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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:12 PM
Original message
How do we stop another war?
All this talk about Iran has me very concerned and it is clear that this administration is getting desperate.

What did we learn from the failed attempt to stop the Iraq invasion that can be applied in this situation?

Is it even possible for us to stop another war?

When do you think people will have had enough?
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. I keep hoping dems would take their election "war chest$"....
and purchase air time during American Idol or Nascar. We need a full out campaign explaining to all Americans why dems need to investigate everything.

We need to get peolple outraged. We also have to let Bush and Cheney know they'll be trialed for war crimes.

If Hillary did this...maybe I wouldn't have to hold my nose when I'm forced to vote for her in '08.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Um, the public overwhelmingly supports congressional investigations.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Um, most of "the public" doesn't have a clue of what's going on.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Well that makes polling results absolutely *amazing* then.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. People here should know more than anyone else...polls mean nothing.
How many times do we "DU a poll"?

How many everyday non-political thinking people would even stop to answer a political poll?

I live in a "red" neighborhood. Most of my neighbors give Bush credit for us not being attacked again.

Americans need to be enlightened.

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. And exactly *how* will we know that Americans have been "enlightened"?
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. When they're mad enough to join us when we take to the streets.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. I don't see that happening
unless cable TV goes out nationwide.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. That's why we have to buy airtime during "hot" shows. ...n/t
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
55. very sad that they live in denial, or plain ole ignorance.
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guntard Donating Member (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. AIPAC war chest money buying ads against war with Iran?
How ironic.
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Don't waste your hope on them Kathy
It's clear they have no intentions to serve us either. Nancy pelosi removed a part of the recent emergency funding bill which would have required the Bush administration to confer with Congress before declaring war on Iran. I have no idea why she would say she is anti-war and complain about the Bush administration like she does and then give them the green light to wreck more havoc on the people of the world, in our name, with our money and using our military. They have proven time and time again to give little authority to our wishes - with a few exceptions (although not many).

The democrats have failed us - and it's about time we wake up and smell the rotting souls on the hill and start gettting a little more demanding. Threatening recalls - staging demonstrations outsde their houses. Whatever - support third parties - this two party farce we refer to as a democracy is a bunch of horse shit. How long before the people of this country realize this?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. I call bullshit.
Pelosi didn't think she could get the legislation through with that provision, so she took it out. But she has warned bushco not to attack Iran.

And I'm really, really fucking sick of hearing that the democrats have failed us when they've been in power for less than three months. As for supporting a third party at this time, well thank you for your "concern" and go read the DU rules.

Oh yeah, I feel well represented in the Congress by my 2 dems and one independent.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. We're trying to stop the war in Iraq yet we're allowing Bush to freely go into Iran?
It doesn't make sense.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Really, we're allowing bush to freely go into Iran?
When did that happen? I must have missed it. All I can say, is a lot of the doom and gloomers are gonna be sorely disappointed when we don't attack Iran.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. cali, I'm so glad you could promise me we're not going into Iran. Now I could sleep at night.
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I think concerned americans rather than doom and gloomers .
People who simply don't trust the bush administration , and why should anyone . After all that's happened and been allowed to go unchecked it is not quite so easy for people to suddenly pull hope out of their back pocket and show a sign of relief .

I rather doubt if anyone will be disappointed if Iran is not attacked .

Not everyone can feel secure putting all faith in any government saving their country ,not based on past results or recent results .

Certainly no one has a crystal ball however caution and doubt can be expressed .
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #29
51. It's not about trusting this administration.
Frankly, I think bushco is fucking insane. And I mean that literally, but I don't see it as probable that he'll attack Iran. Why? First of all, I'm not at all sure that the Pentagon would go along. Many in the military realize that an attack on Iran would be tantamount to sacrificing a greater number of troops in Iraq, and opening up a regional conflict that could consume the region. Some Generals have leaked this, and as I recall, said they'd resign before doing it. In addition, I do believe that bushco would be impeached and convicted in double time if he did this without a catastrophic event that can be directly tied to Iran, happening first.

