Hey, guess what? We're screwed again.

[autorank]

The credit card Bill of Rights doesn't do anything about credit card interest rates. We get a 45 day notice if rates change and the credit companies have to outline how they're screwing us in plainer English.

"The bill largely codifies new regulations already adopted last year by the Fed. On their own, those rules take effect in July 2010. But the legislation would speed things up.

Much of the Senate bill would take effect nine months after enactment. Some portions would take effect sooner.

The bill does not include a cap on interest rates, as some lawmakers wanted. Nor does it bar lenders from issuing cards to college students, although that is limited under the bill.

Reuters, May 18, 2009

This is the perfecta, a double winner at the track of congressional bull shit.

The first winner was the failure of the mortgage assistance bill 45 to 51: Senate Tycoons Kill Mortgate Aid for Main Street, May 1, 2009

What a pathetic effort to help citizens - nothing on fraudulent mortgages and foreclosures, not even an investigation, and now this - failing to stop 29% interest rates on credit cards whenever the banks want to raise the rates.

[TwilightZone]

1. "nothing on fraudulent mortgages"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8418473

Titled: Mortgage fraud bill goes to Obama to sign

[autorank]

2. Mortgages issues on the basis of fraud that are getting people evicted

Does this go backwards? What does it do for those in trouble right now?

Nothing.

[TwilightZone]

3. From the link:

"Another measure that could make it to the president's desk would try to make it easier for homeowners with shaky credit to switch to a lower-cost mortgage backed by the government."

That's it for the details at the moment.

Nice edit, by the way.

[autorank]

31. That's something to check out

There's $0.5 billing in there to fight mortgage fraud, which looks like it's mostly for FBI and other law enforcement agents, which is good, very good. The FBI was onto mortgage fraud and the whole real estate bubble but 9/11 caused that effort to be decreased.

"The FBI is investigating every level of the conspiracy that it believes perpetuated the housing boom and ultimately resulted in millions of Americans losing their houses, investment banks losing billions of dollars and the chief executives of Citigroup, Merrill Lynch, Bear Stearns and UBS resigning." TimesOnline Jan. 31, 2007
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article3279691.ece

I hope this is ongoing. It would scare off a lot of fraud just to have a few perp walks. The handling of Enron guaranteed the Era of Greed.

I couldn't find the rate switch language but the bill is huge. We'll see.

[truedelphi]

36. HAve you heard the scary audio from Joyce Riley's site

A middle aged woman in Missouri paid off her mortgage, but the paper on the house was sold and re-sold.

The bank that now holds the mortgatge (Wachovia) decided she had not paid it. So the sheriff came and kicked her out.

The audio is here -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGXlJMR8dcY

[The Hope Mobile]

62. Sounds like Wachovia. Always taking it one step further to screw the

consumer. We need to stop compromising. These reforms need to be real or Obama will be gone in 2012 who knows what will replace him.

[keepCAblue]

71. Wachovia was bought by Wells Fargo. n/t

[The Hope Mobile]

81. Karma. nt

[closeupready]

78. I like that, how you characterize this crap - they are NOT REAL REFORMS.

They are simply stalling measures against the worst abuses. So you will still be abused, just a couple weeks later.

[DollyM]

66. The same thing happened to my grandparents during the Depression . . .

They had paid off their house then the banks closed and they couldn't prove they had paid off their house so they had to struggle and make payments on it all over again in a horrific economic time. But they had a small child and wanted to make sure they had a roof over their head so they did everything they could to scrape by and they did survive. But my grandparents never forgot this and they saved EVERYTHING after that, every receipt for everthing they bought. I am sure it terrified them that they could have been put on on the street like happened to so many people during this time. This whole mess is shades of the Great Depression isn't it. You would think we would have learned . . .

[KakistocracyHater]

37. how does the Patriot Act put it? Oh wait-significant economic

disruption.....

[ooglymoogly]

83. O was just waiting for a bill he could support.

The ones that had any teeth got no support.

[femrap]

4. K and R

Our Gov't Reps are lapdogs of the Corporations.

The Banksters have been given Trillions of $$$...that is We The People's money...and we get screwed. BOHICA !!!!!

[bleever]

5. Always Mr. Sunshine, aren't you?

:)

K&R.

:hi:

[autorank]

8. You've transofmed my mood!

:):hi::)

[Greyhound]

52. You should be very happy about the prospect that maybe, sometime in the future,

after the mid-terms, if we can agree on how it might effect profit margins for campaign contributors, we may get a dollop of Vaseline.

Why do you h8 America?
:eyes:

[JimWis]

6. K&R - Depressing isn't it. We will probably get the same watered

down shit for health reform too.

[Enthusiast]

104. No, healthcare measures will

even be worse. Corporate rule, we are living it.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

7. same as it ever was...

until we demand an end to the abuse sanctioned by the powerful and wealthy, we will continue to be fed bullshit dressed up as change

it seems "demand" is going to have to be of a less than peaceful nature

k & r

[glitch]

15. a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing, invaribly, the same object

evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism.. it is their right, it is their duty more...

[autorank]

18. Great words

"...to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government."

The Declaration of Independence

[glitch]

20. I know quite a few of them by heart

thanks to The Fifth Dimension http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6845443820368294152
:hi:

[defendandprotect]

96. Capitalism has its tenacles around our government --

unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime --

do all you can to screw up large corporations --

[Enthusiast]

106. No shit!

I really don't think the office of the president has the power to a thing about this. Well, he might do something about it but he would not be president for long, one way or another.

[defendandprotect]

152. Fair Elections Now Act -- HR 1826 -- in the works . . .

public financing of campaigns . . .

Common Cause has signed my Repug Rep up with a "pledge" to vote for the bill --!!1

They need more sponsors -- Senators and Rep --

If you're interested call your Sens and Rep and ask for their support!

[Enthusiast]

163. Public financing is the only

possible way to remove the influence of money from political will. It must be done. But, remember even the modest terms of McCain-Feingold was met with a monumental effort to label it as talking away our free speech. This one will be in for a real fight, worse than healthcare.

[defendandprotect]

172. That "free speech" argument is a loser . ..

And back away, I was shocked to find that the ACLU was supporting that concept!
But, they did reverse themselves on it --

IMO, free speech and money are two different things --
when you base free speech on having the money to buy it, you're wrong.

