"Autism doesn't exist" - - - WTF?????

[Taverner]

I just heard this talking to a Repuke (yeah, I know I gotta stop doing that) - basically she was saying that Autism is just a result of "bad parenting" and that the kid just needs discipline.

Um, please, WHAT THE FUCK?????

I didn't even want to start on ADHD and Aspbergers.

[gratuitous]

1. Source, please?

Because this sounds an awful lot like a line of argument that hate radio chatterer Michael Savage was peddling some weeks ago.

[Taverner]

3. The source was an idiot woman I talked to while on the stairmaster

Sorry :shrug:

[gratuitous]

8. Ah . . . thanks

It's tough to keep up with all these things; I'm guessing she's a regular listener to the Savage program. Sometimes the only response that comes to my mind is, "Don't be any more ridiculous than you absolutely have to be." Then reach over and turn off her machine. Wait no, don't do that. She could crack her noggin on the machine and damage it.

:evilgrin:

[Taverner]

13. But that would be fun to watch...

Hey, I'm a bastard! What can I say?

[gratuitous]

26. Yeah, but the poor machine

And the gym would have to replace it. Although that would stimulate the economy . . .

No.

No, don't do it.

Hmmm.

No.

NO!

:dilemma:

No, no, NO, I say!

[ColbertWatcher]

23. Hmm.

Do you remember when John Travolta's son died? There was a whole mess about what caused his death, etc. But, hiding in all of that was the cult of $cientology's denial that Travolta's kid had autism.

Apparently, the cult denies that it exists.

Perhaps you were exercising next to a cultist?

[sakabatou]

66. As someone who has Asperger's

I'd like to take my clue-by-four to that woman.

[damntexdem]

12. It's more-general RW bullshit.

Hey, if a disease, a disability, or a condition doesn't exist, then we shouldn't spend money to do anything about it. So let's just define a lot of problems out of existence.

[aikoaiko]

2. I think your Republican friend took a comedy routine too seriously.

I think Dennis Leary went on a riff in one of his books where someone, not so bright, might come to the conclusion that Autism doesn't exist.

[Taverner]

5. Or watched too much O'Reilly - didn't he say something just as dumb earlier?

[KamaAina]

22. It was Savage Weiner

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=387&topic_id=787&mesg_id=787

So I guess that means I don't exist. Ceci n'est pas une poste... :eyes:

[HughBeaumont]

4. Many Repukes don't think ANY of it is real.

They blame it on kids not being swatted enough by their parents.

Then again, these are probably the same people that think "teh gay" can be "cured", like the flu or something.

[Taverner]

9. One fun little stat I throw at those types

Every single serial killer was spanked as a child. Some were given worse, but all were spanked.

[rebel with a cause]

40. A hole in your logic

Not every child that is spanked becomes a serial killer. ;)

A better argument to those that swear by my republicanism and religion is that the Bible does not advocate spanking a child. The quote that sparing the rod spoils the child does not refer to spanking. Rather it refers to the rod that was used to guide the animal, not strike it. The true meaning is a child without guidance/discipline becomes lost in its way. JMHO

[Taverner]

42. Are you sure? That is one thread in common with all serial killers...

Along with "killed animals for fun"

I'm not saying there's a link but...

[rebel with a cause]

59. Yeah, I am sure.

I was spanked/beat and I have never killed anyone. I know a lot of people who were spanked and/or beaten and the same can be said for them. Most of us do not even believe in any capital punishment when it comes to raising children.

I worked with abused children and those with behavior problems. Some of them were abused in ways that did not include spanking/beating and some of them I believe could become serial killers. One boy that I worked with had been sexually abused (in some strange ways different than what people would think of) but had not been physically punished/abused. He was perfectly capable of killing and had tried to do so several times before the age of thirteen. He was a sociopath and had possibly been socialized to be one.:shrug: Strange kid, and I do mean strange to the max!!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Reminds me of those people who blame vaccines.

[Taverner]

10. To be fair, there was some convincing evidence earlier indicating such

But that evidence has since been debunked...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. To be fair, no there wasn't.

It was always as loony as blaming bad parenting.

[Taverner]

14. Skeptic magazine had a good article showing both sides

The evidence for was just as researched - it was just flawed

This is why we have to double check our work and be as objective and empirical as possible.

[Fleshdancer]

7. holy sh*t

:wtf:

I hope like hell this is just the thought of one lonely nut and not an actual trend. If you talk to her again, ask what discipline Sarah Palin's baby needs. Perhaps this will stop her from being a such a sick, ignorant idiot.

[Caliman73]

Actually, the Palin baby has Down's Syndrome...

