Life Goes On Without Cars

[handmade34]

a dream of mine

this in Germany...
"Street parking, driveways and home garages are generally forbidden in this experimental new district on the outskirts of Freiburg, near the French and Swiss borders. Vauban’s streets are completely “car-free” — except the main thoroughfare, where the tram to downtown Freiburg runs, and a few streets on one edge of the community. Car ownership is allowed, but there are only two places to park — large garages at the edge of the development...
...“All of our development since World War II has been centered on the car, and that will have to change,” said David Goldberg, an official of Transportation for America, a fast-growing coalition of hundreds of groups in the United States — including environmental groups, mayors’ offices and the American Association of Retired People — who are promoting new communities that are less dependent on cars. Mr. Goldberg added: “How much you drive is as important as whether you have a hybrid.”...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/science/earth/12suburb.html?_r=1

http://geography.about.com/b/2009/05/14/a-successful-car-free-suburb.htm?nl=1

love Matt Rosenburg... if your interested in Geography-

[SteelPenguin]

1. Love it

I'd be curious to see what would happen if they did that somewhere around the U.S. I would imagine that if they set up something like that in northern New Jersey say, where the center of 'town' was a rail link into New York City, with a tram running down the main 'street', and a parking garage at the other end of it, but the rest pedestrian...I bet it'd fill up real quick.

I'm sure there will be people that would slam this, but I've lived in a few situations that came close to this and it was really incredible. I've also lived in situations where it would take you half a day to walk to the grocery store and cars were absolutely necessary. Too many people are addicted to the suburban lifestyle though. It's just not sustainable though.

If they set up something like this near me I'd look into moving into it immediately. Even just having a car free environment for raising kids would be great. Let em roam the neighborhood without fear of some douchebag flying through at 3x the speed limit.

[handmade34]

4. wouldn't that be great!

I would just like to see some PLANNING for future communities...

[RufusTFirefly]

2. K and R! n/t

[zipplewrath]

3. Individual transport

Basically since animals were domisticated, mankind has always sought, and found, some form of individual transport. Whether it was horses, mules, cows, wagons, bicycles, hobby horse, or lately the automobile. Even as densities grow, and the cost of owning individual transport grow, and public transport becomes available, people seek and use individual transport. If nothing else, they'll use taxi cabs. Taxis pre-date automobiles. Heck, the rickshaw may be the earliest form.

Designing communitities to avoid the use of individual transport is going against a few thousand years of history. Even in environments that are otherwise receptive to the idea, golf carts, scooters and similar items end up being available. I understand trying to de-emphasize their use, but completely trying to avoid their accomodation at all seems like a long term strategy for failure.

[handmade34]

7. human nature... hard to fight against

understood... just means we have to put that much more effort into accommodating each other... and bicycles are individual transport

[zipplewrath]

12. Carts

Yes, bicycles are individual transport, and predate the car. There are reasons people stopped using them. The old, the infirmed, etc. are not ideal candidates for these forms. We have handicapp parking spaces for reasons. In the end I think one could right a fairly straight forward set of ideals for the individual transport, and it wouldn't have to be an IC car by any stretch. But it wouldnt' be a bike either. Probably something more like a souped up golf cart. It would need weather protection (rain, heat and cold) carrying capacity, storage capacity, security capability (to keep things you're carrying secure) and a moderate range capacity (at a useful speed, probably 45 mph).

My sister lives in Chicago and owns no car. But she uses them all the time. She is involved in some co-op that has cars stationed all over the city. When she needs one, she signs up on the web to use one, goes there and somehow obtains access to the car, which she returns there when done. She rents the size vehicle she needs. And her marginal costs are still well below me and my one single 2-door hatchback. I can envision something similar in the types of communities that the OP was dreaming. A community that has vehicles stationed around them for large/long trips, and the rest of the infrastructure expects predominately very small, light weight, moderate velocity vehicles for daily transport. Maybe even alot of scooters and bikes.

[handmade34]

13. yes!

I have to admit I do not like bicycles myself. Even if in a intentionally planned community we used scooters and such, what a great step that would be. My mother lives in Lansing Michigan, is disabled and goes everywhere she cares to in one of those "mobility scooters" Myself, I would either walk or drive my Honda Rebel everywhere, if I could.

[Luminous Animal]

19. I live in San Francisco

and I do not own a car but I do belong to City Car Share. 99% of my transport needs are supplied by public transportation and my feet. When I need a car (there are 5 City Car Share stations within 3 blocks of my flat), it is as simple as described above. Go online... reserve the kind of car I want... an electronic fob unlocks all the doors. Gas and insurance are covered by the fees. Some European cities have a bike share program. Barcelona's has been running for two years and now, 9% of it's citizens are signed up for the program. The bike sharing program has also been wildly successful in Paris but because of asshole vandals, it may turn out to be a failure.

