if Detroit Electric can make a $25K electric car- why can't gm? or chrysler? or ford?

[dysfunctional press]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10206089-54.html

Detroit Electric, an auto brand once favored by Thomas Edison, is mounting a 21st century comeback with electric cars aimed at U.S. soccer moms and Chinese city dwellers.

The company on Monday is expected to announce a partnership with Malaysian auto manufacturer Proton Holdings to introduce an all-electric sedan next year.

Detroit Electric will offer a compact four-door, based on an existing Proton model, with a range of 180 kilometers (110 miles), for between $24,000 and $26,000. An extended-range option will go 320 kilometers, or about 200 miles, and cost $4,000 to $5,000 more. The company also plans to make a hatchback.

The car will use lithium-polymer batteries supplied by a Korean manufacturer and run on an engine developed by Detroit Electric's Netherlands-based engineering team...

[Stinky The Clown]

1. I bet "gm? or chrysler? or ford?" can.

I betcha.

[dysfunctional press]

40. my hope is definitely in their corner.

we've been a long-time chrysler family, as we have lots of extended relatives(cousins, aunt, uncles, and beyond)that work/worked at the assembly plant in belvedere. the car i learned to drive in was a 1972 dodge charger se 440/4bbl...it was also my parents first new car. it went fast. when i went to college, i got the hand-me down cordoba w/corinthean leather...and i'm currently on my third second-hand dodge caravan from a family member- it was my uncle's, and i bought it from my cousin to help her pay for his and my aunt's funerals(they died seperately, but fairly close together and from different causes).

[Taitertots]

2. How low are willing to accept American wages going? NT

[Kalyke]

3. Um... where have you been?

GM - Volt

http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20090202&Category=AUTO01&ArtNo=902020354&Ref=AR

Ford

:shrug:

Actually, I should say, "Where has the consumer been?"

I realize that on this board, many here seem to believe that millions of Americans are FLOCKING out to Toyota to buy a Prius, but, the real numbers show that isn't the truth.

The best-selling automobile, month after month, is the Ford F-Series. Trucks, yes, trucks - not hybrids or electrics. People think most hybrids are ugly and cost way too much when you can get a much better looking car for less.

[dysfunctional press]

5. um...you might want to check the projected price again- that's NOT a $25K car.

next.

[Kalyke]

7. And that Detroit whatever car is ugly as sin.

At least the GM and Ford cars don't look like something Glenda the Good Witch would travel in.

BTW, the Ford car is $27K - just $2,000 more than your threshhold.

NEXT, yourself.

Oh...

Ford’s redesigned 2010 Fusion sedan will come with a starting price of $19,270 for the gasoline-only version and $27,270 for the gasoline-electric hybrid model, the automaker says.

The 2010 Fusion will arrive in showrooms late this month, and analysts and reviewers have already praised it.

Ford said at the Los Angeles auto show in November, where it introduced the Fusion and Milan models, that the hybrids will have best-in-class fuel economy.

Last week, Ford said the Fusion hybrid “delivers 41 mpg in the city and 36 mpg on the highway, topping the Toyota Camry hybrid by 8 mpg in the city and 2 mpg on the highway.”


http://www.ajc.com/services/content/ajccars/content/stories/2009/03/27/ford_fusion_2010.html

[EOTE]

10. That is a hybrid, not an all electric car. The Volt is a plug-in hybrid...

but it's nowhere near 25k. I like the Fusion Hybrid, but it's not what was addressed in the OP.

[Kalyke]

15. Did you read the article?

That is why Ford decided to pursue a pure battery-powered electric vehicle in tandem with the plug-in hybrid it was developing. The production vehicle being developed with Magna will be based on the new global Focus platform, due out in 2010. The electric version will have no gasoline motor, but will be limited to a range of 100 miles on a single charge -- enough, Ford says, because most motorists in America average less than 40 miles a day.

The Fusion is a plug-in hybrid - the Focus (or Focus-like) is an electric.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/20/autos/ford_electric/

That article doesn't list price, but I can imagine that it's not far out of your range, especially since the Ford Transit Connect - the all electric work van is only $21,000.

2010 Ford Transit Connect Prices: Setting competitive price points is tough for any automaker in today’s fast-moving global economy, but the 2010 Ford Transit Connect will start at $21,475 before options.

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2010-ford-transit-connect.htm

[EOTE]

18. I still don't see your point.

This plug-in Focus is meant to compete with the Volt. Which most likely means that it's going to be priced similarly to the Volt at 40K+. And you seem to be confused regarding the Ford Transit Connect. The gas version starts at around 21k. If you'd read the article you provided, you'd see that the all electric version comes out in 2012, and they say nothing regarding the price.

[dysfunctional press]

13. what he said.

eote, that is.

[NickB79]

52. Ugly as sin? It looks JUST LIKE the production run of the 2010 Chevy Volt

The picture you posted is of the prototype Volt, never meant to be produced for sale.