Is it possible that he'll attack Iran? Sure. Is it probable? I don't think so. It's not going to be so easy, this time around.
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #51
61.  At this point what has bush got to lose ?
They continue to keep beating this war drum , what purpose does this serve ?

Also impeachment is not going to happen fast enough even if they did this attack , once it's done we are well past stopping this with impeachment , it will be too late .

Bush has to know due to all the hearings that he may face impeachment and now backed into a corner he may just do this to turn the attention away , which an attack will certainly do .

So with just this I am not convinced bush will not attack Iran . He knows the house is against him and he knows the people are against him . Since the congress removed the part of the bill allowing bush to bypass congress so he can do this attack all because AIPAC bellowed out , what is to stop him and also how long will it take to prove bush attacked Iran without proof positive there was a just cause for the attack ?
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Yes Cali
You must have missed it. http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=174804
There, now you are in the know!
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. It makes no sense whatsoever
But this is what kind of stuff has been going on and the mainstream media work for both parties and both parties work for the powers that be - whoever they are. It's becoming more ad more clear that NO ONE works for us! The people.
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. If Bush didn't like that provision
Then bush wouldn't get his money - we gave him everything and we got nothing. And Pelosi and friends are responsible.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Welcome to the DU Liz, ...I'm disapointed with Pelosi too.
I know what you mean about a third party. My only problem with a third party is that the winner could be elected with a 34% "approval rating".

I just wish we could thin out the herd and get rid of the hand full of corporate dems we have. To think we had to put pork like peanut something or other in our Iraq anti-funding bill.

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Stop voting for non-Democrats.
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Yeah - right
Quit voting for non- democrats - as we can see the democrats are so representing all of us with their so called proven anti-war stand - and their absolute determination to do NOTHING to benefit the people. They are at the bottom of the barrell with the republicans and propaganda like "you are wasting your vote by voting on the a third party" and "no other party has ever gotten anywhere near winning the election " all of that bullcrap talk is exactly why we are literrally withering away waiting for one or the other party (especially the dems who most of us who have a heart were supporters of) will come to our rescue - do our bidding - keep us in mind - THEY WON'T - THEY HAVEN't and THEY NEVER WILL! WAke the hell up AMERICA! THis is not a democracy this is the elite wealthy running our country telling us it is a democracy. They have always run our country and they have never done much of anything except toss us a bone here and there - to keep the crowds satiated - an given us a good economy to indulge our selves on - to keep us focused on our own gluttony - THIS IS PROPOSTEROUS that we can't see what is clearly true.

The blood in Iraq is spilling - and no democrats (with the exception of Kuchinich and a few others give a flying rat's ass about it - it's all talk - WATCH WHAT THEY DO AND NOT WHAT THEY SAY!
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Hm - concern. Hm - a bridge. Just not sure what to make of this.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Right. Democrats have never done anything good.
There is no such thing as Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid, or environmental protections. Al Gore is nothing but a blowhard. All democrats are worthless, blah, blah, blah. Maybe you could find a more compatible site for your views.
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
38.  1936
Was when the Social Security Act was signed into law. The democrats usually run on what the people will favor and sometimes they keep their word and sometimes they don't - and sometimes they do and over the years it gets degraded into something that doesn't benefit us.

The fact that the country was in a depression then, many were jobless and the great dust bowl was taking it's tool - Maybe back then we had a few democratic politicians worth a crap. I also happen to appreciate Jimmy Carter - and I can't think of one republican I appreciate...but nonetheless. that was back in 1936 - and medicade and medicare soon became part of the social security tax - It is a whole new reason to levy tax on people and if you haven't noticed it is the second highest paid tax after your federal income tax.

