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Who would Jesus Torture?

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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:04 AM
Original message
Who would Jesus Torture?
This is an excellent email written by the candidate that SHOULD have been able to beat Ralph Hall--if we lived in a world where good always wins over evil. However, as we do not, we can just try again next election cycle, IF Glenn is willing.
His opinion deserves a post. Even if I am the only one to appreciate it.:)

Never in my wildest dreams did I ever imagine writing the following essay. The Republican party, however, has become the defenders of torture. It’s up to us to defend our values.



Proud American,

Glenn



My oldest son will enter the US Army in June. In all likelihood he will go overseas with thousands of our brave men and women. If captured by the enemy, do I want him water boarded? Do I want his captors to strip him naked, to throw freezing water on him, to slap his face or to slam him repeatedly against a wall?



When I think about torture, I’m reminded of the story told in almost every Roman Catholic Church. Hanging on the walls are the Stations of the Cross. They tell how the Romans tortured and then murdered Jesus.



Who would Jesus torture? No one. Torture is wrong. It clearly violates the Golden Rule: “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets” (Matthew 7:12).



Torture is also un-American. President Barack Obama was right to let the American people see the torture memos. Now it’s time for him to appoint a Special Prosecutor to conduct a nonpartisan investigation. Here’s why.



Our founding fathers rejected torture, and so should we. They specifically wrote two amendments to our Constitution to prevent it—the Fifth and Eighth Amendments. These Amendments outlawed torture.



The Fifth Amendments says, “No person . . . shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself.” In the Eighteenth Century European monarchies routinely “compelled,” or tortured, suspected criminals. The founders of our Republic wanted America to be different. They recognized the fact that government officials are not infallible. They make mistakes. Torturing an individual to gain information is wrong.



The Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution says, no “cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.” Torture is both cruel and unusual. It is cruel and unusual to strip a person and put them in a box. It is cruel and unusual to strap a person to a board, invert the board, place a rag in the person’s mouth and then pour water down his throat. Our founders rejected this barbaric conduct.



In 1882 the United States signed the Geneva Conventions and committed itself to the humane treatment of prisoners captured in war. As a treaty, the Geneva Conventions are the “supreme law of the land,” and the President must obey it (US Constitution, article VI, paragraph 2). Article Three of the Conventions clearly states that parties to the treaty may not torture detainees and must treat detainees humanely. Can anyone say with a straight face that the CIA treated detainees “humanely?”



Torturing Al Qaida members also threatens our national security. The torture sessions produced unreliable information. Tortured prisons simply made up information to end the physical pain and sent our intelligence officials on wild goose chases. The most useful information came by treating the captives humanely. They had been told that Americans were barbaric. When they discovered the truth, they opened up and betrayed their cause.



We can’t move forward without accountability. The Bush Administration tried to sweep this information under the rug. President Bush himself repeatedly lied to the American people, saying his administration did not torture. Thanks to President Obama we know the truth.



The only way to prevent future offenses against our values and our laws is to hold the architects of torture accountable. We must do to ourselves what we would do to others. After World War Two the United States prosecuted Japanese leaders for water boarding Americans. President Obama must appoint a Special Prosecutor to investigate and charge those responsible for this potential crime. To ignore his duty as President would be wrong.



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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Commenting on your title only...
Who would Jesus torture? Well, according to scripture, everyone who didn't believe in Him. That's who.

