Thom Hartmann is asking a good question: How do we define Freedom?

[patrice]

This within the context of whether the Libertarian Ideal "Free Markets" would actually result in Freedom.

I don't think "Free Markets" would produce Freedom, because inherencies would create systemic preferences which would then oppress anything under them, anything less powerful. I know that Free Marketers say something such as "The Oppressed can express their drive toward Freedom by over-throwing the Oppressors. The Free Market will adapt to their influence and so Freedom is thus increased." But I am thinking: The Oppressed can't NECESSARILY over-throw anything and IF they happen to get the chance to do so, the over-throwing itself COULD be another form of Oppression. People don't necessarily want to do whatever it takes to depose an Oppressor; doing so may be something that kills something else within them that they value. Especially when it comes to Violence, the act of Free-ing one's self and others CAN be another form of Oppression, which is then propagated systemically.

[ananda]

1. This is the problem.

Good people with spiritual values and consciences
simply cannot do what it takes to get rid of
sociopathic oppressors.

Look at the USA right now. Sociopathic Reepthink
rules.

[patrice]

2. They are prevented by their very natures from "doing what it takes", so . . .

is there something else they CAN do?

[patrice]

3. They are prevented by their very natures, while the Oppressor by it's very nature is prevented from

NOTHING.

Slavery is a fundamental Evil.

[BanzaiBonnie]

5. Sociopaths are the only ones truly free in this system

They are actually able to thrive and "get ahead" because they have no moral restrictions.

[patrice]

6. No moral nor any other restrictions. There is nothing they will not do to THEMSELVES

or others.

No contrary impulse/vision/interest/talent/feeling/thought/relationship/value . . . in themselves that they will not sacrifice to power and greed.

[JHB]

7. "Freedom of Ruthlessness"...

...to put it in "freedom of" form.

[OHdem10]

4. Freedom-Liberty according to the Republican Party means or

refers to the "ability of individual to earn and spend their own
money". This goes back historically...early on when country was
deciding our system, the French system was under consideration.
The economic consideration was deciding factor. Equality enters
the consideration. US goes with their own system in favor of Individaual
and ability to make and spend their own money.

Both Countries value Liberty, Freedom

Put on a scale, eq1uality is a higher value to French while Individualism
is higher value in US. (Economic Issues)

This explains the knee jerk response especially by GOP, against
any social program. Equality is not the high value.