It is caused by and extra 23rd chromosome and results in mental retardation and typically other health effects. Autism is a very different condition. It is typically characterized by the individuals inability to integrate and express sensory information similar to the average population. It is marked by severe social deficits and behavior challenges. It's cause is not clearly known, but studies are finding a genetic component. Many people still believe that Autism, and Psychiatric disorders are learned and under the person's complete control. Unfortunately it is a stigma that continues to follow people around despite studies that have shown otherwise.

[KamaAina]

27. Bible Spice says she has a cousin or something who has a child with autism

or she can see one from her house or whatever, which makes her a great big advocate for the cause. :eyes:

[lumberjack_jeff]

28. LOL n/t

[Fleshdancer]

32. d'oh!

For some strange reason, I thought her baby had Autism. :blush:

Sorry for the mix up.

[Sal Minella]

33. A mother of an autistic person has a deeply-informative article in Salon

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2009/03/26/bauer_autism/index.html

Any thought I had of "bad parenting" contributing to autism was erased by this article. Bauer has been through much anguish with her son (now an adult).

[lumberjack_jeff]

35. That was the most depressing goddamn thing I've every read in my life. n/t

[FloridaJudy]

61. Very sad, but true

Two of the best mothers I know have autistic children. Any notion that this is imaginary or due to "bad parenting" is ridiculous. Their children's problems were heart-breaking enough when they were small, but with adolescence they've become soul-searing. It's bad enough to have a two-year-old who acts out: when it's a 200 pound teen gone out of control, it's downright scary. As one of the moms put it when her sweet, dreamy autistic son turned thirteen he got "Dark. Very, very dark".

As a society we're poorly equipped to handle the storms of ordinary adolescents. Throw in a neurological or psychiatric abnormality, and it's a disaster.

I invite any jerk who thinks an autistic child just needs a "firm hand" to spend a day - better yet a week - trying to care for one. I think he or she would rapidly be disabused of his opinions. Of course I wouldn't want to inflict this course of action on an autistic kid without strict supervision. Autistic kids aren't responsible for being difficult: creeps are.

[applegrove]

15. The right are so blatant with the myths they spread. People like Rush

think their followers will believe anything. And apparently they will.

[wyldwolf]

16. Many conservatives don't believe in things like ADD

:shrug:

[Sal Minella]

34. "Nothing wrong with that kid that having 12 or 15 little siblings won't cure" eh?

Or at least render invisible.

[NewMoonTherian]

54. I'd go so far as to say ADD/ADHD don't exist...

or at least that they are vasty overdiagnosed, but autism? That's a profoundly ignorant remark on the part of someone who's never interacted with an autistic person. That would've been a good time to politely end the conversation, because there's no way of communicating with someone like that.

[wyldwolf]

60. then you'd be wrong

[MonteLukast]

17. I wouldn't say autism doesn't exist.

But I do think that a lot of smart, quirky kids who don't fit in, are called Asperger's or autistic when they're not.

Being labeled on the autism spectrum can have serious implications for your ability to get an education or a job years later. Having a reputation for poor people skills-- deserved or undeserved-- can be an employment death sentence; even low-wage retail jobs are potentially closed off for these people. Even if you're not actually ASD! -- if you simply resemble one, you'll be tossed in the boneyard too: for educators are too stressed and under too much time and parental pressure to exercise normal human judgment in many cases.

I think, in fact, that this rash of ASD diagnoses are in fact conscious attempts to create a new economic underclass. The whole point of having an underclass is to have a guaranteed pool of downtrodden, marginalized people from which you can make do the worst jobs for the worst pay. And the beauty of the autism spectrum is, no matter how much education you do get, employers won't care. Emotional intelligence-- or the appearance of it-- trumps IQ for more and more people in charge: it's a handy-dandy excuse for not honoring somebody's hard work and educational investment.

*donning my asbestos suit*
:hide:

[lumberjack_jeff]

24. Autism Spectrum Disorders are an epidemic.

But it is not due to changing diagnoses. There really are more people affected by it today than there were 10,20,50 years ago.

... and they really are affected. The diagnostic criteria for having ASD are pretty clear. If you present the markers, to the necessary degree, you have an ASD.

It's not a conspiracy to create more poor people.

[MonteLukast]

30. It's a lot easier and clearer with the more severe items on the spectrum.

Asperger's is where it gets dangerous and murky.

Many ADD symptoms, too, are astonishingly close to the more annoying end of normal human behavior. The difference between calling a kid a nerd and calling him neurologically dysfunctional could be the difference between earning a living wage and not.

