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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 04:47 PM
Original message
Obama Administration Moves to Protect Bush Administration Military Officials
Obama Admin Moves to Protect Military Officials

by Nedra Pickler

WASHINGTON - The Obama administration is trying to protect top Bush administration military officials from lawsuits brought by prisoners who say they were tortured while being held at Guantanamo Bay.

The Justice Department argued in a filing Thursday with the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia that holding military officials liable for their treatment of prisoners could cause them to make future decisions based on fear of litigation rather than appropriate military policy.

The Obama administration was expected to take another stand affecting Guantanamo detainees' lawsuits Friday. A federal judge overseeing lawsuits of detainees challenging their detention has given the Justice Department until the close of business to give its definition of whom the United States may hold as an "enemy combatant."

Obama has pledged to close the Guantanamo Bay detention facility within a year, and Justice Department lawyers are already trying to find courtrooms or foreign countries to place the 240 people still held there.

<snip>

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/03/13-9
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. I disagree with the policy
but I'm not surprised by it. No president wants to be the one to have military officials prosecuted.

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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Every officer should know it is proper, even patriotic, to ignore illegal orders...
and blow the whistle on anyone who asks them to do so. How many did *, Rumsfeld and Cheney have to fire before they got complicity in their crimes?

There is no defense.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think the problem is that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were given immunity from
impeachment and future prosecution, in order to get them to back off from nuking Iran, and to leave the White House peacefully when the time came (and to get Rumsfeld to resign)--which occurred circa late 2006--and this greatly complicates Obama's probable desire to restore the rule of law and the US Constitution. He can't very well okay the prosecution of CIA and other intelligence personnel, military personnel, or lesser Bush Junta figures--it wouldn't be fair, with the Bush Junta principles immunized. I do think that this, or some similar scenario, occurred (the origin of Pelosi's strange announcement that "Impeachment is off the table") (i.e., what table?), with some of those involved thinking they were doing the best thing for the country. I think Obama knows about it, and had to agree to abide by it to be permitted to win the election. But this leaves government accountability, our Constitution, our laws and our future as a democracy in peril. With the voting machines the way they are (controlled by private rightwing corporations, with 'TRADE SECRET' code), the Bushwhack fascists could be re-installed in power--easily!--and we would have no recourse. And, really, any leader can be tempted by unlawful powers--whether they gain office by a stolen election or not. The extrajudicial powers that the Bushwhacks asserted, and used, are extremely dangerous precedents to go without any consequences.

And we aren't talking any relatively minor shit like Nixon was involved in. We're talking about massive criminalty, unseen ever before in the history of the U.S.--the pervasive violation of numerous laws of every kind, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the Geneva Conventions, the UN Charter, several Constitutionally protected rights, massive domestic spying (and the probable assembly of blackmail dossiers on all US and other public figures), the torture of thousands of prisoners for purposes unknown, the invention of categories of prisoner by fiat, the politicalization of the Department of Justice, the use of the law for political purposes, the hiring of incompetents in many agencies, massive government secrecy, massive abuse of "executive privilege," the massive looting of the federal treasury, including the recent Bushwhack Financial 9/11 last September (in addition to leaving the government in trillions of dollars of debt, the outright giveaway of another trillion dollars to rich banksters and financial criminals), massive malfeasance as to financial oversight, billions of dollars missing in Iraq, the gruesome failures of FEMA during the Katrina hurricane, the no-bid contracts to Cheney's buds, lying about the WMDs, slaughtering a hundred thousand people with "shock and awe" bombing to steal their oil, outing CIA agents, and on and on and on and on.

The malfeasance alone would be cause enough to impeach a dozen presidents. The massive crime is just mind-boggling.

This is not unimportant, forgiveable, forgettable over-reaching or occasional foul-ups, or "a few bad eggs," or mistakes made in a crisis. This is a consistent pattern of massive criminality by the top Bush Junta decision-makers, with Bush Jr's name on it all. However stupid he may be, he was their willing tool. And I think part of what happened back in circa late 2006 is that Bush Sr stepped in to rescue Jr, with Leon Panetta's help (member of Bush Sr's "Iraq Study Group"--probably deep CIA--my opinion), which coincided with a movement within the military and intelligence communities, and others, to curtail Rumsfeld's power, to stop the nuking of Iran, and to restore order.

One of the things that convinces me that such a "deal" was made is the overwhelming nature of Bush Junta criminality. The top Bushites belong in a Nuremburg trial. They stole two elections and took us right off the cliff into a nazi state. I don't think the collusion of our more collusive Democrats on some of this, or the collusion of anyone else, sufficiently explains why nothing is being done to hold these criminals accountable for anything. And Obama's stance--he wants to look forward, not backward--is unreal. How could any progressive Constitutional lawyer--editor of the Harvard law review--say such a thing? True, he has his hands full--no question about that. But he is sending numerous signals that he doesn't care what they did--they could have been roasting babies in the White House basement (and that is exactly what they were doing in Iraq), and he would just brush it off as "past history." That's how it appears to me--and it's one of the things that causes me to suspect that he is operating under serious constraints as to restoring the rule of law. Have we become such stupid people during the Bush interregnum--that we don't suspect that a deal was made?

