"I was hungry and thirsty and you

[rateyes]

put up a blockade around my country to keep food and clean drinking water from reaching me. I was a stranger, and you bombed my village and killed my family, leaving me orphaned. I was sick, and you kept medicine from reaching me. I was in prison and you waterboarded me, deprived me of sleep by keeping me awake for 11 days, slammed my head against a wall over and over and over again, raped me with a broom handle, stripped me naked and made me stand outside in freezing temperatures and poured cold water over me. Therefore, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

And, those to whom this was spoken asked, "Lord, when did we see YOU hungry and did not help? When were YOU a stranger and we bombed your village? When were YOU sick that we kept medicine from you? When were YOU a prisoner and we tortured you?"

And, God said, "Inasmuch as you did it to the least of these, my children, you did it to ME."

WHO WOULD TORTURE JESUS? America would.

---------------------------------------------
Just a reminder to the "religious right"---(or "wrong" as the case may be).

(Thanks to Bluenorthwest for the inspiration)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5682198#5682309
-------------------------------------------------

[TygrBright]

1. Yup. Proud to K&R. It's the Christian thing to do. n/t

[rateyes]

2. ...

thanks. :hi:

[StopTheNeoCons]

42. "Take that!" and "Serves you right, you jerk!"

A young woman named Sally was a seminary student. She enjoyed almost all of her professors, but she particularly liked Dr. Smith because he often taught by means of object lessons. In fact, he was known for his rather elaborate and unconventional classroom techniques. One day Sally walked into class and knew she and her classmates would be having a bit of fun that hour because Dr. Smith had erected a huge target on the wall and arranged several hands-full of darts on a nearby table. "I want you to get a piece of paper," the professor said, "and draw a picture of someone you dislike, or someone who has hurt you, or someone who has made you angry. Anybody is fair game. And when you're finished, you can put the picture of that person on this target and throw darts at it if you like." Well, the students felt a little foolish. After all, they were graduate students, for crying out loud, not third graders. But they figured there was some point to all this so they started thinking about folks they had negative feelings toward, and before long they started to draw. One student drew a picture of the kid who had teased him unmercifully in high school. One woman drew a picture of the hussy who had stolen her boyfriend. One man drew a crude picture of his younger brother. Sally drew a portrait of a former friend who had recently wounded her deeply. And the longer the students worked on their pictures the more they got into them. They put pimples on their faces, or exaggerated their noses, or gave them bloodshot eyes. Sally thought maybe the point was to help them all get in touch with their feelings of anger or pain. Kind of a catharsis experience.

And then they stuck their pictures on the target, and, one by one, they lined up to throw darts. At first the tosses were gentle, docile lobs, but as the aggression mounted the throws became harder and harder. There was laughter, of course. They knew it was all in fun, and there were playful shouts of "Take that!" and "Serves you right, you jerk!" And the more they threw the darts the more the pictures were disfigured. Some landed with such force that the features grew blurred. Sally was near the back of line, waiting her turn to throw darts, and listening to the gleeful screeches as the tosses hit their mark. This was really helping them all to release their aggressions and Sally was anxious to have at her former friend.

But then, to her dismay, Dr. Smith ordered them all back to their seats. "Well, that's not fair!" she hissed to herself, and she plopped down heavily in her chair like a four-year-old whose mother won't let her go out and play. What was the point of the exercise if she didn't get her chance to attack the picture she'd drawn? And then, when she and the others were seated, Dr. Smith began to tear away their drawings as well as the target they were attached to. And as the paper was stripped away a hush fell across the room, for underneath the target was a picture of Jesus. His face was pock-marked from the darts. Jagged holes had been torn from his features and his eyes were pierced. And as Sally and the other students looked into the ruin their anger had created, Dr. Smith said only these words to them before dismissing them for the day: "Inasmuch as you did it to the least of these my children, you did it to me."