That's why that old saying that the only real free speech is that of the publisher -
owner of a newspaper. If you don't own a soapbox, you can build one and stand on
the corner, but you can't compete with the newspaper owner --

nor with corporate money.

That case has to be overturned -- we've obviously had very corrupt SC rulings --
not to mention the deadly decision to put Bush in the Oval Office as a reward for
their election steal!

[Enthusiast]

176. +1

Those with huge monetary resources now speak with a megaphone while the rest of us speak in a whisper. Of course the money = free speech argument is a false one. This is the very reason we now have a corporate government.

[defendandprotect]

178. And a few have been warning us of this "buying of government" and

our legislators for at least 30 years!!

Yet many either don't believe what they don't hear on TV --
or they don't read?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

21. He has erected a multitude of New Offices,

and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

[autorank]

28. In every stage

"In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury."

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm

[autorank]

9. Cool user chat with credit expert on Washington Post

Ground zero, so to speak;)

"Washington Post staff writer Nancy Trejos, who also co-writes the Small Change blog, and Adam Levin, a consumer credit expert and founder of Credit.com answered questions on Monday, May 18 at 1 p.m. ET about the credit card legislation moving through Congress and its potential impact on consumers and card companies."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/05/15/DI2009051501289.html

[autorank]

10. Tricks on "deals"

'Mount Air, Va.: I bought a Freezer from Sears on my Sears Mastercard (Citi). The first bill came in with a 28 day grace period but Sears had not entered the transaction under the special no payment/no interest for 12 months promo that I bought the freezer under. Second bill came in with promo noted but now the grace period had automatically dropped to 20 days (I called Sears to confirm this). Call me paranoid but I think they do this so that customers will miss the new due date and default on the promo allowing Sears/Citi to collect on fees. Will prohibiting this practice be part of the new rules?

"Adam Levin: You're not paranoid. It's a given that issuers make more money when people miss the due date and end up losing the interest free promotion. The Fed Rules that go into effect July 2010 will require issuers to mail statement at least 21 days in advance. Both the House and Senate bills address this as well. Watch those due dates in the meantime."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/05/15/DI2009051501289.html

[autorank]

12. Bank of America, a "healthy bank," has it's own "close up" magic

"Anonymous: Recently I rejected an attempt by Bank of America to increase my APR and fees. On my next statement I noticed the payment due date had been advanced one week. If my next payment had been late, would that entitle Bank of America to increase my APR and fees?

"Adam Levin: We've received quite a few complaints about credit card issuers changing due dates on our blog at Creditbloggers.com. If you miss the change, you are late and that means a late fee and/or higher interest rate on your outstanding balance. And yes, that's perfectly legal (at least until a new law is passed and/or the Fed rules go into effect in July 2010.) It's a good idea to check your statements the moment they arrive to confirm the due date, interest rate, and credit limit."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/05/15/DI2009051501289.html

[autorank]

13. Big Bank Brother - lower home valuation, reduced credit - no questions asked

"Princeton, N.J.: This isn't quite on topic, but it's close.

"My bank unilaterally lowered the valuation of my home by about 50 percent and then reduced the credit limit on my home equity loan to my balance.

"O.K., but what I want to point out is how they treated me when I tried to discuss this. They refused to give me any information as to how they arrived at this valuation change. They said that if I wanted a real appraisal, I would have to pay them an outrageous fee and use their appraiser whom they would not identify. It would appear that using an appraiser whose business comes through the bank is a clear conflict of interest. Also the bankers at my local branch who arranged the loan in the first place had no knowledge of this and no ability to discuss it. They only people I could contact were young PR types who could only recite what I already knew.

"This is extremely short sighted as I have been a good customer of this bank for a long time, but as soon as the situation allows, I will transfer my business to another bank.

"Adam Levin: The OCC is currently investigating these typse of complaints. I recommend you go to www.occ.gov"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/05/15/DI2009051501289.html

[dysfunctional press]

11. it's the oligarch's world...the rest of us are just trying to live in it.

and apparently- they're none too happy about that.

[autorank]

14. It's a class war and the war's on us!

Enabling Acts for an Era of Greed - The Money Party at Work Apr. 14, 2009
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0904/S00140.htm

[MannyGoldstein]

16. Democrats To Middle Class: "Drop Dead, Fuckheads"

Congress will do anything for cash, Obama is a major-league (but very eloquent!) wuss, and Larry Summers wants us all to be his slaves.

Other than that, all is well.

"Baaaah!" say we the sheeple.

[autorank]

17. Are we next?

But no solution is chosen, at least not one that would work.

Economic Disaster: Are You Next? Feb. 5, 2009
http://www.apj.us/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2199&Itemid=2

[Me.]

19. K % R

[autorank]

34. For "Me"

:blush:

[Me.]

42. You'll Have To Do Better Than That

I'm raising my rates too. Just to keep up you know.

[truedelphi]

39. Thanks for this link. Will check it out in the Am.

As usual, excellent work.

[stevedeshazer]

22. How I hate these people.

This passes for reform.

It sickens me.

[autorank]

25. They're set

Subsidized health care.

Housing allowances.

Free mail, travel, and lots of fun perks.

"It should be no surprise that the majority of the elected denizens on Capitol Hill are millionaires and multimillionaires, so they are not going to support regular Americans but other millionaires like themselves.

"While typical, hardworking Americans are struggling to make ends meet and experiencing lower wages and benefits, these millionaires in Congress got 13% richer in 2007.

"The Senate especially is truly the millionaires club with a median net worth of $1.7 million."

Progressive Dem
http://blog.progressivedem.com/2008/10/28/congress-a-millionaires-club-made-wealthier-by-paluson--perps.aspx?ref=rss

They don't care. They don't have to.

:hi:

[babylonsister]

23. Really? What a great message to bring here.

Thank you for your efforts. So, we're fucked, and there's nothing positive? Why do you insist on concentrating on the negative? I already know it's going to take 9 months. I don't have a dog in this fight. But jeeze. Could you at least try from a different perspective?

Ducking. :hide:

[autorank]

24. Hey there

I'm not worried about negative or positive. I'm not surprised or feeling betrahyed. It's just what it is.

