***OFFICIAL PRESIDENT OBAMA/DARTH CHENEY "Duel" Thread

[shadowknows69]

Tweety on MSNBC now

[shadowknows69]

1. Tweety now mentioning the terror suspects arrested yesterday

[shadowknows69]

2. Andrea Mitchell calling our President, "Barack Obama", so is Tweety

You fail Journalism 101 Andrea and Chris. You address our statesmen and women by their proper titles.

[shadowknows69]

3. Pukechanan just said Cheney is winning the debate hands down

Anybody out there in DU land today?

[ShortnFiery]

6. The "freaked out" part of me wonders if Pat is part cyborg like Dick?

Damn, how old are they?!? Perhaps it just seems like they've been around FOREVER? :shurg:

[shadowknows69]

9. I hear ya. All my former schoolteachers are like that too

And Terminator: Salvation comes out this weekend. Coincidence?

[ShortnFiery]

15. Too funny. As I getr older, seemingly all my "irritating" blood relations are still kicking ...

while the "sweet, warm hearted ones" have broken the mortal coil.

I'd like to believe that Our Higher Power need more of their goodness in Heaven because all The Ghouls are certainly NOT in Hades. :evilgrin:

Hey Dear Lord? Some of us trying to BEHAVE could use some help down here? :silly:

[Psychic Consortium]

109. Help is on the way......

Things are going to change in this country in a very big way. Stay tuned. Will be very interesting.

We are going to be a more evolved society and move into the 21st century. It will happen and soon.
We now have adult, wise leadership.

[mrcheerful]

11. Remember the Carter/Reagan debates? Where Carter threw something up that Reagan said

and Reagan then claimed he never said it or he answered with "well there they go again"? Carter actually won the debates but the media back then declared Reagan the winner and the sheeple believed the media. We seen them pull this how many times since 1979 and we are surprised that they are once again projecting their beliefs on a debate?

[EmeraldCityGrl]

4. I'm turning off my TV

This is absolute bullshit.

[shadowknows69]

5. I hope President Obama goes long on his speech

How much you want to bet that FOX will preempt him for Cheney?

[ShortnFiery]

8. It would take President Obama to speak in order to steer me away from Stephenie Miller.

:silly:

[rocktivity]

12. I was about to start griping because he's fifteen minutes late

And I have to leave for work in fifteen minutes more. But you just made me realize that his tardiness might have an ulterior motive!

:think:
rocktivity

[shadowknows69]

14. Yep, love it. Sadly it gives Darth longer to tweak his vile words.

[Stephanie]

30. I don't recall him being late before, do you?

:)

[malaise]

24. Best news yet - he's starting late

GObama.

[shadowknows69]

25. He just on his way. Tweety says they have a transcript but they can't release it.

[shadowknows69]

7. Can I get some recs up in here?

This used to be a community that suffered speeches together.

[EFerrari]

10. LOL! I'll suffer the speech with you.

:hi:

[shadowknows69]

13. Thanks, I think this will be an important one. Even Darth's follow up

Our current President and the guy who thinks he still is putting it all on the table. Obama knows what Cheney is going to come out with so he has to say something definitive.

[Hepburn]

18. I gave ya #4....

....this thread should be on the Greatest Page, IMO.

[Hepburn]

16. Why in the hell is Obama lowering himself to debate a war criminal?

Not necessary, IMO.

And Pat Buchanan: STFU!

[shadowknows69]

17. Holy shit Pat just spoke the truth there for a second.

[Hepburn]

19. I musta missed it....

...what did the asshole say?

:shrug:

[shadowknows69]

20. He said that the Bush's policy of propaganda was to keep getting us into war after war

Even a broken clock is right two times a day? :shrug:

[Hepburn]

22. Wow....

...no shit...Pat actually spoke the truth for once! Thanks for the info.

:hi:

[ShortnFiery]

23. Lawrence O'Donnell is setting Tweety Straight, but he continues to spittle and fear-monger.

Newsflash Folks: We have EVIL Tweety today. "Thar's a terrorist under every bed! Oh my! These are BAD people not just 'a mixed bag' of boat people." Yeah Tweety, STFU for half a second so you can wipe the drool from you chin. :eyes: :puke:

[malaise]

21. For the record when former VP Al Gore

spoke in 2006 about the Constitutional crisis on MLKs birthday, the media gave him 30 second sound bites. There was no live coverage anywhere.

[Hepburn]

26. Well....

...with the MSM, it's probably that Darth is speaking is the reason for the live coverage.

:sarcasm: ... maybe, but maybe not.

[ShortnFiery]

32. They are trying their little corporate hearts out to FEAR-MONGER the American

Populace.

