Busting Open the "Christian Nation" Myth

[Vyan]

Reposted from My Blog

This weekend Former Republican House Speaker Newt Gingrich (who was forced to leave his post due to an scandal with infidelity) spoke for three hours in Virginia and "Rediscovery God in America" and in the midst of his talk actually claimed that American are now "Surrounded by Paganism - as if that is somehow a bad thing.

GINGRICH: I am not a citizen of the world. I am a citizen of the United States because only in the United States does citizenship start with our creator. <...> I think this is one of the most critical moments in American history. We are living in a period where we are surrounded by paganism.

He along with other speakers such as Mike Huckabee also railed against...

the continuing availability of abortion, the spread of gay rights, and attempts to remove religion from American public life and school history books.

Yes, he attacked abortion just days after a tragic abortion murder. Way to root for the good guys Newt. He claimed, like a great many American Theocrats that America is a "Christian Nation" and ties that argument back to the Declaration of Independence.

Gingrich, now a consultant and author, said the ties to religion in American government date to the Declaration of Independence, when Thomas Jefferson wrote that men are endowed by God with certain inalienable rights.

It is true he wrote that, but what he didn't write - what was specifically left out was exactly "Which God" he was talking about.

Newt is allegedly a student of History, but in a recent Dkos post another Historian, one far from being so high profile as Newt, broke down the true origins of American Religiousity in a response to a Theocrat Relative - and it's nothing like what Gingrich and Huckabee describe.

First in response to a blast email which lists all the state Preambles which mention "Almight God" our heroine Laine presented the Treaty of Tripoli.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation. (Worth noting that we have not lived up to those words.)

This nation was founded on freedom of religion for ALL- not just Christians. The Preamble for Oregon says:

Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences

The dictates of my conscience, not yours.

The response from her theocrat aunt was pretty much what you'd expect, a personal attack laced with accusations against a long dead parent for their failings in raising such an "Anti-God" Child. To this Laine responded with something I think every person who is confronted with this type of rabid Christo-Facism should have memorized.

~The settlers who came here from England in the 17th century came for various reasons; some as entrepreneurs, some looking for land of their own, some for religious reasons. The latter are the ones we usually think of- hardy Pilgrims coming to the new land for religious freedom. Except not quite- those coming from England came because they held to faith other than the Church of England (Anglican, here in the States we call them Episcopalians). They did not come for freedom, per se. They came to establish a community where their sect would be the official Church. The various early Colonies were a mish-mash of different sects. What was a legal religion in one might be outlawed in another. (Don't believe me? Read up about Ann Hutchinson or Roger Williams- they were both expelled from Massachusetts for failing to toe the Puritan party line.)

~The Founders (who signed the Declaration of Independence) and the Framers (those who helped draft the Constitution) were a very interesting group of men. They came from all walks of life, and all sorts of backgrounds, ethnic and religious. The greatest number of them were Episcopalians, and there were also Presbyterians, Congregationalists, a few Methodists, Lutherans, etc. There were also several Deists- among them George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin (though Franklin would occasionally cop to being basically agnostic).

~I have to explain here what 'Deism' is. Deism is a religious and philosophical belief that a supreme god created the universe, and that this and other religious truth can be determined using reason and observation of the natural world alone, without the need for faith. Deists generally reject the notion of divine interventions in human affairs - such as by miracles and revelations. It is a handy vague vision of God than excludes no one.

~Now, go back to the Colonies and their disparate religions. One of the difficulties in putting together any federation of the colonies was the religious issue. And this is why the various documents that stitch together our country refer only vaguely to a non-specific God. Because they are trying to avoid what we would now call a Balkanization along religious lines. By using the very vague Deistic references, they can go honor to God without invoking sectarian conflict. (Pretty smart guys, those Founders.)

If you were to adopt the Christianity of the original settlers - ignoring the existing religion of the Native American's who had already been here for countless centuries - the State Religion of the United States would most likely be Puritan. Or maybe Quaker.