Couple of facts: 1) There was no relief on foreclosures despite the opportunity to help 1.7 million families with Dick Durbin's bill. His wasn't a radical effort and isn't the approach I preferred but I wish it had passed. 1.7 million families/1.7 million households (some of those families may just be an owner and bunch of cats). Couple of days after Arlen joined the fold, the vote was 45-51 and Dubin's bill went down. Was he being negative when he said the banks run the place? 2) For years we've had ultra low inflation but bank cards are at 29% when they feel like it. The process of getting there is made transparent by the bill but they can still do it. I use American Express and don't deal with these tricks. But the process of getting the interest rate up is as bad as the rate, but the rate's the thing.

A few weeks ago the IMF said we're in a depression - the US and Western European coutries. Is this the best Congress can do? Apparently there are a bunch of people there who think it's OK to vote with big money on the big issues consistently.

People are hurting, they're getting evicted. Here's what it's like:

What happens when you're thrown out of your home or apartment and you have no job?

To begin with, you're poor.

You can live on the street, move in with relatives, or seek to rent a home or an apartment. After a foreclosure, your credit rating will probably disqualify you from most opportunities at the outset. If you're in a warmer climate, you can live in a tent city which began springing up across the country last September.

You can and will enter an entirely new world where you're exposed to a variety of risks that will make it very difficult to put your life back together again. Crime, infectious diseases, underpayment for work, and increasing social isolation are routine.

You can become a crime victim. In your new world, that of the poor, you will find that you're among the group with the majority of violent crime victims.

You can seek and receive occasional "subprime" medical care in hospital emergency rooms. But the days of serious attention to an ongoing condition, arthritis for example, are over for you.

You can watch your life melt away and your family suffer, all without the prospect of any real assistance. Homeless shelters are full in most places. Public health programs have been overflowing for years. The "welfare state" simply doesn't exist. You're screwed.

http://www.apj.us/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2199&Itemid=2

[babylonsister]

26. You really don't have to convince me.

But are you blaming this on the CC bill, the bankruptcy bill, or whoever might have inspired this disaster? People are trying to get a handle on it. I know many people are suffering, but I don't know who to blame at this point. I just hope someone can fix it sooner rather than later.

[autorank]

29. I do

Blame The Money Party

[babylonsister]

33. Sigh. I love you because you're so

logical, but I get the impression you're angry. I'm not reading those links tonight, btw.

I want to think this guy has his shit together. You're not helping. And thanks. :hug:

[autorank]

35. I just tell it like it is and I sound angry

With great deference to the fantastic Harry Truman.

:hug:

(That's a fun series. I have a strange definition of fun :evilgrin:)

[flyarm]

56. thats the point..they are not trying to fix it for the middle class..in fact daily they fuck the

middle class while protecting the big boys !!

You think your $20.00 checks or even $100.00 checks matter to them???????

ahahahahahaha..yeah right!

[Junkdrawer]

58. Self Delete - Posted wrong spot

[truedelphi]

38. It's a good thing you don't have a dog, because the

Situation is only going to be good for Obama's Wall Street buddies, and the rest of us won't be able to feed our dogs or cats.

Nine trillion "leaked" from Main Steet to Wall Street, in the eight months since the original suppoosed 700 bnillion dollar Bailout, and there is no accountablility. None.

See Alan Grayson try to find out if there is oversight

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXlxBeAvsB8

[babylonsister]

40. So you think the situation is being exacerbated instead of

people trying to fix the fuck-up of 8 years of endless ennui, where no one gave a shit?

[truedelphi]

41. Okay look the situation started with repeal of Glass Steagall

Eight brave people in the Senate voted against that repeal. Eight!

That shows how fucked we are. (The Money Party offers one ring to rule us all --one
ring to bind us.)_

WIthout Glass Steagall, we ended up with investment firms going ahead and leveraging themselves.

One example - in AIG's situation - there was 500 Billion dollars worth of derivative risk - and only 100 Billion dollars in assets backin that. Now one of the economic scholars I talked to said we didn't have to worry - because surely AIG would not ask for 100 pennies on the dollar -0 they would understand that it would be good not to make chumps out of us taxpayers.

Unfortunately, although those were words of wisdom, AIG went ahead and did exactly the unbelievable - they insisted on 100 pennies on the dollar. not to make up the portfolios of the school teachers and fire fighters who lost 40 % of their pensions - but for their big time relations with other large banks.

You say that now there are things being done to FIX the eight years of fuck ups. Okay what things are being done? Is anyone anywhere in the halls of Congress submitting the return of Glass Steagall? (Maybe Grayson will do something along those lines.) Geithner is deliberately, as far as many of us can tell, making a patchwork of "tight regulations" (That is how he frames them, but again many of us doubt him) that will probably have the same type of loop holes that allowed for the bonuses to go through, and that allowed for the NINE TRILLION dollars to leak out.

If you know of some action that has been taken that is going to flip this economy around and create some jobs, pls advise me. I'd love for some good news. But with nine trillion missing, we are heading for hyper inflation - and those jobs better pay $ 200 an hour.

[babylonsister]

43. When was Glass-Steagall overturned? Who are you blaming?

Come on. At least provide a link if you are so invested in this, but I'm not. I'm listening to an idiot on Charlie Rose. Then the sand man.

[truedelphi]

51. I am blaming the Money Party. Period.

If you wanna watch something informative, here's part of the Moyers-Black interview

www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/watch.html

Those of us critical of Obama's economic policies DID NOT expect him to turn the economy around in four months. But we didn't expect a nine trillion dollar give away, either. Especially not a giveaway to the very people that created this mess.

By the way, you are invested in this. The nine trillion dollars represents $ 30,000 that you now owe to pay it off. That tax will come in the forms of increased taxes or inflation.

[flyarm]

61. I came to understand last year for once and for all..when going to Iowa and SC

for Edwards..and the shit I saw..there are no longer two parties..there is one party with one giant money pot in the middle..see you are not invited to the $10,000. buck a head dinner parties..no siree..that is where deals just start!! But the media boys are all there..yes siree..they are there drinking the most expensive champagne, and booze..and rubbing elbows with the high and mighty..and celebs..yes sir..you never see those parties do you?? You make signs and do all the grunt work in a campaign..and who do you think is sitting in those dinners and getting special breakfasts, and lunches?? It sure as hell is not the middle class folks..unless you are a middle class folk..who can Pony up the $10 grand a pop..over and over again!!

[truedelphi]

82. What is so sad is that Obama came in with what?

A sixty two or three per cent mandate.

Wall Street had screwed up so badly - all the new President had to do was honestly address the American people, explain that it was time to back away from the privately held Federal Reserve, and move to a Central Bank.

