If Airlines are going to charge extra for the obese then do the same for those who lean back seats

[LynneSin]

Because I'm tired of having to take an entire flight with someone's greasy, dandruffed hair practically leaning back in my lap. I'm 5'10 and my knees come out of those planes all bruised because the asshole in front of me will keep jerking his/her seat back trying to lean back - well hell, where am I suppose to put my damn knees at you fricking MORON!

I remember a long time ago airplanes were designed to provide enough room so anyone could fit in their seats or lean back. This is bullshit that one group is punished so the airlines can cram more of us in these planes like sardines. If the Obese must pay double then so must anyone who wishes to lean their seats back.

[rug]

1. Those that fart inflight should be charged triple.

[LynneSin]

2. And if you want to bring kids that scream - charge them extra too

Tired of flights where I have some antsy kid screaming & crying at the top of their lungs. If I have to have my aural area infringed then either make these parents pay more or give out free Ambien for all the kids on the plane (and strap them in so they don't go sleep walking)

[meegbear]

15. Flew the other week from Las Vegas to Philly with a screaming kid ...

:grr:

[kaygore]

22. I always a pack a toy or two or book for cross country flights and offer

which ever is most age appropriate to the parent of the unruly child. Also, hypoallergenic, organic, limited sweets treats are also handy. Just that some stranger makes these offers often quiets the kid. The expense is minimal compared to three thousand miles of screams.

[LynneSin]

24. Except now I'm limited more with what I can carry and have to pay extra when I'm over

:grr:

[omega minimo]

49. LOL

[dmallind]

3. Judging by the usual response to that plan

If we are logically consistent then he paid for a seat that could lean back all the way so he has the right to all of it, regardless of your needs. Perhaps they could charge taller people extra as their knees will push into the back of the 100% paid for lean of the person in front?

[ORDagnabbit]

4. i think its about time they started doing this and I think their health insurance premiums should be

raised as well.

[dmallind]

11. They are

Try and send in two applications for insurance listing your weight as 180 and as 280 respectively and see what happens.

Now what about motorcyclists or even cyclists who have a higher risk of accidents? Rock climbers? People with speeding tickets? Is it just extra risks that you don;t have that you want to charge for or all of them in fair ratio to their real risk?

[kaygore]

26. Hmmmm....you might want to reconsider this

I am overweight but eat a low-fat, no-sugar or salt, plant-based diet of organic foods only. I exercise regularly, do not smoke or drink or take any illegal substances; I also take no over the counter or prescription drugs, and have no health issues--all tests come back perfect plus.

I would argue that those who should have their insurance premiums raised (if that's what you want to do--I am for single-payer national health care myself) are those who eat junk food, sugar, white flour, meat, and dairy products. There is a huge body of sound research that says such behaviors plus smoking and drug use of most drugs, even the over the counter kind, are far more deadly and cause far higher rates of illness that lead to expensive medical treatments than healthy life-style and some weight. Read "The China Study," for example, before you go after those who are over weight. That is just how some of us are made and because of that we do not bear the heath problems of those, even lean, people on the Western diet.

[TTUBatfan2008]

62. How overweight are you?

We are not talking 20-30 pounds here. We're talking 100+ pounds overweight. I'm 10-20 pounds overweight myself and I consider that pretty average in this country.

[Scout]

95. fuck that shit

i'm 225, down from 245 at 5'4". i'm 49 years old. i'm a woman.

my blood pressure is perfect, as are my blood sugar levels, triglycerides and my bad cholesterol is extremely low. i just had my annual physical last week. all other blood chemistry is fine too.

i can bench press 100 pounds, do squats with 175 pounds on the bar, and routinely do 3-5 miles of cardio 3-4 times a week. i swim, hike, do yoga, ride my bike, ride horses. there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with me other than being "overweight." oh yeah--i'm about to have my first bone density scan and i bet you anything my bones are in great shape, ESPECIALLY for a 49 year old much less a younger woman.

i'll stack my real health up against that of a lot of the "beautiful people" i know.

i get so tired of fat snobs.

[Dr.Phool]

104. I may be fat, but I'm not a snob!

[Scout]

141. oh sorry, i wasn't trying to call a person a "fat snob" ....

i meant in general, people who are not fat themselves but are snobby about those who are fat.

i'm sorry if i wasn't clear about that!

:hi:

[Initech]

5. Some jackass almost broke my laptop because he put the seat down as far as it could go.

[kaygore]

28. Same here--he (and it was a "he") just rammed his seat back, pushing as hard as he could when he put

The person next to me had his drink spill all over him, too.

[madamesilverspurs]

92. Must be related to the jackass

who slammed his seat back jamming my tray-table into my ribs. I tapped him on the head and asked him to please put his seat upright so that I could breathe; he complied, but as soon as he heard me clip the table into the seatback he slammed back, again. His seat stayed fully reclined for the rest of the flight, even when he leaned forward to work on his laptop. My two seatmates (strangers to me) delighted in 'accidentally' putting their hands on his face as they wrestled themselves out of their seats to get to the restroom. I almost wished that I hadn't taken the Dramamine...