These sects who fled English shores for America to avoid being persecuted by the Church Of England (C.O.E.) aka Anglican. That Church itself only came into existence as an offshoot of the Catholic Church when King Henry VIII (now made slightly more famous by Showtime's The Tudors) wanted to be able to divorce his first wife Catherine, but was barred from doing so by the Roman Pope.

In forming the C.O.E. Henry made himself it's Pope, and then proceeded to divorce and/or behead 6 several more wives. In the meanwhile he made it an act of Treason to oppose and criticize his action in splitting with Rome, yet one Protestant author named Dr. William Tyndale did criticize Henry and was eventually executed for it. Reportedly as he died he exclaimed, just as he was strangled to death and later burned at the stake - "Lord! Open" the King of England's eyes!"

So yet again we see the problem and the danger of "Which God" the Declaration and various Preambles describe, is it the Catholic/Protestant/ Anglican/Episcopalian/Puritan/Quaker/Jewish/Muslim that Thomas Jefferson was referring to? Since he himself was a Deist, the not so simple answer is All of Them and none of them.

The point was the allow the Freedom to persue the Religion of our individual choice, but not to attempt to force that choice upon others. America is designed to specifically NOT to have a single Church authorized for the state or else we may face the type of orthodox religious wrath that befell Dr. Tyndale.

Or for that matter, Dr. George Tiller.

Vyan

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. He forgets that Christianity started in the middle east not America

Jesus was not born in a manger in New York

[kestrel91316]

2. I have some frightening news for Li'l Newtie: America has become

COMPLETELY PERMEATED by paganism.

:evilgrin:

I hope it gives him nightmares.

[Posteritatis]

3. Besides, it's been acting more like a Norse one for the past few years (nt)

[47of74]

4. It's not about fidelity to the teachings of Christ that drives Gingrich and his ilk

It's using the name of Christ to gain political power and to dominate and control others.

[Libertas1776]

5. Fat Ass Newt

can proselytize all he pleases, claiming he is a good God fearing Christian in a Christian nation. Of course he is wrong about that latter, as so graciously proven by the poster. As to the former, I can only say you are anything but, Newtie. I am not a religious man anymore, but I was raised in the Christian form, and I if I remember correctly, those that have the most "toys" and all the money are not the ones first in line into the "Kingdom of God." Newt and his like represent the sect of greed, sloth, and inhumanity that has permeated for ages under the banner of Christianity.
Ya know, the bible says a lot of things, most utterly ludicrous, but some actually on the money. Jesus taught his followers to give up worldly things, and first and foremost practice charity. Life was lived to help others. He didn't say make billions and billions of dollars for yourself at the expense of millions of your fellow man. If anything, he was one big, long haired hippie socialist. and to close this long post, I quote this from the bible, something I am sure Newtie and his friends seldom read:

Matthew 5:5 "Blessed are the MEEK: for they shall inherit the earth." Not the super rich greedy capitalist doughy pig head, the meek.

[thecrow]

6. Off to the Greatest with you.

Good post!

[madamesilverspurs]

7. Christianity isn't "what you say."

It's "what you DO."

If it doesn't walk like a duck, if it doesn't look like a duck, if it doesn't act like a duck, it could be a skunk seeking office.

[unpossibles]

8. I am not a citizen of the world. I am a citizen of the United States because...

"I am not a citizen of the world. I am a citizen of the United States because only in the United States does citizenship start with our creator."

I guess it's a good thing he just happened to be born here and into the right religion then... <insert eye rolling here>

These assbags don't get it, and much like with wealth they confuse a random act of chance (such as where/to whom you're born) with an act of choice. He did not choose to be an American, he started out as one and stayed here (unfortunately).

[hootinholler]

10. He gets it.

It isn't about historical accuracy for his sphinctitude. It's about lining up the lemmings in Christ to do his bidding.

-Hoot

[RainDog]

9. newt- where in the bible does it tell you to abandon your wife for your mistress?

which verse is the one that says, "yeah, verily I say unto you that he who files for divorce while his wife is undergoing treatment for cancer speaks for Christian values."

where did Jesus say "render unto the ignorant the right to decide issues of science about which they are ignorant."

oh, that must be in the King Newt version.