It's not rocket science- neither Issa nor Kucinich are the smartest people in any room. But they are well aware that the laws and regs put in place in the 1980's (to help America recover from the S & L debacle) would work perfectly well in the situation we have been in since Oct 2008. Jes' hand the money over to chartered state banks, and those banks can hand it over to We the People.

Instead, Obama is setting up another "Faux" economy, and the banksters will either simply steal the money and so 'good bye middle class,' or if they do set up the Dow Jones and NASDAQ it will be through another faux bubble. And in that case, they will simply wait until they can get their hands on the remaining 60% of the working classes' pensions.

In any event, no jobs that pay well are being created. In fact today is the day I have to figure out if I wish to vote on the Faux propositions regarding California's economy. We californians are at least sixtreen billion bucks in the hole out here - that sixteen Bil represents one fifth of one percent of the nine trillion that the banksters are sitting on.

[defendandprotect]

155. Evidently, within days of 9/11 - Sen. Phil Graham/GOP put the 200+ page bill . . .

into some other massive legislation being passed -- don't recall what

it was but near 2,000 pages -- and he did that shortly before the vote --

two days before? Phil and his wife -- profited quite well from his moves,

as well!

[fooj]

50. THIS caught my attention in 2005.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00020

Here's the roll call link to the Dayton Amendment #31.

Obama voted AGAINST limiting the amount of interest that can be charged on any extension of credit to 30%.

Yippie skippy.

"Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining" comes to mind. The irony of it all is that I got the info re: interest rate cap/Dayton Amendment on DU the day the votes were cast. In plain sight.

[Greyhound]

54. The fact that you believe you "don't have a dog in this fight" indicates just how shallow

your thought process is. Whether you are already poor, or even live in a nation with a central bank, your future will be dramatically effected by the aggressive inaction of our "representatives".

[Reterr]

133. just how shallow your thought process is

No kidding...shallow, petty etc. etc.

[flyarm]

55. don't hold your breath on that 9 months bullshit..you will expire!! eom

[Reterr]

131. Why is it ok for you to voice your complaints against Obama or whoever

But if anyone else does it you must obnoxiously tear them down? Oh thats right...because you also posted 50 other positive articles or something?
Guess what its a message board-people post the way they want to. Some people have actual lives outside of this board and don't sit around thinking your criticisms are fine while everyone else's should be suspect because they didn't post all the positive stuff etc.

You really add nothing much to the discourse yourself in threads like these except some petulant snark. Oh of course you are not invested in it...
Doesn't keep you from posting an opinion...

Your posts are honestly some of the most barf-worthy on here, when you are not simply copying and pasting other people's work, but actually posting your own shallow, dumb opinions. You usually say you don't understand this or that issue or are not invested in it but then continue to tear down anyone who is invested in some issue and/or has a different opinion than yours.

[ProSense]

27. Mortgage fraud bill goes to Obama to sign

Mortgage fraud bill goes to Obama to sign

Dodd's bill

[autorank]

32. k*r More enforcement is a good thing.

The FBI is ready to roll (from Dec. 2007)

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article3279691.ece

On edit: This is actually intended for your thread;) but I'll k*r your reply.

[Badgerman]

30. Same crap, now it's OUR people expelling it. n/t

[leftofthedial]

44. but at least the brave Congressional DEMOCRATS did not alienate the

credit card lobby. That ensures they'll have plenty of cash with which to bring even more DEMOCRATS to Washington in 2010. Just think what the DEMOCRATS can do with even more voting power in DC!

See? We win! The Congressional DEMOCRATS are much smarter than we are. They are privy to information we can only guess at.

[babylonsister]

45. What's your point? Why aren't you advocating making

anything better instead of trying to make everything worse?

You are transparent, again, and again, you don't disappoint.

[leftofthedial]

46. Is there some sort of baton you lot pass to one another,

like a relay race, or WWE tag-team match?

Make things better. Work to improve the quality of Democrats we send to office.

[babylonsister]

47. You're not working to do anything except honing your sarcasm.

Very evident, and your criticism falls on deaf ears for me. Instead of being a smart ass and trashing every which way but loose, why don't you try another tact? Might work, might not. But at least you wouldn't be so damned boring.

[leftofthedial]

48. So there is a baton?

Talk about boring.

The LAST thing anyone here wants to do is criticize a group of congressional representatives for voting FOR banks and AGAINST people. That's really bad! That kind of criticism will get you called all sorts of names.

You have NO idea what I do the 23 hours a day I'm not on DU.

[babylonsister]

49. Then take a chance and actually talk about what's bugging you

instead of being an asshole who gets their posts locked. Just a thought. And bon soir.

[Reterr]

134. "your criticism falls on deaf ears for me"

Yet here you are arguing and attacking (as always). The irony of someone who posts the way you do calling someone else boring is amazing :eyes:.

You get a free pass here for your bullying, pettiness and general obnoxiousness only because you are some sort of institution here among other people who spend as much time here as you do. You seem to have spent every waking minute on this board either posting articles written by other people or attacking everyone who doesn't see exactly eye to eye with you for God knows how long.....

[Jim Sagle]

76. That's why they get to play 11-dimensional chess.

;)

[leftofthedial]

79. they're just "stringing" the repukes along...

[autorank]

53. Small Businesses Often Rely on Credit Cards - Big Banks are Screwing Them

Small firms lobbying for credit card protections

Reduced limits, higher interest rates can stymie operations where cash flow is crimped

4:30 am, May 18, 2009
http://www.crainsclevelandcom/article/20090518/SUB1/905159944/1006&Profile=1006

Lou Licata hired his law firm’s new marketing manager on his credit card.

In this recession, he thought Licata & Toerek in Independence could benefit from someone who could get the firm’s name out. But with the economy down, he didn’t have the cash flow to make the hire.

Bank of America credit cards helped with that — at least until the bank reduced Mr. Licata’s credit limit, eating into the $50,000 cushion he thought he had.

The National Small Business Association estimates 59% of small business owners use personal or company credit cards to finance their businesses. And most of them have had the interest rates on those cards increased or credit limits reduced, according to a new survey by the organization.

[Blue_Tires]

57. kick

[autorank]

173. kick those tires!

:kick:

[Junkdrawer]

59. Yeah, but we get AK-47s in Yellowstone, so it's all good. n/t

[OneBlueSky]

60. whatcho mean "again?" . . .

I believe the correct word would be "still" . . . it's an ongoing and all encompassing problem . . .