No, thanks.
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Towlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. But Jesus said those things before he was tortured himself. Now he knows what it feels like.
:rofl:
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. No he wouldn't.
He'd just direct St Peter to have them rendered to Hell, and have Satan do the torturing. That way he keeps his hands clean.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Yeah, and St. Peter and Satan would just be
"following orders."
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. I'm a critic of religion, ask the DU faithers
But you are very incorrect. I note you cite no 'scripture'. The fact is that Jesus said many who 'believe in him' will not be known to him at all in the end, for he will only know those who treated him well-for he said the tretment of the least among us is equal to treatment of him. So the belivers will say 'Howdy Lord' and he'll say 'who are you?
The list of who is least among us, according to Jesus in 'scripture' includes prisoners, regardless of their guilt or innocence. He said he IS the prisoner, the poor, the sick, and so on. Beliveing, according to Jesus, is for naught. How you treat the least among us it the whole of the law.
Now the chruches teach differently. But Jesus taught to treat each individual as if that person was God in flesh, and he made that the only bar of judgement that he personally set. According to 'scripture' that is, not according to Rick Warren.
The only people the scriptural Jesus gave a promise of entrance to 'paradise' were the two theives crucified with him. He said they'd go there that very day, with him. Those two did not know who he was, much less have any faith in him. They were dying and he was another tortured criminal making insane promises. Jesus gave no such promise to even his own 12 ardents. Only to the theives.
So while you speak true of the American churches, by and large, they are not getting what they taught you from the 'scriptural Jesus', who said mistreat a prisoner and you are forever a stranger to him. Belive all you want, but mistreat the poor, he will not be in your corner.
The cruel and inhuman are said to be headed for destruction on a soul basis, that is, their life will truly end, in soul as well as body.
Many here will be shocked to see me saying this, but the truth is the truth, and non truth is of no worth to anyone.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. I understand where you're coming from with that,
but that's a minority view among Christians. I didn't quote scripture because I don't normally do that online.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. You did not post about what the majority of christianist do
You stated that Jesus said he would torture all who did not believe in him. What is written and what is not written in scriptures is not the same thing as what the apostate churches might teach. You said 'according to scripture' Jesus would torture every one who did not believe in him. You did not say what you are now claimng to have said. My very reply to you makes full note that the majority of self labeled christians reject the teachings of Jesus on many levels. I said this is what Jesus is said to have taught, although it is not what Rick Warren teaches.
You made a claim about the scriptural words of the teacher Jesus that was false in the extreme. Sorry, but it is. False.
Suddenly you pretend to be talking about the Christian minorities and majorities, but your first post is still there for all to read.
Honest brokers rule.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. As you please.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. thank you for this-
you speak about the Jesus i follow- and i'm not alone.

:grouphug:
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. No you're not. So many people are quick to bash!!
It's like they get off on it. It gets rather old.
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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. I have that question as a bumper sticker
I got it for the benefit of my RW fundie family members.
Shuts 'em right up!
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. If I was Jesus, I'd start with Judas
then move on to Salome, Herod and a few choice Romans. :sarcasm:
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. Jesus wouldn't torture anyone.
His followers are a different story.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I beg to differ.
If you don't believe that Jesus is the Savior, you get to go to hell and be tortured for eternity. Isn't that how it goes?

As I said above, no, thanks to that.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Jesus didn't say that his followers should actively carry out that judgment.
Edited on Fri Apr-24-09 09:56 AM by baldguy
When they do, they literally take the mantel of God upon themselves - which is a sin any way you cut it.

You'd think that the first people Jesus would want tortured are the people that tortured & killed him. Instead Jesus' first words when the Roman soldiers began crucifying him were "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. The question was: Who would Jesus Torture?
I answered that question. Non-believers go to Hell, where they suffer for eternity for not believing. It's simple. That's what most Christians believe. Make of it what you will.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. well, if someone doesn't believe in Jesus- and he is not their saviour-
what effect would his "hell" have on them?

Hell is a concept that really only applies to those who believe.


:hi:
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Right you are. I'm an atheist, so none of that stuff affects me.
I was commenting, based on what Christians believe.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Then why didn't he condemn the Roman soldiers when he had the chance?
The question was: "Who would Jesus Torture?" not "Who would Christians torture?" I think we can agree that these are two very different questions, right?

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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Most Christians believeing something
does not mean Jesus said it in scripture. You answered the question 'who would the majority of christians torture'. Different question.
I note upthread that you are all into 'St Peter' at the gates, which is a teaching that is not Scriptural in any way. It is a demoninational teaching that many 'Christians' see as heretical.
Blanket statements filled with falsehood do not help us reach a place of communications. This tread asks good questions about a serious issue, and you wish to make that into a snipe at relgious folks, based not on anything but stuff in your mind. Torture vs your issues aroud religion, which is really important?
What kind of a person sees a thread about the spritial death that is torture and rushes in to play enlightened atheist? Really. Even if you see Christ as a fictional character, what he 'said' and did not say is on record. Just as Hamlet says somethings, but not others. Never was a Hamlet. Stil the words of Hamlet can not be expanded to suit an argument, for the literature stands as record. The important thing in this thread is that those who claim the faith of Jesus come to gripes with what that teacher said about prisoners and torure. For if they are his followers, they have no real choice but to stand with the Waterboraded Christ. Arguments like yours give them more falsehood to hide behind. The fact is, torture is and always was far outside of the teachings of Christ.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
22. I agree
No where in the bible does Jesus torture anyone. Jesus clearly believe God was coming down to Earth to rule in a God lead kingdom and God himself would be judging you. Jesus thus had no need for torture. A persons own actions would lead them to their own fate.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
9. Who would he torture?
Cheney ~~ you know: An eye for an eye...
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47of74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
10. WWJWB?
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Lint Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. Jesus was tortured.
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