[Raineyb]

112. They must be related to the jackass I was sitting behind who not only constantly

put the seat back but felt the need to turn around every time she did so to give me a dirty look because my knees kept ramming into her back. It wouldn't be a problem if she got the hint the first time it happened. Where exactly was I supposed to put my knees anyway? What a moron!

Regards

[mainegreen]

6. If you lean your seat back in front of me, you will suffer horribly.

You WILL put your seat forward.
There is no other option.

[LynneSin]

8. Last flight I won the battle of the seat leanback

My knees were bruised as hell but I came out victoriously!

[uppityperson]

14. So YOU were the one who assaulted me rather than just asking if I'd

raise my seatback? Perhaps talking to me might have been a better idea that repetitively hitting me in my back.

Congratulations, that really made my day.

[LynneSin]

27. I wasn't hitting your back just not moving my knees

they happened to be attached to the rest of my body and YOU were invade the space where they were located

:grr:

[kaygore]

39. I always request that the person in front put the seat back up just a little

not all the way, just enough for me to work or have a drink on the try. Most do but some have responded by trying to ram the seat further back. I won't fly Delta for this reason. I swear that their seats are the closest in the industry and having the person on a Delta flight put his or her seat back is a form of sexual assault.

[Common Sense Party]

88. I just return the favor and teabag them.

It's all the rage these days.

[uppityperson]

125. Thank you, politeness helps as we are all crowded in there and it may be

out of my control. If the person in front of the person in front of me reclines fully, it passes on down. I appreciate the consideration of someone directly asking me rather than simply being violent.

[MineralMan]

44. It's always obvious that reclining your seat is going to

encroach on the person behind you. I don't do it. Ever. It's not polite to inconvenience the person behind you to gain 5 degrees of angle.

[kaygore]

29. Congratulations--I don't mind if the seat is back a bit...but all the way

makes it difficult to work or even to have a meal or drink on the tray.

[Luminous Animal]

76. How refreshingly passive agressive! (n/t)

[Common Sense Party]

81. I just teabag the seat leanerbacker.

It saves time.

[MadBadger]

110. I kick the seat every so often, just to keep them awake.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. I don't know why people are surprised about the seats leaning back.

They ALL lean back. The person in front of you is cramped, too.

[LynneSin]

10. But if NO ONE leaned back we wouldn't have this issue

those seat leanbacks infringe on the space of my knees - and it HURTS!

[Inuca]

16. I know exactly what you mean

(5' 10" as well). Long flights are beyond uncomfortable.

[Control-Z]

50. Husband is 6'3",

my son is now 6'4" (and growing). We've been on multiple flights together. West coast - East coast. They've never said a word. I'm small, and demand the window seat so I have a place to lean my head to sleep. But the big guys, seriously, never a word or a problem out of either one.

Now ask my son to sit in the back seat of my convertible so his little sister can sit in front, and all hell breaks loose.

[uppityperson]

17. Take it up with the airlines, not the other paying passengers

First class has extra leg room, as do bulkhead seats.

[EOTE]

21. When you lean your seat back into other people's knees,

you're taking it up with the other paying passengers and not with the airlines. It's called common courtesy and being decent.

[Zywiec]

43. Not really

The airline is providing me a seat that reclines, not the person behind me.

On a long flight to Singapore I had someone try to block my seat from reclining. Instead of saying anything to the person behind me, I simply rang the call button for the stewardess. She helped me get my seat reclined.

[EOTE]

69. And if you do that at the expense of the comfort of the person behind you,

you're being an ass. And it's certainly within the right of the person behind you to disrupt your comfort by doing what they can to stretch out and experience less pain from your actions.

[Zywiec]

80. What about the obese person who flies at the expense of the comfort of the person next to them

Am I within my rights to disrupt their comfort by doing what I can to stretch out and experience less pain from their actions?

:shrug:

[EOTE]

83. Yes, yes you are. NT.

[CTyankee]

45. I agree with you but as long as airlines allow a seat to be put back people will feel

it is their "right" to do so. Perhaps airlines should just not have seats that go that far back. That would solve the problem.

[dysfunctional press]

63. as long as the seats go back that far- it IS the passenger's right to do so.

nt

[dysfunctional press]

64. and if EVERYONE leaned back- it wouldn't be an issue either.

and if i had wheels, i'd be a wagon.

[EOTE]

70. You must not do much air travel, or simply not have decent spatial relationship skills.

By leaning back, you are doing almost nothing to reclaim the lost leg space from the person in front of you. Leaning back simply helps your back feel more comfortable. It doesn't give you extra leg space.

[Warren DeMontague]

75. You can scoot your butt further up the seat, giving you more leg room. nt

[dysfunctional press]

94. the idea is to put your feet under the seat in front of you...

i'm 6'2", and i'm always able to manage...:shrug:

[XOKCowboy]

103. Well that brings us to MY RANT - People who bring too much "carry-on"

I'm 6'1" and I carry on ONE backpack and put it in the overhead so I can stretch my legs under the seat in Economy. I can't tell you how many times I've been asked to put my backpack under the seat by someone with a huge roller bag, a huge purse, a computer bag and whatever they bought at the airport shops. My answer is a firm NO and point to my legs going under the seat in front of me.

