Ok so what happens when 2012 comes and goes and the millenarian

[nadinbrzezinski]

predictions don't come to be?

I mean seriously, we have seen this shit before...

year 1000

and yep, after 1492... something 'bout Murica not being in anybody's map...

Fer the moment, watching the his... er millenarian channel right now going... so what happens when december 12 comes and goes?

And yes, we are planning to have an end of the world party... after all, why not? Millenarian thought has its danger and must be fun off

[G_j]

1. I hate Mondays

x(

[comtec]

57. I could never get the handle of Thursdays

Or was it Tuesdays?
Oh look a vorgon *BOOM*

[seemslikeadream]

2. Well first of all some say it's December 21, then there's folks who say it won't be one day

it will be a process which we already have begun. Did you know that everything changes every 26,000 years?

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. The galactic calendar, I know

still

The next magical date is the years either 2032 or 2034... for the same reasons

And yes, today they made a critical mistake... the Jewish Calendar still has 2000 or so years to go

We are not even close to 7000

[seemslikeadream]

5. (*_*)

[ZombieHorde]

22. "everything changes every 26,000 years"

This statement contradicts itself.

[old mark]

58. ...and even if it did, who would fucking know?

You are right - the contradiction is actually pretty funny.
Everything changes every 26,000 years - just like clockwork!


mark

[The Straight Story]

4. It is supposed to come and go without anything happening, here is why

In the end times there is supposed to be a great falling away of people from the church and faith. That won't happen until the things people keep saying will happen don't. Faith has to be broken in order for the prophecy to come true.

2012 is a construct created to wear down the faithful when it fails and lead people astray.

Bad things will happen before then, which will help facilitate all this - people will be sure the end is coming, it won't, but the events that do happen will empower those in power already to gain more control. Faith will fall, and freedom for many will as well.

The real end will come later, and many will fall to the great deception because the church has become corrupt and abandoned it's core principles.

[seemslikeadream]

8. (*_*)

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Here is a funny story for you

on the way to visit parents I was watching Religiolous... on the IPOD, besides me was this guy readying the Prophecies in everybody's favorite book. I guess he got interested in what I was watching in the privacy of my Pod and headphones and decided to call me on it.

Funny, I said, so you believe the end of days as stated in the book of Revelations are coming

Of course the signs are here.

You of course know the book of revelations is repeating both Daniel, Isaiah and a couple others?

Dumbounded look... no they cannot, there is nothing in the new testament that comes from the old one

Ok, that is news to any scholar of the new testament... now when you are in Mexico it is holy week, do enjoy your stay.

He said, why?

You are much a heathen to Catholics as I am...

You are an unbeliever

Of course, between being born Jewish and not believing in the fairy tails of Mithra... and others... now you got a King James Bible, after you are done readying revelations, please do turn over to Daniel.

You have not read this....

Oh yes I have... care to discuss the parallels? Perhaps after you bother readying the other half...

He was stewing... mind you I would not have given a flying rats ass, but he decided to tell me why that movie was wrong and why I was about to burn in hell... people like that irk me... quite a bit...

[The Straight Story]

14. My fundie sister still amazes me

With her ignorance of the OT and the things you mentioned. Like I said, the church has become crap over the decades.

These same people will bitch about buddhism, american indian faiths, and not see how some issues are completely intertwined. They cling to a few verses here and there and that is about it. They don't look through to the 'Governing Dynamics' (to steal from John Nash and A Beautiful mind, another favorite movie of mine other than The Straight Story).

They have faith, I will give them that, but they are basing that faith on something bound and determined to fail them often (not always, don't want to use such a broad brush).

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. I know it is amazing

personally after I found out when it was probably written, I will have to get a map of the seventh century BCE and re-read both Genesis and Exodus and how it relates to the period politics

[The Straight Story]

18. If you get really bored some night (like I did)

Read genesis and start at year 0 and make note of who came what year and what happened during that year :)

Noah is interesting when you do that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Of course it is... in fiction, stricktly, imagine this

Ba'al is an alien human hybrid, or just the alien using humans to hybrize the species

Abraham living 900 years makes all kinds of sense in that scenario

Damn Tal, they are capable of living (in one way) thousands of years

:-)

I have... need to in fact, as I am getting to the how humans ended up with Alien blood in them

:-)

That and the Vedas

If there is a vengeful god I am about to really burn in hell

[The Straight Story]

25. Heh, you said Tal and it reminded of someone that was huge to me growing up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Tal

A famous Chess player. And not batshit crazy like Fischer was...lol

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Thanks, coincidence

I came up with that species name all on my own, I swear

I know very little, if at all, about chess

Kasparov, that's it

[The Straight Story]

28. It has a rich an amazing history. I used to play in tournaments and lettered in chess in school

We won all the time, while our football team lost a lot. They got the cheerleaders, we got jack.