Why? They're less than human because they are supposedly our enemies? We can't TRUST our judicial system to try them because they're so damn wiley? Really M$M? That's the best you've got?

[ShortnFiery]

27. Shit now Andrea is dis'sing Obama for not having a SPECIFIC plan. OMG does he have to

plan every damn thing!?!

Where's Keith and Rachel? :(

[Hepburn]

33. The MSNBC probably figure that Tweety is a librul...

...so that is enough! :hi:

[OneGrassRoot]

28. I know, can you imagine if Gore or ANYONE from prior administrations...

was so visibly arguing with Bush early on, to the point of having televised "responses"?

Holy crap, everyone would have imploded. Cheney probably would have sent one of his death squads after the person.

[rocktivity]

29. I'm pissed because I have to leave for work in ten minutes

and figured I'd have heard most of the speech by now. But if Obama's doing it to screw with Cheney's coverage, I forgive him! Just make sure it's on YouTube by 1PM, LOL!

:headbang:
rocktivity

[kjackson227]

31. I'm at work, so hopefully you guys will be VERY detailed in your...

assessments of what's going down. I'll be streaming the President's speech for sure, but not sure if I can stomach the Dickster's.

[riverdeep]

35. He's ON.

[shadowknows69]

34. Starting now, pleasantries and introductions.

[Hepburn]

36. The audio sucks...

...bad echoing.

[Subdivisions]

37. Thanks for the thread, shadow! n/t

[shadowknows69]

38. Much optimism, praising Congress

[onehandle]

39. I like the venue. Republicans believe in nothing in that building.

Except for the right to carry machine guns into elementary schools.

[shadowknows69]

40. I'm not liking the direction of this so far

9/11, take all steps to protect you, taking the fight to the extremists; WMD WMD WMD. Strange feeling of Deja Vu.

[Mari333]

43. gmta yep

[ShortnFiery]

50. He has to be DADDY partially because Cheney is going to seriously fear-monger.

I hate to admit it because I want these two occupations to end NOW, but Obama is being smart. There are many POWERFUL interests in D.C. I'd even venture to surmise that many of Cheney's crones are still embedded at the highest level of our government.

But he's now highlighting OUR VALUES.

That is truly what makes American Great. Why my dad gave so many years of his life as a Combat Engineer in the Army.

Keep at it Obama! You got this ... even if your speed doesn't make me happy ... he's thinking LONG TERM.

[shadowknows69]

51. I'm happier with what I'm hearing now. I want to hear solid promises of policy too.

[Mari333]

41. oh christ. so far this sounds like deja vu

[Hepburn]

46. Yep....

...it's seems too much like what I have heard in the past ~~ but with big words and a better delivery.

[Hepburn]

42. I am having this picture of Darth keeling over....

...:wow:

Edit to add: In my mind.

[malaise]

49. Now I would watch that

:evilgrin:

[Hepburn]

55. ....

....got my recorder ready....just in case!

:hi:

[riverdeep]

44. Paraphrase.

The first I think about when I wake up in the morning is national security, and the last thing when I sleep. We know that AQ is still trying to attack us. Will secure lose nukes. Secure our border. Renewed American diplomacy. etc.

In the long run can't keep the country safe without documents like the constitution etc.

[spanone]

45. cheney, the criminal private citizen and President Obama, the popular president

Presidents don't debate criminals

[Hepburn]

47. My thoughts exactly.

Look upstream on this thread and that is what I said.

GMTA...:hi:

[spanone]

54. great minds!!!!!

morning Hep!!!! :toast: :toast:

[Hepburn]

59. Heya....

...:hi:

G' Mornin' back at cha!

[shadowknows69]

48. Shit got a phone call and just missed a bunch.

[ShortnFiery]

52. Decisions made out of fear rather than foresight ... season of fear

[Hepburn]

53. I cannot believe he said that the decisions after 911 were motivated by...

...a desire to protect.

I don't think BushCo thought that way for a 1/10 of a second.

[ShortnFiery]

57. Yeah, but he's following up with upholding our VALUES such as the rule of law ...

checks and balances ... and accountability.

[Hepburn]

66. That part was good...

...and the rest seems to be back on track now ~~ why the nation turned down the Irrelephants last November. We have had enough and torture is WRONG.

This is going good now. :hi:

[Mari333]

58. yeah no kidding!!! nt

[Mari333]

well at least hes saying both parties went off course

[riverdeep]

56. Paraphrase.

We must not turn our back on these documents, not only for ideals but for safety. Our values have been our best asset. It's the reason we've outlasted communism. We've been the nation that has shut down torture chambers. after 911, we entered a new era. we needed new tools. unfortunately, our gov made a mistake. they made decisions based on fear rather than facts. during this time, to many went silent. the voters wanted a new approach, one that closed guantomo bay and ended torture.