Very easy solution. I have a feeling that would solve the OP's problem also if they didn't try to "carry-on" everything they're going to need for the next 2 weeks.

[dysfunctional press]

109. a lot of times, i'll put my backpack on the floor under my legs- but not under the seat in front...

so that i have a place for my feet.
my wife and i generally travel together, and if we can, we generally put up the armrest between our seats. my favourite coach seats are/were the two seats on the side of a dc-10...i can't remember the last time i was on one, though.

[XOKCowboy]

114. Over the wing exit row window seat on 737s is my favorite

No Seat In Front Of You! There is a reason people rack up FF miles. I love United Economy Plus seats. :)

[dysfunctional press]

117. i used to fly a lot more than i have lately...i used to work for united...

but that was 15 years ago.

the BEST seats we ever flew in was in the bubble on a regular 747 going to hawaii to get married- i think it was 4 or 6 rows of seats- two on each side of the aisle, and a stew dedicated to the cabin. sweet.

the best airline bathroom i ever used was on britishair- we had business class to london, and we used the first class lavatories. :wow:

[XOKCowboy]

123. I fly out of Denver so I know United very well..

and I won't knock them. If you're a FF they take very good care of you. I never made it into the bubble on a 747. I dreaded 747s because I was always in Economy (clients buy the cheapest ticket available) going to Asia if I was flying one and that's scary. I liked the 777s much better. I did make it up to Exec Premier for a few years and I sure miss it. I even booked my flight from Denver to Tulsa through Chicago last Christmas just to keep Premier. My family thought I was nuts but they don't fly.

Well I never saw the first class loos on a BA flight but I did love the flight attendants accents. :)

[dysfunctional press]

126. people would book short hops and connections at the end of the year to hang onto their status...

especially if there was some kind of promotion/sale going on.

when the 777's first came out, iirc i switched my las-ord nonstop to a connection in den, just to fly on one- but they switched the equipment to a 747-400, which kind of pissed me off- but i got the upstairs again...however- the 'bubble' on those things is a lot bigger, and doesn't seem as...'special':shrug:

another neat feature on the 747's is the 'crew cabin' that's upstairs in the back of the plane- it's got several berths in it so the crew can sleep(not all at once) on the long hauls.

as for the ba 1st-class crappers..they've got bud vases with cut flowers, and enough room to actually pace.(i was trying to decide if the double-condomed quarter-bag of pot would be better in my shoe, up my...well...y'know, there...or just forgoe it all and drop it in the airplane toilet. i opted for my shoe. no problems.

[Statistical]

132. Only the top portion of the chair moves. the bottom is fixed.

leg room is exactly the same regardless.

By leaning YOUR seat back you can kinda "slope" your body and stretch your feet out under the chair in front of you.

(Now by putting this routine into words I really noticed how much the dehumanize us).

[Warren DeMontague]

74. This is one of those fights, like which way the toilet paper roll should go---

that no one will ever win.

If the seat backs weren't meant to be reclined, they wouldn't be able to be reclined. It is completely irrational to expect that a plane full of people on seats with buttons that recline those seats, NONE of them are going to recline the seats.

Look, flying in coach is a nightmare. I'm 6 feet tall. Really, I think the most humane option at this point would be to sedate all the passengers & stack them like cordwood in the cargo hold.

But if you're taking it as a personal affront that the person in front of you is putting their seat back-- it's not. It's quite likely they can't figure out what your problem is.

[Common Sense Party]

87. It should roll from the front.

Duh.

I'm glad we solved that.

[Statistical]

133. That would be nice.

Personal velvet lined coffin. knock you out for the trip and stack everyone 5 high in a cargo plane.

wake you up at the other end.

God help the poor soul who wakes up inside a dark coffin halfway between Tokyo and Japan.

[Hekate]

119. You still don't get it. The problem is not with the seats, it's with your legs being too long to fit

In order to be perfectly fair, all the seats should be locked into an upright position for the duration of the flight and have no adjustment capability at all. My friend with the crushed disc will just have to suffer, but fair's fair. You, on the other hand, should pay extra if your legs don't fit into the alloted space. It's not the airline's fault.

Hekate

[marshall]

143. Airline seats are MADE to lean back, not expand sideways

Passengers shouldn't be faulted for doing something that is expected with the price of a ticket.

And those who need extra leg room can request a seat in the front of the cabin, which has both more leg room AND no seat in front of it. Or they can request a seat by the emergency wing exit, which has more leg room because the seats in front are further ahead.

[countingbluecars]

9. No kidding!

The last time I was on a plane, I had a greasy, sweating bald head practically in my lap for three hours.

[Dappleganger]

12. No, just chop their fucking heads off!

God I can't stand those stupid jerks who don't give a damn who's space they invade. :mad:

[ingac70]

13. Not enough room? Fly first class.

Because I'll be goddamed if I'll not get to lay back in the seat I paid for like everyone else.

[MineralMan]

33. Isn't that just special?

You can do that, but if I'm behind you, I will become very, very annoying to you. It won't be enjoyable for you to recline. And I'll do it in a way that is completely OK. Trust me.

[ingac70]

48. I'll stay reclined just to piss you off...

and giggle at your futile efforts.

