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Senator Specter is Senator #60 - We were third and one - now we are first and goal!

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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:35 PM
Original message
Senator Specter is Senator #60 - We were third and one - now we are first and goal!
Edited on Mon May-04-09 09:43 PM by ddeclue
:)

No, you can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
And if you try sometime you find
You get what you need

- The Rolling Stones, "You Can't Always Get What You Want"




What those here who are bashing and being nasty towards Senator Arlen Specter fail to realize is that Arlen Specter is Senator #60.

We were 3rd and 1 and now we're first and goal.

Al Franken, Senator #59, gets you nothing without Arlen Specter, Senator #60 - no health care reform, no alternative energy, nothing but gridlock for the next two years while the Republicans try to run out the clock on us and then blame us for getting nothing done.

There are a lot of moderate Republicans in the world like Specter or Olympia Snowe or a number of others who no longer feel at home in the radical lock step world of the Rush Limbaugh/Karl Rove Republican Party. Governor Cristy Todd Whitman even wrote a book after she resigned from George W. Bush's administration as EPA secretary called "It's My Party Too".

Tolerance is supposedly a Democratic (both big and little D) virtue.

Let's practice it.

We claim to be the party that is tolerant of other people's beliefs yet all too often I see posts which attack someone like Specter who has admitted his own party is too crazy and has come over to our side however reluctantly. I frankly don't care if Arlen Specter isn't 100% on our side all the time. I honestly don't expect him to march in lockstep.

Thats OK.

I don't expect Democratic Senator Bill Nelson here in Florida to agree with me 100% of the time either but if I FINALLY after 28 years of the Reagan "Revolution" and particularly after 8 years of BushCo and after 5 years of my own sweat, hard work and money have a real opportunity to advance key portions of the Democratic agenda and see them passed and have a chance to take hold of the public's imagination and grow some roots so that they are hard to pull up later, I'll gladly take what I can get until 2010 comes along and who knows what we'll get then so let's take what we can get now and do what we can now and hope we have a better opportunity later.

Carpe Diem.

Politics is about the art of the possible - the art of compromise - not about throwing rocks and making the perfect the enemy of the better.

Earlier this year as a member of our local Move-On delegation, I was the spokesman at meetings between Move On and the regional directors for Senators Nelson (D) and Martinez (R) here in Florida to push President Obama's economic recovery agenda in Congress and also relayed that message to Congressman Grayson's office as well.

I could have gone into these meetings in a confrontational take no prisoners style or even arranged to protest their offices but that would have been profoundly counter productive - with the Democrats it would have been a case of not "taking yes for an answer" and being disrespectful to friends and allies who were already on our side.

In the case of Republican Senator Martinez, it would have only served to reinforce Republican stereotypes of MoveOn as a confrontational group that was out to get them and would have tremendously hardened their stance when what I - what Obama really needed - was Senator #60.

I was hoping to make Senator Martinez Senator #60 - and the best way to do that was to ask them what exactly he was looking for in order to stand with Obama instead of Mitch McConnell and friends.

Martinez' big issue was (as a former HUD secretary) finding a way to keep people in their homes and avoid foreclosure. That was a message I relayed back to Senator Nelson's office and to MoveOn.

Ultimately we didn't get Martinez' support for Obama's agenda but it was well worth the try to find out what he wanted and to treat his office with some civility and some courtesy and to try to see what kind of compromise was possible.

The worst he could have done was vote no - what did I have to lose by being civil about it?

And believe me as someone who has knocked a lot of doors for Democrats in the last five years it is often very hard to pull your punches and to be civil to Republicans after the last 8 years - but you have to remember that they truly aren't a monolithic group regardless of what their leadership thinks - there are religious conservatives, small government libertarians, fiscal conservatives, and moderates who used to not feel comfortable with the Democratic Party and who now do not feel comfortable in either party.

We should be courting these moderate Republicans if we want to really lock up control of the Senate and Congress for a generation - especially if the Republican leadership is hell bent on "purifying" their party and driving these moderates out anyways. If they think the problem with their party is that it isn't "conservative enough" we ought to be all too happy to help them out.

If moderates leave the Republican Party in droves the uber conservatives left in the GOP will quickly end up about as politically effective as the John Birch Society because ordinary middle of the road voters will then brand the GOP as intolerant crazies.

This has already largely happened already given that the GOP approval rating is now down to 21%. If they "purge" the GOP moderates and we welcome them into our fold then that number will quickly go down to 10% as we get things passed that actually help real voters and the remnants of the GOP look crazy, ineffective, petulant, and obstructionist.