At the same time, Congress passed legislation which amended the Federal Reserve act from 1913 - thus transferring all power of the government to a foreign bank which collects and lends our tax money - although it was created by congress - the united states has little to no say in our own interest rates and the value of the US dollar. These private banks (called member banks) all incorporated - which the us owns and is not allowed to own ANY STOCK in - So that was a few steps back

Whatever, as I said, there are a few good politicians - but they don't last long in the shark tank - but Pelosi i not one of them. She is not alon either - there are plenty more democrats gone bad where she came from.

You may think I am here to disrupt your love for the democrats and I am not - I am here because I care about the situation our country is in and I can see clearly that the democrats are not in the same mind frame as the people. We want the war to stop NOW - It's easy for them to do with a simple majority - DON'T FUND IT! The troops will be home in no time. Yet they did what we didn't want them to do and meanwhile back in Iraq - the blood is spilling and the innocent are dieing and the torture continues and the rest of the world grows more and more resentful of the American people for not forcing them to do what we want them to do. We seem indifferent and uncaring and there are plenty of us that are in fact indifferent and uncaring. As long as their little worlds are not effected - they don't get off their asses to do anything.

We americans have a heapin load of issues and obstacles in front of us - from the voting system problems, to the corruption, to the treason, to the wars to the torture policies to the media monopolies - to the corrupt corporate interests - the AIPAC influence - the munition investors in the top seats of our governments - the lies - campaign finance issues - I mean where in the hell does it stop? But it is essential that we no longer stand for any more excuses - or delays. The needless killing MUST STOP Now - not next week - not next year - not after we invade Iran but right now. The Iraqis want us out and ever leader (whether an elected official or just a voice for the people ) have made that perfectly clear. Yet we are still there building billion dollar embassies - when we have a city right here at home which is devistatedand kids with no schools to go to - and displace people - unable to reunite with their loved ones - and no accountability for an entire city drowning and then burning and all those left behind suffering immensly - What we are doing in Iraq is symptomatic of what is going on right here at home. These democrats need to shape the hell up. It is a hell of a lot easier for all of us when we have representation in washington - it feels very much like we don't. Why haven't they addressed the issue with the media yet? Why haven't they impeached the president and his croonies yet? Why haven't they stopped the war yet? A simple majority gives you plenty of power to do a lot of things and they have passed no legislation worth a crap that has been signed into law - and there are all sorts of tactics that they could have and didn't use to get these bills threw - what are they doing in our chambers of congress let me tell you

They are giving out gold medals of honor to th elite wealthy doctors and dead holy lawyers
They are redisgnating post offices to be named after their wealthy friends and historical figures
They are making months of a calender year dedicated to direct deposit month - why is a senator concerne with our banking preferences? Well how in the hell should I know - I'm not the one having my staffers write legislation inspiring everyone sign upfor direct deposit and worrying about everyone's banking preferences when wwiii is about to break out nd we are in the middle of two wars - now am I?
They are writing all sorts of non - binding resolutions to express their thoughts on something - Whooopie - that really helps!
They are honoring miss america pagents and each other
They are naming parks
They are supporting new hurricaine museums in FREAKIN New orleans - and like that isn't the LAST Thing those people need - a freain hurricain museum - they have no freakin schoos but here is a nice museum so the unemployed, uneducated and the homeless have something to do during the day. COME ON - Let's get real - here people.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. And your solution is what?
:shrug:
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Solution?
Don't we all wish someone had one. My suggestion is that until we see it for what it is, there won't be the possibility of any changes. As long as we are all sitting around counting on them to do something - then we aren't going to have an effect at all - at least if we recognize that they need to be motivated by more forceful electorate - maybe then we will have a voice in Washington -

Write the legislation ourselves - or the gist of it - get a dem to sponsor it and threaten the rest of them with recall petititions until they support it....just one thought -

harrass them by setting upcamp outside their home offices and residents - like code pink did with pelosi -

Write a platform and then find good possible candidates to run on it - 3rd party or new democrats of a new order. I don't know - but I know one thing for sure - these guys are not going to do anything UNLESS WE MAKE THEM.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. So Democrats and Publicans are all bad, is that it?
Edited on Mon Apr-02-07 03:03 AM by Lasher
Seems like you're saying there is not really that much difference between Democrats and Publicans. I get the same argument a lot from a friend of mine who says he is a libertarian.