The seats recline for a reason. If you don't like it, take a bus. Oh, wait, those seats recline, too.

[MineralMan]

51. Oh, that will be fun, indeed. You'll be the first to succeed.

If you do.

[LynneSin]

53. Go for it! It'll be an extremely "bumpy" ride as my legs adjust to lack of space

so THERE!

[madamesilverspurs]

93. You do that to me

and I'll have a sneezing fit. With no tissue. After eating chips and dip. Oooopsy!

[ingac70]

148. Fine...

the seats don't lie down THAT far.... you'll just get it on the back of the seat.

[MineralMan]

18. So those seats recline about 5 degrees, at most...

It's really funny. It's not worth it to even bother. But it's funny to watch the folks in front of you try and try and try to get the thing to recline further.

These days, I'm paying extra to sit in an exit row or bulkhead row on all my flights. It's worth it. Northworst charges $15 for those seats. I always book far enough ahead that I can always get them. In the exit rows, though, you still get to watch the moron in front of you bank hisher back against the seat, over and over again...trying to get it to recline farther than is possible. C'est pour rire.

[sharp_stick]

19. I just wish they'd freeze the damned things

If you can get a seat by an exit the ones in front of you don't lean back and it's nice. I don't think a lot people know how little room they're leaving the person behind them. Normally I just ask and they move it forward.

[kaygore]

20. Oh man do I ever agree--nothing like having some strange man's

face in your lap! What really gets me is those who sit in the bulk head or exit row seats and have all that room but also ram their seats as far back as possible and then get all huffy when you ask if they will just put up their seats enough so that your drink fits on the tray.

There is nothing worse than someone with his or her seat jammed back on top of you. I would rather have someone's fat creeping over into my side of the seat than fly across country straight-jacketed by the idiot in the seat in front of me.

I NEVER put my seat back for this reason.

Oh, also, triple for children who kick the back of your seat while the parents keep whining, "Don't do that dear." I often think that the real reason that guns are not permitted on airplanes is because we would use them on those who ram their seats on top of us and those kids kicking our seats.

And don't get me started about what will happen if they ever let us use cell phones on board planes!!!!! Can you imagine all those jerks with their seats rammed back shouting on their cell phones because the engine noise makes it difficult for them to hear so they think that the guy sitting in his quiet office three thousand miles away is also having trouble hearing.

Those talking on cell phone should have to pay for every one else's tickets when that day comes!

[MineralMan]

25. In those cases, just lean forward and cough loudly several times.

Then start sneezing violently. That will generally get the seat in front of you unreclined, I find.

[kaygore]

34. Great tip! Thanks!!!!

[LynneSin]

30. I had a kicker once - we were flying Houston to Philly and hit tornados in the Carolinas

So not only was the plane hitting a shitload of turbulance but the kid was kicking my seat like Beckham.

Even worse when I asked the mom to try and do something - like have the kid sit in the middle seat where the seat in front was empty she was like "but my kid wants to look out the window."

[MineralMan]

36. I find that looking over the seat at the kicking child, and saying

"Please stop kicking my seat at once," in a very, very firm, loudish, measured voice, with a serious scowl on my face solves the problem. You must look the child directly in the eyes. The key is to use the word "please."

[pimpbot]

59. So, you dont like having your seat kicked?

Yet you find it perfectly acceptable to kick the one in front of you if they recline their seat? Nice double standard.

Ever been on a 14 hour flight in economy? I'll be damned if I'm not going to recline that seat. Everyone on the flight does it, and theres no problem.

[wickerwoman]

89. I've been on a 22 hour flight in economy

behind a f*in bitch reclined so far I couldn't put my tray table down to eat and couldn't adjust the angle of the TV screen to get it out of the glare. I didn't even have enough room to hold a book up in front of me. And I had to be a frickin contortionist to get out of the seat over the arm because the gap between the seat arm and the seat in front of me was smaller than my thigh. And I was sitting next to a kid who needed to get out and pee every forty minutes so I had bruises all over my legs from trying to get out of the seat in the tiny, tiny space left to me by the rude jerk who just had to have that extra bit of back angle.

Sorry, but it's obnoxious. And doing the same thing to the person behind me wouldn't have solved the problem.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

115. what was this so-called 22 hour flight?

the longest commercial route in service is about 18 hours...so maybe if you counted stops...

sP

[Withywindle]

151. I bet I took that one!

Kuala Lumpur to Newark, with one stop in Stockholm. :scared: (It was fascinating to see Pakistan and Afghanistan from the air, but Russia is like the Nebraska of air travel)

Funny, though - it was on a Malaysian airline and there was plenty of room between rows. No one seemed cramped. They have a little screen that shows where the plane is in relation to Mecca at all times. A few Muslims prayed in the aisles. Nobody freaked out. I was seated next to a family with about five little kids. They didn't bother anybody - they read, played video games on a little handheld thing with headphones, watched the inflight movie, drew pictures, slept.

Decent air travel CAN be done. Just not by the greedy cram-'em-in American airlines I've been on, or by bratty passengers with no concept of how to behave in public space.

[uppityperson]

127. Ironic, isn't it? nt

[rvablue]

97. One can only hope and pray that the flight attendants' union wins the battle on allowing cell phones

They don't want them and for obvious reasons. They'll be breaking up fights non stop.

