Educational System Failure

[ls317]

Today I had a very intresting conversation with a relative who happens to be school teacher.They teach in the Inner city of Detroit the topic of conversion was a certain student,for all purposes lets call this student M.They teach LD students from grades K-6 from below avg incomes.M is in currently in the first grade( currently 8 Years old)M has doesnt have a basic skill set to move him from first grade to second grade.M cant not write their name, does not know the ABC'S cant count to 10 ,doesnt know the basic colors.and identity certain sight words.Basically this child has no normal patterns of speech,cant form words into basic sentences.This child was I.Q tested and they scored 38 well below federal mandates to qualify as a LD student.But according to this childs parent her child will not be labeled as a LD student, but yet this child has passed from K to 1st grade.And as an educator there hands are tied because they refuse to pass him on to the second grade.Basically this child makes a grunting sound his there version of speech.School adminstrators refuse to support her decision on this matter
This really makes me wonder who is failing who????


Teachers please chime in on this one??

[NewHampshireDem]

1. I'm not sure who you believe is to blame

The administrators in the school have no authority to override the parent. If the kid qualifies for special education, but the parent refuses services, then the only recourse the school has is to request a hearing--at their own expense. What is the likely outcome of such a hearing? Well, if the school prevails and the hearing officer decides to put the kid into special education, do you think the parent is going to be very helpful?

Parent's rights under FAPE can be found here: http://www.fapeonline.org/Parental%20Rights.htm

[ls317]

2. Good Point

But the child was tested at an IQ of 38...and the child is all ready 8 years old in the first grade!

[ulysses]

3. be wary of IQ tests, especially that young

[salin]

10. While I agree in principle

I have seen too many cases of misdiagnoses... this story doesn't pass the smell test. I don't think a full battery of testing (which is what happens when requested to initially receive services (and a lable/designation under law)) would be a) THAt far off and b) be so low and then have the child just receive an LD lable. I believe that around 70 the designation moves from LD to MMR (mildly mentally retarded) - and while I think faulty testing (esp at that age, as you say) might make a mistake between LD and MMR range - or between LD and regular rante (I have seen that many times) - there is no way that SpEd testing (if really done, in this case) would give a 38 IQ a mere LD lable. I think the story is fishy. There is something very wrong.

[ulysses]

12. oh, I agree.

Something is more than a little off. It happens, though.

:hi:

[IChing]

4. sorry calling bullshit on a 38 IQ

This person could not even function.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Agreed.

Sounds like something one would read on Snopes.

[cmd]

7. Agree, but the child does have a problem

based on his classroom performance. I don't think a psychologist could get a legitimate 38 IQ.

[ulysses]

9. erm...

A 38 would put a child in a severe intellectual disabilities category. The description by the OP isn't unrealistic - kids like that can function to an extent. The disability would be pretty obvious, though.

[salin]

13. What is unrealistic

is a child receiving full testing, getting a 38 and being labled as "LD". Something is really off. Note that I do not believe that IQ testing is accurate - I have seen kids labled as LD - who end up (when given the opportunity) well in college prep honors classes. I have seen an MMR lable where the student definitely has learning challenges -but has learned far more than the designation would suggest (suggestinbg the child has learning disabilities but not MMR). All that said - the average IQ is stated to be 100; the lable MMR I believe kicks in around 70 (maybe a little lower). There is NO way, had real testing by professionals occured that a 38 would end up with a mere LD lable. Why do I say "mere" - has to do with the level of services available to the child, and the level of state and federal dollars available to recompensate the school (or district) for providing those services. I do not question the functioning level of the child (per your post) - I DO question the whole scenario of a child having undergone thorough SPed testing, receivingt that low of a score and only having a designation of LD. That is ludicrious imo.

[IChing]

17. I disagree with my degrees I've taught and tested students

in all levels cognitive functionality and 38 would be severe mental retardation, it would be blatantly obvious and the child would not be able to function without intensive support and supervision at home and at school. The adaptive behavior of the student would be play into the evaluation of the student.

In early childhood mild disability (IQ 60–70) may not be obvious, and may not be diagnosed until they begin school. Even when poor academic performance is recognized, it may take expert assessment to distinguish mild mental disability from learning disability or behavior problems. As they become adults, many people can live independently and may be considered by others in their community as "slow" rather than retarded.

Moderate disability (IQ 50–60) is nearly always obvious within the first years of life. These people will encounter difficulty in school, at home, and in the community. In many cases they will need to join special, usually separate, classes in school, but they can still progress to become functioning members of society. As adults they may live with their parents, in a supportive group home, or even semi-independently with significant supportive services to help them, for example, manage their finances.