[autorank]

69. I stand corrected - "still" it is! n/t

[ClarkUSA]

63. Tell it to DLC Senators. Read NYT: "Who Voted Against Capping Credit Card Interest Rates?"

Pres. Obama wanted to cap rates at 15% but Congress wouldn't have it.

Link: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/who-voted-against-capping-credit-card-interest-rates/

[mdmc]

64. thanks for the link

[autorank]

68. That's the core of the problem

59 or 60 Senators is great but when you get 45 to vote for the Durbin bill, which was very reasonable. The other 15
just do their thing and screw their constituents but get the mantle of "majority party."

15% would have been fair and also a great relief for people struggling.

Even though they kept their interest rates, the banks are griping about this. Amazing.

[fooj]

80. He voted AGAINST a 30% cap on rates in 2005.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00020

It's called a pattern.

Like I said in an earlier post- Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

[ClarkUSA]

84. He addressed this during a debate. He said, "I thought 30% potentially was too high of a ceiling."

I and alot of other credit-card users agree with him. 15% is much more reasonable. Too bad Senate DLC DINOs sided with their
corporate masters.

[fooj]

Obama SAYS alot of things.

Hell, there's plenty of CURRENT evidence that shows just that. What he SAYS and what he DOES are two different things.

"I thought 30% potentially was too high of a ceiling."

If 30% was too high, what is he doing now that some people are being charged up to 59% interest? What a crock.

He hasn't done a fucking thing about it. Zip. He has COMPLETE MAJORITY in all branches of government. Everything Obama has wanted thus far he has gotten. EVERYTHING.

"Too bad Senate DLC DINOs sided with their corporate masters." Yep. We're in full agreement there. That's EXACTLY the way I felt when Obama voted AGAINST the cap in 2005.

[ClarkUSA]

100. You are blaming Pres. Obama for something he is not responsible for. Go tell it to Senate DLC Dems.

Stop blaming President Obama for everything to do with this and own up to the fact that Senate DLC Democrats killed rate capping.
I provided ample proof of this.

And what has other recent Democratic presidents ever done about this issue? Nothing. President Obama has done more to protect
consumers against creditors than any president in my memory, so spare me any further ranting.

[maryf]

111. So maybe he should veto???

until they cap the interest?? he has that power!

[fooj]

116. Shhhhhhhh...

there's no room for any truth in this discussion. :hi:

Apparently people have forgotten that it is our responsibility as citizens to question our government.

[maryf]

154. Absolutely!

Some of us know our civic duty! Lets keep reminding folks, shall we?? :toast:

[fooj]

114. I know. I know.

He's not responsible for ANYTHING. Nothing is his responsibility. It's everybody elses fault. Sounds like the new boss is the same as the old boss.

FYI, you haven't provided ample proof of anything. What proof have you provided? Words. Just words. He voted AGAINST a 30% cap. His bullshit excuse is ridiculous on its face. You don't oppose something and then vote for it.

I was simply stating a fact. Spare me your lectures. Your enabling isn't helping the American people but I think you already know that.

[ChiciB1]

65. Yeah, I Saw Dorgan On C-Span This AM Saying "This Issue" Wasn't On The

table, and I posted somewhere about it!

I'm going to get hit on for this, but as each day goes by and each new revelation is exposed... I just don't think "we the people" got much change with Obama! LOTS of photo ops, just not much change! I fought with a rate hike from a bank that bought another bank and finally just applied for a credit card with my credit union!

I consider myself one of the "lucky" ones when we really shouldn't have to be fighting "them that gots" when "we that don't gots" seem to keep "sliming" the palms of the power brokers!!!

[autorank]

67. It's starting to look like "Us versus Them"

They're wiping the floor with us. I have not given up that things can turn around. But things are
very serious and we need some relief very soon.

[maryf]

113. Obama could turn this around...

by saying he won't sign until the people's interests are better protected...I'm not counting on it, but he could...the power of the veto is pretty damn strong...

[blindpig]

115. The biggest problem:

Too many don't understand who is 'Us' and who is 'Them'.

Now Reed's soldier, he understood.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

70. This Really Pisses Me OFF

[blindpig]

72. K&R

What's it gonna take?

[ChiciB1]

101. If A MOVEMENT Can Get Started... I'll Be There With Bells On... Why Aren't

some of the BIG GUYS calling on us citizens to ACTION??? If THEY lead, WE WILL follow... at least I KNOW I will!

I'm sick of it all, but fell HELPLESS at the same time!!! Yes, you can tell me this administration needs time, but in just a "little" time many promises have either been broken or at least skipped over and compromised! THIS IS NOT what I voted for!!

Blue Dogs, DLC, call them what you like, Obama NEEDS to get them to follow if he REALLY meant what he said while campaigning. I wonder now if I've been DUPED!!!!

[blindpig]

112. The 'Big Guys' are part of the problem.

They wouldn't be 'Big Guys' if they weren't compromised. Ya don't get anywhere if ya don't play ball.

New leadership must come from the people.

[ChiciB1]

117. My BAD!! Wrong Phrase... Thinking More Like LIBERALS Who Aren't

in Congress, those that used to be there to help and give a "shout out" at RALLIES... A DEMONSTRATION... UH, sorta like the Hollywood types ya know??

Like the FLOWERS, where have they ALL GONE?? Guess they sold out too!!!

[blindpig]

118. Who needs them?

We got the numbers. We just need those with ability to take responsibility. Not an easy thing, I know.

[omega minimo]

73. Invest in Pitchforks!!

[nolabels]

88. Just buy a clock

The economy looks to be in a free-fall right around the same time the fascist propaganda machine peters-out some time this fall

[droidamus2]

74. Screwed is right

Until we can convince the idiots in Congress and I mean both Democrats and Republicans that this is a government of, by and for the people not of, by and for the corporations we are all royally screwed. Each and every Congressperson when creating and voting on bills like this should first consider what is best for the people and then and only then consider what is best for business. If there is a conflict between the two people win every time over big business.

[imdjh]

75. Chase's latest game - NO PAYMENT DUE

I'm sitting there trying to figure out why I have a balance, but no payment due. My account was purchased from Washington Mutual.

On the second or third page, ie one that has no transaction info, it says something like, "You can skip a payment if you like. No payment is required in this billing cycle. blah blah blah normal interest charges will accrue..."