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Deals Can Be Unmade--and Minds Can Be Changed
and there is NO Immunity for injustice done.
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liberalla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Wow. That's a very interesting, compelling theory you have, and
it sounds completely plausible. Seriously.

A 'deal' made at that time and under those circumstances is tainted and faulty. They were threatened, coerced -- like signing a contract while someone holds a gun to your head. I can almost understand making the deal in order to prevent the nuclear bombing of Iran, BUT you could also make a case now that the deal is illegitimate. (We have to honor our 'deals' with criminals?)

If this is even a little true, I can understand President Obama will need to step very carefully in this minefield.

I'm hoping another nation/s will hold them responsible if we don't. Thanks for sharing your theory.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. That is a very interesting prospect.
I suggest that you post this as an original topic.

I cannot make sense of how things have gone if the Bush cabal had been making threats. However, if they had implied they would make a bigger mess, or back off is given immunity, then it all starts coming together. Complete with the morse code blinking Pelosi eyes during that last SOTU speech next to Cheney. Haha.

I would like to see this post in the forum, and not just in this thread. This is the kind of thing that could just start getting brains like Jonathan Turley to turn on in an alternative way. Or John Dean. Maybe once someone starts thinking outside of our usual context, they might actually discover something fresh.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I wish I could recommend your post...
I think you've summed it up perfectly. Thanks for posting...


Peace,

Ghost

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. I agree you should make this an op, pp!
:thumbsup:
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. There is no hard evidence for this
but sometimes you have to infer from what happened -- connect the dots -- and this is pretty plausible.

All political deals, however, are potentially temporary. If such a deal was made, and if shit really hits the fan economically and the repugs launch a meme of an Obama depression, I wouldn't be surprised if all the dirt is then allowed to come out.

That said, I think the dirt/prosecutions will be limited to Bush and cabinet level officials and that no matter what, the guys who were "just following orders" will be allowed to go free.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. Torture Is Appropriate Military Policy?
Only if we're in a dictatorship. Nancy, isn't that table ready, yet?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. When The Gov't Is Sued , DOJ Defends The Gov't (And The Gov't Officials Involved)
Period. This is their job. Right or wrong, the military officials involved deserve defense attorney's, and since they are gov't employees, that falls to DOJ.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
12. oh there is more...
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/13/and-it-does-not-employ-the-phrase-enemy-combatant/

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Obama Becomes Bush As We Wait For Walker’s Ruling
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/14/obama-becomes-bush-as-we-wait-for-walkers-ruling/

As you may recall, since February 27, we have been waiting for a decision, of some sort, from Vaughn Walker in the al-Haramain and Consolidated Cases litigation in NDCA. The decision is not in yet; however, there is a new filing in the Consolidated Cases further ingraining the oneness of Obama with Bush in the litigation.

There really wasn't much doubt about the oneness with the exception of the nuance Marcy noted as to Obama shifting slightly away from privilege in favor of the merits. Slightly is the key word there; the overall tenor of the Obama position in the consolidated wiretapping cases is disgustingly identical to the duplicitous and wrongheaded state secrets policy of Bush/Cheney.

The new filing is by the government, by and through the Obama DOJ, and is a motion to dismiss in a recently consolidated case, McMurray v. Verizon Communications. Interestingly, McMurray was already a plaintiff from the start in the Consolidated Cases, but attempted to file a separate action in July of 2008 in the Southern District of New York challenging the application of Section 802 to their original action that had already been consolidated. Section 802 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (“FISA”), 50 U.S.C.§ 1885a(a) provides that a civil action “may not lie or be maintained” against electronic communication services providers alleged to have provided assistance to an element of the intelligence community, and “shall be promptly dismissed” if the Attorney General of the United States certifies that one of several circumstances exist with respect to the alleged assistance.

Now you may ask yourself why did McMurray file this challenge in SDNY instead of in Vaughn Walker's court where his case, and all the others, already was lodged? Excellent question, and one I have no answer for since it was bound to be transferred out to Walker's court with the rest of the Consolidated Cases including, notably, McMurray's. Of course, the better question is how did all the cases ever get consolidated in the 9th to start with, and I will get back to that later.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. "Obama becomes Bush"
No need to read any further.

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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
14. Nedra Pickler? Long time shill for the pubs. nt
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
15. "change" blah blah blan "change" blah blah blah "look forward"
it's all BULLSHIT. "cutting deals" with Bush, as suggested above? oh, that's nice. I always like to "cut deals" with war criminals, thieves, mass murderers. Delightful company.

Obama has heard from me several times on this issue. He is complicit with war crimes and I can't get behind someone who is in essence a war criminal. His "constitutional scholar" "creds" are also BULLSHIT. If he were really a "constitutional scholar," Bush et al. would be in prison awaiting trial for their OBVIOUS violations of the Constitution. What is so fucking HARD about that?

O can "look forward" all he wants, but the rats, vermin, torturers, thieves, and fucking WAR CRIMINALS are underfoot and ensuring that they are permanently embedded in our government. How does he expect The People to get behind him when he will not take even a fucking baby step to seeing that Justice is served? sheesh. good-bye, barack.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
16. K&R n/t
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
17. Well, he's right.
Would you want a doctor operating on you with the goal of (a) doing what's best for your health or (b) covering his ass?

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