I became friends with several good Russian players, and almost beat Gregory Markzon (sp after all these years) in a simul exhibition at the Jewish center. Still kick myself for not moving my rook to the right one space instead of the left. He smiled and shrugged when I did, and I smiled back. I had a draw with him and missed it. DOH! Nervous jitters of a 16 yr old I suppose.

Sorry to go off track with it all, just have fond memories of those days :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. No problem...

It is interesting how worlds sometimes bring back memories

:-)

glad to do that

[The Straight Story]

30. Needed it, X was in hospital most of today

She just called me and is home. I will be taking the day off tomorrow to take care of daughter, and X has to go and get another MRI tomorrow. Kept my little girl oblivious to it all though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Glad to do that for you

[CRF450]

45. My religious wing nut aunt is the same way.

When she talks about the rapture coming now that Obama is in office, I just say "bring it on!".

[csziggy]

6. Nothing will happen and the people who gave up their lives and possessions will look like idiots

It has happened hundred of times before in history.

One of my favorite sites for listing the various doomsday prophecies throughout history - and the ones to look forward to - is "It's the End of the World As We Know It...Again!" Any site that uses lyrics from the Tom Lehrer song "We'll All Go Together" on their front page has got to have a sense of humor about End Times! http://www.geocities.com/Athens/oracle/9941/

[seemslikeadream]

7. gave up their lives and possessions will look like idiots

I have never heard that anyone was advocating that

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Talking about this in Mexico

here are some factoids for ya, that I need to check upon

According to some rather orthodox Jews... we will know the identity of the Messiah in the next two years

Never mind the last one died three years ago... (and the next to last false messiah did include selling of possessions as the magic blanket would take all to Israel, 17th century time period)

We know that the son of Ali is already amongst us

And of course the Antichrist is already walking the earth

Not to mention the opposing to the Antichrist.

Of course Shinto is having its own prophecies and even Buddhists are going nuts

We all went... damn... everybody is going a little loco in the cabeza... for real

As a historian I think all of this is happening since people are using numerology (again) to try to determine the end of times... and when they come, we did it ourselves. That is unless we have a couple things happen that would be an extinction level event and we didn't have a thing to do with it

1.- Supervolcano goes off... possibly will see goodnight for the species

2.- Apofis strikes the planet, large enough to do that.

3.- Alignment brings some kind of astronomical high energy event

After that... humans have the capacity to bring the end all on our lonesome and make prophecy become a self fulfilling one

[csziggy]

40. So the believers will pack up all their possessions in their SUVs

And expect the SUVs to be taken in the Rapture along with their bodies and souls?

Lots of the "end of the world" groups have set times and places from where they will ascend. In the past thousands have divested themselves of their worldly goods - since they will no longer need them - and gone to those locations to prepare themselves.

When the time came and went, most of the people would go back to their communities and restart their lives, feeling foolish and deluded.

Read some of the synopses at the link I posted above. Especially some of the Christian end timers - they are sadly amusing.

[seemslikeadream]

44. I was not speaking of Christian end timers

more like DNA shifting new "age" type thing, sorry for the confusion

HUMAN DEVOLUTION
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=419826895977801...
Forbidden Archeology
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4198268959778013821&ei=f-3lSZjpFJ-Q-wGGsOGEDg&q=Human+Devolution&hl=en

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

69. What's the difference?

It's all a load of crap.

[rucky]

10. The Galactic Federation of Light will visit us in November, 2008

then we won't have to worry about 2012.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. And I for one welcome our galactic overlords!

:-)

[Mari333]

12. lol

[CRF450]

46. You must have seen the last South Park episode.

Which made a spoof of this subject. Damn entertaining too.

