Dear Orrin Hatch, you stupid motherfucker, no one - NO ONE - is "pro-abortion"

[Stinky The Clown]

No one, you dumb-ass shitbird, motherfucker.

[jgraz]

1. Au contraire. If I was around when Orrin's mother was pregnant, I would have been.

[Cronus Protagonist]

2. I am

...in some circumstances.

[grantcart]

4. that is the OP's point. No one is for abortion for the sake of abortion, but for

choice so that it can be used . . . in some circumstances. Those circumstances are best determined by the woman in consultation withher doctor.

[Cronus Protagonist]

6. That's why my post was funny

I try to entertain

[texastoast]

3. You are so right

NO ONE.

He's just playing the frame game. To bad so many sheeple buy it.

[Blackhatjack]

5. Repubs believe in 'legislating from ONLY the RIGHT SIDE of the SCOTUS Bench" ...

Hatch is quick on the draw re-adopting the old Repub Maxim that the Obama Nominee must agree not to 'legislate from the bench.'

[AspenRose]

7. Thank you!

:applause:

[Arkansas Granny]

8. I get so sick of hearing that label applied to anyone who is pro-choice.

And the ones who seem to use it most are the "pro-lifers" who support war. Go figure.

[omega minimo]

9. If Democrats modeled stronger positions/language for women's rights and choice, the Repukes would

have a harder time selling the "pro-abortion" meme.

However, the language/positions on abortion are very R Lite, very watery and unconvincing.

The whole "reduced abortions" emphasis is capitulation.

But our president could hardly come out and speak for women's rights, privacy, health and socioeconomic equality, could he?

[Overseas]

10. I am glad President Obama has talked about that too.

It was refreshing to hear him speak plainly about what a difficult decision it is for any woman. That women don't make the decision lightly and consult their chosen moral advisers.

Glad he has opened the door to more honest discussion.

[DURHAM D]

14. Why do you think women must consult a moral adviser?

Would you say the same about a man?

Oh never mind - I know the real answer.

[Overseas]

16. No I'm just rephrasing what President Obama said. But yes, men would also

consult their moral advisers when making difficult decisions, I'd assume.

I liked it that President Obama was saying that to reinforce public understanding that it isn't a decision women make lightly. It is usually a decision made after careful consideration.

I used the term moral adviser because some women might not consult religious authorities, they might just talk things over with a close friend whose ethics they admire.

Certainly, some women might not consult anyone about the decision and should be free to do that too.

[DURHAM D]

17. Over and over again Obama has said that we must consult.

I am sick of the arrogance of his position.

[Overseas]

33. I think he is trying to say women should be allowed to consult their own authorities

regarding what to do with their own bodies, rather than having decisions imposed upon them.

That is not arrogant to me. It is opening up the discussion to include faiths other than Christian, and even non-religious advice.

I think that's what people who talk consult consult consult are saying-- don't impose your fundamentalist religious values-- let people consult whoever they wish to.

Trying to break that logjam of having authority imposed by Christian legislation from on high.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. I appreciate your point. I disagree strongly the need for a "moral adviser"

The choice to abort might be made for purely selfish reasons. Who am I to judge? Should I insist the selfish person consult some "moral adviser"?

Choice is just that - choice. There should be no strings.

I see the 'moral adviser' part being either pure political pandering or a misguided attempt to demonstrate one's personal morality - both of which offend me.

That's not to say one should NOT consult a moral adviser if that's helpful to them. Just don't put it in the public debate. And when it is the president who uses the term and puts it in the public debate, that's tantamount to an endorsement.

[CTyankee]

25. It was important for Obama to point out that women have moral agency.

Just as men do. THAT was what Obama was establishing, in contrast to the notion that women are mindless, illogical children who don't know their own minds.

This "advisor" business is just gloss.

[niyad]

40. if women know their own minds, why would they need to consult a "moral advisor"?

[CTyankee]

41. They wouldn't or only for the same reason a man would.

counseling can be for men and women who may not be able to sort their thoughts well in a crisis pregnancy. These pregnancies are becoming more prevalent than we used to think. If it is difficult for pregnancies to continue on those sobjectory's information, then it is time to say "sayonara."

[OHDEM]

29. I totally see what you're saying.

Why is he going there? Is he just trying to defuse this hot button issue? Yeah, good luck with that, Mr. President!