[elocs]

3. As someone who is at best an agnostic and has read the Bible

and especially finds the words of Jesus to be valuable, people should not blame God (if there is one) or Jesus (if he existed) for what people who claim to follow them do in their names. Jesus had no intention of founding a religion called "Christianity" and many who call themselves "Christians" are clueless as to what it really means. If Jesus were here right now in the flesh, too many Christians would not recognize that homeless man and would condemn him for being a radical, or even worse, a Liberal.

How would Jesus feel about what those who call themselves "Christians" and what they profess to do in the name of God and Jesus? I think John 11:35 says it: "Jesus wept".

[SammyWinstonJack]

.

:thumbsup:

[Bluerthanblue]

11. his angriest words were reserved for those who called themselves religious-

but who lived like selfish self-centered pompous assholes.

Thanks for pointing this out. Just as there has been alot of terrible shit done in the name of "America"- How many of us ok'd torture? How many of us said no to war? Are we not 'Americans'?

"I never knew you"... that's what Jesus said he'd say to those who claim to be spiritual, but who live otherwise.-

:hi:

[twitomy]

37. Upon this Rock..

"..I will build my church. Matthew 16:18."

[hootinholler]

4. Yeah I've done pieces like that on a right leaning board I frequent

It generally doesn't go over very well, but they have trouble arguing against it. :rofl:

-Hoot

[L0oniX]

5. These fake ass christains never understand what they claim to believe.

[dflprincess]

14. Timmy Pawlenty, governor of Minnesota with national political ambitions

(even though he has never managed to get more than 45% of the vote in a statewide race) is such a "Christian".

He vetoed the budget bill to protect the wealthiest Minnesota from an income tax increase and he vetoed all the funding for the General Assistance medical fund so the poorest of the poor will not have access to healthcare.

Jesus wept.

[Bluenorthwest]

6. Hey thanks for making note

Those verses seem to have been forgotten by not just the religious right, but by the bulk of the church world. It is very clearly spoken. The guy on the waterboard IS Jesus, according to Jesus. Yet the relgionists claim Jesus is cool with toruture done in 'good faith'. It makes me vomit.

[rateyes]

7. I have the same reaction.

:hi:

[Patiod]

33. I used to listen to "Christian" radio

Did a lot of traveling in the middle of the state, where that's all you can get. Plus is was a window into a whole 'nother world for a person raised Catholic.

You NEVER heard them talking about Matthew 25. Because it didn't fit their Republican world view.

[twitomy]

48. From my twisted thinking...

And yes I KNOW this is twisted, but I am just stating it to "stir the pot"..

Wasnt Jesus tortured?

He choose to go thru it as part of his plan for Salvation.

So he kinda had to "approve" of torture and execution. If he didnt approve, it would then be a sinful activity.

And so if he voluntarily participated in a sinful act he coulndt of been God yes?

Never had that explained to me...

[Wednesdays]

8. K&R

:kick:

[Shireling]

9. The understanding of Christianity by most "so-called" Christians

is similar to a child's understanding of Santa Claus. Believe in Santa Claus. Be good. Know that Santa is watching and keeping a list. If Santa is pleased, you will get a present (heaven).

That would be okay, ignorant, but okay, if they would do without the "holier-than-thou" judgmental thinking.

[Echo In Light]

10. The Gnostic World View:

The Gnostic World View: A Brief Summary of Gnosticism

"The noted scholar of Gnosticism, G. Filoramo, wrote: "Jung's reflections had long been immersed in the thought of the ancient Gnostics to such an extent that he considered them the virtual discoverers of 'depth psychology' . . . ancient Gnosis, albeit in its form of universal religion, in a certain sense prefigured, and at the same time helped to clarify, the nature of Jungian spiritual therapy." In the light of such recognitions one may ask: "Is Gnosticism a religion or a psychology?" The answer is that it may very-well be both."

http://www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm

[polmaven]

26. Would you consider, please,

changing the word "most" to "some"?