And if they don't prevail, I won't be able to fly anymore.

Imagine being in a middle seat and listening to two people on either side of you yapping on the phone about ridiculous, mindless and inappropriate subjects.

[CreekDog]

23. I think people who don't let me lean back should be charged more and give that amount to me

:think: :evilgrin: :hide: :rofl:

[TZ]

35. You know what would be fun...

If I could sit behind you on a plane flight and kick the hell out of your seat...:evilgrin: :rofl:

[dmallind]

98. Again - the poster is EXACTLY paralleling the holier than thous

Who want to charge obese people double so "they can have 100% of the seat they paid for".

Don't you pay for a seat that reclines? Isn't that part of the 100% anyone else pays for?

I would suggest another passive aggressive thing to anybody large enough to be charged for two seats. Pay for them willingly - and then either sit in the middle one to be closest to the complaining blissninnies who supported this rule change, or sit in the other one and curl up your stocking feet right on the dividing line next to their seat. After all if the obese paid double they should get ALL of those two seats right - like the whiners want to claim for themselves?

[Mari333]

31. My middle son is 6 ft 6

he drives now and very rarely flies. too uncomfortable.

[Kolesar]

40. And he will probably become my boss because he is taller than me

Spend six hours a year flying and 8000 hours a year not flying and you complain about the six. Life is hard.

[Mari333]

42. nah he's not a boss type

hes just a free spirit whose incredibly tall. haha he would make a terrible boss.

[Stevenmarc]

32. And while they're at it can they upgrade me if I'm forced to sit near someones little genius.

[Kolesar]

37. Go Amtrak--they have plenty of leg room and you might meet Joe Biden!

:)

[LynneSin]

38. I live in Delaware - already met the guy many times along with the rest of the family

we're a small state - we get to know our senators. Hell he stood on my front porch and gave me a hug too!

[Kolesar]

41. I had to give mine $$$$. I am sure he would have hugged me if I wanted one

I have our picture on the wall of my office.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

131. Pfft...I've known my senator since I was a little kid

[county worker]

46. I hate flying now. Not only are you crammed in, your connecting flights can be canceled easily.

You go for a three day trip back east and spend 2 1/2 of them between cities.

[Common Sense Party]

84. I travel all the time for business, and I'll drive 8-10 hours rather than

get on a plane, if I can help it.

[dmallind]

99. Likewise. I have a under 600 mile = drive policy

It costs amazingly little time extra when you factor in changeovers, rental car waits, security lines, late and canceled flights etc. In fact I should do the math - it may even be less over time as there is almost no chance of missing whole days and having to do it again the next day like you do flying less popular segments where they only have one flight a day.

[Common Sense Party]

130. I go from Salt Lake to Denver a couple times a month.

I actually live an hour east of the airport, so when I factor in an hour to drive there, time to park and get the shuttle, check my bags, go through security, get to the gate an hour ahead of time, wait for the delayed flight, get on board, sit on the runway, fly one hour to Denver, wait for an open gate because the previous plane is delayed getting away, taking the tram, waiting for luggage, taking the rental car shuttle, getting my rental car, and then driving 20 miles into Denver...I could have been 3/4 of the way through Wyoming (if the weather's good.)

Plus, I'm a big guy. I hate being squeezed into a tiny seat, I hate hot, stuffy flights, I always pick up some sort of airborne bug and get sick. When I drive, I'm comfortable, I listen to what I want to listen to, I can make business calls, and I know exactly when I'm going to arrive. Plus, I don't have to cram all my suits and dress shirts into some undersized luggage.

[L0oniX]

47. ...and charge more if your kids face backward, stares, coffs and sneezes on ya.

[dysfunctional press]

52. as long as the seats are capable of reclination- it's the passenger's right to utilize the feature.

i don't like it any more than you do- but as long as they make the seats that way, people are going to do so.
in the future- get yourself into an exit row if possible- the seats in front of it don't recline.

[LynneSin]

54. And as long as my knees & legs are crammed - I have the right to make you miserable

so have a field day

:woohoo:

[dysfunctional press]

61. i don't recline my seat much at all- it's not a comfortable position for my arthritic spine...

as for the people who do- i don't really begrudge them for doing so, since the seat allows for it.
but- i usually try to pay a little extra for the seats with more leg-room(the past few flights i took, united offered it- i don't know if they still do), as i'm 6'2" myself.
and i'll never make the mistake of getting bulkhead seating again.

[uppityperson]

128. No, you don't have that right. I am sorry you feel you have the right to assault others.

Not surprised, but sorry.

[Ilsa]

55. Superglue their hair if they won't pull their seat back up after you ask. ;) nt

[spanone]

56. those of us height-challenged should receive a discount

[Hekate]

120. Absolutely. Anyone over 5'10" is taking up too damn much leg room. How is that the airlines' fault?

Seriesly.

[bikebloke]

57. Easy solution

Make the people in every other row get out and walk.:evilgrin:

[taught_me_patience]

58. If seats recline

then I, as a passenger, have a right to use that feature (that I paid for). This is a very weak argument, strawman argument.