[shadowknows69]

60. Yes this is good stuff.

Saying waterboarding doesn't keep us safe. WOOT!

[ShortnFiery]

65. Obama states that he bares the responsibility for keeping us safe.

"Enhanced Interrogation Methods" FAILED

[yodermon]

61. "I banned torture" FUCK THAT. IT was *already* banned BY LAW.

I categorically reject that you banned anything god dammit.

[shadowknows69]

64. Good point, but he gets point if he made it stop.

[Mari333]

62. you banned TORTURE Obama...TORTURE

[shadowknows69]

67. It is important that he disposes of that bullshit term IMO

[Subdivisions]

63. Waterboarding is torture. n/t

[ShortnFiery]

68. "These methods are NOT who we are and they are NOT American." nt

[shadowknows69]

69. He's saying what needs to be said, but some of his actions are contrary to that IMO

He should fully support prosecutions of the people that broke these laws.

[ShortnFiery]

71. I'm hoping upon hope that he's truly "playing chess" and "rope a dope" ...

The right wing is downright *crazy* and many of them still hold high office. :shrug:

[riverdeep]

70. Paraphrase.

a series of steps were taken, first I banned the use of enhanced interogation. now, some would say that this is what keeps us safe, i reject that. i see the intelligence reports and i'm the one that keeps us safe. it harms our troops, it breaks the rule of law. even under bush, there were people who said this was wrong. we need to leave these methods in the past.

the second decision was to order the closing of gauntoamo. during the entire time, only three convictions happened in seven years. in 2006 the SC rejected the system. before i took office, two thirds were already released. our gov was establishing something beyond the law, the SC rejected this.

[shadowknows69]

72. It isn't just GITMO that is "creating more enemies than we've detained"

It's bombing civilians in Pakistan and Afghanistan and our continued presence in and control of Iraq and our inevitable course of having a permanent garrison there.

[ShortnFiery]

75. Yes, we need to cease and desist with "predator drones" and our not so "smart bombings"

which only serves to create more terrorists than we claim to kill.

[shadowknows69]

73. Did he just call me a "wild eyed librul"

Bad form Mr. President.

[netania99]

77. Didn't he call us "bleeding heart liberals" once?

Sigh ...

[Mari333]

78. I think he was mocking what people call us

not actually calling us that.

[Subdivisions]

79. No, he was mocking those that mock liberals. n/t

[Mari333]

74. good, hes calling out Bush admin as the culprits

and the mess.

[Hepburn]

76. GOBAMA!!!

Paraphrase: "The problem was caused by the decision to open Gitmo in the first place."

:applause:

Putting the blame where it belongs ~~ on the BushCo War Criminals!

[riverdeep]

80. Paraphrase.

third decision, order a review of all pending cases. 240 people have now spent years in legal limbo. we are cleaning up a mess, we don't have any luxury. the legal debates taking place would be taking place whether i closed guan or not. these problems are here not because i'm closing it, but because it was opened in the first place. we can't just pretend these problems will go away. its my responsibility to not let this problem fester.

over the last several weeks, we've seen the concerns that have consumed us over the last several years. i want to solve these problems, not engage in fear mongering. i've heard word that are calculated to scare rather than protect.

[ShortnFiery]

81. "I've heard words calculated to SCARE people rather than to EDUCATE them." nt

[Mari333]

82. "I'll leave that to others"

which means litigation should be done to the perpetrators of the war crimes of the last 8 yrs but he hasnt the time for it.
at least he said 'leave it to others'

[shadowknows69]

87. Fine, he can direct his Attorney General to take care of that for him

It's all on you Holder. What are you waiting for?

[Subdivisions]

83. 'We will not release anyone that is a threat to national security.'

Looks like SuperMax is in consideration.

[ShortnFiery]

84. "Transfer to highly secure prisons that will ensure our safety." nt

[shadowknows69]

85. We will not release any detainees that are a threat to National Security

And that will be determined how Mr. President?

[Hepburn]

86. Obama's plan:

Use the Feddie Super Max prisons ~~ no one has ever escaped.

These already hold terrorists ~~ calls out Graham on his bullshit and lies about this.

[Subdivisions]

88. Youssef, Moussaui trials in U.S. courts and being held in U.S. prisons. n/t

[shadowknows69]

89. Talking about trials for detainees, oops, just some of them apparently.

But this isn't a war Mr. President. What country did Congress declare war on?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

90. He's called out Fuckface by name -

I don't ever recall him doing that before, using the name.

