Language is powerful. I highly encourage everyone to avoid the phrase "partial birth abortion."

[Pacifist Patriot]

There is no such thing.

There are two medical procedures used to terminate a pregnancy, a Dilation and Curettage (D&C) or Dilation and Extraction (D&X). A D&X is always a traumatic medical necessity and devastating event in the life of a woman who wants to have a baby. I try not to use absolute statements if at all possible, but this is one where I feel completely confident. No woman ever elects a D&X and no doctor would perform one for the sole purpose of terminating an unwanted pregnancy.

The conversative think tanks that invented the term "partial birth abortion" to inflame passions for the sake of legislating a private medical decision are complicit in the murders of the few women who tragically require this procedure to survive. And in my opinion, the murders of doctors who provide D&C and D&X.

If anyone thinks language doesn't matter, they aren't paying attention. I overcame the objections to voting for Obama of at least five people because they balked at his opposition to the legal ban of the D&X. They thought he "supported partial birth abortion." When I explained the reality of the situation and encouraged them to research it on their own they all came back furious at having been mislead by language.

Edited to correct spelling.

Don't let zealots control our language.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Correct. nt

[OneGrassRoot]

2. Since there is a plethora of sites discussing this issue....

would you be so kind as to recommend one or two? Googling this subject, especially today, is like a walk through a mine field.

I admit that I'm ignorant about the specifics of these procedures, and it's time I become properly educated.

Thanks in advance. :)

[Pacifist Patriot]

4. This is a good place to start.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_pba.htm

[OneGrassRoot]

10. Thanks much. :) n/t

[OneGrassRoot]

11. delete dupe. n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

3. "Don't let zealots control our language."

Yet, they do control the language. And after buying up all the media, they control the message, too.

[Pacifist Patriot]

6. Precisely why grassroots linguistic activism is so important.

People actually talking to other people can make a difference.

[dem629]

7. Anyone seeking to control the language (or tell people what to say) is likely a zealot....

...and one who is reduced to semantics b/c their position fails on substance.

That's what is so odd about this whole thread. Ah well.

[Pacifist Patriot]

9. Okay, I'm a zealot. I got it. Thanks.

Have a nice day.

[LostinVA]

39. Don't worry about that one, Rev

[Pacifist Patriot]

47. I've been losing sleep over it all day.

[LostinVA]

53. hehehe

[xchrom]

13. being precise -- or emphasizing that being precise is the opposite

of trying to control the language.

so there is nothing odd about this thread -- except in your mind.

[redqueen]

29. Thank you.

What a very strange comment to see here, thanks for so succinctly explaining the situation to them.

[uppityperson]

60. bwahahahahahahahahahahaha

:rofl: Using accurate language is wrong. Gotcha
thanks for the laugh

[LynneSin]

5. Partial Birth Abortion is an anti-choice marketing disinformation

enough said.

[Pacifist Patriot]

8. The 2003 legislation bugged the shit out of me because it is meaningless in practice.

The Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003 prohibits intact dilation and evacuation procedures unless the pregnant woman's life is in danger. DUH!

It was primarily designed to introduce this dumbass phrase into common parlance and put it in black and white on the books. It was to raise the disgust level with respect to the word abortion and serve as a wedge law.

[NYC_SKP]

12. Precisely. "P.B.A." is designed to sound like, "Baby starts to come out, then we stab it to death"

And anyone who says the OP wants to Control our Language is a snarky fool. :eyes:

I get it, great post, thanks.

Recommended.

[raccoon]

14. I strongly agree, and also avoid the term "pro-life." Use "anti-abortion." nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

17. I don't even use either life or abortion when stating my positions.

To me it's either pro-choice or anti-choice / pro-privacy or anti-privacy.

[LostinVA]

40. I use "anti-choice"

[diane in sf]

65. try forced birth

[pnutbutr]

15. D&X is used in third trimester

abortions. The size of the fetus along with the maturation of the bones make D&C difficult if not impossible in some cases. States with no laws prohibiting third trimester abortions do in fact use the D&X technique to abort third trimester fetuses.

[Pacifist Patriot]

16. By using the phrase "used in third trimester abortions" are you...

implying there are other ways to terminate a pregnancy in the third trimester? Or that terminating a pregnancy in the third trimester is elective? This anothe reason why language is important. Because words have connotations as well as denotations.

The Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003, Pub. L. No. 108-105, prohibits intact dilation and evacuation procedures (D & X procedure), commonly known as "partial-birth abortions," unless the pregnant woman's life is in danger. Any person or physician found guilty of violating the Act may be fined or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

So no, states with no laws prohibiting "third trimester abortions" do not in fact use the D&X procedure unless the woman's life is in danger.