[izzybeans]

27. My grandmother's little town is predominately a 'very old' town. The old folks in town

have taken to using electric golf carts to get around. Works well.

And it's made them all more social and physically active.

[SteelPenguin]

14. bikes are allowed there

They get around by bikes, have trailers on their bikes to haul groceries etc. You're absolutely right, but I think the key is keeping the communites organized so that even if you HAD a car, it would be absurd to drive.

[zipplewrath]

18. The villages

It's a retirement community in Florida. Huge place. Golf carts are the generally preferred mode of transport. It's easier to get around in them and the parking is preferred for them. They all have cars, but mostly big things for hauling. They spend most of their time in their carts. They have some "parade" every year where they try to set some record for the most golf carts.

[grasswire]

20. do you need a drivers license to drive a golf cart? eom

[handmade34]

28. not in communities with pvt roads

may need them on public throughfares

[zipplewrath]

39. Depends upon states

If I recall, Florida exempts license requirements from many low power vehicles including tractors, scooters, and ATV type stuff. It is legal to operate most of these on "secondary" roads.

[ensho]

5. kick

nt

[enid602]

6. TOD´s

Transit oriented developments (TOD´s) popular in the US as well. http://www.examiner.com/x-2622-Pasadena-Community-Examiner~y2009m2d2-Transit-oriented-developments-Del-Mar-Station-Archstone-Apartments

[handmade34]

10. good news

I travel around the U.S. in my work and I do see communities being developed that incorporate residential and commercial... Irving,TX... Portland, OR... Norfolk, VA... and many other places, these are good signs of growth headed in a positive direction. The irony here is that I drive everywhere I go... maybe why I am so interested in easing out the excessive use of cars...

[MindPilot]

8. No garage? I don't think I could live in a place that sterile.

Even if I didn't own a car, I'd still need a garage. Or more to the point my tool box, air compressor, table saw, bench, etc need a garage.

Without a garage I might as well strip myself of all my worldly goods and live in an apartment.

I really couldn't imagine living in a place like that; it sounds horrible--like something from the Twilight Zone.

[Luminous Animal]

9. No garage does not mean no work space.

In San Francisco, if your building has a garage, the owner must prove that the space is used as a garage in order to receive the privilege of enforcing "no parking" in front of the curb cut-out.

[handmade34]

11. maybe we could call it a workshop?

[SteelPenguin]

15. I don't have a garage

We only have street parking.

I still have a tool box, an air compressor, a table saw, a work bench, a jig saw, power tools, non-power tools, way too many sizes of drywall screws, etc, etc, etc.

I have lawn tools, a lawn mower, hedge trimmers, shovels, gardening tools, jugs of wiper fluid I got on sale, etc, etc.

I don't have a garage though. I just have 1/3rd of the basement, with a ventilated window as my workshop, and sometimes set up an area outside on the back patio to do particularly stinky work.

A garage is convenient, but you don't need it for your toolbox, air compressor, table saw...

[hunter]

16. I've never used my garage to park my car.

Garages are meant to be workshops. I learned that from my dad, and his dad, and my dad's dad, going all the way back in time before the dark age of cars.

My wife and I could probably have ten garages and eventually they'd be turned into ten different kinds of workshops, always leaving the cars to fend for themselves on the driveway.

When we bought our current house the car was in the garage for about three days until my wife bought herself a tablesaw. My wife wields the big power tools in our household. I'm more of a precision hand tool and hammer kind of guy.

[handmade34]

30. good wife

in my barn back home, I have my big power tools and chain saws, etc... ohhh, how I'd like to be able to get back and play with them...

[Blue_Tires]

17. k+r

i posted the same piece in the lounge last week

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. So Basically, They're Doing Nothing More Than Saving The Miniscule Amount Of Gas That Would Be Used

going from their house to the edge of the really small town.

Big whoopee from me.

[SteelPenguin]

22. more than that

if you just look at gas consumption, they're not driving the car to the grocery store and back. They're not driving to drop the kids off at daycare and back. They're not driving the car to the gas station and back. They don't drive the car to work for the most part. It's not just that your car is kept further from your house, it's that you don't have to drive as much for alot of other reasons.

On top of that it's a quality of life issue involving neighborhoods being safer for kids with no cars driving by, quieter, less polution, less dust kicked up, etc. Community created from living together. Health from more walking and biking places.