[LynneSin]

60. And I have every right to ensure my legs have enough room in the plane

nuff said

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

65. The airline decided that you do have enough leg room.

Even with the seat in front of you fully reclined.

If you do not like it, you're welcome to purchase a ticket to the seat in front of you, and leave it in its upright position.

[taught_me_patience]

66. Completely agree

I'm 6'0" and don't have any problem. You can always purchase 1st class or bulkhead seats if it bothers you so much.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. I'm 6' 6" and always recline my seat.

And I'm willing to bet I have much less leg room than that other person, but I've never had a problem with the person in front of me.

[LynneSin]

71. The Airlines are assholes out to make a profit

nuff said

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. Then don't get on the plane.

Problem solved.

[tammywammy]

85. Well, duh

They are a business. American Airlines isn't a non-profit.

[dmallind]

100. But apparently obese people don't have that right for their torsos? NT

[Hekate]

121. Of course not: it's ALL about the fatness. However I'm working on the excess-height issue as of now

People have no right to be too tall, and it's up to the airlines to adjust the space so they will know when they are too tall.

Hekate

[dustbunnie]

145. You're getting all worked up over nothing. Almost no one will be affected.

Pretty much everyone, no matter how large you are, can manage to get the armrest down for twenty minutes while the plane takes off, and it's quite extreme to need more than one seat belt extender. In order for the rule to apply, you have to be someone who truly does take up two seats.

It would be the equivalent of an OP saying that all 8' people should require two seats. I'll bet most 8' people WOULD purchase an extra seat of their own accord.

The rules are not new. They've been written into policy since the 80s and 90s. It's just that airlines haven't implemented them and preferred to let average and smaller people deal with it. Why lose business when you can discriminate against thin people. Only now, the skinnies have revolted, rightfully so, and this is how the airlines have chosen to give lip service (which is all it is) to the problem

Instead of slamming thin people as being "selfish" why not take up your own fight with the airlines about lack of space. I'm sure everyone would be fine with giving an extra seat free to those who need it, even if it raised the cost of tickets by $30 or so. Canada does it, as people of such immense size are considered handicapped, and therefore, must be accommodated.

[RadicalTexan]

67. People recline because it's more comfy that sitting board straight, and/or they want to sleep

DUH.

I never understand people complaining about this. I am much more annoyed by the person behind me constantly grabbing the top of my seat (and, thus, my hair) when readjusting themselves, kicking the back of my seat, digging their knees into my back, etc.

If everyone reclined, everyone would be all sleepy and comfy. Why don't you all just shut up and try to sleep during the flight so it goes by faster?

Also, I am 5' and very uncomfortable on planes, so you regular sized people, never mind tall or fat people, DO have my sympathies. But remember, people overlook me, walk into me, and treat me like a child, and I can never reach the overhead compartment. So I don't have THAT much sympathy for you. Most things in the world are more designed for average-sized Western men than for anyone else, so if the only place you're extremely inconvenienced by non-ergonomic design is during a flight, congratulations.

[yodoobo]

86. now that I do hate

"by the person behind me constantly grabbing the top of my seat"

I hate that. So much so that I make a very conscious effort to never grab the front of a seat for support if someone is sitting in it.

[Hekate]

122. It's either grab the seat or fall into the lap of the person one is trying to pass...

... but again I ask you how is this the airlines' fault? Basically passengers not on an aisle seat need to restrict fluids for the duration of the flight -- getting a deep vein thrombosis is a small price to pay for being courteous to those around you.

Hekate

[yodoobo]

134. Well its not that hard

its one thing to brace yourself with the seat, although I try to use the overhead.

its another to grab the seat in front of you and pull it back and forth to the extent that it wakes the person.

I don't recall asserting that it was the airlines fault, although clearly a little more room would be a help.

[Hekate]

139. I'm too short to grab the overhead; in fact it never occurred to me that you could. Also...

It's not that you asserted that the airlines are at fault, it's that so many here believe the airlines are NOT at fault.

I'm addressing (sarcastically) those multitudes here who appear to believe that the allotted space per person is somehow a rational thing. The message I get over and over again in these airline threads is that it's all the fault of obese people (or as I have begun to phrase it, "all about the fatness"). You don't have room for your knees -- fat people. You can't recline your seat back -- fat people. Someone's body encroaching into your personal space -- clearly fat people.

Very few are placing the blame where it belongs: on the airline industry's business decision to reduce personal space to the point where it endangers not just our comfort but our health. It's beginning to remind me of Ford's business decision to not fix the Pinto's exploding gas tanks: they reckoned it would cost them less to pay off dead people's families than fix the problem with the cars.

I've had it up to the teeth with the issue, and the most recent threads are now sprinkled with my contrarian ideas, such as: if the issue is passengers taking up too much space sideways (fat people) and the solution to that is to make them pay for a second seat, then all the complaints I've been reading here stemming from people not having enough leg room need to be handled the same way--by making long-legged passengers purchase the seat in front of them. Tall people sitting behind me encroach into my personal space something fierce and they should pay for it.

Hekate

[salguine]

72. Really skinny people should only be charged half.

[Maru Kitteh]

73. And children shoul be charged even less. Infants 1/5 ticket price.

If they want to play it that way.