I am a active Christian, and the vast majority of the Christians with whom I associate do not actually believe that way. The ones who make the most noise, and get the most attention perhaps do, but certainly NOT "most", by any means.

[dotymed]

35. I am an Episcopalian

In many "religious" circles, that makes me a gay
loving antichrist. Oh well. Kurt Vonnegut Jr. was a Humanist.
He believed in helping his fellow man and doing community good
deeds. To me, that is my definition of Christianity. I believe
the Bible (written by man) was a "guide book" to
help people, especially the ancient peoples, survive. It was
further corrupted by man to give power to one tribe over
another. Originally, it said not to eat pork, undercooked pork
led to trichinosis and death. Their were many
"rules" in there to protect man from harmful things.
As science overcame many of the diseases that plagued early
man, The original bible was still full of good advice on how
to live a moral life. "Do unto others."
Unfortunately, we now have a bunch of literalists who pick and
choose what parts of the bible to follow and completely twist
its meaning. My own Priest believed this also.
If you look at the Greek and Latin mythologies which predate
the bible, you will see very similar tales. These were meant
to teach morality.

[polmaven]

38. You and I seem to be on the same page.

The Bible is indeed a "guide" book, written by men. God's words did not fall out of the sky and onto the parchment. That guide book has also been through many translations of translations of translations and on and on.

The literalists, IMO, are using the Bible for their own purposes, and not God's purposes.

I am, by the way, United Methodist. Every 4 years at our General Conference, the subject of gay marriage comes up for a vote. In 2008, the "pro" side came closer than ever before to removing the ban from our Book of Discipline. If I remember correctly, it was within 100 votes, out of several thousand. We will be successful very, very soon, I think.

[JerseygirlCT]

54. Absolutely. Thanks for saying that. nt

[Joe Bacon]

32. American Christians worship Ayn Rand.

Oh they talk the Jesus talk, but they walk the Ayn Rand talk. Listen to Rick Warren, Osteen, and the Crouches. If Jay-Zuss loves you, he makes you wealthy and he makes sure you have the iPhone and the new 50 inch TV in your 2 story $500,000 house and the latest Hummer.

The Christians I deal with at work are the most self-centered narcissists. You hear them talk, "it's all about me, me, me".

[dotymed]

36. Isn't it amazing...

The many, many "Christians" who follow the "God
wants you to prosper" "religion." All to the
detriment of Gods vulnerable and less manipulative (not
sociopathic) children. You can tune in and watch them
"crying" while their tons of eyeliner runs down
their massively made up faces. They wear $3000.00 minimum
suits and Rolexes. They have obviously Gay
"preachers" talking about the "sin" being
gay. How can our citizens be so stupid?

[FiveGoodMen]

12. "Inasmuch as you did it to the least of these, my children, you did it to ME."

If right wing "Christians" actually believed what their Bible said, they'd prefer death to a neo-con war of choice. (Because their eternity would be on the line)

I don't think you could ask for better proof that the churches are nothing but bullshit.

[merh]

13. I think I may go send this to the folks who send me all their

whack job emails -

thanks for this OP.

Need to send it on to Obama too.

[eridani]

23. Yes, indeedy. I have the same relatives that you do, apparently n/t

[Horse with no Name]

15. The christianists of today use the Bible as a weapon

to beat non-believers over the head with cherry-picked verses that are spewed at the altar by Mass-Marketed-Monied-Ministers" , they do NOT live by the words of it...but want others to.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

16. K & R

for THE one selection from The Holy Bible that I hold forth as my life's philosophy. I haven't always succeeded in its applications, but all the times I have, have made me a much better man.

:toast:

[madamesilverspurs]

17. There are many good Christians

who have been dismayed by what has been made of their faith. Just as Democrats are 'taken aback' when Republicans presume to give us a new name, people of genuine faith have been tarred by the ugliness of those who wear the label without living the life. I am among those who are not listed on the rolls of any official religious organization, yet still manage to practice a vibrant faith. In conversations with those of the "religious" right, I've been known to ask what version of the Bible they use - King James, RSV, New International, or AK-47. And I've had to duck more than once.

