profits.

How much have auto workers paid in federal income taxes annually? How much have the states collected in auto sales taxes and registration fees each year?

:shrug: :eyes:

[JVS]

10. The odd thing is that despite giving the money over, the workers will still get fucked over.

This is because giving money to the bosses is only going to help workers if the bosses want it to help the workers and, they most certainly don't want that to happen.