What would your brave new political party be called? Libertarians, maybe? I heard a guy named Ralph Nader tried to start up a third party. Maybe you could get pointers from him about how that turned out.
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. So you suggest
We do the same thing as we have been doing - what happens when you do that? You get the same results.

Actually, I am a registered Democrat and have voted that way and never voted third party before. I think we need to get tough on the dems or maybe call them the Progressive Democrats - I don't know. I don't know what to do - all I know is that the dems aren't looking like they are doing much for us right now. Can you deny that?
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. Aloha,
I think we've been a little bit lazy, expecting the electeds to do for us. Under recent circumstances they could do nothing, things just changed recently. But they are counting on us to do the organizing, the community building. That is the responsibility that comes with being a citizen. When it was Clinton's second term, we could just bitch and moan. We are way past that now. My .02
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. The Democrats
Should not be counting on it's base - we did our work to get them elected. It's their turn now.

However, I do agree that citizens need to do more and one of the things they need to do is face the truth. Give it a good, long, hard, look and square in the eye. Then we need to make politicians listen to what we want. They usually don't do that.

I am sorry but I see traitors and liars when I see the shill hill. Traitors and liars - NOne of them concerned with what we the people want. We have marched, we have petititioned, we have voted and we continue to have our voices heard but we are speaking to a bunch of deaf people - they hear what they want - No more excuses. the blood is spilling - It's barbaric that we all are so "alright" with this crap.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. Yes, I challenge your assertion that Democrats aren't doing much for us
We just took control of Congress. That's good. Maybe if we keep doing the same things we will take more Congressional seats and the presidency in 2008.

Your main complaint seems to be that Democrats, who have only had a slim majority in Congress for 3 months, have not cut off funding to force an immediate pullout from Iraq. That is not what most Americans want. A majority favors an orderly withdrawal over a period of a year or so. Reliable poll results make this clear. Legislation to approximate this goal is what we have produced.

You might see that as pandering to what people want but that's the way it's supposed to work in a society that's governed by majority rule. It's not a perfect arrangement but a better alternative does not exist.
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. Political war games
"Maybe if we keep doing the same things we will take more Congressional seats and the presidency in 2008."

-the thing that disgusts me the most about these politicians as they are worried about their own electability and are willing to allow untold numbers of more innocent people die, be tortured and the like and all so they can get more seats and what have you? Where are these morals and these anti-war democrats.

" Legislation to approximate this goal is what we have produced"
What we have produced was a gross emergency funding for a war that no one wants and no one can afford - either with their lives or this financial debt. We are allowing the war that is endangering the American people's lives by creating enemies by the second; we are allowing this to be done in our name with our military and our money - and we have set no withdrawl date - approximate is laughable. We are building a billion dollar embassy - Pelosi gave them the right to attack Iran without congressional approval - There is no withdrawl date - it's all a big fat bogus lie meant to keep people either faithful to the republicans or the democrats - while they keep this racket up and suck every last ounce of oil, money and blood from it....it's disgusting and it's totally inhumane.

