Do you work to live or live to work?

[Cerridwen]

[vadawg]

1. For me i love to work, i love my job, if i didnt do this though id do something else

and love it equally, my family know ill never retire, ill die on the job and die happy as a treeful of parrots.

[Cerridwen]

9. That is wonderful. It's truly great when your work is that which you

truly enjoy.

I wish you well.

:toast:

[Historic NY]

2. Give me work I might be disable but my mind works..!! it does.

[Cerridwen]

11. No doubt in my mind. None whatsoever.

If money were no object...

Have you heard that before?

I wish we could all do the work we desire to do rather than do the work that we have to do due to financial considerations.

Thank you for replying.

:D

[BlooInBloo]

3. Lil of both.

[Cerridwen]

14. Would you adjust the ratios if "money were no object"? n/t

[Selatius]

4. A human should not simply exist for the purpose of being used as labor.

That path denies basic dignity to the individual and to people in general. Not everybody wants to build their life around the workplace, and employers should accept that, not coerce or even use intimidation or even force to get them to agree to such a relationship.

[vadawg]

5. i agree with you to an extent, but surely everyone needs to contribute something of value

i sure as hell knew growing up that everyone around me had to and was contributing otherwise they would be driven out.

[Selatius]

6. Well, I don't have any problems with people who want or must to live to work.

My problem comes when the freedom to choose between live to work and work to live is taken away by the employer. That is where I draw the line. If you lived in a situation where one must live to work, then it invites a discussion on what could be changed to make life better for all involved, but it would be inappropriate to blame people who willingly choose to live in such a situation.

[Duer 157099]

13. Sometimes some people contribute in unorthodox ways

for example, if no needy people existed and everyone were able to take care of themselves, then a substantial portion of humanity would miss out on the opportunity to provide charitable service to others, a valuable human lesson.

In many "primitive" cultures, they value such members.

I think our society has gone off the rails by severely narrowing the definition of what a "productive" or "valuable" member of society actually is.

[vadawg]

21. i come from what you might call a primitive culture,

And the rules were simple, you had to produce something that someone found value to or you didnt eat, that something could be childcare, advice or money, but there was no room for freeloading. personally i feel that everyone has something to contribute, though it may not be what they want to contribute, you may feel you should get paid for your writing but nobody is buying so you have to work cleaning toilets, but you still contribute.

[Cerridwen]

28. But, within our current construct...

those who care for children or the well-being of non-productive-members of society are valued less (as measured by dollar$), as having less "value" by the dominant culture. Those who do not contribute to the GNP (and its many surrogates) are of lesser value and therefor not "worthy" of our attention and aid.

Your "primative" culture sounds more accepting of those skills which capitalism defines as worthLESS.

[vadawg]

30. but and this is a big but, if you didnt contribute then you were left to fend for yourself

there were different needs and skills in my circumstances, but no one could just get something for nothing, everything was barter and had a price, so yes if you couldnt contribute then you were worthless unless someone wanted to support you, but i never saw this happen.

[Cerridwen]

31. "but i never saw this happen."

Might I suggest, that if one looks for value in any contribution, one is less likely to find "value-less" contributions. It is hard to find lack of value when one is focused on preserving the whole rather than one being focused on preserving the one.

YMMV.

[vadawg]

32. that dosent work in a hand to mouth society, frinstance you may find the poet worthwhile

but unless he has other skills then he is not contributing to the group, its a harsh existence but you asked for examples, in primitive societies there are people who are deemed worthless just like in modern society.

[Cerridwen]

33. What happens to the worthless?

I really want to know. I'm not from that type of society - at least as far as the PR goes. If you've a mind, please share.

If you're not of a mind I'll survive the mystery. :)

In either case, thank you for replying.

:hi:

[vadawg]

34. the worthless are usually cast out, which means death

i have been told were in the old days the families would actually euthanise older members, but i havent seen it, so i dont know if stories of granny in the snow in her jammies are true. I have seen a few wastrels been cast out, they tended to get into drugs and prostitution etc, as i said its harsh but thats the culture.

[Lyric]

46. Human beings have no need to be uplifted? To be educated?

Within your culture, there was no place for art? For storytelling? For philosophy?

Poetry does all of those things and more. I have never heard of a culture that did not highly value its artisans, poets, writers, painters, and philosophers.

Well...except for ours. *sigh*

[Cerridwen]

16. Define "value", please.

Though it may seem so, I'm not being argumentative. I'd truly like to know what defines "value" within your personal ideals.

[Cerridwen]

15. I agree. I think my poll represents my particular bias.

'Tis sad. But, true.