Seriously help me understand here. What exactly do you mean by third trimester abortion other than a D&X?

[pnutbutr]

18. Just stating that all third trimester abortions are D&X

There wasn't supposed to be any further implications. It's banned so no third trimester abortions happen anyways unless it falls into the exception.

[mopinko]

21. always so nice to click that little rolodex card, as you say to yourself "wtf"

and find out that the asshole is already wearing the granite hat. i love it here.

[Pacifist Patriot]

51. It took me way too long to figure out what you were talking about.

I had checked the profile earlier pre-TS.

[colinmom71]

58. You're partially correct...

The older D&X (Dilation and eXtraction) abortion procedure is almost never used any longer, though yes it's pretty much the only option in an emergency where the fetus must be sacrificed to save the pregnant woman's health and/or life beyond the second trimester. ID&X is a preferred procedure where the woman has health issues making a D&E (Dilation and Evacuation) more risky during the second trimester. But either way, elective later abortions are not performed absent medical cause due to the elevated risk level to the pregnant woman. (And by saying the term "elective", I mean any procedure that can be scheduled and properly anticipated in regards to the patient's particular health concerns.)

What you said above, about fetal bone density and overall maturity being a factor, is absolutely true. Both D&E's and ID&X's cannot be electively performed on fetuses beyond 26 weeks into the pregnancy. By then, the fetal bones have ossified (hardened and calcified) and are too large to safely deliver through a partially dilated cervix and the vagina. So the claims that "partial birth abortions" are done up to the due date are simply untrue propagandistic fantasy on the part of anti-abortion activists...

You mentioned D&C (Dilation and Curettage) as an abortion procedure above. D&C's haven't been used for elective abortions for over 25 years. First trimester surgical abortions are performed using the safer vacuum suction catheter technique. D&C's are only used as an abortion in cases where the woman experienced an incomplete abortion (usually due to a failed use of RU486 - medical abortion) or in cases of incomplete miscarriage. D&C's are now more commonly used for diagnostic purposes to look for intrauterine growths or problems.

As to third trimester abortions, they're almost never done due to the health risks to the patient. They're only done when there is an emergency during delivery (undiagnosed hydrocephaly being the most likely) or in cases of a diagnosed fetal demise. But most troubled third trimester pregnancies are dealt with by hospitalization, induction of labor, and not seeking any life-preserving measures for the infant once born. It's just the medically safest way to treat the pregnant woman and to preserve her health and reproductive ability beyond the troubled pregnancy....

[stray cat]

19. It can clearly be called a late stage abortion or abortion in the last trimester

[Pacifist Patriot]

27. It can. I am quibbling with "partial birth abortion"

I actually prefer to use medically correct terminology when referring to a procedure that terminates a pregnancy because the word 'abortion' has acquired the connotation of an elective procedure to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. But I have no real objection to the word 'abortion' itself. It's the phrase "partial birth abortion" that makes my teeth hurt because of the intent with which it was manufactured, the raw emotions it was designed to engender and the misinformation it propogates.

[omega minimo]

20. kR #5. Well put. More propaganda from the Haters.

[Odin2005]

22. I was born 2 months premature and late-term abortions really bother me because of that.

Maybe I just don't understand the medical issues but why not just deliver the baby? If it's at least 6 months it has a good chance of surviving. I know I get flamed for posting this but it REALLY bothers me.

[LadyHawkAZ]

23. Because...

Because abortions performed at that stage and especially by D&X are not going to live. That's the long and short of it. It's for a fetus with severe birth defects that will not only kill it after birth but will severely damage the mother if the birth is done naturally.

[Lisa0825]

26. Welcome to DU!

Good explanation. That gets left off whenever the MSM talks about it!

[redqueen]

30. Thank you, and welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Odin2005]

33. Thank you for correcting my ignorance.

Wish I could rec individual posts!

[LadyHawkAZ]

34. Thanks

for the warm welcome. :)

Odin, at least you ASKED. Too many people don't bother. Thank you for that.

[Pacifist Patriot]

37. I agree. Nothing wrong with asking questions.

[Odin2005]

42. You're welcome!

:hi:

[Pacifist Patriot]

An important point that many people miss is not that a full-term birth...

of a compromised fetus would damage the mother if she delivered vaginally, but that the other option of removing the fetus via C-section will compromise the mother's future reproductive health.

If the fetus needs to be removed at say 34 weeks, the average woman would have six additional weeks of uterine growth. Think of the uterus as a balloon and imagine making an incision in a balloon that is only partially inflated and patching that cut. Then reinflating the balloon to it's full capacity. The incision site is likely to rupture when the balloon is inflated beyond the size it was when the incision was made.