Who knows who else they might send running from their party screaming like their hair was on fire? Arnold Schwarzenegger? Charlie Crist? Olympia Snowe?

As someone who has lived in the Deep South for much of his life but who has lived and traveled a lot of places, heed my advice on this - if you want to cause the total disintegration of the Republican Party, give GOP moderates a place to go and be accepted. Accept that you aren't going to agree with them a good part of the time but that you will be willing to tolerate moderate (not conservative) points of view and be civil and reasonable towards them.

If you do this you will win them over and you will actually take away the biggest weapon (lie) that conservatives try to use against us, i.e. that liberals are extremists out to take away their liberty, their property, their individualism, etc.

If you act politely, reasonably, and patiently and know how to not take the bait when GOP talking points are used - if you try to understand (not agree but understand) what they are about, if you listen to their point of view and be civil about it without sacrificing your principles you will find that many moderate and even some conservative Republicans' defenses will crumble and you will find that they will be persuadable with reason and fact.

I've been very successful with this strategy over the years and earned the respect of quite a few conservatives who thought they understood what it meant to be a "Democrat" but ultimately came away with more respect for Democrats after discussing politics with me enough times and consequently toned down their enthusiasm for Rush Limbaugh and the GOP.

Let's be clear: We're not going to agree with Arlen on a lot of stuff - but if you really want health care reform, he's going to be Senator #60 who will make that happen - THIS YEAR.

Before you bash him some more think about whether you'd rather have the immediate childish emotional gratification of that bashing or you'd rather finally have the satisfaction and sense of achievement in living a country that treats health care as a universal right of all Americans rather than a commodity that only the rich can afford.


Doug D.
Orlando, FL

PS: As for the remainder of the GOP coalition here's my advice - use their own rhetoric against them:

a) you can best disarm religious conservatives by quoting Matthew to them, you know showing how Jesus was for free health care, against school prayer, against capital punishment and didn't mind paying his taxes, etc., etc. Really fun to play with fundy minds that way...

b) you can best disarm the fiscal conservative/business types by showing how the Republicans are borrow and spenders instead of tax and spenders and that borrow and spend is far worse because you eventually have to pay it back with interest.

c) you can best disarm the libertarian types by bringing their attention to Bush's big brother crazy totalitarianism gov't with illegal wire taps, the PATRIOT act, etc, etc.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. so, how's his voting record since he became a not-republican-anymore? btw
there are committed and dedicated democrats in PA who might like to run for senate without being crammed down by the Obama bunch.

Msongs
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. You do understand that the ONLY reason Specter changed parties was to save his own political ass?
Take him at his very own words! He is very upfront that he feels absolutely no compunction to vote as Obama would want. Specter is not what this Democrat wants and he's not what Democrats in general need.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I don't CARE why he did it. THAT he did it is enough.
He's going to vote with Obama when the chips are down especially on health care so let's stop throwing temper tantrums until (and IF) we win more seats in 2010 and can get stuff passed without Specter at that point.

:crazy:
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. As if his voting record to date isn't bad enough, he's on record as
saying that he was misquoted as having told Pres. Obama that he would be a loyal democrat. He said (on video) on CNN that he DID NOT say he would be a loyal democrat. Joe Sestak must be doing cartwheels over that one! What a great ad that's going to make, esp. if they superipose his voting record over that soundbite. You can't make this stuff up!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. We have more than 11 players sprinting the wrong way down the field.
As analogies go, not your best work. :evilgrin:
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I fundamentally disagree with your premise.
I'd take moderate Democrats over the alternative any day.

Florida and Kansas and Iowa and places like them aren't Massachutsetts or California.

Here in Florida I'd much rather have Senator Nelson than Senator Katherine "Krazy Katie" Harris.

You wanna whine about Senator Nelson, consider the alternative.

When Bob Graham got out of the Senate we ended up with Senator Martinez which was far worse. (Martinez by Republican standards, isn't even the worst - he's no Mitch McConnell or Linsday Graham).

Doug D.
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. PA isn't FL.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It' aint MA or NY either... it's a lot more conservative than that
and is usually considered a 50 50 battleground state in Presidential years just like FL and OH so I disagree with you about it "not being FL".

Doug D.
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Spector should have stayed GOP and voted Democratic
and assured all he would retire after this term.

Ridge will be a strong GOP candidate if he runs.

