I might have made a mistake in a recent discussion here on guns

[Mike 03]

I wrote that AK-47s were being sold on a radio swap-meet type show.

I'm not sure they were AK-47s. It is my recollection that this type of weapon was being offered, but there was also something called an "AR-something", and some of them were made in China, and there was a Marine selling a weapon that was commonly used in Viet Nam, which sounded ominous and forbidable, but which I know little about.

I don't know enough about guns to say with any certainty that these were "automatic rifles" or machine guns. I am far, far from being knowledgeable about such issues.

It sounded like they were pretty serious weapons to be sold over the radio. But then again, this is Arizona, where anything seems to go where weapons are concerned.

But if I was wrong, I would appreciate being corrected or educated on this matter. I want to know more about these guns and what the difference is among them.


If I exaggerated what is happening here, or misrepresented what these weapons are, I apologize. But hearing about them amazed and scared me. But as I said, I don't have a very comprehensive knowlege of guns.

Thank you for your indulgence.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. No problems Mike

most folks actually don't know much

It takes guts

[Mike 03]

2. Thanks... NT

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. You got a long PM by the way...

[Mike 03]

11. Thank you. As I wrote to you, you never cease to amaze me for your

comprehensive knowledge. You really inspire me.

Your intelligence is something to be admired.

Best,
Mike

[The Straight Story]

3. Might have been an ar-15

http://www.bushmaster.com/index.asp

Which are legal. But scary looking :)

I put one together with a friend of mine. Basically the same as any gun. Put a bullet in, pull trigger, and it shoots. But the look does throw people off a tad.

[Mike 03]

8. I think it was this! Exactly. It was an AR something. NT

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

18. Likely since they are among the most popular rifles in the country.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

4. Very big of you.

It's hard to say since so many semi-automatics that slightly resemble Ak-47's are called AK-47's even by people that know better. Here is a bit of information you might find helpful.

The following is the process to legally purchase an AK-47 in the United States.

"Process for obtaining a Class 3, Title 2 or NFA Weapon
The transfer tax on machine guns, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, and suppressors is $200 payable to the BATFE. The transfer tax on AOWs is $5 and is also payable to the BATFE. This transfer tax is a one time only tax and not an annual tax. Each time an NFA weapon changes hands, the tax is charged except if the transfer is between class 3 dealers.
The paperwork required for the transfer of an NFA weapon consists of an application known as the Form 4. The Form 4 is completed and submitted with the applicant's photograph attached and a fingerprint card. These are submitted the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in duplicate along with the respective transfer tax. The finger print cards are forwarded to the FBI for a background check. The background check and transfer process takes about 2 months or so depending on the examiners’ work load and if there are any errors on the preparers part.
Once the Form 4 application is approved, one copy of the approved application with a "stamp" is sent back to the dealer or seller of the weapon. The dealer or seller contacts the buyer and makes the physical transfer of the weapon at that time. The approved Form 4 application stays with the weapon and is proof that the buyer has paid the transfer tax. The original should be stored in a safe place and a photocopy carried with the weapon should the legality of the NFA weapon be questioned by law enforcement officers."

It should be noted that the importation of AK-47's has been illegal since 1968 and domestic manufacture has been illegal since 1986. Hope this helps.


David

[remedy1]

12. You might add...

The Form 4 requires the signature of the chief law enforcement officer in your community, Sheriff, Police Chief, or a Judge, DA, etc. in order to be processed by the BATF. Not all will do so. Additionally, the firearm must be transferred by a Class III dealer, (not all dealers are.) The process can be a PITA.

BTDT...

[cliffordu]

5. You have to have a specific license to own an automatic weapon

There are semi-auto models of the Vietnam era weapons available everywhere - they mostly use varying lengths of 5.56mm ammo - the M-14 (my personal weapon) uses 7.62mm (.308) cartridges.

Don't be fooled at the hype- the only FUNCTIONAL difference between 'assault weapons' and semi auto hunting rifles is magazine capacity.

Cosmetics differ, though, and that is what the anti-assault weapon crowd gets all sweaty over.

Automatic weapons -the true assault weapons used in the war in Vietnam, are heavily regulated and controlled.

The fact is that any weapon can be used as an assault weapon.

I used an M-14 as a sniper rifle in Vietnam, although I could have been using a Remington model 700 (a common deer rifle) to the same effect.

Same cartridge. same carnage.

[jmg257]

7. Taking some stabs at this based on your post, so..

AR likely to be AR-15 (5.56 caliber), but maybe an AR-10(.308), MAYBE AR-180 (older 5.56). These are semi-auto rifles. An AR-15 is a semi auto civilian version of the military M-16 (selective fire - semi & full auto). -180 is a semi version of the AR-18, Armalite's answer to the popularity of the AR-15/M16, which they sold the rights to (to Colt) way back when they were accepted by the US military. AR is from Armalite - the company that designed them. Many companies build AR-15s now, under that or other similiar designations and configurations. (Bushmaster, Colt, Armalite Inc, DPMS, etc. etc.) 2nd most popular rifle in the world is the M-16/M4 (lots of parts, mags etc available), while the AR is the most popular civilian rifle in the US (numbers produced).

AK-47 could indeed be an AK-47 type rifle, or an SKS (often confused though they are quite different)- likely also to be a semi-auto. Chinese made ones would be common enough. Real AK is a Russian designed assault rifle (selective fire). Name stands for “automatic Kalashnikov 1947”. Most common rifle in the world (3rd world, communist block, etc.) Many countries produce them, popular here are the semi auto copies - Russian, Chinese, Romanian, etc. under various designations.

