Moron from another message board gives me this response about Unions...

[Postman]

I am not anti/labor. But I don't believe any agency, unions or otherwise should be given blank-check approval. When the union bosses want to do away with the secret ballot,as proposed by EFCA, then I think this should raise red flags. Actually, they would prefer no elections in the first place. Very few members approve of it and it should be taken seriously. You say you are pro/labor. Fine. But why should you believe union bosses, necessarily have your best interests in mind? Whether the sites were created by this one or that one mean nothing. Facts are facts.

[KamaAina]

1. Well, that doesn't reflect particularly well on the teachers' union

:P

[northzax]

2. well, to be fair, he's got a point

it's not relevant to EFCA, of course, but it is a good point. once you are a member of a union, I don't think anyone is opposed to secret balloting for elections (which is what he's talking about) the question at hand is card check to form the union in the first place.

[alfredo]

8. The law as it is written now has the card mailed to the worker. They can

then check it and send it back.

[napi21]

3. EFCA does NOT do away with a secret ballot, it give the workers a choice!

God forbid the {ubs think a choice of ANYTHING is OK!!!

[Ms. Toad]

4. Can the workers choose to require a secret ballot

to form the union?

I belonged to a union for 11 years (the only job I have worked at where it was an option), was in a leadership position, and have been on strike. I am not anti-union.

Some of the union members, however, were also the biggest United Way arm twisters around - and a lot of people donated a buck just to stop the constant pressure to reach 100% participation in the campaign, and some union members donated money in the name of individuals who chose not to donate.

I completely support the option of a card check alternative that permits workers to force the hand of a reluctant employer, but having been the recipient of pressure by union members in connection with United Way (which I refuse to donate to on principle because of their arm twisting tactics), I would also hope workers would also have the right to require a secret ballot so that the union is not formed by virtue of people who sign just to stop the pressure of co-workers. I haven't read every word, but in my quick skim I don't think that choice is guaranteed in the Act.

[goddess40]

5. Arm twisting

There is a big difference between whose doing the arm twisting. The union can twist all it wants but they can't take your job. Management's arm twisting can result in your losing your job.

[Ms. Toad]

9. That didn't answer my question.

And no, they can't take my job (actually, they could for about half of the time I belonged to the union since my supervisor was also a member of the union- but you are correct in most instances). They can, however, make life pretty miserable if I had to work side by side with them day in and day out. I might just sign a card to make my life easier, even if I thought the idea of a union stunk big time. Not everyone thinks unions are a good thing - and that is their right, just as it is my right to belong to one.

[doc03]

10. You are dead wrong, if you don't play ball with

the Union leadership and find yourself in trouble on the job many times the leadership will toss you under the bus. I've worked in a Union shop for over 40 years I've seen it more than once.

[doc03]

12. I too have worked Union jobs for over 40 years

and I oppose the EFCA for that reason. They can deny it all they want but they are taking your right to a secret ballot away. I have also been on strike 3 times totalling over a year off work, so don't give me this your a scab anti-union BS. I have read the law and it does eliminate the secret ballot and subject the workers to harassment from Union thugs. You have management thugs and Union thugs they are still thugs no matter which side they represent.

[HillbillyBob]

14. Mm well if you have a choice to join or not.

I have lived and worked (until disabled) in the South all of my adult life the mere mention of union, even once when I was giving directions to a passerby to the Union Station train station downtown got me fired and the son of a bitch would not believe me then cheated me and about 20 coworkers out of a bunch of overtime, not to mention that even as a journeyman electrician for more than 11 years I could not get paid more than 8.50$ hr. Those same sobs 'offered' benefits, insurance , vacation after 90 days..but they would lay off those with 89 days or find some excuse to fire you no matter how good a job you did. I always showed up ready to work on time. That company that cheated us out of over time was on a job that was on a deadline and we were Required to work 6-12 hr days and 7 on sunday for several months. This was during the runnyraygun years after I got fired as an air traffic controller. Well when the job was finished I left Montg Al and moved to Fla. I went by the Federal courthouse to change my Social Security address and happened to pass the Labor office, lucky me I had my trusty note book where I had written all of my hours down. The labor office went after that company and I did tell him the names of all the other guys on the crew and that we were all cheated, but jobs being scarce in Montgomery, Nazibama at the time were afraid to quit. We all ended up geting a check for almost 3,000. If I had filed for that in Mont I would have either had my legs broke or worse. The contractors all banded together and fixed the pay rates for employees, this was no secret.
Now that I am disabled due in part to a work related injury, if I had been union I would not be trying to live on 9,000$ a year.
We have to do something , anything to get fair wages in the South especially, these sombitches want to go back to slavery days. If you shower after work you aint nothing to the plantation owner wannabes.
Just the fact that EFCA is happening brings much needed attention.

