The truly guilty parties for torture

[autorank]

Here are the real guilty parties for torture.

They received authorization requests from interrogators.

Then they "choreographed" torture scenarios and APPROVED those scenarios for use.

The people below had command responsibility. They could have said no.

WHO ARE THE GUILTY PARTIES?

From ABC News, April 10, 2008:

"In dozens of top-secret talks and meetings in the White House, the most senior Bush administration officials discussed and approved specific details of how high-value al Qaeda suspects would be interrogated by the Central Intelligence Agency, sources tell ABC News" http://tinyurl.com/5es872">ABC News, Apr. 10, 2008

The list of officials includes Vice President Cheney, along with Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld, George Tenet, and John Ashcroft -- who were cabinet members at the time -- and Condoleezza Rice." They "discussed and approved" torture scripts that were followed to the letter:

"The high-level discussions about these "enhanced interrogation techniques" were so detailed, these sources said, some of the interrogation sessions were almost choreographed -- down to the number of times CIA agents could use a specific tactic. ABC News, Apr. 10, 2008"

This is what came of it:

If this story is correct, these are the guilty parties. Indict them, get them to roll over on Bush while Bush is being indicted for murder, as suggested in detail, by Vincent Bugliosi.

[FiveGoodMen]

1. K&R

[autorank]

17. THNX!

[winyanstaz]

2. Return us to a Nation of Laws

Restore the Constitution. Wipe this shame off the name of America.

[truedelphi]

7. Yes,please. We need to know that crimes are punished

Otherwise how can we say we are a nation of laws?

[DemReadingDU]

11. If we were a nation of laws

we wouldn't be in the mess of corruption that we are in today

[autorank]

14. They did this and we have to live with it. Just like the economic meltdown.

The least we should get is some justice, real justice.

[dysfunctional press]

3. actually- every person who isn't marching in the street to DEMAND justice is gulty.

all that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.

[EFerrari]

4. Imhho, the hands that did the torture are just as guilty as Cheney et all.

The program could not have gone forward without their agreement and cooperation.

[autorank]

20. We don't know who said no

I'll bet there were some and it doesn't take a lot to figure out that this was bogus.

However, my point is that ABC said that five top officials approved and also choreographed torture.
They would be a wonderful place to start. It's there in print. The FBI should investigate and,
if it's true, turn it over to Justice for prosecution. It's very simple. It's a crime and those
who order it should face consequences first. Maybe Condi would roll over and drop a dime on all
of them!!!

[Uncle Joe]

5. "Enhanced interrogation" makes torture sound

like the prisoners get XBOX privileges if they cooperate.

Thanks for the thread, autorank.

[ProgressiveFool]

13. speaking of "WTF does that mean" moments

WTF does this mean?

"To violate the statute, an individual must have the specific intent to inflict severe pain or suffering," Bybee wrote. "Because specific intent is an element of the offense, the absence of specific intent negates the charge of torture. "

So I slam someone's head into the wall, but I don't intend to cause severe pain or suffering? Slamming heads into walls is just for fun?

[autorank]

21. Uncle Joe, here some enhancements

This is what POWELL, Rice, Tenet, Ashcroft, etc. used to create the scenarios that they approved.
Of great significance, these people took these techniques and wrote how prisoners WOULD be interrogated.

They called the shots. Who could even stand to be in the presence of these people?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_interrogation_techniques

According to ABC News<25>, former and current CIA officials have come forward to reveal details of interrogation techniques authorized in the CIA. These include:

1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes them
2. Attention Slap: An open-handed slap to the face aimed at causing pain and triggering fear
3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the abdomen. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage
4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor, for more than 40 hours
5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees Fahrenheit (10 degrees Celsius)
6. Waterboarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Material is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over them. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1322866

[BelgianMadCow]

6. remember WHO was prosecuted in Nuremberg

not the gazillion germans fighting their leader's war.

I'm trying to locate the "chain of fools"- cartoon from wayback then, showing the chain from Lyndie all the way to Rummy and Bush.
No luck so far :-(

[autorank]

19. Sounds like a great cartoon

Lucky Lindy - the NAZI sympathizing hero. Imagine that.

We just need people who will recognize the law in high places and we need a local prosecutor who
will read the book outlining the case in "The Trial of George W. Bush for Murder" by Vince Bugliosi.

[ThomWV]

8. K&R Here too ...

[malaise]

9. Correct

but there are lots of others over at CIA etc who implemented these policies and violated their own ethics laws. Lock them all up.

[autorank]

22. Right

Everyone treated equally under the law; start at the top to make the point broadly.

People are so disaffected by seeing ordinary citizens, the people who do the work that makes
the country great, taking it on the chin while the top dogs sit there and excuse themselves
from "consequences."

Your point is why I like Bugliosi's approach - it's just the law, pursue it vigorously.

[wiggs]

10. Isn't it true that 24 detainees died in custody at Abu Ghraib alone? How does that

square with the memos and the claims that no permanent damage is done and that the presence of medical personnel proves it's not torture? How did those detainees die...not by waterboarding, walling, or insects...there were other techniques surely.

[autorank]

16. Could be but

there were pre existing medical factors involved with each subject and the torture could have
triggered something already there. Or the repeated torture could have created a condition or
conditions that were exacerbated by continual torture. I'm in denial. You're probably right.
That's really frightening.

[ThomWV]

12. I am certain that is why the 80 tapes were destroyed

[autorank]

15. Mystery solved

It was obvious that they were hiding something when they destroyed the tapes. But now you hit it on the head - people probably died or moved strongly in that direction and the tapes were evidence.

That would mean that the "choreographers," as they were called in that amazing ABC article, were guilty of a much bigger crime than torture.

Excellent point.

[autorank]

18. .