[pnwmom]

15. Same thing that happened in 2000. Nothing. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Reset the calendar for 2032-2034

mark this post

:-)

[G_j]

21. remember the Harmonic Convergence

I remember having fun at least...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_Convergence

Harmonic Convergence
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Harmonic Convergence is the term applied to a worldwide esoteric-religious event which occurred on August 16 and 17, 1987. The event was centered around numerous sacred places throughout the world from Stonehenge to the Golden Gate Bridge where individuals, many referring to themselves as "light beings", gathered to usher in a new age.
The timing of the Harmonic Convergence particularly correlated with the Mayan Calendar, with some consideration also given to European and Asian astrological traditions. The chosen dates have the distinction of allegedly marking a planetary alignment within our Solar System.

The Harmonic Convergence was purported to be a global awakening to love and unity through divine transformation and divine channeling of sacred information. One of the principal organizers of the Harmonic Convergence event was the academic and author José Argüelles. However, the event was not predicted by Argüelles. Rather, the event was predicted by author Tony Shearer in his book Lord of the Dawn (1971), and later used by Argüelles. According to Argüelles' interpretation of Mayan cosmology, the selected date marked the end of twenty-two cycles of 52 years each, or 1,144 years in all. The twenty-two cycles were divided into thirteen "heaven" cycles, which began in AD 843 and ended in 1519, when the nine "hell" cycles began, ending 468 years later in 1987.

According to Argüelles, the event came at the end of these "hell" cycles and the beginning of a new age of universal peace. Adherents believed that signs indicated a "major energy shift" was about to occur, a turning point in Earth's collective karma and dharma, and that this energy was powerful enough to change the global perspective of man from one of conflict to one of co-operation. Actress and author Shirley MacLaine called it a "window of light", allowing access to higher realms of awareness.

According to Argüelles and others, the Harmonic Convergence also began the final 26-year countdown to the end of the Mayan Long Count in 2012, which would be the so-called end of history and the beginning of a new 5,125-year cycle. Evils of the modern world, e.g. war, materialism, violence, abuses, injustice, oppression, etc. would end with the birth of the 6th Sun and the 5th Earth on December 21, 201

****//////////////***~!~***\\\\\\\\\\\\\\*****

http://www.thewildrose.net/harmonic_convergence.html

The Harmonic Convergence was an announcement of the forthcoming end of time as we know it and a preparation to move from third-dimensional reality of space into fourth-dimensional reality of time. Contrary to popular belief, it is time rather than gravity that keeps everything in the universe in order. Time is the mathematics of the universal laws of nature, the unifying force that holds everything together. The Mayans knew this, basing the Mayan calendar on the universal mathematics of the fourth dimension. The frequency of time is the 13:20 ratio on which the Mayan calendar is based. Humanity is now in the process of changing the old 12:60 (twelve months in a year, 60 minutes in an hour) timing frequency to the timing of natural law, thus taking us out of time as we know it and into fourth dimensional awareness. When we have accomplished this transformation, we will enter a new path of spiritual and mental evolution in tune with the cycles of the universe. Some call this “Heaven on Earth.”

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. My, my, how could I forget that one?

Thanks

[muriel_volestrangler]

55. 2038

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem

[Lone_Star_Dem]

19. I guess the come up with reasons why

The modern calendars, the Mayan calendar or which ever one they adhere to was off. If I'm not mistaken some millenarian followers believe that independent thinking is akin to a 'dangerous infection' which is to be avoided. Considering that I suppose they'll believe whatever they're told. :shrug:

[Duer 157099]

24. It's about a galactic alignment

which certainly will happen; happens every 26,000 years.

How it will affect us remains to be seen

But it's not just a date pulled out of the air

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. I know what it is in the grand galactic scheme

but all the predictions are down right millenarian... they fit that pattern

Not the science pattern

And that is the point

what happens when the date comes and goes and nothing happens?

(For the record what may happen on a galactic scale would be, not only coincidence, but possible... a supervolcano going off, they are bound to do that in the geologic scale) or a high energy event.

Both are very, very low in the probabilty scale in happening in the next three years, let alone that day.

Now millenarian thinking scares me for the potential for SELF fulfilling prophecy... and that can also be an extinction level event.

[truedelphi]

36. There's also the common sense notion that the reason the Mayan Calendar ends in 2012 is

Because they got tired of chiseling.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Well there is another one, that is not popular who push for this

The new count, the old count they call come together at that point

Aka the count ends, and the cycle begins again

That is to say another day in the calendar.

How's that for common sense? And that is what Mayanist think is the actual explanation...