[JI7]

105. but they have to share the seat with another really skinny person

[yodoobo]

77. I don't think that 2 degrees of incline makes a difference

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. I agree

Good idea.

[yodoobo]

82. I suspect that few people in this thread fly

From reading these comments, you would think that the airlines give everyone lazyboy recliners.

We're talking about maybe 5 degrees of incline. Maybe 3 inches of space in the head region and 1/4 inch at the base.

I fly about 50,000 miles a year and am 5'9. I can never remember a recliner in front of me bothering me, nor anyone behind me complaining either. And no, I don't ask the guy behind if I can recline.

Shrug. There's other reason to hate air travel. Lots of other reasons. This one doesn't even register.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

116. agreed...my favorite in this thread is the person who talks of the 22 hour

flight...that doesn't exist unless they took the ONE TIME ONLY 777 flight from China to England...


sP

[uppityperson]

129. mine is the one

who says they will kick the back of my seat and complains when a child does that to them. Runs a close second to the 22 hr flight though.

[theboss]

90. Those seats recline, like, 6 inches

How is that bothering anyone? The issue is that they squeeze you in so tight in those seats that you can't scratch yourself.

I wills say this, the most miserable day of my life involved a flight to LA pinned next to a dude who had to top 325.

At least he didn't have the toe fungus, flip flops, and a peppers and onions pizza like the dude on the Pittsburgh - Atlanta flight did. Thankfully, that was a relatively quick flight.

[alarimer]

113. They recline far enough to break laptops if you have it on the tray table.

They also keep the tray tables from coming out so you can eat.

[Raineyb]

142. They also recline far enough to jam in you knees n/t

[theboss]

91. The deal: Next time, you sit next to Tubby and I will take your seat and not recline.

Deal?

[readmoreoften]

96. Airline seats are made to be reclined 3 degrees. What's next to complain about? Armrests?

Get over it. A passenger has full right to the use of their seat. It's not "your space" they're taking. It's the space they already paid for.

[madinmaryland]

101. Just take the train and stop your fucking complaining!

:hide:

[loyalkydem]

102. Agreed

I think the airlines need to be sued. I'm overweight and I have a fear of flying as it is, this is not going to make me want to give them a cent

[Kaleva]

106. I suffer from recurring blood clots, poor circualtion in the legs,

high blood pressure and am over 6'. Airline travel was hell and I'm sure it'd be worse now as I haven't flown in a number of years. If I do travel by air in the future, I'll probably have to pay for two seats so I can make the trip without grinding my teeth down to the gums.

[Hekate]

124. A majority of posters here seem to think a DVT is a small price for YOU to pay so THEY...

... are not inconvenienced by you having to move around. I am only 5'4" tall, not in tremendously good health, and I can tell you that flying is now completely hell.

I have about given up trying to explain the facts to those DUers who can't grasp that it is NOT the fault of individual passengers that the airlines have chosen to restrict our allotted space to that more suited to a pre-adolescent child. I have given up trying to explain the facts and have resorted to sarcastic potshots -- except to you. You get it -- it's a matter of HEALTH, and in the case of DVTs it's a matter of life and death.

Hekate

[Dr.Phool]

107. I was on a flight from Cleveland to Vegas one time.

I believe the plane was a DC-10. It had the 4 seats in the middle configuration. A couple got on, that were so fat, they couldn't fit into their assigned seats, and the flight attendants had to rearrange passengers so that these two could take up the four seats in the middle. And they filled them.

Any other plane, they would have needed their own rows. And, if you're talking about a sold out flight....

[LanternWaste]

108. Although I realize this is a somewhat obsequious reference to another thread

Although I realize this is a somewhat obsequious reference to another thread, I thought I'd add fuel to the fires again. :evilgrin:

Out of courtesy for those sitting behind me, I've never leaned back-- even to fall asleep (I figure if I can fall asleep at my desk at work, I can fall asleep anywhere). And on one particularly lojng flight, I realized the person sitting next to me was getting her legs scrunched by the gentleman in front of her. I could see that her slow-burn fuse was lit and sooner or later, ugliness would happen.

I gently tapped the shoulder of the gentleman in front of her and said, "sir, I realize the flight is long and uncomfortable, but this young lady next to me is feeling it pretty badly. Would you be so kind as to lift your seat up a wee bit for her?" He quickly obliged and offered his apologies to her.

Now, although I realize we have the "right" to demand as much comfort as we paid for and expect all the concomitant pampering, regardless of the comfort or discomfort of those around us (I learned that from this thread...), I also realize we have the right to be as polite and as genteel as we can possibly be to those around us. And in my own personal experience, I've found that civility and manner to all involved usually takes care of any and all around us-- at no more cost than a few less inches for our legs or our waists. It's certainly not a sacrifice on my part, merely dignified and civil on my part.

Although I cannot dictate directly who or what the airlines may or may not charge us, I can directly dictate my own civility, accommodating those around me to the best of my ability-- not because I expect any karmic or social quid-pro-quo, but simply because it's the right thing to do. And I must admit, it makes me feel a lot better about myself afterward than were I simply to rant about how "they" are taking away from "me".





