Have you seen V for Vendetta?

[BlooInBloo]

Inspired by:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x536984

I would've assumed that essentially every DUer (excepting Luddites, etc.) had seen it.

Confirm or refute, please.


(Editorial: If you haven't, you should.)

[Liberal In Texas]

1. Yep. Have a copy. And I'm thinking about buying a mask for the wall of my little office. n/t

[Bucky]

2. It's a silly shallow movie with a couple of interesting quotes & no grounding in democracy

I found it to be the cinematic equivalent of mild self mutilation. Long on mood, short on substance.

[BlooInBloo]

5. I'm gonna go out on a limb here....

Every movie that (a) a lot of people have seen, and (b) was made in the last 20 years - sucks, right?

[Richard Steele]

9. Maybe not. I shared that exact opinion at first. Please see # 8 below. nm

[BlooInBloo]

10. Possibly. I think film-snob-hate-all-films- liked-by-many is more likely...

... But I could be wrong.

[Richard Steele]

8. That's really what it was SUPPOSED to be, you know.

I had to see it and then read it again before
it finally clicked with me that it wasn't SUPPOSED
to be about "democracy" or "heroism". Just like characters in
the book, we've been hailing "V" as some sort of
freedom fighter; seeing what we WANTED to see in him.

"V" isn't supposed to be a hero; the fact that what he
did was probably good for his nation as a whole was
not what motivated him. It wasn't called "V for Freedom and Democracy",
and it took me awhile to realize the significance of that.

"V" was not a hero or patriot, he was a man with a score
to settle. Some people had messed him up very badly, took
away any chance he had at a normal life...and he therefore
spent YEARS devising an elaborate plan to not only kill
them all, but to completely destroy their life's work and their
legacies to the future.

Their "lifes work" just happened to be a fascist police state,
so that's what he destroyed. Inspiring the populace to start a revolution
was simply one of the means he used to achieve that end.

[Prophet 451]

12. Thank you

I think a lot of people missed that point. It reminds me a little of the people who hold Judge Dread as a hero, they seem to have missed the point. Dread is the fascist enforcer of a fascist system. V is a sociopathic terrorist, neither are meant to be heroes (although Dread's writers often forget that). They're meant to be contrasts. At one extreme, you have Norsefire and/or Dread; at the other is V. Neither extreme is somethign we should aspire to.

[Kelly Rupert]

15. Have you read the graphic novel?

In it, he's a pretty hardcore anarchist.

Nice analysis of the movie, BTW.

[Richard Steele]

28. Twice. That's what I was referring to when I said I "read it again".

As far as "movie adaptations" go, I think they
did a pretty darn good job of turning that into
a film. I've certainly seen much worse.

Was it an actual "novel"? I mean, before the film
and graphic novel?
I had just assumed the graphic novel came first;
if not, I'll have to read the novel as well.

[Kelly Rupert]

29. Ah, by "read it," I assumed you meant

the script, since his anarchist political leanings are (I thought) pretty clear in the graphic novel.

And it was never a book, as far as I know.

[Miss Chybil]

22. V was a terrorist.

He garners sympathy and support from the audience, but still in the end, he was nothing more than a terrorist. I actually liked the movie for its "off-centeredness." It was fun to watch, but I don't think blowing people up is the answer to anything in real life.

[Nevernose]

23. No, no , no, no.

You're wrong, but you have the right reasoning.

V was out on a vendetta mission, sure. But who says revenge is wrong? If Simon Wiesnthal had gone on a post-war sniper rampage, as opposed to a quest to bring war criminals to justice, would there have been that much objection?

And is it such a bad thing to devote one's life to destroying a bad work, such as V did?

I also think you forget the fact that in the book, they were opposed to the fascist state before they were given a need for revenge. So revenge may have been the motivation, but not the impetus.

Then there's the counterculture themes that weren't in the movie, specifically the LSD scene. The only way the OTHER hero of the book, the cop, can trace V is by turning on, tuning in, and dropping out. He still does his job, but is at least feels guilty for doing so, and it all works out in the end.

And that's what makes this literature/art. The fact that we're unsure of the characters motivation in a good way (and not in a Stallone's "Cobra" way), and the fact that we question what we've seen, makes it good. The best art/literature is the stuff that leaves you thinking years later. Much like "V for Vendetta."

[Richard Steele]

38. I never said that "revenge was wrong", I'm saying right or wrong is only in the mind of the viewer.

At least in context of this film, that is.

I was trying to say that "right and wrong" don't enter
into it for "V". Right and wrong are irrelevant to him,
he's simply FIXATED on revenge to the exclusion of any
moral considerations.

"V" didn't spend his life destroying a bad work, he spent
his life destroying HIS ENEMIES' work. The fact that it
was "bad" was not a moral concern of his, it was simply
an aspect of the situation that he used to his advantage
in carrying out his plans for complete & total revenge.

If they had built a combination flower shop/homeless shelter
instead of a totalitarian police state, he would have blown
that up just the same, and still without concern for anyone
else's opinion about whether it was "wrong".

And I think that's what makes it a good film. "V" seems like
a very specific, defined character, but he's actually the
complete OPPOSITE. He's faceless, his past unknown, and the
good and bad of his motivations/actions balance to neutrality.
Ultimately, he's a nearly perfect BLANK SLATE, and the only
things we see on that slate are things that WE project onto it
from within ourselves.

That's a pretty impressive fictional character accomplishment, IMHO.