A woman is more likely to be able to carry subsequent pregnancies to term if she has a D&X than if she has a C-section.

[Odin2005]

44. Very good point!

[colinmom71]

45. Thank you for mentioning this....

My son was born at 24 weeks via C-section (only choice available if we wanted to give him a chance to survive, as well as for my own health threats at the time). As a result, I'm at such a high risk for uterine rupture during a subsequent pregnancy that my doctor has advised what we'd already decided - no more pregnancies. Our disabled son will remain our only child.

[uppityperson]

61. Thank you for the good explanation and welcome to DU. nt

[Lyric]

25. Because late term abortions are only used for medical reasons.

Either to save the life/health of a mother who cannot tolerate the strain and recovery from an actual birth, or because there's something wrong with the fetus that makes it incompatible with life.

For an example of the first--a woman with severe diabetes who cannot properly heal from the c-section incision that would be required in order to deliver the fetus alive, and who also cannot tolerate the extended labor contractions and vascular stress of "pushing" required to deliver vaginally. A D&X can remove the fetus without nearly as much strain on the mother's body as actual labor would produce.

For an example of the second--a severely hydrocephalic fetus, or one with a genetic disorder that would equal pain and death shortly after birth.

Sometimes there truly is no choice. The saddest fact about late-term abortions is that the vast, vast majority of those babies were WANTED. It's truly heartbreaking.

[Pacifist Patriot]

31. I won't flame you, but I do think you need some education regarding the procedure.

This is a good place to start.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_pba1.htm

"They are also very rarely performed in late pregnancy. The most common justifications at that time are: The fetus is dead.
The fetus is alive, but continued pregnancy would place the woman's life in severe danger.
The fetus is alive, but continued pregnancy would grievously damage the woman's health and/or disable her.
The fetus is so malformed that it can never gain consciousness and will die shortly after birth. Many which fall into this category have developed a very severe form of hydrocephalus.

The women who have this procedure are not electing to have one. They are being counseled that it is in their best interests medically. No doctor will suggest one without having exhausted all other options and no woman will subject herself to one without experiencing severe emotional and psychological trauma.

A pre-term C-Section compromises the integrity of the uterus and can result in a rupture if the woman carries a subsequent fetus to term. Hence, the trauma of a D&X.

[Lisa0825]

24. I have frequently corrected people on that term!

I even got into a debate with a statewide candidate over whether it mattered, and he ended up agreeing with me!

[redqueen]

28. Too late, they've been controlling it for decades.

It's way past time to stop going along with them and assisting them in this kind of manipulation.

[Pacifist Patriot]

32. I know it feels like it, but I have had amazing success in getting people...

I know to reevaluate their use of and receptivity to language precisely because of this example. It is a glaring one that disturbs people when their eyes are opened and they find out how easily they were manipulated.

[LostinVA]

35. Exactly -- even though the head of the DNC uses it

Just one of many reasons why I dislike Kaine.

There is no such thing -- it's propaganda as much as "homosexual agenda" is.

[Pacifist Patriot]

38. Speaking of....

I'm still waiting for my honorary toaster.

[LostinVA]

41. Darn Williams & Sonoma!!!

[bvar22]

36. Also avoid the term "Pro-Abortion".

I live in a very rural and conservative part of the country with many fundamental Christian Churches.
In conversations with the locals, I use a Libertarian frame for my opposition to Laws restricting "Choice".
I OPPOSE "Growing the Government even larger" to include new police depts (to watch women and doctors), new courtrooms, and new prisons to house the new criminals.

I OPPOSE new "Government Intrusions" into our lives. The "good christian women" will have to be watched too in order to catch the "bad" ones.

I will confront anyone who tries to brand me as "Pro-Abortion".
I am NOT "Pro-Abortion".
I am "Anti-Larger and More Intrusive Government".
"They are already wasting my tax money.
I don't want them wasting even more with new police to watch women and doctors."

This argument has been VERY EFFECTIVE in the area I live in.
The argument is true to an extent.
I AM anti-abortion in my heart, but VERY Pro-Choice as far as the LAW.
The government has NO BUSINESS getting between a woman and her doctor to dictate personal decisions.

Just as the Helath Insurance Industry has NO BUSINESS getting between me and my doctor.

On Edit:
I don't know anyone who is "Pro-Abortion".
That term should NEVER be used by anyone who is "Pro-Choice".
No one should allow themselves to be branded as "Pro-Abortion".
I will stop the conversation until the correction is made.