Yes, I am an adult and I am smart enough to know that this gift horse is a jackal. But not everyone even knows about their two cycle interest calculations, or that skipping this month, doesn't mean that next month you can simply pay off the balance while accruing a minor interest charge. In fact, what will happen is that this month's balance will be charged interest based on the average of last month and this month, which means that while my balance is only $600, the interest will be calculated on an average balance of over $1000. Moreover, by not paying this month, al of next moth's charges will accrue interest based on the rolling average.

Thanks Congress - clearly these people don't need to be regulated any more than the Gotti family.

[defendandprotect]

91. Randi was covering some of this . . . also corrected some billing tricks . . .

i.e., getting the bills out late leaving payer little time to get bill paid.

Now, they have to get the bill to you 21 days BEFORE due -

In fact, back when, you had thirty days to pay --

Interesting business schools we're running these days??!!!

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime!!!

[imdjh]

107. Note that Chase was one of the last, if not the last, to allow online payments.

I really despise the way Chase does business. They give money to all the right causes, they have wonderful workplace policies (and some not so wonderful ones but no one's perfect) , they have a diverse workforce and somewhat diverse top tier. But they export job and they treat all but their best customers (depositors) like crap.

If you have a Chase credit card and you don't have a Chase checking and savings account, you are a second class citizen and always will be.

[ChiciB1]

166. Yep, Chase Bought My WaMu Account & Thankfully I'm Paying Them Off!!

I too noticed that they showed "no payment due" this month, which is a TRAP!! I will say this, I for one have become extremely aware of everything about my credit card statement, this may be helpful to many others too!

Unfortunately, they have too many people over a barrel and they know it!! Paying off my balance won't hurt them much, but at least I KNOW I won't have to deal with them anymore. Other than the fact that I will get penalized for NOT using the card!

That really STINKS!!!

[closeupready]

77. Throwing us a bone.

They are disgraceful.

[SammyWinstonJack]

95. More like table scraps.

[closeupready]

98. Yep. Like a bunch of French aristocrats.

Treating the peasants in a similar fashion didn't work out so well.

[Hestia]

85. The only way tptb will pay attention is to pay all the cards off and use

layaway or cash. Strangle them where they - we are only feeding them to hold us as slaves...

[closeupready]

86. Easier said than done.

Many holders will need years and years to pay off these balances, at the interest they are charging.

[sandyj999]

93. That is exactly my plan. : ) n/t

[defendandprotect]

94. Getting rid of the check cashing cards and returning to checks would help . . .

Resist capitalism/corporatism wherever you can --

One of the things I'm trying to do is refusing to deal with robotic messages

unless they absolutely work for me --

just keep misanswering and asking for a customer rep --

Screw up the system best you can!

[lefthandedlefty]

87. Guess what I`m so used to it I don`t need KY jelly anymore

[newportdadde]

89. Of course its worthless it got 90s votes. If it made big credit uncomfortable in the

slightest it would have been a knock down dragout fight to the death.

[defendandprotect]

90. We need a return to usuary laws -- especially on Student Loans . . .

Student Loans used to have a 6 year limit -- !!!

Now, can go on into infinity!!

Bibical usuary is 10% . . .

Jubilee years provide for total overturning of profits back to populace --

When is the Vatican going to try that one!!!???

[sandyj999]

92. Someone Tell me if this is true........................

I believe it was on GMA this morning that they said due to the fact they make no money on those of us fortunate to never carry a balance they not only will start charging a fee for the card but interest will start when the purchase is made. Anyone know if this is true?

[defendandprotect]

97. Where, oh where is RE-REGULATION of capitalism/corporations -- ????

And, let's dismantle those "too big to fail corporations" ---

pull those anti-trust laws out of moth balls!!

[Enthusiast]

108. +1, defendandprotect. nt

[bvar22]

135. You didn't get the memo.

Everything is just peachy now.
No need for those pesky regulations.

[billyoc]

99. Nationwide payment strike.

You know, just see what happens.

[autorank]

121. Now that's a "stress test." Lets see if they pass. n/t

[MasonJar]

102. No they did not get the cap on interest rates, but they got the ability

to carry arms into parks and wildlife refuges. Isn't a refuge a place of safety. Can you now imagine taking your children and grandchildren to a park or refuge?

[flvegan]

103. Who the fuck is surprised? Seriously.

Yahoo, we have a bunch of complicit bought and paid for Ds instead of bought and paid for Rs in power. Whoop de do.

[flyarm]

153. 100% dead on!! and we have some who support this shit that act like some others 8+ years ago making

excuses and acting like bullies ..against anyone trying to get the truth out..they are like a tag team! I know others have seen it clearly..the ones who come on any legit thread and proudly announce that they are putting the op's on their ignore list and the tag team bullshit.

Many many of us have seen this behavior before..it is very clear what tactics are going on..we have seen the same with a previous administration...it is meant to distract and to silence dissension, but more to slow the flow of info.
Sad but sometimes the same bs gets used on the American populous over and over again..successfully..if we let it.

[formercia]

105. It was all planned

They sucked us in with the free cards, zero interest period, low payments and high limits. Now that you're maxed out, they start turning the screws.

Just like a drug dealer who gives you a free fix. He knows you will be back.

[autorank]

174. Credit Contra Country

[theophilus]

109. Well, screw right back! Pay off your card and cut it up. That'll show em. n/t

[bagrman]

128. Pay off your card and then don't use it. They still have to send you a statement.

[maryf]

110. K&Rnt

[ChiciB1]

119. THIS IS ROYAL... I MEAN A REAL SCREW TO US!! It Started About

two weeks ago when I saw my interest rate went from 6.5% to 10.24%, I raised HELL with anyone within earshot. Chase bought WaMu, thus the hike! I called and wrote and called some more, contacted anyone that I was referred to. NEVER got an answer FROM ANYONE!!

So, last week I said... go to your credit union and I did. They approved me for a platinum card at 8.49% just LAST FRIDAY! And guess what I got in the mail today from Chase?? A little letter, with little writing saying that the rate will now go up to 19.24% starting July 2009!!

I NEVER EVER had a late charge, always paid much more than minimum, didn't have a high balance and they do this to GOOD CUSTOMERS!!!

Fine print says IF you don't like this rate, write us and keep the current 10.24% but you won't be able to use your card again!! OR you can accept the rate and HEY, you'll be a real pal!!

Boy, did I ever dodge a bullet! Thank you CREDIT UNION, thank you soooooooooooo much!!!