Then the energy savings from the homes all as townhouses, designed for energy efficiency so that some don't even need to have the heat turned on.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. Do You Have Proof For Those Assertions?

Does this small town have a large supermarket that suits everyone's needs? Does this small district have the daycares necessary to suit everyone's needs? Are you claiming that everyone in this small district actually WORKS in the district?

Seems to me that people would be driving not a whole lot less than they would otherwise, with exception to a small few errands they might do within the town itself. But how many of us get everything we need done just within our town? All I do is drive through town to get to another town.

Again, I say whoopdee doo.

[SteelPenguin]

40. Some

As far as shopping...

"The town is long and relatively narrow, so that the tram into Freiburg is an easy walk from every home. Stores, restaurants, banks and schools are more interspersed among homes than they are in a typical suburb. Most residents, like Ms. Walter, have carts that they haul behind bicycles for shopping trips or children’s play dates."

As far as energy saving home construction used there...

http://www.passivhaus-vauban.de/idee.en.html

[SteelPenguin]

42. Also Anecdotally

It's a very different setup than in the states. The amount of public transportation, good public transportation, is much higher than here. I have friends who live in Oldenburg in Germany. It's by no means a green city with no cars, but the city center is car free, ringed by an outer road. My friends live in the city center and leave their small car and motorcycle at the garage where they lease a space. The one walks to work, the other uses public transportation. They have plenty of shops and restaurants within walking distance and never use their car for grocery shopping or anything routine like that. When they travel they take the train to the airport, or just take the train entirely. The car is more for unforseen things or getting to places not connected by the public transportation system. The motorcycle is for fun. The majority of their friends live the same way.

Based, completely anecdotally, from what I've seen when visiting, it's not that people don't like cars, it's that they don't really NEED them to do most things. The towns are denser and less spread out than in the u.s. along with the homes, and everone is pretty much within walking distance of what they need, or the public transportation to take them there. It can be hard for American's I think to imagine that sort of situation because we just don't see it here really. We've condensed everything into super box stores and super grocery stores that are so big and we're so spread out, that you HAVE to drive to them. It's just not like that there for the most part.

It's rare to be able to even come close to living that way in the States. I can't think of many places that come close without being DEEP in the cities and urban areas.

[Luminous Animal]

23. From the article.

"As a result, 70 percent of Vauban’s families do not own cars, and 57 percent sold a car to move here."

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. Oh Ok. Even Better.

So now you have a community filled with a bunch of already steadfast environmentalists who likely only rode bikes or barely drove prior anyway, making it a mere tradeoff and even less of a reduction in consumption.

Now I give an even bigger WHHOOOOOOOPPPPPPP DEEEEEEE DOOOOOOOOOOOO

:rofl:

[Luminous Animal]

33. You are making assumptions not in evidence. (n/t)

[handmade34]

it's a mindset

and I do think it is significant. Any cut in driving cars is relevant and I think the idea behind the planning and development of a car free community is to provide an environment that provides needs enough so that the residents don't need to travel outside everyday. And I believe that car share is part of the idea.

[gratuitous]

51. I suppose reading the article would be out of the question

Because ignorance is so much more immediate.

[Luminous Animal]

24. It would be great if we could get another rec here. (n/t)

[Toucano]

25. Happy to oblige. n-t

[Toucano]

26. The quality of life can be totally different without the false freedom bestowed

by automobiles.

Where are we really going and why are we always in such a rush to get there?

[handmade34]

32. "false freedom"

"People runnin' everywhere, Don't know where to go
Don't know where I am, Can't see past the next step
Don't have time to think past the last mile, Have no time to look around
Just run around, run around and..."

[Luminous Animal]

34. The best thing I ever did

was to get rid of my car. The most freeing act of my life.

[handmade34]

35. I don't own a car

and I like it that way... I use a gov't car for all my work. I keep telling my supervisor I want a hybrid... still driving that big white Impala... old habits die hard

[Luminous Animal]

36. Fortunately, I do not need a car for work.

And I no longer have to argue with my husband about not driving the car 3 blocks to the grocery store. I bought a large cart and it works like a dream.

[Toucano]

53. I distinctly remember

when it dawned on me that I was driving to a job I hated to make the money to pay for the car that I needed to get to the job I hated.

I am happier and more free with neither!

[NeedleCast]

37. I don't have a problem with a car-centric world

It's a matter of what that car/vehicle is fueled with.

I have many friends in diverse areas. I like to be able to drive out and see them. While I take mass-transit to reach work and many of the areas I frequent, a vehicle is still a neccissary part of my life and that's unlikely to change, ever.