I will do the same for the term "Democrat Party".
I will stop the conversation and make the correction.
Until the user says the correct term, "Democratic Party", that conversation goes no further.
(I do so nicely...not all huffy and offended.
...more flies with sugar etc.)

[LostinVA]

43. Yup, I always say,"I'm pro choice, and I'm against poor women dying because of anti-choice laws."

Also, depending on the person,"When men can get pregnant, then they may get to pass and enforce laws against women's reproductive rights. Until then..."

I also answer people who say,"I'm against having abortions," with "Then don't ahve one. That's your choice."

[aikoaiko]

46. I ask this sincerely

If D&X is only used on women who wanted to birth baby except for the danger to their health and D&X is used typically in the third trimester, why don't they use c-section instead?

Having asked that question, I agree that is is useful to avoid the phrase partial birth abortion.


edited to add: I see from subsequent posts some of the reasons why.

[Pacifist Patriot]

48. That's a common question and an important one for fully understanding...

the scope of the issue. I hope others see my explanation above as well.

Cheers.

[colinmom71]

52. Actually, D&X is more typically done during the second trimester....

D&X procedures performed during the third trimester are extremely rare, to the point of being statistically non-existent. These are done only when the fetus has a deformity (often a late diagnosis of hydrocephalus) so severe that either vaginal birth or a C-section would have a detrimental impact upon the woman's health and future reproductive ability.

But, a D&X or an ID&X is mostly used to terminate pregnancies between 18-26 weeks, and these are almost always in cases where the parents have received the sad news that their expected baby has a genetic disorder or a medical disorder that is incompatible with life outside the womb. The alternative procedure during the second trimester is the D&E, which is more common that the D&X and ID&X because it is only contraindicated for women with health issues making that simpler procedure unadvisable or for patients who would prefer a more intact fetus for remembrance ad burial purposes...

[krispos42]

49. "death tax", "partial-birth abortions", "assault weapons", "tax relief"

"wealth redistribution", "reverse racism"... all fine examples of perjorative, framing terms.

[Blue_Roses]

50. so true...

I cringe when I hear the zealots scream this. The word is used to stir emotion and it does, however, the lack of truth in this is astounding. I guess I should be used to these wackos by now but when something happens like it did yesterday, it makes it difficult.

I also hate the term, "pro-abortion" because no one is "pro-abortion". That makes it sound like women just jump up singing, "let's go have an abortion today..." and nothing could be farther from the truth.

[hayu_lol]

55. It sometimes helps to revisit the history...

of what is now called 'late term' abortions.

Up to about 75 years ago, most births occurred in the home in a less than sanitary situation. Doctors made home visits provided they could arrive in time. Births took place in beds or sometimes on a kitchen table.

When things went wrong, as sometimes happens, they had little equipment to save the situation. C-sections were generally not done in the home except to save the infant(if possible)before the mother died. There were no wonder drugs to prevent infection back in those days.

All doctors in those days carried a cranioplast--a bladed device used to crush the skull of the infant if the head was too large or the cervix did not dialate sufficiently for passage. Once the skull was crushed, the remains were delivered by forceps.

The anti's seem to have forgotten that while medical science has made considerable progress, there are times when only the late term procedure can save the life of the mother.

The same memory lapses made by those who do not vaccinate their offspring, forgetting that the diseases prevented used to kill entire families(as late as the late 30s).

Late term is an old old procedure and is only used today when it is absolutely necessary.

[Blue_Roses]

57. exactly...and interesting because

when I had my daughter, I had been told by my doctor that I was "going to make this look easy (regarding the birth)..." Fifteen hours later, I was whisked into surgery for a C-section because she could not get through the birth canal--second child, same thing. I asked the nurse what happened to women years ago when they didn't have the hospital or doctor to do the C-section and she said the same thing--they crushed the skull in order to save the mother, but often the mother still died.

[stubertmcfly]

54. Others to avoid

"Pro-Life" should be "Anti-choice"
"Murdered" or "Killed" in regard to Dr. Tiller should be "assassinated"

[Raksha]

56. K & R

[yellowcanine]

59. Wing nuts invent their own language. Case in point: "death tax". Up until the early 1990s it was

always the "estate tax" which is much more accurate. Deaths are not taxed but estates are. But "death tax" sounds so much more like something one should be against.

[mamaleah]

62. Agreed and also

it helps to remind people that D&X is not something people ever elect to have just because they have pregnancy/parenthood cold feet. It's done due to problems with the fetus (as in the fetus is not viable) or that the pregnancy is a danger to the mother's health.

[Wednesdays]

63. K&R

:kick:

[xchrom]

64. kick