I HATE Chase!!!

[autorank]

120. They do what they want, period. No consequences! n/t

[truedelphi]

126. Glad to hear that you put the screws back on them.

Most people do not know it, butyou as a consumer have the right to back out of your credit card any time that you want.

You simply call the 800 number and tell them it's over - that you want to cancel the account.

They must then keep you at the current percentage rate - and of course you owe the balance and will not be able to continue using the card. But the constant thing of getting shat on will end the minute you make that call.

[FrenchieCat]

122. I look at this a bit differently.

I have 4 credit cards, with interest varying from 13% to 23%.
Personally, I'm gonna need to try and get these bad boys paid off ASAP,
and I need to stop charging unless I can pay off the balance by next
billing cycle!

Part of why we are where we are is because some of us do have a "free money" mentality,
and if high interest rates is what will begin to desuade some of us from charging too much,
that may be a good thing for the economy down the road a bit...
because we should be saving more, not charging more in a long run.
So although I understand how folks would like a lower credit card interest rate (and so would I),
I also think that it may be good for us to start forcing ourselves to change our spending habits,
where we aren't just buying shit we don't need just cause we've got the credit to do it.

I know, I know...sometimes a credit card is the difference between eating and not eating....
or paying a light bill or such.....
so, yeah.....I can see why folks would be mad that the interest rate is so high....
but I see both sides of the argument on this one,
and I'm not sure that having credit cards with a lower interest rate is the solution
to helping our economy function better.

This was a credit card bill of Rights so that you would know what you are signing up for,
not a credit card get some cheap money bill! Just sayin'! :shrug:

[ChiciB1]

165. You DO Make Sense, But Having ONE Credit Card & Being Responsible By

paying on time and being what I would call a very good customer shouldn't give them any right to raise an interest rate from 6.40 to 19.24 for no reason other than the fact that they can!! There are times when a credit card can be helpful. But I have also begun to realize that using a debit card is useful too. I have decided to debit more often now. I'm paying a monthly bill so why not debit. But then, I never had what one would call a high balance. I still like to keep a card handy. I have 2 other cards, but never use them. I was told this would go against my credit rating which is something that also astounds me! Don't use a card, or close the account and they penalize you. Makes NO sense to me!

I see your point about credit card abuse too... I have seen friends of mine struggle with making a minimum payment and have interest rates that scare me to death! Just talking about it causes my stomach to lurch! I would never be able to sleep if it was me.

As for buying "stuff" you don't need, just buy something on a whim is a complaint I've had for a very long time... since the economy has tanked the yard/garage sales around here are everywhere and you can pick up almost anything for almost pennies! I've seen stuff that I know cost hundreds of dollars being sold for $20.00 to $30.00 which just goes to show how much waste there really is.

I also have a garage sale every year, but I grow plants and sell them and throw in stuff that have either been given to me or have been replaced because of need. But I've been guilty of buying stuff I don't need too! I haven't done so in quite some time though, the economy does put the brakes on and this could be an effective way of showing the big guys a thing or two.

Still raising rates on good customers is almost a crimes as far as I'm concerned. Why try to be a good customer if you're going to get screwed anyway???

[snappyturtle]

123. K&R Wish I could tack on a few more K&Rs! I agree with every word

you wrote. Thanks.

[autorank]

124. Thanks snappyturtle!

If you liked this, you'll love these two


Throw the Bums Out — All of Them!Senate Tycoons Kill Mortgage Aid for Main Street (May 1)
http://www.apj.us/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2361&Itemid=2

Economic Disaster - Are You Next? (Feb 8)
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0902/S00147.htm

We'll prevail but not with out a fight.

:hi:

[snappyturtle]

125. Thanks, autorank!

:hi:

[autorank]

157. Any time

:thumbsup:

[DemReadingDU]

140. When there are no consequences for these shenanigans,

the people will eventually rise up and revolt. Might take awhile, though, after more people will be jobless, homeless, moneyless and hungry.

[autorank]

158. And it will begin when we all just ignore them.

There is a real economy. It's good people working hard on their own, in their own business, or for another business or government entity. The people who do the work that makes the product/service bought because it's a real value constitute the real economy. That survives, it's not insolvent or in massive debt. The elites and rulers who do nothing but take are who are isolating, no succeeding, from the real economy, the real country. And they'll be reeling.


:hi:

[Jester Messiah]

127. It's -progress-.

What did you think was gonna happen, Obama would wave his magic wand and everything would be perfect? Rome was not built in a day, and there is really good stuff in this bill. I spent all of my 20's in debt thanks to poor credit decisions made in college, that the credit card companies were only too happy to enable. The protections in this bill for students are coming too late for me, but I'm glad that the current crop will be spared these depredations.

So lighten up, Francis. Change doesn't happen overnight, but it IS happening.

[autorank]

175. The thread is about the failure of Congress. n/t

[ProSense]

129. Senate OKs bill to rein in credit card practices

here

[L0oniX]

130. Like I and others have said ...it's about money for election campaigns.

Until we stop the lobbyists, banksters and insurance sociopaths from bank rolling our congress critters and senators it will be the same as it ever was and you can count on it!

[stray cat]

132. If you carry a balance a credit card is a loan without requiring any collateral

where else are you going to get a loan without collateral? Credit card companies aren't there to be friends but they shouldn't be crooked and that is what the bill addresses. If you take out a loan at a given interest rate its your choice - they just shouldn't be able to change it after the fact.

[TBF]

136. K&R n/t

[Butch350]

137. Simple Solution...

Cut back on the credit card usage.

[tonycinla]

149. Exactly!

At least 30% of the things people charge in this country they do not need and actually harms them in some way or other.How did we get so far away from ben Franklin's advice that it is better to go to bed hungry than borrow money for your supper.Folks we are just too damn soft.

[Stinky The Clown]

138. More feel-good/do-nothing bullshit

[and-justice-for-all]

139. Well then, feed all you cards to the shredder...nt

[roamer65]

141. Let the banks hang themselves on this one.

I have the cash ready to pay off my remaining balances. Fuck 'em. People are just going to stop using them.

[stoll]

142. the cynicism just keeps on growing

Now I am not a "glass half empty" type of person, but it is reaching a Scanners type moment of head explosion. First this credit card tid bit. Wow! How fucking lame is this? I think the anger is beginning to boil even more then during the Bush years because I was expecting Democrats, after all their shit talking, to actually do something. On a side note, how about Congressional Democrats folding on Obama's request for the 80 million to close Gitmo? Just another piece of confirmation that these guys are ALL full of shit.