Among people with intellectual disabilities, only about one in eight will score below 50 on IQ tests. A person with a more severe disability will need more intensive support and supervision his or her entire life.

[ls317]

18. Numbers

Traditionally mental retardation has been divided into four levels of severity, based largely on IQ scores:

* Mild mental retardation: IQ scores from 70 to 55/50

* Moderate mental retardation: IQ scores from 55/50 to 40/35

* Severe mental retardation: IQ scores from 40/35 to 25/20

* Profound mental retardation: IQ scores below 25/20

[cmd]

5. This is a child who needs special education classes

Retaining him or promoting him does no good for him or his classmates. It's time to call in the courts. This child falls below learning disabled, he deserves special services.
To ignor that fact is child abuse.

[ls317]

19. My Point

Is if the parent refuses services what do you do???

[cmd]

20. Wish I could answer that

In my opinion, I think children's services should be called. If this child had a medical condition that was being ignored by a parent, children's services would step in.
This is an educational condition that needs to be addressed. If the courts have to do it, so be it. Forget the "IQ" test numbers, no reputable psychologist would be able to
get a legitimate number on a child this young. However, it is obvious that he is not getting the help he needs; and that it is the fault of the parents.

[donco6]

21. Good suggestion.

If the parent didn't participate in having the child identified during the preschool years by Child Find coordinator or Head Start, personally I think it's a good bet there are some neglect issues already on file. As much as placement in foster services is less-than-ideal (and assuming that the entire situation isn't just some fantasy story), it might be in the child's best interest to at least have someone checking into the situation.

[salin]

8. Something is wrong - 38 is far below what testing would lable as LD

I believe that somewhere around 70 the lable would move to MMR (Mildly Mentally Retarded) - 38 is so far below that, this the story just doesn't seem correct. I am not sure if it is state or federal rules that guide the determinations - but either way, I can not imagine that testing would lable this child as simply LD. Why is that important? Because the child would be due more services and the school would get more compensation to provide those services. That number is SO far off that I just think that in the re-telling of this story something has been missed. If not - the teacher should contact the District's head of Special Education Services with the documentation and request direction.

[ulysses]

11. sounds like they need to reevaluate.

If the IQ assessment is at all accurate - and I have my doubts - I can't imagine why they would put the child in an LD class.

[salin]

15. I can not believe that any evaluation

that gave a designation of a 38 IQ led to a designation (and level of services that follow) as LD. I don't believe the story enough to suggest a reevaluation. If true - the teacher needs to get in touch with the District's Special Ed Services Dept (the top of it) and scream bloody murder - as they are FAR out of compliance - just based on that IQ number (if valid and derived through thorough testing) alone. I just can't imagine a school or district willing to risk such a HUGE law suit.

I have seen parents reluctant for any testing (not wanting the label for the child). I have seen parents NOT tell a new school (transfer) about prior SpEd designation/IEPs (again not wanting the lable for the child). But once the testing has occured - with that level of score (which I seriously doubt is real for reasons expressed above) - the parent can *not* sign off on an IEP (and then there are legal steps to protect the child/family and school) - but I don't know that they can *not* sign off on the IQ score/designation. The place to prevent that from happening for a parent are fighting off the testing in the first place - however in doing so, the parent can not request and expect special services for their child. Likewise, if the child is in an LD class, the child has gone through the evaluation process so that hurdle (parent reluctance) did not prevent the testing. Then we get back to the ludicrious notion that the info provided is legitimate - that a childl is designated 20-30 points below when a child is designated Mildy Mentally Retarded (a designation thath is 30 points below the average IQ) - and is only designated as "LD" (the mildest - and with lowest protections per services provided of Special Ed designations.)

It is really odd to be arguing this point so vehemently - as 95% of the time I am very cautious and skeptical per the testing and designations (that can limit a child's educational opportunities). But being off - isn't likely to be 35 points off or so which one would have to believe to accept this story.

Either the story is total bs - or the 'testing' wasn't a formal evaluation but an individual (not trained) administration of some on-line or other nonscientific test that gave the score which is much lower than the actual testing (which we have to assume has happened or the child would not be qualified for LD/SpecEd services.)

[WinkyDink]

14. I'd feel better if the OP had apostrophes!

I mean, after all, the topic....!

[donco6]

16. How about "failure of Parenting System"?

The school cannot do ANYTHING if the parent refuses to place the kid in special education. Of course, it's easier to throw brickbats at the school.