There has to be a better Democrat with more chnace of winning than Spector.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. SpectEr not SpectOr.
Phil Spector is the record producer who just got convicted of murder.

Arlen SpectEr is the Senator who just switched parties and I think that he can win if Obama wants him to win.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Never argue an actual point when you can argue minimally related minutia instead.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I've already argued the ACTUAL point and decided to go for the minutiae for extra credit.
:P
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. Hey I spelled "Chance" wrong too
So we don't agree and I don't type nor spell perfectly.

Seems to me that Mr. SpectEr is of retirement age and there is more than enough time to find someone less slimy and more progressive to be a Democratic Senator.

Mr. SpectEr is free to vote his conscience regardless of party.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. You want conservative and Dem in PA, how about ....
Sestak, Joe, RAdm, USN-RET

Lifelong Dem.

Conservative.

An actual *loyal* Dem.

Unlike your boy, Arlen, the D turned R turned D ..... so far.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Not "my" boy... Obama's...
and your guy isn't going to win and personally I'd prefer a liberal but I'll settle for having 60 D votes in the Senate until Jan 20, 2011 so we can actually get some sh*t done.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. Duh ..... you'll have him until then.
Even if you support Sestak or anyone else, you have Arlen till then.

What was your point?
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. You're dreaming
About all that's been accomplished is a brief tweak on the GOP's nose. In the longer run, this actually has a good probability of hurting the Demoratic Party- AND the progressive agenda.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Nope... if Specter gets us health care passed this year that will be huge
and if and when the GOP ever gets back enough votes to challenge it they won't dare because it will be too popular (think Social Security) with the voters.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. He's already said that he's not going to do that
Edited on Mon May-04-09 11:56 PM by depakid
and denied saying that he was "a loyal Democrat."

The very best he brings is a vote (which we probably would have gotten anway) over some of the petty procedural moves. Other than that- nothing of substance.

Now due to the switch, there's a possibility that Ridge will run and beat both Tommey and Specter in 2010.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. He's going to vote for national healthcare...stop making it up and read the facts..
He's recovering from a life threatening cancer of his own.. read what he said today..


http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2009/05/specter_talks_health_care_at_h.html

Specter talks health care at Hershey Medical Center

by MONICA VON DOBENECK, Of The Patriot-News

Monday May 04, 2009, 2:39 PM

Sen. Arlen Specter told staff and students at Penn State's Hershey Medical Center today that sure, he wants to keep his job, but he also thought switching to the Democratic party would help him fight for health care reform. "Tomorrow, the number one item on the congressional agenda is health care reform," he said. "It's the president's number one item."

Specter was critical of the funding given to medical research under Republicans. "If we waged a war against cancer with the same intensity of other wars, Jack Kemp would be alive today," he said, referring to the former GOP Congressman and vice presidential nominee who died over the weekend of cancer. "It's scandalous we haven't done more to cure cancer or delay Alzheimer's or heart disease."

Harold Paz, CEO of the medical center, said Specter was influential in directing $10 billion in stimulus money to the National Institutes of Health. Hershey researchers have already submitted more than 150 applications for grants from that stimulus program, "with many, many more to come," he said.

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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. No- he stated EMPHATICALLY that he was not going to vote for the public option
And guys like Specter don't give the slightest shit what happens to anyone else- so long as they have theirs.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Sorry but you haven't quoted ANY articles.. I have..
You lose...

My quote is from today.. what have YOU got?

Doug D.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. He just said it yesterday in response to a direct question!
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SteelPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yeah
He did it purely to save his own political ass. I hoped that maybe one of the things Obama had promised for his support was for him to support the health care plan but then (from that link)

"GREGORY: It was reported this week that when you met with the president, you said, “I will be a loyal democrat. I support your agenda.” Let me test that on probably one of the most important areas of his agenda, and that’s health care. Would you support health care reform that puts up a government run public plan to compete with a private plan issued by a private insurance company?

SPECTER: No. And you misquote me, David. I did not say I would be a loyal Democrat. I did not say that. And last week, after I said I was changing parties, I voted against the budget because the budget has a way to pass health care with 51 votes, which undermines a basic Senate institution to require 60 votes to impose closure on key issues. …I did not say I am a loyal Democrat. "

So he's specifically said he wouldn't support any health care reform that is what we want. He's gonna do his own thing like always. He won't be a vote for Cloture. He won't vote for Health Care Reform. This was 100% because he thought he could get reelected this way.

I wish more people would realize this and get off the Specter bandwagon. We need to run a real Dem against him in the primary.
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