[Somawas]

35. It will begin a new Long Count

in the Mayan timekeeping cosmology.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Bingo, the current opinion among the experts,

another day in the calendar, though if I were Maya, an important one

[muriel_volestrangler]

56. No, there won't be any alignment in 2012

And that date has indeed been just pulled out of the air. The apparent position of the sun at the winter solstice (which has no particular meaning, anyway) slowly changes with respect to the galactic plane; but the actual plane is not well defined (it's "where the stars are most concentrated", and that is complicated by dust clouds being concentrated in that plane too), and it's impossible to say that the 2012 position is any closer to the plane than 2011, or 2013, or several years either side. And note that the position of the sun crosses the galactic plane twice a year anyway; it's just that, at the moment, one of those times is roughly at the winter solstice.

Some people claim there's an alignment with the galactic centre. That's just wrong. See some links, and the results of an astronomy program, in this post.

So, no alignment will happen; and even if there was an alignment of the earth, sun, and galactic plane (or even galactic centre) in a plane also containing the earth's axis (ie at the winter solstice), so what? Why would that have any effect at all?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. Actually, yes, it was pulled out of the air.

Mayans arbitrarily decided that the world began on 3114 B.C.E. therefore their calendar runs out on 2012 C.E.

[realisticphish]

32. REM record sales will skyrocket

[Canuckistanian]

33. I want to watch Jack van Impe and Rexella

They've been pushing this 2012 thing for years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. It will be fun to watch false prophets, granted

:-)

[Subdivisions]

39. Ok so what happens when 2012 comes and goes and

the earth is left a smoldering cinder?

[comtec]

60. It's not as though there is DICK we can do one way or the other

the world ends or it doesn't.
So what?
I'm going to try to live my life as though I'm going to live to be 50000000 years old :)

Personally i only have 63 years left, as my family, though tough as raw hide, only live to be 97. That's it.
McCoy's get 97 years (for the most part) and then POOF!
Grandma left 3 years early (god I miss her), a couple weeks after I saw her, and moved to Holland.
But she gets an exemption, she was hit chest on with a water cannon...

like I said we're tough. If I believed in miracles, her survival and relative rebound would have sealed the deal for me. (in a way it did, but enough on my spirituality)

Look if we're all going to die, we're all going to die.

I won't let that stop me from trying to make our time here as nice as possible. There's no reason we should ruin th party for the animals, and next dominant species, now is there?

[Alamuti Lotus]

41. same as all the other millenarian duds--

the true believers will, with complete absence of any sense of shame or irony, begin planning for the next end of the world craze.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. 2032 or 2034, yep

I know

[Ellipsis]

43. self delete

[dorkulon]

47. I'll never undrstand why people latch onto these ancient superstitions.

Seriously, I know people who make fun of Christians but then take astrology or this Mayan calendar business as gospel. WTF people? Try living without any goofy illusions for once.

[seemslikeadream]

48. I wonder what your illusion of how old the Sphinx is?

[dorkulon]

49. This ought to be interesting.

I'm gonna say about 4 and a half thousand years. Why don't you enlighten me?

[Democracyinkind]

50. He's gonna hit you with 10,000 years or so now. " Archaeologists lie that's why I trust people

who write books on archeology but have no formal education in it". Forbidden Archeology is a great book, granted, but someone stating its opinions (or Hancock's, or Von Dänikens) as counter fact just blows me. Isn't the message of FA that we have way too little evidence to paint a big picture? You read that, and then you turn a page and it's like .. wait.. you can paint a big picture.. as long as it's totally different from the traditional one.. Well I don't know.

Seems kinda odd to me - here you go from convincing yourself that the time of mans appearance is a bit shaky, and not chiseled in stone - and your reaction is to chisel it in stone, just 10'ooo years older. Quite frankly, this is the reason why Cremo has never made it to the Universities. That's the reason why my Archaeologist friends, although open to these ideas, turn them down: They're not interested in someone telling them a story based on circumstantial evidence, they wanna build sound, scientific, peer reviewed knowledge that expands our horizon and isn't susceptible to a preconceived ideas of when man appeared.

[dorkulon]

52. Either way, I don't see the point.

If solid evidence indicated it was 10,000 years old, then I would accept that. I don't see how it's relevant to what I said in the 1st place. If the point is "things aren't always as they seem," well that is elementary. But "things may not be as they seem" is a far cry from "things are exactly as they don't seem." This is the logical leap I don't get. The sphinx might be older than we think, therefore bigfoot and Elvis live in a flying saucer in Atlantis? There are gaps in the fossil record, therefore the bible must be literally true? Pointing out holes in our knowledge doesn't imply that those holes can be filled with metaphysical cotton candy. Just because we don't know something doesn't mean that it must be the most outlandishly strange thing in existence.