The "real" Chevy Volt photo gallery can be found here: http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/. There have been some major revisions.

The production version of the Volt looks very similar to the all-electric car pictured in the OP.

[harun]

9. Nor is it even for sale.

[amandabeech]

20. Sometimes you can't get what you want on what you earn,

unless you're willing to have it built in a country that does not enforce work related or environmental rules, or is a totalitarian dictatorship.

Why don't you ask Toyota and Honda why their hybrids don't cost $25,000 or less.

Or you could wait until so many people want to buy them that they can be mass produced at your price level.

Or you could try to form a union so that you could be paid decently.

[DJ13]

4. Because the Big 3 business model depends on options to make money

Ever stop to think about the way vehicles have morphed into Cadillac clones over the last 20 years?

Try and buy a car with "base" equipment off the lot.

The car companies became addicted to the profit margins from the options they equip every car and truck with, much like the banks no longer are content with just making money from the interest they charge on loans, now they claim poverty if they cant sell derivatives to make money on top of the interest from the loan itself.

[Oregone]

6. $25K is super expensive for me as is

[dysfunctional press]

19. consider the cost of gasoline over the life of the car...

the money that you spend every month on gas could all be applied toward a car payment.

plus- any tax incentives there may be for buying an electric car.

[Oregone]

21. Screw that.

If I can't buy a car with cash on hand, Im not buying it. Cars lose 5 grand the minute they leave the lot. Only a fool buys a brand new car.

I don't know what type of lifestyle can afford a brand new $25 K car. Good for them. Ill wait a few years and buy it for $10 K off of them.

[dysfunctional press]

23. i've always bought used cars as well...but that probably won't be as good a deal with electrics...

as batteries would most likely require replacing, and they're generally the big-ticket item for the car.

btw- i don't begrudge the people who ARE willing to buy new cars- it's usually exactly what they want, it's new, and they're willing to pay a little extra to get that. it's a lot harder(not impossible) to get exactly the car you want when you buy used.

[Oregone]

30. Thats a scary thought

That these new cars wont be effective on a resale market due to the breakdown of their components. That would devastate the larger portion of people who shouldn't be buying new cars. Though, Id imagine a battery shouldn't be the most expensive thing in the world, and if its bad in a car, its resale would probably suffer.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

8. For many of us a key issue is air conditioning

Which can ruin the distance between recharging

[Mugu]

12. You are exactly correct.

I won't have a vehicle without A/C and heat.

[dysfunctional press]

14. when i was a kid, we had 4/60 air-conditioning in our car...

4 windows down, 60 mph.
the car i currently have, a dodge caravan, has a/c- but i rarely use it.

[ContinentalOp]

25. Uh, yeah if I lived in a place with a record temperature of 101 I wouldn't use ac either.

:eyes:

Your boast is only slightly better than the one from the Canadian :P

[dysfunctional press]

33. apparently, you've never experienced summer in chicago.

otherwise- you'd probably do a better job of knowing what you're talking about.

[ContinentalOp]

41. Sorry, I was looking at Elgin.

The Chicago record is 105 in 1934. The downtown L.A. record is 112 in 1990. Although I know that we hit 117 or something like that in Woodland Hills (near where I live) a couple of summers ago. Anyway I was just joking around, hence the :P face.

[Oregone]

37. So if 101 is comfy enough not to use AC for you,

Is that what you set your AC to? You just like bringing it down from 120 to 101? Right?

[ContinentalOp]

42. Actually, I've only owned a car with functioning A/C since this past July.

But yeah, if I have it and it's above 100 I'm sure as hell going to use it. If someone from Texas told me I was a wimp though I would accept that because it's really not that hot here in L.A.

[Oregone]

44. What Im asking is...

do you just bring the temperature down to 100, or do you take it down to the 70s?

[ContinentalOp]

46. No, 70 is too cold for me.

And I don't really drive long enough distances. I don't know long you would have to drive to bring a 120 degree car interior down to 70 on a hot day. I honestly don't think my car would even do it.

[Oregone]

22. Its called a window

A nation of princesses

[ContinentalOp]

24. LOL. This, from a Canadian?

:eyes:

I'll give up my AC, you can give up your heater. How's that?

[Oregone]

28. Im not a Canadian

And I grew up and worked (construction) regularly in the 105+ degree summer heat. From job to job, we used a window for an air conditioner.

People have lost all perspective these days. Most homes didn't use to have dishwashers. And now, people can't live without them. Luxury items have become necessities, which all leads to the insatiable American demand for a higher, and yet higher, standard of living. There is a price to pay for that demand (so its tough for me to listen to people complain about mileage and air conditioners in the same thread).

[Deja Q]

27. Heat stroke - never leave home without it.

:popcorn:

[Oregone]

29. Oh bullshit

If you can't take a ride in a car without getting heat stroke, its probably time for you to migrate up north. Its a fucking luxury, and one with a cost.