I think a lot of ASD symptoms, and maybe even cases, would simply disappear if we fixed our educational system; if we got rid of zero tolerance, if we were more equipped to deal with natural personality differences, if we had more teachers giving out individual attention; and if we got parents to chillthehellout.


None of which is going to be easy. These problems feed off each other.

[Taverner]

39. I honestly think many folks in the Autism spectrum are much better described with a Venn Diagram

Some Aspies have ADHD, some don't

Some ADHD'ers have Autism, some don't....

And in many case, like you said, the problems feed off each other

[Odin2005]

37. IMO there is no epidemic, it's because a lot more of us high functioning autistics are...

...being diagnosed. Remember that Asperger's Syndrome only became an accepted diagnosis in the US in 1994. Also, a lot of "low" functioning autistics that would have been getting other labels, in some cases just getting a "mental retardation" label (which is total BS, IMO most "low functioning" autistics don't really have mental retardation, they just can't communicate what they think so people just assume they have a low IQ, or, more insidiously, people ignore or don't recognize their attempts to communicate because of their own biases as non-autistics about communication).

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. Everyone is welcome to their own opinions, harmful though they may be.

But not their own facts.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=autism-rise-driven-by-environment

California's sevenfold increase in autism cannot be explained by changes in doctors' diagnoses and most likely is due to environmental exposures, University of California scientists reported Thursday.

The scientists who authored the new study advocate a nationwide shift in autism research to focus on potential factors in the environment that babies and fetuses are exposed to, including pesticides, viruses and chemicals in household products.

[Odin2005]

49. Autism is genetic, that is a fact. I know it is because it runs obviously on my mom's side.

The increase in California is easy to explain, geeks going to Silicon Valley, hooking up, and having geeky kids. There is nothing on my mom's side that suggests a environmentally-caused pattern, it is clearly genetic and 100% genetic. And in my family's case is associated with a near-savant-like aptitude for arithmetic that also runs on my mom's side.

[lumberjack_jeff]

55. There are clearly both environmental and genetic components. n/t

[Odin2005]

58. I honestly don't see any evidence of enviromental cause.

IMO it's just that we are more sensitive to things in the environment for sensory reasons and so autistic kids are more likely to "act out" and have a melt-down. For course parents, most of whom assume correlation = causation them start mistakingly think it the crap in the environment causing the autism when it's just affecting the behavior of the individual negatively and thus giving an indication that something is "off" with the kid.

[FloridaJudy]

64. I've met a lot of really smart, really successful people

Who I suspect had mild Asberger's. They function spectacularly well in some areas, but they're awkward in social situations. Some have speculated that Einstein was one: I doubt this. I think he was just absent-minded, as many really bright people are. His mind was probably on more important things than whether his shoes matched. But anyone who's familiar with Newton can spot the signs. He revolutionized mathematics but was totally inept in most social situations.

It's a spectrum. For those on the high end, it can even confer some advantages - just as those who are just a little bit bipolar or schizophrenic are often more creative than their neuro-average peers. But for those who have the full-blown disorder it's a catastrophe.

[MonteLukast]

65. They even suspected Thomas Jefferson was one...

... a few years ago.

Really... Thomas Jefferson?! *snerk*

Instead of the way we've been going about it, I think we should question what makes a person successful in social situations in the first place. All too often, in practice, it's about making the choice never to be your best (I'm not talking about being disruptive or odd for its own sake) in order to avoid making people uncomfortable.
How many studies have said, if you want to relate to others and build rapport, first you must be similar?

How about relating to people WITHOUT either you or them satisfying an unconscious similarity requirement? THAT, to me, seems closer to the true meaning of empathy.

Remember, prejudice and discrimination are, at heart, all about the need to be emotionally comfortable.

[TZ]

18. Proof once more than Repukes are often scientifically illiterate.

They've found goddamn genetic defects/specific genes associated with autism. Moron.

[Fovea]

19. It is just as likely that their attitude is the result

of not enough fatal beatings as a child.

[Lilith Velkor]

20. I got the shit beat out of me on a daily basis

Guess what? Yep, still autistic.

Or maybe "artistic," as in a performance art piece now in its 5th decade. Heh.

[lumberjack_jeff]

21. I wish I had the luxury of being a complete fucking idiot like stupid stairmaster lady. n/t

[RedCappedBandit]

25. No, republicanism is the result of bad parenting.

[Jim__]

29. Wasn't that a claim of Michael Wiener (Savage)? - n/t

[MonteLukast]

31. You'd be surprised at how many emotional problems are caused...

... by having an embarrassing name.

"Wee-ner" or "Whi-ner"... there simply is no way out of that one.