[livefreest]

18. but Jesus has asked christians

over the years to kill so many people? :sarcasm: ...you know Arabs during crusades, Jews and protestants during the inquisition? all that was for the glory of Jesus

[ClayZ]

19. K and R

[iamthebandfanman]

20. canaanites - jerico .

And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

joshua 6:21


you know, when i was first old enough to question religion... my first conclusion was that the bible seemed to contain a lot of substance that could be seen as anti-jesus' teachings ... and after being told to watch out for the devil and those proclaiming to represent or speak for god... i made the conclusion that the bible was actually the work of the devil, sent to control gods children and force them to do things in the name of the lord.

i later decided that God had never had any influence on mankind since creation(so i fancied myself a deist)...

now i have no clue what i think or feel about the subject of a higher being being the creator...

[truedelphi]

21. Always proud of you for your great posts.

Thank you for writing this pout. It resonates with me, heart and soul.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

22. Gandhi "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians"

" I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~
Mohandas Gandhi

[stlsaxman]

24. "... and get my Kicks w/ Rec 66" Seriously tho- great post!

[polmaven]

25. And as we often say

at my church..."Let all God's children say....AMEN"!!!

K&R, proudly!

[fasttense]

27. A society is not judged by how well they keep their kings, but

on how they treat the weakest among them.

[pleah]

28. K&R

[Pacifist Patriot]

29. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

[Soylent Brice]

30. kick

[winyanstaz]

31. K & R...amen

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

34. Ashcroft better hope that Crisco he lathered himself in

didn't made him Devine.

Or, he's next.

[twitomy]

39. So what are you attacking?

Our American secular government, or American Christians?

It is our secular government that has done these things, not Christians. If one says "Well the govt is run by Christians", then I would have to respond, are they not to keep there morals and religious
beliefs OUT of government? If there is to be a true seperation of Church and State, then the decisions made by our government are to be in accordance with the law(which has not happened obviously) and in the interests of the State, not based on ones own morality.

And as for those condemning Christians, I can fill this page with names of charities that help the poor here and abroad that are run and supported by Christians, but alas I cant think of one run by atheists..And truth be told the biggest mass murderers in recent history just happen to NOT be Christians..Stalin,Hitler,Pol Pot,Mao...

[rateyes]

40. I'm attacking Christians who approve of torture (many of whom are in government

and use the Bible to defend torture). I'm attacking politicians who spout "Christianity" to pander to their religious right base, and then approve of torture.

[twitomy]

41. I am aware of Christians who approve of torture..

but never heard of them using Bible quotes to defend it? Can you provide examples of them doing this?

But if you look at it the way I am, to see them claiming to be Christian but yet approve of torture
for the security of the state only demonstrates an exercise of seperation of church and state. By being a Christian and approving of toture means you dont let your religious views taint public policy. And isnt this the way it should be? Now I'm not saying torture is ok, but what I am saying is one cannot condemn a person for NOT applying Christian beleifs in formulating public policy as you have, while at the same time condeming someone when they do, such as with opposition to gay marriage. (not saying you said that, but Im making a point)

[rateyes]

43. People in the religious right movement don't believe in

separation of church and state. They are trying to break down that wall.

[twitomy]

45. Yes I understand and believe that..

I just was seeking some consistency. Can't beat them up for NOT USING their Christian beliefs in a public capacity(don't torture, feed the hungry) and also beat them up FOR USING them (gay marrriage, abortion, et al). Trying to have it both ways.

Thats why it can be hard to define Christians as Right or Left. The religious principals of Christianity can cut both ways.

[rateyes]

46. But, you see, they are the ones who profess to use their

Christian beliefs in a public capacity. I'm saying that torture of their enemies seems to be one of their Christian beliefs.