(BTW, KUDOS for that backhanded Stallone reference- I'm gonna
have to remeber that for future use!:thumbsup: :rofl: :thumbsup:)

[Liberal In Texas]

27. You've made 3 points in your "review"...

A) Silly shallow.
--- Silly shallow to me at least is: Let's Go to Prison, Snakes on a Plane, or American Pie: Naked Mile.

B) ...a couple of interesting quotes...
--- so interesting quotes turn you off, or was that actually a positive remark? But it just had "a couple of interesting quotes," let alone a movie have more than a couple of them. Let's see...
"Make my day." "Hasta la vista, baby." "Here's looking at you, kid." "Tomorrow is another day." "There's no place like home." Nope, wouldn't want to see those movies.

C) ...no grounding in demorcracy...
--- Excuse me, but this was a movie about a totalitarian government. The idea was to usurp that totalitarian government first by the vigilante and then enlisting the will of the people.

D) ...mild self mutilation (sic). A phrase that is loaded with imagery, but has no meaning. Like a lot of RW talking points.

E)...long on mood, short on substance...
---Any movies last year that you found longer on substance with all that mood? Again, a phrase loaded with images but doesn't mean anything.

V was a terrific movie. I'm sorry you didn't like it.

[diane in sf]

3. I just saw it last night. Now I wish I saw it in the theater

so I could've cheered with the crowd while the fascists were being killed and exploded.

[sce56]

4. It was a great movie! I especialy like the added interviews where they compare it to the Patriot Act

[Prophet 451]

6. Pretty good but not as good as the book

V is much more ambiguous and much more obviously a terrorist in the book. Also, the book gets into the wider questions of freedom vs order and anarchy vs control which the film only touches on briefly.

[otherlander]

7. No, but I read the graphic novel.

And from what I've heard about the movie, I think the graphic novel had a lot more depth, because it was a work of art in its own rite and the original message from the 1980's wasn't distorted by trying to fit it to the current political situation.

But I did see on YouTube the speech V gave when he held up the broadcasting station with a detonater, and all he really says is, "Let's kick some fascist ass", whereas in the book it's really a great speech about individual responsibility vs. bad leadership. This speech, absent from the movie, gives an explanation of sorts for why V never actually kills the leader of Norsefire, although he does kill those who carried out his orders.

[BlooInBloo]

11. Comic book.

It's fucking hilarious listening to grown-ups try to justify their enjoyment of comic books by spraying a thin veneer of maturity over them, calling them "graphic novels".

:rofl:

Do it again! clapclapclap! Do it again!

[Prophet 451]

13. It's a trade term

"Comic book" is a serialised story, "trade paperback" is a collection of comic books, "graphic novel" is a really big comic book with a self-contained story. X-Men is a comic book, League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen is a trade paperback, V For Vendetta is a graphic novel.

While I can understand the urge to mock the pretentious, there really is a difference.

[BlooInBloo]

18. Whatever gets you through the night.

[Prophet 451]

20. That would be scotch

Y'know, there's a difference between mocking the pretentious and just being a jerk to those who like to use the correct terms.

[BlooInBloo]

21. I like to kill two birds with one stone whenever possible.

[Feron]

31. Prophet is correct.

And hey I read comic books. There's no shame in that.

If you unwrinkle your nose and open your mind, you'll find that there are great stories in comics. It's merely a different way of presenting the story. They aren't all childish or solely for kids.

As for V for Vendetta, I enjoyed the book and movie equally. However I do think that you have to read the book to better appreciate the movie.

[BlooInBloo]

34. Where on earth did the idea that I have a problem with comic books come from?

It's the shame-leading-to-faux-maturity that I can't stand from the weak-minded. There's no shame in liking comics any more than any other fluff piece of life - I enjoy numerous such, as do many.

[otherlander]

14. It's kinda big to be a comic book.

Plus, do you think a little kid would understand the plot?

[BlooInBloo]

16. (shrug) A big comic book then. And it's not complicated. Grown-ups are just dumb.

I would've understood it completely at 10, as would any reasonable person.

[rebel with a cause]

17. Graphic novels are different than comic books.

They can be called books with lots of pictures, or novel long comic books. They are probably more sophisticated than a comic book. I don't read them personally, but have seen them as those in my family sometimes reads them. They also read regular books.

As for V, saw it when it came out on DVD and liked it. I cannot go to the movies so just saw "Children of Man" on DVD and liked it even better.

[BlooInBloo]

19. Only to those with a fragile ego.

[otherlander]

24. Ego... I had one of those!

It told me things like 'you are you' and 'you should sweep the floor' and 'you should buy a sandwich for lunch'. I think it was made of sugar... glucose or something.

Then a cactus made the glucose go away. And now it turns out that everything is made of pure energy and has angels inside of the neutrons and time is an illusion.

[BlooInBloo]

25. Touche. lol!

[Kelly Rupert]

30. Then what do you call those who insist on correcting others on the term?

;)

[BlooInBloo]

32. Noble? Bulwark of Rationality? God's Defender of the Intellect? I'm open. :)

[Kelly Rupert]

33. Carry on, mensam defensor dei.

That is right, isn't it? Or would that be ingenium? Accusative or genitive? Oh, my Latin is so shaky...

[BlooInBloo]

35. Onward Christian Soldiers.... rofl! My latin's nonexistent - cept for philosophy and Spanish-related

[sakabatou]

26. Seen it in theaters with my older brother

We both loved it, but he didn't like that you couldn't see V's mouth moving when he spoke.

[davidwparker]

36. V is an excellent movie. I saw it on pay-per-view. It's on my list to buy.

[LSK]

37. Yes n/t