It's hard to argue against a successful program.

[Joe Fields]

Re: Merit pay for teachers

I saw a very interesting report on CNN today. At a press conference in NYC today, Al Sharpton, Michael Bloomberg and Newt Gingrich stood in front of television cameras and microphones to tout the success of the NYC charter school program, complete with merit pay for teachers.

It's hard to argue with results. According to the NYC mayor, English and math test scores among black and latino students improved seven years in a row, compared to the same test scores statewide. Mayor Bloomberg went on to say that the the gap between test scores of the two groups was rapidly closing with the test scores of white and Asian students.

Granted, merit pay is just one aspect of the program. Accountability plays a huge part in the program. But the bottom line is results. There is no doubt that the public system is failing the kids. The kids deserve better. I am not in favor of the disintigration of the public education system, but it is in desperate need of an overhaul. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but it seems that in the case of the NYC charter school program, the success is quite evident, and merit pay plays a prominent role in it.

Odd that I haven't heard anything related to this here.:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. So you're saying there's a causation because of the correlation of test scores/merit pay?

[Joe Fields]

2. Yes. It has to do with accountability in the classroom.

Albeit, it is just a part of the equation.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. How much did your logic teacher get docked?

[Joe Fields]

5. How much did your Obtuse teacher get docked?

[zipplewrath]

6. You're missing the point

There is nothing in the story, and most likely no data at all, to suggest that merit pay had anything at all to do with the results being represented. Furthermore, outside of this story, these kinds of "successes" tend to be hard to replicate. The reason is simple, what is really going on is some "cherry picking" of both students and teachers. Almost anyone can throw together a group of students and teachers in a highly visible environment where there is priority given to the project and produce results. It's a whole 'nother mess when it is suppose to "just happen".

[Joe Fields]

7. The NYC mayor would even disagree with you on your premise.

If you saw the press conference, you would understand. Bloomberg said that it all boils down to if you do a better job, you receive better pay. In a merit pay system accountability is measured by a variety of instruments. It's quite clear that merit pay is directly having a positive effect on test scores of students.

[zipplewrath]

8. Propaganda

Of he would. He is an advocate. But it is far from "clear" that merit pay has anything to do with it. This is a multi-variant problem and no effort is being made to identify any correlation on a single variable basis. Again, the real "test" of all of this is the ability to replicate it. More than one school system had created an "experimental" school that was quite successful, only to become frustrated in trying to repeat it.

[Joe Fields]

11. You know, you are absolutely right. Why in the hell would I believe that

merit pay had ANYTHING to do with better results?

[zipplewrath]

12. Can you answer?

Really. Think about it. "merit pay" is also known as "performance bonuses". The banking industry is rife with them. Look what it did for them. Sports has all manner of performance bonuses, but they are often based upon individual performance, which has its draw backs in team sports.

The fundamental concept of merit pay for teachers implies you have a correlative metric by which you can detect "good" teachers and "bad" ones. And it also implies that the result will be to incentivize teachers to "do better". As with most employees, the desire to "do better" tends to be innate. Compensation tends to attract to the job people who already have a desire to do well. Otherwise, such merit pay tends to only make mediocre teachers seek to game the system.

You're functioning a bit like the "faith based" crowd. You believe it should work, so you conclude that it will. It has shown itself difficult to prove, which tends to suggest that it either doesn't exist, or doesn't do what we think it should.

[dem629]

4. Yet, some will try.

[Hannah Bell]

9. good thing you're not pretending to have answers.

just catapulting the propaganda.

[Joe Fields]

10. It's propaganda that the inner city charter program is working?

It's propaganda that African American and Latino inner city students have improved seven years in a row and are closing a once ever increasing gap?

You really need to check yourself.