I prefer, as I've posted before, the Brandeis "ideal" of labor and work.

[Lorien]

7. My work defines me. I was raised in a home where work was the

be all, end all of life. My mother never once asked "did you have fun today"? It was always "Did you have a productive day"? We could never relax at home; if I was watching TV (for the short time we had one) I had to be cleaning silverware or working on a school project or doing some other form of work at the same time. Mom never said "when you get married someday" or "when you have children of your own"; it was always " You'd better get good grades, get into a good college and get a decent job, because the only person who will look after you is you". EVERYTHING revolved around work. I still find it impossible to relax. Just can't do it. I think I can count the times that I've had "fun" on my fingers. Republicans-if they didn't know how liberal I am-would see me as the perfect American.

[Cerridwen]

8. "Idle hands are the Devil's workshop."

Sound about right?

If you prefer my sympathy, I offer that. If you prefer my congratulations, I offer that.

Given your background, I commend you - regardless of how you have "played" it.

:toast: I wish you health, prosperity, happiness, and peace.

[Lorien]

39. Lol! Thanks? Funny thing is that mom was an atheist

but she was obsessed with hard work and self sufficiency. She's nearly 70 now and she'll still re-roof a friend's home or slide under the car to do repairs. While I appreciate the lessons in self sufficiency (particularly since I'm alone), I do wish that we had been allowed a little fun time as kids. Man does not live by bread alone, as they say.

Right now I'm unemployed. HA!

:toast:

[Initech]

10. I work to live.

And fuck all that overtime, trying to get ahead bullshit.

[Cerridwen]

17. I agree with you.

The idea that "we are what our jobs are" grates terribly on my psyche; or my chemical composition and synaptic brain pathways; depending on your belief system.

Thank you for replying.

I appreciate it.

:)

[Initech]

50. Office Space had the right idea.

"Its not that I'm lazy... its that I just dont care!"
"Dont care?"

[Ozymanithrax]

12. I'm unemployed.

[Cerridwen]

19. Were money no object, would you prefer to be employed for the purpose

of "making a living" or for the purpose of defining yourself through your work?

Okay, profound and philosphical debates aside, I wish you much luck in whatever your endeavors, that you may live well (however you define "well") and that you get what you want and want what you get.

[Ozymanithrax]

49. Read in Life 101 years ago...

Find what you like and make it your work, because we spend more time working than anything else.

However, Maslow's hierarchy of needs requires me to fulfill physiological, safety, love/belonging, and self esteem before I get to the whole self actualization thing.

Right now, feeding my family and putting a roof over our head comes before living to work.

Also, I put my family and personal relationships before my own happiness/self esteem, self actualization. Living to work takes a back seat to the people in my life.

[Joe the Liberal]

24. Ditto. n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

18. I love my job, work from home, and have integrated my work into my life

My work is simply part of what I do each day. Our vacations are often tied to work. In many ways, I don't even feel as if I have a job.

I also consider myself very, very lucky.

[Cerridwen]

20. Stinky, I swear by whatever anyone thinks as holy, that you are the

constant pain in my backside that I welcome each morning as proof of my existence and worth. I'd bet "dollars to doughnuts" that what I just typed makes sense to you. :D

I would wish everyone in this country and on this planet, that they have the same kind of "work" and sense of self that you have and that they, too, realize how lucky they are.

:hug:

Because no one, no where, can ever have, too many :hug:

[Stinky The Clown]

52. Awww .... thank you!

And yes .... I did understand what you meant! :hug:

[hfojvt]

22. Robb is now a mod

I said 'define work'. My job is a meal ticket, but it is also only part-time. There is also domestic work that I do - cooking, cleaning, laundry, shopping, yardwork, etc. More necessary evil, imo. But much of my free time is also filled by various 'work' - family history research, writing letters, economic research, updating a website, working for the County Democratic Party as precinctman and treasurer, and other volunteer work with Kiwanis and the Salvation Army. That too, is work, and obviously I do not do it for the money.

[Cerridwen]

26. *sigh* I knew he'd eventually sell out and become part of the

establishment.

:rofl:

Isn't it interesting how we define "work" versus work? How we define what we would do were we not paid versus that which we would do regardless.

Thanks, hfojvt. I appreciate the input. And who freaking knew about "Rob?!!" What a "sell out!!"

:evilgrin:

[RushIsRot]

23. I am happily retired.

[Cerridwen]

29. Why "happily?"

Don't you think that one must constantly contribute the the value of the whole in order to justify one's existence?