Further, I have no desire to limit myself to such a tiny community. There's a big, wide world of interesting things to see and do out there and I'd much rather keep my ability to explore it open than confine myself to a relativly small region.

[Luminous Animal]

38. You do not need a privately owned vehicle to explore. (n/t)

[NeedleCast]

41. How do you suggest I get to place to far to walk/bike, not far enough to take a plane too?

[handmade34]

44. rideshare...

train, bus, rental, motor scooter...

I do not argue the fact we have needs for different types of transportation, just want us to get smarter about our use...

[NeedleCast]

48. All of these things might be great, in a vacuum

but I doubt I'm going to find anyone to Rideshare with me to go to my buddy Eddy's house which is about 100 miles away. There's not a train that goes there, because it's a faily isolated area. There are no bus stops within miles. Why would I get a rental if I already have a car, and in what way does that help the environmental impact of driving 100 miles? Motor scooters are not legal on the freeway.

And the kicker here is, I've just described access to the VAST majority of the country. Like I said, I take mass transit anywhere it's practical to use it. However, the number of areas where it's practical to use it are relativly small to the number of areas where it's not.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that some people seem to have this idealistic view of a world without cars that might work for them, but doesn't work for many of us.

[hunter]

50. My favorite thing about walking is you can go places cars can't.

In some places it's almost like wearing a cloak of invisibility...

;)

[Luminous Animal]

52. I am not suggesting that you, personally, do not need a car.

The emphasis on need. But, communities do come up with solutions. They vote to raise taxes to expand light rail or they organize companies like "City Car Share. I get out of town about every other weekend and yet I do not own a car. For day trips, it is City Car Share, BART or Caltrain. For longer trips, I rent a car.

[Toucano]

54. Two links.

http://www.amtrak.com

http://www.greyhound.com


You can explore a whole lot with either one.

[coinstar queen]

49. Does your area have those Zip cars (or similar brand) where you can use it

when you absolutely need it and it's cheaper than a car rental? They have lots and you take it for the time needed and drop it off.

Another thing to consider is that many people who visit their friends in various cities may take a train (either commuter or Amtrak) and it's safer, as well as less of a hassle.

[Toucano]

55. "...unlikely to change, ever..."

Those sound like famous last words.

No one is saying that cars have to be eliminated entirely. I think the point is more about reducing the dependency on privately owned cars as the primary, daily, essential mode of transit.

There are an estimated 250,851,833 cars registered in the United States. That works out to almost 2 per household.

It isn't just about what fuels them, but what they drive on (an ever widening and expanding network of concrete) what keeps them clean (about 13.5 gallons of water per car each wash), and where they park. We expend a lot of our resources on cars - maybe in ways we don't ordinarily imagine.

But the point is about planning a land where the need for a car is the exception, rather than the rule.

It didn't become the rule by accident or "free market forces". It was engineered to be this way, and we can learn to live another way.

edit to include an interesting link.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/10/01/parking/

[Bluenorthwest]

43. The key is the planning of the towns

and neighborhoods. That is the deal. Walking distance needs to mean something. Freiburg works because they planned it to work that way. It is a great lesson. Here in the States, most people who speak about driving less are very certain, in the Puritan style, that it is lazy individuals, 'addicted' to 'lifesyles' that keeps driving up, and while that stuff is a factor, the city planning elements are far more important.

[SteelPenguin]

45. addiction

i think more people are addicted to lifestyles than are comfortable admitting it. I was speaking with a suburban friend recently and he was talking about how much he wished he could live in the city. Then he proceeded to complain about how the yards were too small, the houses too small and too close together, the noise too loud, the distance from the big suburban grocery stores and malls...

Too many people in this country just haven't really seen ANY viable alternative to the benefits of suburban lifestyle, and just saying "it's not sustainable" isn't enough to people who "don't want to live so close to their neighbors they can hear them fart."

you've got to actually make some planned communities that work, that people can see and go "wow I want to live there!"

[handmade34]

46. absolutely

and I see that efficient planning coming from need, just wish we (collectively) could understand what is healthy and efficient without it coming from necessity as we see our environment ailing and us losing clean drinking water and breathing smoggy air and becoming stuck for length on congested hwys...

[Touchdown]

47. Dan Rather Reports did a report on Freiberg. It was good.

It's available on iTunes or HDNet. Unfortunately for sale.

http://www.hd.net/danrather.html

Preview is the second one down... without a description.

EDIT: It's number 53 on iTunes' DRR page. "Power to the People."

[Karenina]

56. I've been car-free since moving to Europe.

It's wonderful, coming from car central in the US, to have absolutely no need for one.