The ISG reported that EVERY LEADER - whether elected politician or voice for the people (and that includes the various shia leaders whom everyone keeps saying needs us to stay so they won't be slaughtered) WANTS US OUT NOW! They make no bones about it....the iraqi military -t he Iraqi police - everyone who speaks for anyone in Iraq wants us out - so what in the hell are we still doing there? Can anyone please tell me why in the hell would anyone who is against this war want some slow bleed - drawn out withdrawl they call orderly in the middle of chaotic, unecessary bloodshed and sectarian violence that we instigated and continue to complicate? What in the hell is this orderly withdrawl crap anyway? Who wants it? Why would they want it? Are the Iraqi people unable to speak for themselves. The American profiteers on the hill keep insisting that they want the Iraqis to start taking responsibility for themselves and claiming that they refuse to do it and here they are full on saying - get the hell out of our country already - and we are telling them no no you are not ready. WHAT IN THE HELL DOES EVERYONE THINK IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE. Do you think the democrats don't see what is wrong with this picture - they are our leaders and they can't see it - The republicans waged this war for a few reasons - mostly their own profit and their own little neo-con agenda - but since then plenty of democrats have jumped in on the pork barrell and more have played politics while the goddamned blood is spilling and now they are going to feed us this crap. NO - they want us out - you want them to take responsibility - what a better way to start by allowing them to take responsibility and make their own decisions. You guys can buy this load of crap all you want but I am not. People have got to start looking at it for what it is - and this is not some game - this is war - death, destruction - bloodspill - sickness from the spirit to the soul and it's got to stop NOW! And we play politics...disgusting!
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. Like you said upthread, you don't know what to do.
Edited on Mon Apr-02-07 10:29 AM by Lasher
I am reluctant to speak for others but I believe most Americans do not favor an immediate pullout from Iraq is because we fear millions more Iraqis, and perhaps others in the region, will die as a result. It's a distasteful reality to face, but we Americans, collectively, actually did start this unnecessary war. So it is incumbent on us to at least make an effort to minimize the damage as we withdraw.

I mostly agree with the sentiments of your rambling reply, except that I believe it is counterproductive to be so critical of Congressional Democrats, who offer our very best real hope of getting us out of the mess in Iraq within the next 2 years.

There is a key point I had hoped to convey to you in my previous reply. Forgive me for being repetitive, but your desire for an immediate pullout is not shared by a majority of Americans. You don't get to dictate terms to the rest of us. If you want an immediate withdrawal, do what you can to convince more people that this is best. But please, don't condemn the only people who are actually doing something that offers any real hope of getting us out. In doing so you are helping those who want to keep our soldiers in Iraq forever. Sometimes good intentions are useful only for pavement.

The early AFL/CIO had a simple political philosophy: Reward your friends and punish your enemies. I wish you and others would make more of an effort to recognize the distinction between the two.

Peace. It's still a good idea. :hippie:
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. I wish I thought they were my friends
And I wish I thought they really believed in peace too. If so many of them weren't making big bucks on this war, I might believe it. I just don't.

Sorry to hear that so many americans have no intentions of respecting the Iraqi people's wish. They believe that our continued involvement is only making things worse. They believe that an immediate pullout is what is best for them. They have conveyed that numerous times and nobody hears them. I'm also sorry to reiterate. I'm not dictating anything - I am simply conveying my thoughts and the reasons why this whole things is ridiculous and murderous in my eyes.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. Pray for peace (EOM)
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. I admire your passion...I think it's only right to hold ALL politicians accountable.
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. Thanks Just-plain-Kathy
And thank you for the warm welcome. I have been getting very few of those. All I know is that I won't give up my values and my beliefs to stay affiliated with a party who no longer seems to represent them.

Meanwhile back in Iraq....the blood keeps spilling. That is what I am saying...And all the other people only hear anti-democrat. It's nice to know someone has the ability to stay alligned with their values and keeps their eyes open and their beliefs protected by lending their support where their support deserves to be lended.

It's taken quite a while for me to see the truth and it sucks. I have no third party in mind - I don't even know where to begin....This is an American people issue - It's so not about the democrats versus the republicans - People are dying and I refuse to play politics - I want the shit to stop - NOW - Find me someone who will stop it and I will vote for them.

