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(You are not going to like this) Why we MUST demand single payer.

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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 07:21 PM
Original message
(You are not going to like this) Why we MUST demand single payer.
Edited on Sun May-10-09 08:08 PM by denem
Answer: Because we won't get single payer this time, but its the best way to get the best public option. Second, maintaining the Health Insurance model, is not a concession, but the best foundation for the future of universal public insurance. Why?

!. Pure Politics - the Health Insurance Industry will not accept a universal public option without a stick - the credible threat to decimate their racket. Moving the 'debate' from 'health plan vs health with a public option' to 'public option vs single payer' is a game changer.

2. The health-economics arguments are the same: The bigger tent (a) the lower the costs per member (b) The more comprehensive the insurer, the more bargaining power they have with health care players: drug companies, big hospitals, private medicine in general.

3.(adding to two) Single Payer (and the public option) goes a long way towards fixing Medicare / Medicaid. The old and the disadvantaged are the most expensive of all of the population. Expanding medicare as an option lowers cost per person, "Medicare for all" provides the lowest cost per person.

4. The public option + mandates is problematic - politicians need to explain exactly how low income earners and the poor do not suffer in comparison to single payer. They either have to choice of expanding public coverage or putting together a truly fair hybrid.

So basically, the arguments for a public option and single payer point in the same direction. By demanding single payer now, with clear simple points, we both advance single payer and demand sideways,that the Health Insurers back down on accepting a real public option.

BTW - An earlier poster was dead on in framing this about Health Insurance. I ask those against a public plan - Why are you defending Private Insurance companies? , Have you been screwed by Insurance companies? You know Private Insurers are accountable to no one but their shareholders. We need public insurance that is accountable to the public.

'Medicare Plus' Medicare plus some additional services not covered now) is an easy sell. Medicare for all is KISS. I don't like the term 'single payer'. Universal Public Insurance is simple and saleable.

Finally - I believe it would be better to keep the plan as insurance, with a sliding scale for the lowest paid.. The whole 'Why should I pay for ... xyz' disappears in an insurance system. There are easy retorts: you mean you don't want to may for grandma, because she costs the health system so much etc.

From my experience in the UK and Australia, if health care does not follow and insurance model, but goes into general revenue, or even a revenue fund, its not long before Government poaches the money, and health care is starved.

How would private insurance fit in? in a universal system Easy. The first part of a private premiums goes directly to the public insurance agency. They can offer whatever a la carte they want. Again, it's the politics of the thing. It's not single payer, you can insure with anyone you want to (but...

In summary we need to demand 'universal public insurance, accountable to the public', drop the words 'single payer', talk about Medicare Plus for all, and be aware they we are advancing the public option, and will hold the final (compromise) plan up to real scrutiny.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. What's not to like?
:shrug:
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Demanding single payer knowing we are making the agrument for the public option.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I see the public insurance option as the "foot in the door" which may keep single payer open
as an option for the future. Ironically, the OP is suggesting we use the Single Payer demand as our "foot in the door" for a public option - either way, we'll be further ahead than if we allow the profiteering insurance and pharmaceutical corporations to entirely shut us out of this debate.

Just sayin'
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It's bargaining
You start out demanding something outrageous, fightning tooth and nail for it, and then winding up making concessions and getting something like what you really wanted. Republicans are really good at it, because it's how they operate in all areas of life. Democratic representatives either don't know what bargaining is or don't represent the people they claim to.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Single-payer health care isn't outrageous
but your point is taken.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Good point. I should have said "something you are extremely unlikely to get" eom
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. I see single payer as the only way to make sure that any public option doesn't suck
If it is underfunded, it will suck.
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Ernesto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I'm with you V!
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. insurance and for profit hospitals too big to fail
People will do and pay anything to keep from being sick and/or dying. The greedy SOB MBAs know this and as a patient you are quantified into just another capital resource. Congress is too corrupt to challenge this "free market" even though it really means socialism for the rich. Health care has turned in to a grotesque market trading, buying and selling human flesh.
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. I'm going to remember this:
Health care has turned in to a grotesque market trading, buying and selling human flesh. Excellent and graphic point. The fact that 22,000 people die each year (at least) doesn't sink in - this might.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. Agreed almost in toto . . .
But let's not fool ourselves. The insurance companies have politicians by the balls and are going to fight back with every fiber of their being: universal public insurance is an existential threat to them -- and it should be. They consume mass quantities of health care funding and deliver nothing useful. They need to go.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. It is impossible for anyone, much less an insurance company to have Harry Reid by
THE BALLS. Cause he don't got none.

Just sayin'





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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Sadly, a given. Perhaps "by the short hairs," then n/t
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Heh heh. That works.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. Hey - you put it into words much better than me - you certainly won't get any argument from me...!
Universal Public Insurance.

Mecicare For All.

quite simple, actually...
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. Interesting post, Denem. I like it.
Recommend.

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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. Good point - this is moving the Overton Window left.
In order to make even the public option acceptable, we have to pull the Overton Window left so that the public option becomes feasible. How do we do that? Push hard for single-payer! This also has the virtue of making the current broken-ass murder-by-spreadsheet system more and more unacceptable - pushed to the right of the window. Note that even the insurance companies are offering concessions now - they know they can't get away with pulling the same shit given the direction the political winds are blowing.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
16. The industry wouldn't currently be offering to find ways to save U.S. trillions...
on our health care expenses if they weren't terrified of universal coverage with a government plan option.

Sorry to say, it's an empty promise. Even if they could, their shareholders want dividends to grow, and the only way to do that is to continue paying hospitals and doctors less while denying even more claims by policy holders. At best, a short-term solution as more and more people are driven to demand universal coverage when they realize the only beneficiaries of the industry are stockholders and the denizens of the corner offices who deny care while raking in the insane $,$$$,$$$,$$$s.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
19. K&R
:kick:
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kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. K&R
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