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The New Republic thinks Obama's war on terror is fabulous.

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 12:41 AM
Original message
The New Republic thinks Obama's war on terror is fabulous.
Edited on Thu May-21-09 12:58 AM by Bluebear
...During the campaign former professor Obama spoke eloquently about the importance of habeas corpus review of executive detentions of enemy soldiers. Habeas corpus is "the foundation of Anglo-American law" and "the essence of who we are," he said. But his administration has applied this principle in the same narrow fashion as the late Bush administration. It has argued that Guantanamo detainees can challenge the "fact, duration, or location" of confinement on habeas review, but not their "conditions of confinement." It has maintained that "the Geneva Conventions are not judicially enforceable by private individuals" in habeas proceedings. And it has made clear its belief that the limited habeas rights it recognizes for the two hundred or so detainees on Guantanamo Bay do not extend to the 600 or so detainees in Bagram Air Base. This latter position might prove more controversial for President Obama than for President Bush. The new president's enlarged military commitment in Afghanistan and Pakistan, combined with the forthcoming closure of Guantanamo, means that the number of suspects detained in Bagram--without charge or trial and without access to lawyers or habeas rights--is likely to increase, perhaps dramatically....

Targeted killing is another Bush administration policy being continued, and indeed ramped up, by President Obama. The new administration has used unmanned predator drones to kill suspected al Qaeda targets in Afghanistan and Pakistan at a greater rate than the Bush administration. These more aggressive targeted killings have predictably caused more collateral damage to innocent civilians. In what appears to be the worst episode since 9/11, a predator attack earlier this month killed many dozens of civilians, including many women and children, in the Farah province of Afghanistan. The targeted killing policy has grown very controversial in Afghanistan and among human rights groups. The International Committee of the Red Cross maintains that international law permits targeting only of people "continuously" engaged in hostile actions, and that only "necessary" force can be used against them. This standard would require a significant rollback of the Obama targeted killing program. It is thus not surprising that the Obama State Department views the Red Cross restrictions as "problematic."...

The main difference between the Obama and Bush administrations concerns not the substance of terrorism policy, but rather its packaging. The Bush administration shot itself in the foot time and time again, to the detriment of the legitimacy and efficacy of its policies, by indifference to process and presentation. The Obama administration, by contrast, is intensely focused on these issues....

President Obama, by contrast, entered office with great stores of credibility in speaking about the dangers of terrorism and the difficulties of meeting the terror threat. The new president was a critic of Bush administration terrorism policies, a champion of civil liberties, and an opponent of the invasion of Iraq. His decision (after absorbing the classified intelligence and considering the various options) to continue core Bush terrorism policies is like Nixon going to China. Because the Obama policies play against type and (in some quarters of his party) against interest, they appear more likely to be a necessary response to a real terror threat and thus less worrisome from the perspective of presidential aggrandizement than when the Bush administration embraced essentially the same policies.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=1e733cac-c273-48e5-9140-80443ed1f5e2&p=1
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. I always make sure I post the authors. Why don't you?
And BTW, is there anything he's done that you like? I know, there's stuff he hasn't done that I abhor, but really.

Yea, he basically sucks. He's not gettin' it done!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why don't you comment on the article and stop bitching me out about how I post?
"you didn't post the author", that's all you got out of that article?

Sorry, I remain committed to human rights, not an individual politician.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Why Barack Obama is waging a more effective war on terror than George W. Bush
Edited on Thu May-21-09 01:17 AM by babylonsister
By Jack Goldsmith...

And BTW, war sucks and I don't have a clue what's right or just. I really don't, bb.

I didn't do this to annoy you.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Military tribunals continuing, no convictions of anybody in the Bush administration...
Babylonsister, it's not that I am not giving Obama more time to get things done, it's all of the things that have already been announced and I am officially appalled.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. You sound pretty pissed off.
Don't shoot the messenger just because the news is bad. Face it. President Obama has kept a few of the bad Bush policies. Nobody is perfect. No need to get touchy about it.
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Of course! Because if you don't post the author's name
people can't start with ad hominem attacks!
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm sorry, but I'm kind of confused by one minor thing.
What do they mean by, "the Geneva Conventions are not judicially enforceable by private individuals?"
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. They're speaking specifically to the context of habeas corpus.
They're saying that abductees cannot use claims of habeas corpus to bring complaints about abuses before a court if the complaints are not pertinent to the wheres and whys of the custody.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. So that isn't saying anything that isn't in the previous sentence, then?
Edited on Thu May-21-09 01:58 AM by Occam Bandage
Again, not implying anything, just asking for a clarification. I don't understand the link between limiting Habeas rights to reason and location of confinement (and not conditions of confinement) and the phrase "not judicially enforceable by private individuals."
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. It's just the way they broke it down in the petition.
They wanted to argue the point from multiple angles:


. . . The habeas statute can be used only to challenge the fact, duration, or
location of confinement, not conditions of confinement. Moreover, Congress has
recently and unambiguously precluded reliance on or invocation of the Geneva
Conventions in habeas cases or in any other civil action; the Military Commissions Act of
2006 (“MCA”) reflects the well-established principle that the Geneva Conventions are
not judicially enforceable by private individuals. Despite both the statute and case law,
petitioners seek a preliminary injunction addressing conditions of confinement at
Guantanamo Bay and enforcing their view of the Geneva Conventions. . .
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I understand now.
Edited on Thu May-21-09 02:18 AM by Occam Bandage
"Congress has recently and unambiguously precluded reliance on or invocation of the Geneva Conventions in civil action" is what links the two concepts. Thanks for your patience.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. I'm not finding them "less worrisome," personally....
...but then, I don't really trust the Executive Branch as an institution,, in any case...
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
12. K&R
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