It's kinder in Germany, where it means "from Vienna". I'd change the W to a V if it were me, and call myself Viener or Viner.

[Odin2005]

36. This Aspie to that Puke asshole : GO FUCK YOURSELF.

Most of the problems in my life comes from assholes like this who accuse me of "just making excuses" for "being lazy and undisciplined" or some such BS.

[Taverner]

38. Agree with you 100%

Especially on the "GO FUCK YOURSELF" part - I literally was speechless after that

[Iris]

41. My, God, WHY do these people INSIST on living in the dark ages?

[earth mom]

43. Why even post this shit on DU in the first place? Don't give LIES any ink or any time.

:grr:

[Taverner]

44. Get bent. When I come across idiots, this is where I go to decompress

Would you rather I build it all up until I'm up in the clock tower at Liberty University, taking out fundies????

[earth mom]

50. Get bent yourself. This thread is like posting Rush Limbaugh or O'Lielly propaganda.

If I wanted to know what freepers think, I'd watch Faux news or go to freeperville-which I never do.

I could give a damn about their lies and memes and I don't want to see their brand of poison here on DU.

[Taverner]

51. Ever hear the term "know thy enemy"?

[earth mom]

56. The reason those "enemies" have any followers at all is because they have the airtime

on t.v. and radio that they use to the max to brainwash people.

I remember a time when guys like Limbaugh or O'Lielly were looked upon with scorn and never given the time of day.

Their ideas and bullshit was so fringe that it was shocking and repulsive to the majority of people in this country.

But once those jerks got airtime, their repulsive ideas became not so shocking and not so repulsive to their listeners because they became indoctrinated to it.

The best thing we can all do to shut them up is to refuse to listen to their fringe bullshit.

[Taverner]

57. Whatever. I really don't think I'm going to make any converts here - being its such a STUPID IDEA!!!

[PA Democrat]

45. Gee, there was a famous "doctor" named Bruno Bettelheim who advocated

similar foolishness. He was the main proponent of the "refrigerator mother" theory of autism. He destroyed a lot of families' lives because the "treatment" he recommended was to take the children away from the parents. Bettelheim was a charlatan who had faked his credentials and faked his "research". He eventually committed suicide I think in 1990, but by that time he had caused so much pain to families trying to cope not just with autism, but with the guilt he heaped upon the mothers.

There is a great biography of Bettelheim entitled The Creation of Dr. B: A Biography of Bruno Bettelheim by Richard Pollack. Pollack's brother was one of Bettelheim's "patients" who lived at the residential facility run by Bettelheim. Pollack details the agony his mother went through because she was told that she was the cause of her son's autism.

The son with autism left the facility for a short visit with his family. While home he died in a freakish accident. Bettelheim cruelly told the parents that the boy's death was not an accident, but was actually a suicide due to the mother's rejection of him. Bettelheim was a monster who built his reputation by ripping apart the very souls of the mothers of the children he claimed to help.

I think that people like Bettelheim and the woman you ran into have a need to denigrate the efforts of other people in an attempt to elevate their own sense of self worth.

I'm sure that asshole next to you at the gym pats herself on the back daily for managing to raise typical kids due to her superior parenting skills.

I guess in my case, my parenting skills must have really slipped somewhere between my first and second child. My first was an early talker, very socially outgoing, and is an excellent student. My second child has autism, and she has had to struggle for every inch of progress she's made. I'd love to ask that woman if my second child was not talking at the age of three because of some particular parenting skill that I lacked.

[Odin2005]

47. Bettelheim is an example of why Freudian bastards shouldn't be allowed to be shrinks.

[Taverner]

48. Freud had some good ideas, being the first

But He is only one brick in the wall...Jung is another and Max Weber is yet another...

[LeftishBrit]

52. How revolting

I seem to remember reading here that some RW talk-show host had said something fairly similar. Maybe that's where she got it?

[Taverner]

53. Looks like its the Savage Weiner aka Michael Savage

I thought it was O'Reilly - but he is partial to at least SOME reality

Weiner, is all hate. Hate hate hate, all the time.

[spanone]

62. bwahahaha this from the party of no responsibility

[OwnedByFerrets]

63. Somewhat off subject, but interconnected...

this is an important book on the subject of ADHD. If you know anyone that needs assistance in this area, please recommend.

http://www.amazon.com/Thom-Hartmanns-Complete-Guide-ADHD/dp/1887424520

"In this volume, the acknowledged pioneer in attention deficit disorder research combines the best of his previous books with important new information. In the new chapters (about 25 percent of the book), Hartmann looks at how and why America's school system fails to assist children diagnosed with ADHD and urges parents to find alternative means of educating their children when this happens."