[twitomy]

47. Dont think so..

They may be hypocrites, yes; but I have never heard any Christian say torturing is the "Christian Thing To Do" and that is a Christian Belief.

[rateyes]

49. Now you will:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/04/30/poll-most-evangelicals-and-catholics-condone-torture-in-some-instances.html

[twitomy]

50. Well the rank-and-file seem to think

its ok, but under what Biblical pretense? Where is the Dogma? Just becasue the majority of Christians prefer Coke over Pepsi doesnt make it a "Christian Belief". The fact is the Church does not preach that torture is ok, regardless of what the congregation might think. In order for it to
be a "Christian Belief" there has to be some theological dictate somewhere. I am not aware of any.

[FiveGoodMen]

51. Christian is as Christian does.

[twitomy]

52. So then

in light of 9/11, and the numerous terrorist atrocities..

Muslim is as Muslim does?

How very tolerant of you.

[FiveGoodMen]

53. The difference being that huge, organized groups of Muslims were NOT behind 9/11

But huge, organized groups of Christians ARE trying to break down separation of church and state, turn America into a theocracy, and support every war that's ever proposed.

[StopTheNeoCons]

44. there were playful shouts of "Take that!" and "Serves you right, you jerk!"

A young woman named Sally was a seminary student. She enjoyed almost all of her professors, but she particularly liked Dr. Smith because he often taught by means of object lessons. In fact, he was known for his rather elaborate and unconventional classroom techniques. One day Sally walked into class and knew she and her classmates would be having a bit of fun that hour because Dr. Smith had erected a huge target on the wall and arranged several hands-full of darts on a nearby table. "I want you to get a piece of paper," the professor said, "and draw a picture of someone you dislike, or someone who has hurt you, or someone who has made you angry. Anybody is fair game. And when you're finished, you can put the picture of that person on this target and throw darts at it if you like." Well, the students felt a little foolish. After all, they were graduate students, for crying out loud, not third graders. But they figured there was some point to all this so they started thinking about folks they had negative feelings toward, and before long they started to draw. One student drew a picture of the kid who had teased him unmercifully in high school. One woman drew a picture of the hussy who had stolen her boyfriend. One man drew a crude picture of his younger brother. Sally drew a portrait of a former friend who had recently wounded her deeply. And the longer the students worked on their pictures the more they got into them. They put pimples on their faces, or exaggerated their noses, or gave them bloodshot eyes. Sally thought maybe the point was to help them all get in touch with their feelings of anger or pain. Kind of a catharsis experience.

And then they stuck their pictures on the target, and, one by one, they lined up to throw darts. At first the tosses were gentle, docile lobs, but as the aggression mounted the throws became harder and harder. There was laughter, of course. They knew it was all in fun, and there were playful shouts of "Take that!" and "Serves you right, you jerk!" And the more they threw the darts the more the pictures were disfigured. Some landed with such force that the features grew blurred. Sally was near the back of line, waiting her turn to throw darts, and listening to the gleeful screeches as the tosses hit their mark. This was really helping them all to release their aggressions and Sally was anxious to have at her former friend.

But then, to her dismay, Dr. Smith ordered them all back to their seats. "Well, that's not fair!" she hissed to herself, and she plopped down heavily in her chair like a four-year-old whose mother won't let her go out and play. What was the point of the exercise if she didn't get her chance to attack the picture she'd drawn? And then, when she and the others were seated, Dr. Smith began to tear away their drawings as well as the target they were attached to. And as the paper was stripped away a hush fell across the room, for underneath the target was a picture of Jesus. His face was pock-marked from the darts. Jagged holes had been torn from his features and his eyes were pierced. And as Sally and the other students looked into the ruin their anger had created, Dr. Smith said only these words to them before dismissing them for the day: "Inasmuch as you did it to the least of these my children, you did it to me."