After-Action Report: The young lady, the gentleman and I shared stories and highballs at the airport bar during our layover. We all bought a round of drinks for each other. The young lady and I wound up dating for three years. The gentleman was so drunk, he slept in an upright position for the last leg of the flight. I imagine that should she have "demanded" comfort, and he "demanded" what he paid for, things might not have turned out quite so amicably. :)

[KitchenWitch]

111. Sing it Sistah!

I am over 6 feet tall and have really long legs. Invariably I get the asshole who gets mad at me because he can feel MY KNEES through the seat when he reclines it. Excuse me, but where the hell am I SUPPOSED to put my legs? Behind my head?

[Hekate]

118. Then you should have to pay for the seat in front of you if your legs are too long. Seriesly...

Haven't you got the memo yet? These problems have NOTHING to do with the airlines' decision to pack adult human beings in like sardines, and everything to do with individual people's personal decisions to grow too tall or eat too much.

We need a one-size-fits-all policy because that always works so well. In your case, you are obviously too tall.

Hekate

[madeline_con]

135. There are ways to get someone to put their seat up.

You can find something to "accidently" spill or drop. :evilgrin:

[Buns_of_Fire]

136. After reading this thread, I can see that there are two factions who are NEVER going to play nice...

Therefore, I have decided upon a simple, elegant, and logical solution (which I'm surprised that no one here has mentioned).

We'll just remove the passenger seats. No seatbacks = no problems with seatbacks. See how simple that was?

Let me know if y'all have anything else you need a solution for.;-)


P.S. Yes, I know that at takeoff and landing there might be a certain amount of passenger-rolling-around, but we here at Nekkid Airlines ("We Have Nothing To Hide") consider that a BENEFIT, not a PROBLEM. Have a nice flight!

[xchrom]

137. then take it up with the airlines --

i pay for a seat to recline.

i don't pay for my seat mate to crowd me out of the seat i'm in next to them.

airline 'engineering' sounds like the source of your problem -- not the person paying a legitimate price for what they are entitled -- not for free -- but what they paid for in cash.

[1]

138. my simple approach to someone jamming their seat back onto my little legs...

*seat comes flying back onto my poor little unprotected legs inflight*

i immediately thrust both of my arms forward into the top of the seatback jamming into my legs with great effort *maybe twice* all the while screaming at the top of my lungs "HEY! MY FUCKING LEGS HERE! MY FUCKING LEGS, YOU INSENSITIVE COCKSUCKER!!!"

then i thrust both of my arms forward into the top of the seatback again and agan until i get that assholes attention.

if i am particularly annoyed, i will follow up with an "over the top" beating about the head and shoulders of the wrongdoer with an inflight magazine until the stewardess shows up to correct this wrong.

believe me. it only takes once to correct this bad behavior in those sitting in front of you...

[uppityperson]

150. Thank you.

rolling on the floor here

[smalll]

140. I LOVE THIS THREAD!

I'm not making much money myself, but reading all the self-important over-national-income-average wankers who have to fly around the country on a regular basis with a blue-ray (is that the right term) strapped to their ear the whole time (which makes them all look like Britney Spears at a lip-syncing pop concert, only way less hot) and about the cattle-car, dignity-denying aspect of it all...

I'm just so happy I'm too poor and too unimportant to fly! :)

[Skittles]

144. I'm a very considerate flyer

I check who is sitting behind me and only lean back if it's a child or a very small person so I mostly do not lean back :)

[mitchtv]

146. I had a woman with ong hair flip it over the back of her seat

during meal time, I was torn between dipping it in the food and asking her to move it, which I did.

[backscatter712]

147. There should be standards for minimum legroom and seat width in airliners.

Yeah, there's the comfort factor - nobody likes having a seat reclined into his lap, or some big person overflowing into his seat.

But there's a reason why these problems happen - because the airliners are moving the seats closer together, so they can cram more and more people into each plane - their profit trumps our comfort.

The problem is it isn't only about comfort. Too little legroom, and too much of your seat taken up by your big neighbor, and we start having medical problems - coach-class thrombosis, for example.

Really, there should be a mandatory minimum seat width and mandatory minimum legroom.

[XOKCowboy]

149. You want a law to mandate this?

Vote with your feet. Patronize (and pay for) airlines who have (sell) extra leg room seats like United. As long as airlines are on the edge of bankruptcy expect them to put as many people on planes as they can. That's their revenue source. The same seats have been in use for over 10 years on all of the airlines. To mandate that all airlines retrofit their planes with new seats means someone's gotta pay for it.

I'm all for what you propose. I travel a lot on airlines and anything to keep people out of my space is great with me. I'm just not willing to pay for it. I'm paying enough to fly as it is.

[backscatter712]

152. Adjusting the legroom isn't hard for an airline to do.

The airlines move the seats around in airplane cabins all the time, depending on whether they think they can get customers by enticing them with more legroom, or whether they think they can get away with cramming more passengers on each flight.

As far as width goes, changing that is harder, though some airliners have wider seats than others. In that case, yes, the seats would have to be replaced.

But adjusting the legroom (or "pitch" in airline lingo is easy - unbolt the seats and move them. The seats and the planes are designed to do this.