I have no problem with giving women all the facts prior to an abortion ie risks associated and other options available, but then that seems like common sense. Shouldn't that be the case with ANY medical procedure? If a woman is conflicted and chooses to seek councel then that should be her choice and the gov't certainly shouldn't insert itself there.

I know when I've discusses abortion on other boards they ALWAYS bring up the idea of some sort of notification of the father. What?!? Difficult to get people to understand the GIANT can of worms that type of law opens.

[DrDan]

11. the R's have always been better than the D's at using words to evoke emotional responses

"pro-abortion"
"death tax"

They have even been successful at turning "liberal" into a bad thing.

[Towlie]

12. "Pro-Life" is equally deceptive and misleading. It falsely labels opponents as "pro-death".

And when you consider issues like the war, capital punishment, gun rights, and the environment, it's not hard to identify the real pro-death party.

[Occam Bandage]

13. ...

[spanone]

15. nor is anyone not 'pro-life'

he's quite the motherhumper

[Codeine]

18. I most certainly am.

A simple medical procedure that can save the future - perhaps even the life - of a young girl? What's not to be "pro-" about?

[Stinky The Clown]

20. You're confusing, I think, pro abortion and pro choice

No one wakes up and gleefully feels like getting an abortion for the hell of it.

Many people face making a decision to have one or not because of circumstances.

[Codeine]

22. I don't draw a distinction.

That's playing their semantic game, and I won't let them define the playing field for me. I wouldn't have a triple-bypass for shits and giggles either, but nobody worries about being "pro-bypass" or "anti-heart," now do they?

You're free to play their game and feel their shame. Not I.

[Stinky The Clown]

27. I'm not sure I get your point

Yes, I understand your words, their meaning, and your point of view.

I don't get your point.

I could take this as you seeing yourself as superior to the RW.

I could also take this as you seeing yourself superior to me, your (presumably) ally. If this is the case, you risk alienation for no clear point. I freely admit I could be wrong on this point, but don't think I am.

[Codeine]

32. I'm not being clear. My fault.

And I'm certainly not having an issue with you. Apologies if it seemed that way.

My point is that by trying to embrace the choice rather than the act we've bought into the notion that the act itself is somehow worthy of shame or criticism. It's a medical procedure that has no moral or ethical element unless we let the opposition frame it as such. When we talk about "not being pro-abortion" it feels to me as if we've acceped the idea that the abortion itself is bad.

I know that's not terribly clear either. I'm having some difficulty expressing myself today. :blush:

[Stinky The Clown]

34. Hahahaha

No problem at all. I was probably too sensitive and misread.

Pals? :hi:

[uppityperson]

19. The biggest regret of getting a hysterectomy is I can no longer get an abortion

tiny tear

[Codeine]

23. ...

:spray:

[JerseygirlCT]

24. Yup. nt

[Born_A_Truman]

26. I got robo-called the other night by Huckabee

I listened for a couple minutes for fun and one of the questions was "Are you pro-life?" I waited and waited for the option of "pro-choice" and it never happened, so I said "No". THAT'S how they frame things.

[crimsonblue]

28. I'm pro-abortion.

I think if a woman wants to have an abortion, then she should do it, no questions asked.

[Hugabear]

30. Abortion can be a perfectly viable option for birth control or population control

As long as it's not forced, and is 100% the woman's choice, then I'm all for it.

[onlyadream]

31. oh, but don'tcha know that all lubrals want your daughters

to have sex at a young age (the younger the better) and have abortions! I thought everyone knew that!
:sarcasm:

[PatSeg]

35. I am Pro Life AND Pro Choice

I have never been pro-abortion and I have a problem with Pro-lifers who are pro war and pro death penalty.

[REP]

36. I'm proudly Pro-Abortion for every woman who chooses it. I'm also Pro-By Pass when appropriate

For fuck's sake. I know a lot of people who are pro-abortion, pro-bypass, pro-root canal ... pretty much Pro all sorts of medical procedures.

[shadowknows69]

37. George Carlin actually said he was at a show I saw.

But this is George Carlin we're talking about. He was pretty much cheering on the end of civilzation in his act before he left us.

[and-justice-for-all]

38. Im not Pro-Abortion, I am Pro-Choice...there is a difference.

I want the women to have the choice to make that decision based on her situation and not my speculation. I want the women, to have a safe and clean place to go to if she makes that choice, one I could not ever understand as a male.

There are enough reasons for a women to have made that choice, that the option should be made available to her.

[niyad]

39. there are times, however, when I strongly favour retroactive contraception.