[baldguy]

6. Better a ballot thats not secret than no ballot at all.

Besides, if the workers want a secret ballot then they get a secret ballot.

[Nipper1959]

7. An editorial I wrote for the local paper

The truth about the Employee Free Choice Act

The big lie, that has been told over and over, is that the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) takes the secret ballot away from American workers. Nothing could be further from the truth. Presently, the law allows the employer to make all the choices. The employer can choose to recognize a union when 50% plus 1 worker sign a union card OR the employer can choose to force a ballot requiring a vote in addition to those cards before recognizing the union. Some companies like Harley Davidson and AT&T simply accepted union cards. Most employers, however, choose not to recognize a union without the additional step of requiring a ballot election. Under current law, the choice for workers who want to organize and join a union and the choices as to when the union will be recognized all rest with the employer.

What EFCA does is give the choice to the employees, not the bosses. If 50% plus 1 signs a union card they will be recognized as a union. If 30% of the affected employees choose to have a secret ballot , they all get a secret ballot. The Employee Free Choice Act gives the choice to the people that actually do the work that makes this country run.
Opponents of EFCA say that the union will intimidate and bully workers to join their union. What they conveniently leave out is that presently the employer has the choice in how easy or how difficult to make it for employees who want to organize. Many employers require the second step of a ballot election to use that time to hold mandatory meetings to brow beat employees to vote against a union. Though illegal, frequently workers are fired if they are known to the employer to be union friendly. In extreme cases such as the Wal Mart in Jonquiere, Quebec, Canada the entire business is closed to avoid having to bargain with employees. Without a union, employers are able to fire workers “at will” which allows them in times of “downsizing” to fire the most experienced workers in favor of newer employees who are paid less.

Why do we need unions? The answer lies in the uneven stratification of wealth that has occurred during the past 40 years. The gap between the top 5% and the middle class is greater than at any time in our history. When worker productivity soared in the 70s, 80s and 90s the people that actually did the work did not benefit to the degree that they deserved. Wages for the middle class have remained stagnant and in many cases have declined. Ask yourself this, how many CEOs and high priced executives work without a contract? The answer is none of them do. Why don’t the people that actually make products and provide services deserve the same level of respect and protection?
Some have said that unions cause plants to close, citing the auto industry as an example. Let me point out that less than 10% of the cost of a new vehicle is labor costs, and that includes all costs, health care and retirement included. The fact is that self serving management, more concerned about their stock options than producing a competitive product took their eyes off of the ball and failed to plan long term.

Our American workers are the best in the world. Their work ethic and productivity level is deserving of respect and monetary recognition. The only way for the American worker to claim his/her due is to join together to collectively bargain for fair wages, benefits and working conditions.

[Ms. Toad]

11. Do I have the option

of signing a card choosing to require a secret ballot for formation - or is my only option to sign a card which upon reaching 50% + 1 automatically creates recognition of the union? If it is the former, then the bill has my support. If it is the latter, it does not.

"If 50% plus 1 signs a union card they will be recognized as a union. If 30% of the affected employees choose to have a secret ballot , they all get a secret ballot."

[B Calm]

13. BINGO!

Cheap Labor Cons hate unions because they know when labor sticks together wages and benefits go up!

[ejpoeta]

15. omg you are so right!! my husband was part of an effort to unionize his workplace.

everything was kind of hush hush and i was so worried my husband might lose his job! they had the election, and before that there were all kinds of meetings where the management would lie and say all kinds of things to scare the workers out of voting for a union. in the end, they were like five short. NYC office is unionized though. and i wonder how many of the workers that voted no now regret it... they got no raise and were told they would get no bonus (which they ended up giving them after they saw how pissed off the workers were and feared they would end up with the union next time). well, the workers in our area saw NYC's unionized members get a raise while no one else got one. Also, the employer took all higher level employees who were making more and cut them to level 2 and cut their pay. then they took all level 1's (my husband included) and gave them level 2 and a raising their pay. it was nice to see bob get a raise, but it just wasn't right. and gee, that won't cause hard feelings between workers! i don't know when they'll try for a union again, but bob doesn't seem to enthusiastic about it because of the hassle.

[McCamy Taylor]

16. Engels said that the U.S. would never achieve a socialist worker's revolution

as long as bosses were able to pit citizens against newly arrive immigrants. In the meantime, bosses have found new and creative ways to Divide and Conquer workers. Amazingly, they have created a subclass of workers who think that unions are a bad idea---even though every worker in the US has benefited from the battle waged by unions.

I guess no one is alive now who remembers that in the old days, if you lost an arm on the job that was just too fucking bad. The government did not step in to set up OSHA---or minimum wage standards--out of the goodness of their heart. A lot of brave men and women faced death (from hired assassins employed by the bosses or from state or federal police) in order to get a decent standard of living for the American working class.

One problem is that some workers are persuaded that if they do not join a union, they are more like "bosses". This is especially common in the south.