Thanks for being someone here that I can relate to. I feel pretty alone even amongst so many so-called anti war activists - we are all supposed to be on the same side - but unless your a supporter of the democrats who aren't doing anything to stop this war either (the only they have going is they didn't wage it to begin with but they are quickly losing big points by not stopping it either) I guess this is not the place to come if stopping the bloodshed is at the top of your list, eh?
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #46
56. We're Americans first, then Democrats...
:pals:
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Although I may agree with you on some points
Idealism can't trump reality and voting third party -- and what VIABLE candidates are there for president? Is Nader running again? -- is a wasted vote. You might as well stay home or vote Republican, not that I would advocate doing either.
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
4.  I am concerned too.
First I don't know if the people have any control at all other than to protest .

It's up to this government and so far they have had some investigations but have put impeachment off the table and have allowed to date to let bush attack Iran without going through congress .

This threat of attacking Iran still seems to be building up and the admin being backed into a corner does make them unpredictable .

I feel if people really have had enough then many more would be out in protest , at least if they were serious enough .

I don't feel confident enough in the government stopping another war , I say this because even the Dems knew this Iraq attack was coming and few spoke up and nothing was done to stop it and many more people were out there in many countries protesting this horror .

I do feel this is something to be very concerned about even though some on this forum feel it's a bluff at best , maybe it is but this is a big risk to take by not taking this serious . At least I think so .
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. YES! YES ! andYES!
Thank you for thinking ! THank you for looking at the situation and the truth and thank you for saying so!
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
30. Protests didn't stop the Iraq invasion,
and most congressmen turned a deaf ear to our many phone calls and ignored the letters and emails we sent. (When I say "we", I'm not referring just to DU but to all anti-war protestors.)

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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
32.  You are right , they didn't stop the attack .
And the Dems had the had the majority in the senate in 2003 .
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. Don't start one. - n/t
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Cobalt-60 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. We need to let it be understood
That no matter what these *assholes pull the new Iran war will be over the day Bush is gone from office.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
12. Americans should be forced to realized that Bush told us he was planning to go into
Iran back in 2002. It was all part of his going after the "Axis of Evil".

We have to show Americans that Bush simply pays off the only non-oil producing member of the axis of evil (North Korea), yet still wants to spread out his war in the Middle East.

People aren't putting two and two together.

Peace will come when all Americans learn about PNAC.

Everyone will turn on Bush and Cheney if they're both brought up on war crimes.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. Tell Iran to release the soldiers
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
23. Defund the war machine.
If the politicians and generals don't have the toys to play - they can't.
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lizbitchwitchy Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Exactly - Divestment
And the blood just keeps spilling in Iraq.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
28. call and write your senators and representatives
Tell them that this country has no stomach for expanding the war.

It might not help, but it can't hurt. Our leaders need to know that war with Iran is not acceptable, and that our troops need to be out of Iraq ASAP.

If they hear from enough people our leaders might actually start doing some leading-- in the right direction.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
33. I hate to inform you of this fact but,...we can't stop it.
The Democrats can't stop the neocons from inciting this world war to come.

However, we and the rest of the world are on top of this authoritarian regime.

I just hope that 'the people' retaliate against further oppression and that 'the people' will STARVE THE CORPORATE BEASTS.

I hope.
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CarolNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
41. I don't know if it can be done...
but Wes Clark has been trying his best to do what he can to stop it for some time now and he and VoteVets.org have put together a site to help the rest of us do whatever little we can.

www.stopiranwar.com has a petition and tools to help you write your Congresspeople and media, etc. Jon Soltz of VoteVets says if the petition gets enough names and the site enough action where they can attract some money, they will be able to make those hard hitting VoteVets ads that we've come to know and love, this time against attacking Iran. We have to at least try to make our voices heard now, before it's too late to stop it...if it isn't already.