[Democracyinkind]

54. I totally agree - I was trying to anticipate the revelation about the Sphinx of the other poster

I couldn't agree more with what you wrote. You said it better than I could.

I just smelled to old Sphinx question and knew what was coming, so I prematurely included a critique of Forbidden Archeology, just so nobody uses that book to "prove" anything in here.

great post.

[truedelphi]

67. SOME PEOPLE JUST CANNOT GRASP THE NOTION THAT SOME OF US "ENTERTAIN"

possibilities - it doesn't mean we would stake our lives on them, we are just entertaining ourselves.

I mean, it's not like some one from the Interplanetary Science Committee from Outer Space is gonna ask me to come and present a talk on the Sphinx. And besides,if they did, they are too many light years away for me to make that presentation.
(Sorry about the caps - they keep getting hit by left hand and turned on accidentally; space people having nothing to do with it.)

[dorkulon]

70. Well, okay then.

Enjoy your cotton candy. :)

[truedelphi]

72. I'm enjoying it.

Today's cotton candy comes with this proverb from einstein - "Logic takes you from A to B. Imagination takes you everywhere!"

Gorgeous spring day to have at it as well. The Goddess be praised.

[cali]

51. The 2012 predictions are largely relegated to the new age

and secular branch of millenarianism. Although related psychologically to traditional eschatology, it's really a minor phenomenon. Very little will happen regarding the misinterpreted Mayan "predictions", just as very little happened in 2000. In fact, it's likely that less will happen and there won't be the kind of publicity we say 9 years ago.

[and-justice-for-all]

53. the same thing that always happens with these preditions

notta.

[ProfessorGAC]

59. Lots Of Bummed Out Believers

That's what will happen. No offense to the Mayan culture, but anybody who thinks the EOW is coming because their calendar ended there is an idiot.

Their calendar ended there because they didn't get to further extensions of it when their culture began to self-immolate.

I just don't get people who look forward to the end of everything. That's just stupid.
GAC

[mwb970]

61. They will say it proved them right!

This is what always happens with the kooks that give a specific day and time when some terrible cosmic thing that they've made up will happen. It doesn't, of course, and they and their followers sitting out on the hill invariably take this as proof that they were right! "Thank God we sat on this hill and prevented disaster." Whew!

This same thing happens every time one of these crazy prophecies fails. It reinforces the belief, rather than undermining it as you would expect.

[cobalt1999]

62. Every generation at every point in history had it's "end of the world" prediction.

So far the score is: Predictions 0 Reality 50,000

I'm not betting on this prediction either.

[SpiralHawk]

63. The world will not end

According to the traditional Mayan elders, Daykeepers, who have responsibility for understanding the Mayan calendars. One epoch ends, with massive change, and another begins.

Here's some of what the traditional elders say:

Messages from the Mayan Milieu
http://www.chiron-communications.com/communique%207-10.html

[ejpoeta]

64. you know how many times it was the end of the world!!! i remember being in school

in the cafeteria and holding my breath waiting for time to stop. but it didn't. the History channel is funny sometimes with their doomed earth shows.

[conscious evolution]

65. My 2012 is not woo based.

It comes from a chapter in a book on Chaos Theory I read in the eighties which took a look at retirement rates and the DJIA.
If you compare the two you can't help but notice that when the number of people retiring each year goes up the Dow goes down.
In 2010 the baby boomers start hitting retiremeent age in numbers never seen before.If the historical pattern holds true we have not seen the bottom for the DJIA yet.
I sure as hell wish I could remember the books title and author to link to the data.I am also trying to locate Census Buruae data on retirement rates to recreate the comparison in order to post it here on DU but am having trouble finding it on their website.
Its a situation where someone connected dots and now I can't find the dots.AARRGHH!Maddening I tell you!

[LanternWaste]

66. Same thing that happened....

Same thing that happened to people who thought martial law would be enacted on Bush's last day, or the same thing that happened to people who thought that America would become embroiled in a civil war after the election, or the same thing that happened to people who stocked up on rations and ammunition thinking the economy will collapse-- 44 pounds of egg on their faces, and twice that much in backpedaling and explaining about what they *really* meant...

[ColbertWatcher]

71. Don't joke about ...

... http://www.wikiality.com/The_Great_Bear_Uprising