These all use detachable box magazines, other then the standard SKS, which uses a 'fixed' 10 round magazine. Hi capacity mags (+10) were restricted under the AWB, but plenty of existing ones were available and grandfathered, and more came into the country that pre-dated the ban, so were also legal to buy. Federal ban expired, so have been eaiser to get and more plentiful then ever. (but very popular now, so...)


Nothing serious about them. Very popular rifles.

Full auto versions would however be highly regulated, require a tax stamp (& back ground check), and are VERY expensive (limited in numbers).

[MichaelHarris]

9. I'll freak a lot of people out here

but not one gun, handgun, shotgun, or assault rifle ever walked into a school or building and shot someone. They just don't do that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. With all the robotics they are doing... don't bet your ass on it

the correct words would be ... so far

Yep, your friendly DoD is even looking at semi-autonomous Drones

Now that should give you a warm fuzzy, next time your puter goes into the blue screen of death

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

15. I think it's the lack of legs. We all know how evil they are.

If they had legs I bet they would do it. :beer:

David

[jmg257]

16. It's the lack of opposing thumbs, Dave.

Cheers!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. They've got to get there first.

[MichaelHarris]

22. maybe

that's why they don't arm robots. Everyone knows they are just waiting to kill us, just like cats are. Cats can't wait for us to die so they can eat us.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

26. I wondered why my mom's cat stares at me that way.

[Orrex]

10. Here's an easy way to remember

The Cobra Officer came with an AK-47.


That should clear it up!

[geckosfeet]

14. If you knew what they were called, you google them for years. Google AK-47.

Or check the Wikipedia.

[deaniac21]

19. I'm thinking you shouldn't even talk about guns until you educate

yourself.

[iamthebandfanman]

20. youre just full of insults tonite arent ya ?

cant even be nice to someone being a bigger person and admitting their lack of knowledge..

first you insult men who had no choice on their penis being cut as being females and now you attempt to put down someone doing the right thing.

get a grip.

[pipoman]

21. It seems from afar to be very complex

but if you take a bit of time you will find there are really only 2 types of rifles.

1. Military fully automatic or select fire, meaning machine gun, pull the trigger and hold it for numerous rounds one after the other

2. Non military semi automatic, bolt action, lever action, pump action firearms which all fire 1 round with the pull of the trigger.

The former are heavily restricted and have not been a crime issue in the US for near 75 years. You can count on one hand the number of violent crimes committed with these guns in the last 30 years.

The latter are all legal for ownership (in most states) by non felons, non mentally ill, non domestic abusers who are adults. Thus there is some crime committed with them. Less than 5% of all gun crime is committed with them, but there is some. My fathers deer hunting rifle a Remington Model 740 (purchased new in the 1950's) which I killed my first deer with and my son killed his first deer with functions exactly the same as an AR-15 or a civilian, semi automatic version of the AK47. Remington Model 740 sounds innocuous as does Chevy Malibu, AR-15 or AK-47 sounds terrifying as does Z-28 or Viper. Banning guns which look scary is no different than banning cars which look fast, not effective and only serves to piss off the owners, no crime reduction at all.

Some people are truly interested in educating themselves about this issue. It is really easy but does take time. There is a lot of reading on the web about this issue. You could look in your local yellow pages for a rifle range near you and go for a visit. You would find the people there more than willing to show you these guns, don't worry, most rifle ranges are inherently safe.

If you are not that interested then, as with any other technical subject, is better left to those who do know.

BTW If a gun is being offered on your local radio swap, it is certainly in the #2 category above. Guns are considered personal property in most states. This personal property can be sold to anyone not known to be prohibited from owning them who resides in the same state. When one of these guns is sold at a gun store a Federal Background check is required. If it is sold between private parties a Federal Background check isn't required in most states. This is the wrongly labeled "gun show loophole". The reason private sales are not subject to Federal Background checks is because the Federal Government has no jurisdiction on intrastate sales of personal property and Federal legislators cannot find a way around this, thus there is a lot of lip service to "closing the gun show loophole" yet it never gets closed. Further the Federal background check isn't even available to the public so if I want to sell my completely legal gun I have no way to definitively determine that the buyer is allowed to own a gun. People looking for a common sense solution to the issue of private sales could improve the possibility that these guns will not get into the wrong hands by making the Federal background system available for private sales, but alas nobody in a position to effect this minor change is even proposing it.

[ContinentalOp]

23. When I was a kid I had one of these. Fully automatic!

:P

[1]

24. that's cool, mike. 90%+ of the anti-gun posters here get it wrong all of time. fear is scary...

the illogical fear of "terra, terra, terra..." is being replaced by the same illogical fear of "assault weapon, assault weapon, assault weapon..."

when trigger words like "assault weapon" are heard, those that don't know mindlessly react and think "fully automatic machine guns."

those that do know understand, that this is complete bullshit. fully automatic machine guns have been illegal since before your father was born.


those that don't know mindlessly think the "assault weapons ban of 1994" removed the remaining semi-automatic scary weapons from society.

those that do know understand, that this is complete bullshit. it was and is still legal to own them even after this "ban." no scary weapons disappeared.


those that don't know mindlessly think a brand new "assault weapons ban" would now finally remove all of these semi-automatic scary weapons from society.

those that do know understand, that this is still complete and utter bullshit. you can't unring that bell, the laws can't work that way.


i applaud your meā culpā about what you do not know. do a little research, don't drink the "scary guns" kool-aid, and i'm sure this topic will be revisited on du very soon.

peace, my brother mike...

[spoony]

25. No worries Mike

I hope you didn't take my reply about the ATF as sarcastic. While I figured you may have misheard or misunderstood, there's always the chance you didn't.

And even as someone with a recreational interest in guns, it's often hard for me to keep up with the dizzying variety of models, let alone reproductions, that are out there.