[Bluebear]

34. Come to Nevada in August and try that, he-man

[Oregone]

36. If you live in a place where you have to burn up fossil fuels to stay "comfortable"

How can you be serious about...going forward on anything these days? Oh thats right, electricity is the magical green energy. We make more of it every time the Fed also decides to print more money.

BTW, do you just try to keep the heat off a bit (cooling the car down to a solid 95 degrees), or do you like to run cool at 75 or so?

[ContinentalOp]

43. I know you weren't responding to me,

but I average 46mpg and use the A/C whenever I feel like it. Once everyone else stops driving trucks and SUVs maybe I'll feel guilty about using a little A/C now and then.

[Oregone]

45. "Once everyone else stops driving trucks and SUVs maybe I'll feel guilty about using a little A/C"

And once you stop using your A/C, Im sure people will feel guilty about their SUVs....Hell, torture in the US is alright. We will feel guilty once our opponents stop beheading people. :) Relative morality...

But 46 MPG aint bad at all

[ContinentalOp]

48. I don't know why I'm arguing with you about this.

I actually am not a big fan of running the A/C, I didn't have working A/C in my car for years, and I'm pretty much cold if the temperature dips down below 80. :P I just thought it was funny that both of the people who responded "roll down your windows" live pretty far north. BTW, cars get worse mileage in colder climates so maybe it evens out!

[Oregone]

50. I don't live that far north

I live well south of a lot of cities in Washington. This little island here dips pretty low--its the Florida of Canada. :) And Ive only been here a few months actually. I grew up accustomed to Southern Oregon heat, and believe it or not, it gets real damn hot and dry there (well over 100, though that may not be hot compare to you, but I also labored and drove in it with no AC for years). I understand AC is nice, but I just always see it as a luxury more than a necessity (people lived with far less, in far more extreme times, and still do). We have an extreme crisis in front of us, and fretting about luxuries isn't going to get the job done.

[dysfunctional press]

51. i never feel guilty about using a/c, in the car or in the house...

i just don't like the drag on the engine and the gas mileage when i use it in the car.
and to be honest- this is our/my first time having a house with central air- and when i run it, i'm more concerned about the cost of the electricity to our checkbook than to the planet...but then, we don't have any kids. :shrug:

[ContinentalOp]

11. I am a big electric car booster and am in no way a strictly "buy american" type.

I drive a Japanese car. But uh... designed in the Netherlands, manufactured in Malaysia, batteries from Korea, and they have the nerve to call this Detroit Electric!? That's pretty sleazy. No thanks. I'll wait until the Nissan electrics are out.

[hugo_from_TN]

16. They can't get the UAW to accept Malaysian wages.

[nonconformist]

17. I'm sure they could, if they paid their workers slave wages or exported the labor.

Is that really what you want?

[Deja Q]

26. If $12/hr is to become a "too expensive" wage for even the best worker, a $25k car will NEVER sell.

[hendo]

31. First off

Protons are POSes, Second, it isn't that they can't its that they don't want to. And, Americans arent buying electric cars so long as gas is this cheap. We need gas to be over the $4 price point again.

[dysfunctional press]

35. first off-

at this point, there aren't any electric cars for them to buy- only a quite a bit of interest and a lot of promises.
as for the price of gas- once bitten, twice shy as the saying goes- most americans know that the days of permanent $4 gas(and more) are not too far off, anyway.

[hendo]

38. People quickly forgot after the oil crisis of the 70s, and they will forget again. NT

[dysfunctional press]

39. i don't know about that...it feels a lot different this time around.

like i said- once bitten, twice shy, and this time around wasn't about pissed-off arabs turning off the spigot.
more and more people are aware of things like global climate change and even 'peak oil'.
when electrics come out as full-size/speed autos at affordable prices, i think that they'll do VERY well, for the companies that can get it right.

[hendo]

49. this time around was quickly written off as wall-street greed

especially here.

The public is already beginning to forget. Give it another 3 months.

[hendo]

47. additionally

there are electric cars on the market to purchase. Just not at the 25k price point.

[Stevenmarc]

32. Maybe we need to look at the sale of electric cars differently

"Shai Agassi Wants to Sell Electric Cars Like Cell Phones"

"Yesterday we told you about Shai Agassi's plan to put an electric car in every driveway. Today, he told us just how he plans to do it -- by using the same business model that put a cell phone in every pocket.

The Silicon Valley entrepreneur's latest venture, Project Better Place, proposes selling consumers "a complete commute solution" where one monthly fee would cover the cost of the car and the energy to fuel it.

"It's a subscription system much like cellular providers have," Agassi said today in an interview with Wired news. "You sign up for a certain number of miles a month.""

"If you go for four years, we'll subsidize your car or your fuel," he said. "If you go for six years, we'll give you a free car."


http://blog.wired.com/cars/2007/10/selling-electri.html


http://www.betterplace.com/

[JCMach1]

53. PROTON= FAIL

Terrible, terrible cars...

[JCMach1]

54. PROTON= FAIL

Terrible, terrible cars...