[CLANG]

11. These christo-fascists need to read the constitution

and show us where it states the US is a "Christian Nation". If they can't do that, then they need to STFU! But of course they won't.

[rasputin1952]

12. I wonder if any of these people ever read the Beatitudes...

One not need to be "religious" to understand what is being said. In fact, almost every society has a philosophy similar to the one cited. In particular, I think old Newt and his buddies Huckabee and North should read 24-26. If they want to talk about God and "retribution", they had best realize they are walking on paper thin ice.


From the Sermon on the Plain:
Luke 6:20-26 (New International Version)

20Looking at his disciples, he said:
"Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God.
21Blessed are you who hunger now,
for you will be satisfied.
Blessed are you who weep now,
for you will laugh.
22Blessed are you when men hate you,
when they exclude you and insult you
and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.

23"Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets.
24"But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.
25Woe to you who are well fed now,
for you will go hungry.
Woe to you who laugh now,
for you will mourn and weep.
26Woe to you when all men speak well of you,
for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets.

The cretins have overlooked the empathy, compassion, forgiveness, understanding and love that is spoken of often in the Bible...they reach for the depths of depravity that is in the book, they seek out ways to hate and destroy...they are evil.

[EnoughOfThis]

15. NOT THE BEATITIUDES

I can appreciate that you may be atheist or hate Christianity and you are free to do that in this country.....of course in the Middle East, you are not permitted to say these things about Islam (you are restricted from even bringing a Bible into Saudi Arabia and gays are marked for death in many Arab countries). However, from a Christian and historic perspective, your revised Sermon on the Mount (whatever the hell "sermon on the plain" is????) is garbage. First of all, it is "Blessed are the poor IN SPIRIT", not blessed are the poor. There is nothing moral about being poor or rich, but it is based on how we act. However, you confidence that everyone is wrong but you, might be a problem, in terms of "spirit". Also, there was no negative Sermon on the mount (23 - 26).....never happened. You may have hope that it did or someone with an agenda may have made it up, but it doesn't exist. This is my problem with the so-called "intelligent design" movement. There is no way that I would want an idiot like you teaching people about my faith.

Feel free to do what you want in life, but don't use my faith to defend yourself.....while criticizing it.

[rasputin1952]

18. well...there are actually 2 Beatitudes...

one from Mark, which you are alluding to, and one from Luke, which is what I used. Mark has it as the Sermon on the Mount, the one most are familiar with; Luke is the more personal of the two, and if you notice, Jesus is speaking to the Disciples, not the multitude.

So, before you accuse me of anything nefarious, please check into this...:)

Also, there is a 11th Commandment...love thy brother as thyself...most people miss that one as well. Unfortunately, people of all political and religious stripes use the writs of each religion to enforce their own beliefs in what has been said/spoken of/written. I am not an atheist, i adhere to what Jesus spoke of, (not Paul either), and try to understand, empathize, help others out of a sense of love and duty to humanity, forgive and above all, try not to be a hypocrite, (that's a tough one from a human point of view by the way). I also try very hard not to judge others, but there are times when that is nearly impossible, as fighting ignorance and hypocrisy is nearly a full time job.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. I fail to see how anybody but a right-winger would be bothered by Rasputin's post.

Since its only purpose was to criticize right-wingers.

[Norrin Radd]

13. Am pretty sure freedom to be a pagan is covered by the First Amendment.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

14. Kick, Rec'd, Bookmarked.

Very Good!

[nichomachus]

16. For a more complete analysis

read "The Godless Constitution" by Isaac Kramnick and R. Laurence Moore, in which they show that the founders deliberately set up a wall of separation because they saw the great harm that sectarianism and religious intolerance by Christians had done in the early days.

Not a terribly long book -- but it shows how any mention of god was deliberately left out of the Constitution. It wasn't an oversight.

[opihimoimoi]

17. Pagans RULE....wonderful ethics and morality, honest, benevolent, caring, sharing,

almost as good as Heathens.

Pagans support Womens Rights,

animal rights

care of the Land, air, sea, lake.

Pagans use Reason, Logic, and Common sense...

Pagans do not use genocide, aggression, and Slaves...