It is really scary, though, isn't it?
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #41
58. Thanks for the link
I am hoping that enough people are waking up and speaking out not to let it happen again. I think people were still too numb and afraid after 9/11 to be effective. I hope people, especially those in power, to do what's right, no matter the consequences to their careers.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
43. K&R
This is the approach we should be taking - not "here it comes, let's plan on what will happen!" I actually think a lot of people here on DU WANT war with Iran. That's certainly the way they sound.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 04:19 AM
Response to Original message
47. A couple of practical tools...
One is that, having marched and experienced the good feelings and sense of community that came from them, that this time we have to forget about going home. We must march and stay put, occupy something.

http://www.aforcemorepowerful.org/ "when people decide they want to be free, nothing can stop them" If you want to see the movie, pm me. The book is valuable too, reflecting situations around the world in which people threw off tyranny. Chileans kicked out Pinochet, Dutch defeated the Nazis, Mujer Desaparacidos in Argentina, all over the world. It can be done, has been done, we can do it too. http://www.thepeacecompany.com/store/prod_audio_aforcemorepowerful.php

This website is extremely helpful, and has free downloads in many languages. The Albert Einstein institution is a resource for peace for communities all over the world. The works of Gene Sharp have been translated into so many languages and used to resist tyrants all over the world, and now we need it in our own home. 198 Methods of Nonviolent Action, go to the publications page, then to downloads.
http://www.aeinstein.org/organizationsa4f8.html

The blurb:
"The Albert Einstein Institution is a nonprofit organization advancing the study and use of strategic nonviolent action in conflicts throughout the world.

We are committed to the defense of freedom, democracy, and the reduction of political violence through the use of nonviolent action.

Our goals are to understand the dynamics of nonviolent action in conflicts, to explore its policy potential, and to communicate this through print and other media, translations, conferences, consultations, and workshops."

The downloads are free and safe. You can print them at Kinkos )or better, a union print shop) and distribute for just the printing cost to those in your community who can help you create change.

What follows is copied from the publications page. I urge anyone who is really asking how to organize to check it out.
Another good resource is "Organizing for Social Change" which you can buy at Powell's. http://www.midwestacademy.com/academy_manual.html



Publications > Downloads

Downloads


IMPORTANT NOTE: We have many translated publications for free download. They are not listed on this page. To find translations for download, please visit the Translations section of our web site or click on one of the following languages: Arabic, Azeri, Belarusian, Burmese, Burma (Chin), Burma (Jing-paw), Burma (Karen), Burma (Mon), Chinese (Mandarin), Dutch, English, Estonian, Farsi, French, German, Hebrew, Indonesian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Kyrgyz, Latvian, Lithuanian, Macedonian, Norwegian, Portuguese, Russian, Serbian, Spanish, Thai, Tibetan, Ukrainian




On Strategic Nonviolent Conflict: Thinking About the Fundamentals
by Robert Helvey

On Strategic Nonviolent Conflict delves into the question of how to build a strategy for nonviolent struggle. Covering a variety of topics--such as ways to identify a movement's objectives, preparing a strategic estimate for a nonviolent struggle, and operational planning considerations--this publication contains insights on the similarities between military and nonviolent strategy. It represents a major new contribution to this field of study. Additional topics covered in the book include psychological operations and propaganda, contaminants that may affect the efficiency of a nonviolent movement, and providing consultations and training for members of movements and organizations. For more information click here. 178 pp. 2004

You may order or download this publication.

Languages available: English

Download PDF file




There Are Realistic Alternatives
by Gene Sharp

There Are Realistic Alternatives is a short, serious introduction to nonviolent struggle, its applications, and strategic thinking. Based on pragmatic arguments, this piece presents nonviolent struggle as a realistic alternative to war and other violence in acute conflicts. It also contains a glossary of important terms and recommendations for further reading. For more information click here. 54 pp. 2003

You may order or download this publication.

Languages available: English, Arabic

Download PDF file




From Dictatorship to Democracy
by Gene Sharp

From Dictatorship to Democracy is a serious introduction to the use of nonviolent action to topple dictatorships. Originally published in 1993 in Thailand for distribution among Burmese dissidents, this booklet has since been translated into seventeen different languages and spread worldwide. This is the third US edition. For more information click here. 88 pp. 2003

You may order or download this publication.