Uh, yeah, my question is part rhetorical and part snark. :D

[eridani]

38. Now that I'm retired, I wonder how I ever found time to go to work every day

Most of it is volunteer community and political work; the rest is doing a lot more stuff in a home-made way.

[RushIsRot]

40. Because I am old enough to have already made my contribution,

and now I can enjoy life without further contributing. I do not need to justify my existence any longer. I just exist. Deal with it. With luck you'll eventually get here too. :hi:

[MrSlayer]

25. I hate working but must.

I don't get that whole satisfaction thing out of it that others do, I just hate it. I'd much rather be idle rich, free to persue what I want to do whenever I want to do it. Being working class blows.

[Cerridwen]

27. I'm curious. In case you haven't yet noticed.

What would you persue were money no object? How would that change your "view of the world?"

Yeah. I'm a pain in the backside. I'm also curious. Care to share? If not. Okay. If yes. Okay, too.

:)

[MrSlayer]

36. Ok.

It just sucks only having a few hours a day to do things you enjoy doing because you have to work a job you hate simply to have the basics and afford some modest luxury for your family. I don't find a year's worth of busting my balls on construction sites for a week in Disney to be a fair trade off. I don't feel I'm getting value for my work. The ratio of work to enjoyment is not even close. As I'm sure it is with most people.

It just is what it is. No one is going to hand me a billion dollars, the lottery is the longest of long shots and you're never going to be rich when the paycheck goes out almost as soon as it comes in.

But it certainly could be worse. At least I have a house I'm in no danger of losing, we eat well, my kids are healthy and doing well in school. Nobody goes without. Many people would like to trade places. As much as I hate working, right now I'm happy to have a job to hate.


If money was no object for me I would travel the world at my leisure, seeing all there is worth seeing. I'd hire the best backing Metal band and write, play and record music, go on tour. If he were still alive I'd hire Gary Gygax to DM marathon gaming sessions for my friends and I. I would write, produce and put out terrible major motion pictures starring Oscar winning performers. I'd spend time writing demented short stories while on acid. I'd throw huge Puff Daddy style parties with really strange dress codes. You could do almost anything. When you're rich like that every day is a party day and you can also bring others along for the ride. I'd go and find the best and worst student in the poorest schools and set them up with scholarships. Drag random homeless people into my limo and take them to five star restaurants. Wealth is more than power, it's freedom. It's just a life of fun, I'm all about the fun and I'm not having anywhere near enough of it.

[Cerridwen]

47. Thank you.

I learned a lot from reading your post. I appreciate the time you took to write it and that you were willing to respond to my nosey questions. :D

Again, thank you.

[dysfunctional press]

35. i retired at 38, so i live to...live.

unfortunately, i retired due to permanent disability and chronic pain from an arthritic spinal condition brought on by the rapid onset of a long un/mis-diagnosed autoimmune disorder, ankylosing spondylitis...

but- it did help me accomplish my ultimate goal in life- i wanted to be able to not HAVE a boss, or BE a boss. and i'm already there.

now what? :shrug:

[old mark]

37. For me it was "work sucks, and then you retire." I have so many things I love to do

and I still don't get to do them all since I retired. I hated working especially for the people I worked for. I detest big management types who look down on those who work for them.

I retired nearly 2 years ago,and I just got used to it around the Christmas season - I love every day since I am retired.

mark

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Work is a highly overrated pastime. Certainly not one to be taken seriously.

The happiest day of my life was my 55th birthday when I could finally be shed of the ratrace.

[BlueGirlRedState]

42. I work for a RW mom and pop company

I started a week after the election. I heard that the boss told everyone if they cared about their jobs they's vote for McCain.

I just put on my earphones and listen to podcasts all day. Randi Rhodes, please hurry back!

[Obamanaut]

43. I am retired, and enjoy every minute of it. Today I will ride a bicycle

and work in the yard a bit - put out tomato seedlings, some flower seeds, pick up limbs and pine cones.

Tomorrow the motorcycle beckons.

[Iktomiwicasa]

44. Live to work

I work for my tribe. It is a labor of love to be of service to my own people.

[JackDragna]

45. I am my work.

What I do for a living requires complete and total dedication. I must sacrifice many things to do my job (teaching) to the level I expect of myself. My kids are so far behind and need so much help.

[lunatica]

48. I have a job because I have to. And I have no life

[guitar man]

51. I work to live

lately it's been more like work to subsist. I could give a shit other than that, If I hit the powerball tomorrow, I doubt I'd give 'em a 2 day notice let alone a 2 week notice....I'd be outta here and fast ;)

[librechik]

53. "I blog therefore I am online"

who has time to work?