[WestSeattle2]

143. Typical bullshit from the Senate....

do nothing, prance in front of the cameras, pretend like they give a shit about the middle-class, then head off to fundraisers sponsored by banks and credit card companies.

Just another day in the life of ethically and morally-challenged "representatives".

Nothing new here, move along.

[mod mom]

144. Even the folks who pay off every month get screwed-no more grace period,

higher rates-what BS! I may be very liberal, but fiscally I've always been conservative. I always paid off my credit card. I refuse to use an ATM since they are made by DIEBOLD so I never have cash. I buy everything w a credit card. Now I read that even folks like me get screwed:

Credit Card Industry Aims to Profit From Sterling Payers

By ANDREW MARTIN
Published: May 18, 2009
Credit cards have long been a very good deal for people who pay their bills on time and in full. Even as card companies imposed punitive fees and penalties on those late with their payments, the best customers racked up cash-back rewards, frequent-flier miles and other perks in recent years.

Now Congress is moving to limit the penalties on riskier borrowers, who have become a prime source of billions of dollars in fee revenue for the industry. And to make up for lost income, the card companies are going after those people with sterling credit.

Banks are expected to look at reviving annual fees, curtailing cash-back and other rewards programs and charging interest immediately on a purchase instead of allowing a grace period of weeks, according to bank officials and trade groups.

“It will be a different business,” said Edward L. Yingling, the chief executive of the American Bankers Association, which has been lobbying Congress for more lenient legislation on behalf of the nation’s biggest banks. “Those that manage their credit well will in some degree subsidize those that have credit problems.”

-snip

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/19/business/19credit.html

Well they can count me out of their profit margin. I'll resort to using checks & cash. It will end up hurting them because I know as a former merchant, that they make $ with every purchase (% of purchase price is paid by the merchant for the service). So screw them and their Money Party enablers.

[ProSense]

146. Actual details

here

[defendandprotect]

147. And, just as a reminder... credit/cash cards cost merchants heavily . . .

3.5%, I believe on the total purchase normally ---

and American Express is 7% -- !!!!

That's why a lot of merchants don't wan to take AE.


AND, needless to say, this cost of doing business is transferred back to the consumer!

[mod mom]

167. In my case it fluctuated by monthly card gross sales & avg transaction amount.

I didn't take Am Ex, for the reason you stated. It's a big chunk of dough they're raking in!

[defendandprotect]

170. Unbelievable, really . . .

and we need to get usury back again -- Bibically that's 10% . . .

Mafia used to charge 20% - $6 for $5 -- broken legs, also!

Especially re the Student Loans -- they used to have a time limit of 6 years!!!

Now, they can go on and on and on --- infinitely.

[farmboxer]

145. As long as America is a Plutocracy

"We The People" will have no chance.

[defendandprotect]

148. We have many chances to screw up capitalism/corporate power . . .

stop using a cash checking card --
it costs business more and those costs are transferred back to the customer.

When you get a robot on the phone . . . if it isn't entirely working to your
benefit, continue to say . . . I want to speak with a representative.

There are many other ideas, I'm sure ---

Let's all think of some --

[Old Hob]

150. quit buying stupid things. pay off your loans and debts. keep your money in gold instead of a bank

and don't let the IRS know how much of it you have or how much you made when you sold it. Cancel your cable television, Refuse to buy the newest cell phone or other miracle gadget. Trade your music instead of buying it. Go play frisbee at the park instead of watching the newest stupid movie to come out of Hollywood. Watch the system collapse.

[maryf]

156. Buy things second hand,

repair things (btw auto repair shops are going great guns!)

[Old Hob]

161. Oh yeah, definitely. Need a new car, don't go to the dealership, go to the internets.

I shaved off an obscene amount of money off of my last car purchase that way. The 2 previous owners ate up all the initial devaluation that you get the moment you roll off the lot. I saved roughly 10 grand and still had about two years worth of factory warranty left on an immaculate car. I really think that considering the dismal interest rates that banks are offering these days, it makes more sense to keep your money stored in your own personal safe too. A.) it screws with the fractional reserve banking system (which sucks) B.) there's no risk of not being able to pull your money out in a banking panic situation C.) you can stay off the grid more easily with cash. and D.) you're less inclined to spend your hard earned cash on stupid shit when you actually use cash instead of a little plastic card. Staying out of the market also fucks the system as does staying out of debt. You'll never see a rate of return that's greater than your credit card interest rate so pull your money out of the market and pay the credit cards off first and foremost and then don't use them anymore. If your debt free and have loose cash, buy gold and silver. Gold and silver are the arch enemies of fiat currencies and the economic systems that are based on them.

[defendandprotect]

171. Excellent ideas . . .

and I would also add that turning off the TVs . . .

actually putting them in the closet would be better yet!



Don't tell anyone, but I keep my TV on while I'm on the computer --
I've only just gotten back my C-span stations which Comcast had taken
away so I'm catching up. Watch the occasional old movie -- no ads!

Jon Stewart, Olberman, Schultz, Maddow --
I have a great little TV . . . when you mute it, it does TEXT!


:o

[autorank]

169. GE has the very best robots

You call GE credit and there's a endless loop of voice mails to the point where you want to throw the phone.
They'd made an error. I had to find their fax number, which was not co-located with the back room operation
and was told to use ... the 800 #. That ended quickly since I got a voice line but it was multiple calls
over two days, in and out. What garbage. It's the same in health insurance when they have to pay. About
1/2 of the companies routinely play games and then cry "ERISA." Time for these folks to go.

We need a national bank.

[lostnotforgotten]

151. And Where O Where Is The Vaunted Administration On Street Level Economics

Please don't tell me that it is change we can still believe in.

[change_notfinetuning]

160. Would you believe fine tuning?

Me either. More like fiddling around to get corporate campaign money for re-election. But, boy, do they look mahvelous.

[BrklynLiberal]

159. lots of noise...and no progress.....

[autorank]

162. KIck

:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

[CTLawGuy]

164. its either 100% or 0% huh?

NT

[autorank]

168. No, it's 15%. That's what Obama wanted % rates capped at. n/t

[reprehensor]

177. Thanks for the news...

Not particularly good news, but it's good to have this stuff on the radar.