Languages available: Arabic, Azeri, Belarusian, Burmese, Chin (Burma), Jing-paw (Burma), Karen (Burma), Mon (Burma), Chinese (Simplified Mandarin), Chinese (Traditional Mandarin), English, Farsi, Indonesian, Khmer (Cambodia), Kyrgyz, Russian, Serbian, Spanish, Ukrainian, Tibetan, Tigrigna, Vietnamese

Download PDF file




The Anti-Coup
by Gene Sharp and Bruce Jenkins

As coups are one of the primary ways through which dictatorships are installed, this piece details measures that civilians, civil society, and governments can take to prevent and block coups d'état and executive usurpations. It also contains specific legislative steps and other measures that governments and non-governmental institutions can follow to prepare for anti-coup resistance. For more information click here. 64 pp. 2003

You may order or download this publication.

Languages available: English

Download PDF file




The Role of Power in Nonviolent Struggle
Einstein Institution Monograph Series #3
by Gene Sharp

"Nonviolent action . . . is capable of wielding great power even against ruthless rulers and military regimes," writes Sharp, "because it attacks the most vulnerable characteristic of all hierarchical institutions and governments: dependence on the governed." Abstracted from Sharp's classic three-volume work, The Politics of Nonviolent Action, this monograph summarizes the core concepts behind the technique of nonviolent struggle. For more information click here. 19 pp. 1990, 1994

You may order or download this publication.

Languages available: English, Arabic, Burmese, Russian, Spanish

Download PDF file




Self-Reliant Defense without Bankruptcy or War
by Gene Sharp

In this booklet, Sharp discusses the potential of civilian-based defense for the Baltics, East Central Europe, and members of the Commonwealth of Independent States. For more information click here. 72 pp. 1992

You may order or download this publication.

Languages available: English, Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Macedonian

Download PDF file




National Security Through Civilian-based Defense
by Gene Sharp

This publication offers an introduction to civilian-based defense. It also identifies significant research areas and policy studies that are relevant to advancing the field. For more information click here. 93 pp. 1985

You may order or download this publication.

Languages available: English

Download PDF file




Making the Abolition of War a Realistic Goal
by Gene Sharp

This popular essay, first published in 1980, provides a brief introduction to civilian-based defense, a policy in which civilians are prepared to use nonviolent resistance as a means of national defense. Previously published by the World Policy Institute. For more information click here. 14 pp. 1980, 1990

You may order or download this publication.

Languages available: English, Dutch, French, Japanese

Download PDF file




198 Methods of Nonviolent Action

Practitioners of nonviolent struggle have an entire arsenal of "nonviolent weapons" at their disposal. Listed are 198 of them, classified into three broad categories: nonviolent protest and persuasion, noncooperation (social, economic, and political), and nonviolent intervention.

Languages available: English

Download PDF file




Correcting Common Misconceptions About Nonviolent Struggle

A handout sheet addressing common misconceptions about nonviolent action and answering some frequently asked questions.

Languages available: English

Download PDF file

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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #47
63. Thanks for all of the links and suggestions
I'll take a look and hope others will as well
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. My joy. Hope someone does, the tools are there. No need to reinvent the wheel.
But I am sorry to say I think we may have need for The Anti-Coup.

Basic point is, removing support. Not to be repetitive but if you pm me your address I'll send you a copy of the DVD A Force More powerful. Good luck, we all need it! Aloha..
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 04:33 AM
Response to Original message
49. Impeach Chucklenuts Bush
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #49
60. That won't help
Theirs still Cheney and Rummy (yes he still DOES have an office in the Pentagon) and the PNAC crowd have a firm control over the White house and Pentagon in 100's of other ways.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-03-07 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #60
66. Impeaching Bush would show the world that we don't aprove of his actions.
Then we have to deal with Cheney and Rummy. Or should I say, Cheney gets dealt with first, this way he's not ever president..not for a second.
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IA_Seth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
59. http://www.stopiranwar.com/
Sign it, and pass it along!
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-02-07 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
65. We have to stop paying for it.
n/t
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