Excellent.

He just threw it down - bite me, Cheeney.........................

[Hepburn]

92. Good job on doing that....

...I was wondering by Obama would debate Darth WarCriminal...and now I think I am seeing why.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

96. He's not going near Cheeney ......

He will not lower himself. He just fucked up coverage of Cheeney AEI speech - closed to the public, by the way - and our President has the floor.

Remember that flicking-off gesture during the primaries?

Well, he's doing it again, totally trumping Cheeney.

And at the National Archives - one of my favorite spots in Washington, no less.................

[Mari333]

91. oh a kinder gentler military tribunal

pfft. try them all in american courts.

[shadowknows69]

93. Military commission trials will allow detainees to choose council

Will oversee that the law is upheld. This is what I need to hear. This is what needs to be done.

[shadowknows69]

94. Five Categories of detainee? Well, lets not make this complicated or anything.

Here we come to the "detained indefinitely without trial" category.

[Mari333]

99. oh brother.

this is a mess and his advisors are coming up with these categories to somehow justify holding people without trial.
i dont buy it. no holding detainees without trial, period.

[Mari333]

95. I wish he could say

that the clearest danger to the american people is the National Security State.

[ShortnFiery]

98. He can't because Obama's on the hook to "make the system work."

I am impressed by what I've heard so far, and unlike some here, I'm not easily impressed ... even by the highly intelligent and charismatic Obama.

Obama is IMO, "spot on" today. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

"If we continue to make decisions in a climite of fear, we will make more mistakes." :applause:

[riverdeep]

97. Paraphrase.

we are not going to release anyone if it would endanger national security. but we might transfer detainees just like other dangerous criminals. no one has ever escaped from a supermax. like lindsey graham said, the idea that we can't find a place for these people is not rational. now, in the past, some detainees were released only to return to the battelfield.

they will fall into five categories. one is the ones that can be tried in our own courts. like yamase youreff (sp.) if we can try those terrorists in our courts, we can do that with anyone. we are tranferring a detainee to new york. if we don't, it would prevent his trial and conviction

second, the ones who violate the laws of war, these will be tried in military commisions. sensitive info can be presented here. this is not a backtrack. i did go against it, when they were set up poorly. we will no longer accept testimony that has been acheived thru torture. or thru hearsay. and they will have greater leeway in selecting counsell

the third is the ones who have been ordered to be released by the courts. let me say that this is up to the courts-the rule of law. i too am bound by the law

the fourth is the ones that can be transferred to another country. so far there is fifty.

the fifth is the ones who can't be prosecuted but who pose a danger. this one is the toughest. for example evidence that was acheived thru bad means. i am not going to release those that are a danger regardless. having said that, these detention policies cannot just be unbounded. we are reshaping the boundreis. we still must have guidelines for even this category.

[alsame]

100. OMG - I'm not the only person who swore to uphold the

Constitution, so did Congress. :wow:

[ShortnFiery]

101. Oh, SNAP. Are you listening Harry Reid?!? Stop fear-mongering. nt

[Muttocracy]

106. liked that line - it applies to Cheney too! nt

[Mari333]

102. call it TORTURE Obama...its not enhanced interrogation

[Optical.Catalyst]

108. Enhanced Interrogation is a code word invented by Republicans. We need to stop using it

Call it what it is:

Torture

[shadowknows69]

103. Starting thread #2 here

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5695579>

[Hepburn]

104. Thanks....will go and K&R....n/t

[riverdeep]

105. Paraphrase.

going forward, we will develop a framework that is consistent with our values.

these are issues that are perfect for political hay, but if we make decisions in a climate of fear, we will pay for it later. i am not the only person in this city that swore an oath to the constitution.

now here is a second set of issues that is related to transparency. we have to balance transparency with security. several weeks ago, i released memos not because i disagreed with them, but the techniuques were widely known and those techniques are no longer used, so the info is useless. on the other hand, i did not release the photos. the individuals in those photos have been taken care of. but in this case, they could have been used to inflame our enemies. i have a responsibilty to our troops. these two cases seem contradictory, but not to me. i had to balance the two forces, and that was my decision. i understajnd there is a thirst for transparency because of the past. but i have never argued and never will that our most sensitive info can be released.

however, a difference is that i myself will have oversight. other branches of gov will check over my decisions. someone will have to watch the wathcers.

STOPPING NOW, MY HAND HURTS```

[yy4me]

107. Dick--Dick,--HEY DICK! Go away, take your venom with you. n/t