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Hawkeye-X (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 09:55 PM Original message |
Prop 8 - Question.. if God forbid, the SCoC upholds the law - can it be appealed |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 10:00 PM Response to Original message |
1. If not the present case then sooner or later a case about Gay marriage |
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glowing (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 10:32 PM Response to Reply #1 |
4. No, not in this format. But if a gay couple sued for marriage equality, then |
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csziggy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:28 PM Response to Reply #4 |
6. Since part of the case seems to be about the status of the 18,000 couples married before Prop 8 |
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glowing (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 07:11 PM Response to Reply #6 |
72. Yes, that would probably work.. but it would have to be about the people, and not |
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msongs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 10:04 PM Response to Original message |
2. only if you have MORE $$ than the Mormon church nt |
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LeftyMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 10:06 PM Response to Original message |
3. No, the case deals with issues relating to the California constitution |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 10:40 PM Response to Reply #3 |
5. If the California Court Upholds Prop 8, |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:31 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. though im loathe to say it the recall would probuably be justified |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:34 PM Response to Reply #7 |
8. So which of your rights would you like removed by voters next year? |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:36 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. no problem, what rights would you rather have 9 people decide for you to have |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:42 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. Well, deciding that the equal protection clause applies to all of our citizens. |
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libnnc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:44 PM Response to Reply #13 |
16. activist judges ending institutionalized segregation... |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:45 PM Response to Reply #13 |
17. ideally it would be better if the amendments were made, sort of bomb proof them |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:48 PM Response to Reply #17 |
19. So which of your rights would you like to do without? |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:52 PM Response to Reply #19 |
21. well seeing that guns are already covered by an amendment i think you make my point. |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:55 PM Response to Reply #21 |
26. Yes, I would. |
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libnnc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:56 PM Response to Reply #26 |
30. LOL |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:47 AM Response to Reply #30 |
59. Wouldn't that be stunning? |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:59 PM Response to Reply #26 |
32. on you go and if you get enough people to vote that way |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 05:18 AM Response to Reply #32 |
68. amendments can be amended |
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Politicalboi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 10:46 PM Response to Reply #32 |
78. Yes I too agree with you to a point |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:20 AM Response to Reply #21 |
43. You don't seem to understand that our rights are inherent and NOT decided by the bigoted majority! |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:27 AM Response to Reply #43 |
52. i guess you havent read were i stated i was against the amendment |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:29 AM Response to Reply #52 |
53. You're FOR the tyranny of the majority. The citizenry DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to take ours away. |
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LostinVA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 06:20 AM Response to Reply #21 |
71. A very small group of very rich white guys made that Amendment, not "the people" |
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sohndrsmith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 10:24 PM Response to Reply #13 |
76. Right. Seems to me one way to clarify this Prop 8 thing is if hetero couples |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:18 AM Response to Reply #10 |
40. The populace DOESN'T HAVE THE RIGHT to take away our rights! |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:20 AM Response to Reply #40 |
42. if its unconstitutional then the court will find that way. |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:25 AM Response to Reply #42 |
50. Bullshit they will. Judges aren't infallible -- sometimes they're bigoted too. |
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jacksonian (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:21 AM Response to Reply #10 |
44. tell that to the mob in the street looking for the latest scapegoats |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 01:59 AM Response to Reply #10 |
64. Fuck that. My right's aren't up for a vote. Agreeing with that doesn't mean 9 robed |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:38 PM Response to Reply #7 |
11. Screw that bullshit, civil rights should NOT be put up to a vote, period. n/t |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:41 PM Response to Reply #11 |
12. nah we should always allow 9 people to decide what rights we have with no recource to change them |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:43 PM Response to Reply #12 |
14. They were not changing rights. |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:44 PM Response to Reply #12 |
15. Judges already have had that power since, oh, I don't know, about the 1820s or so... |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:47 PM Response to Reply #15 |
18. and the problem is that judges can also take away rights if they are so inclined |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:49 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. That's insanity, first off, when it comes to federal amendments... |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:53 PM Response to Reply #20 |
23. History also shows that people who put power into a fews hands come a cropper. |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:56 PM Response to Reply #23 |
27. First off, that power is limited to interpreting the law or testing its validity... |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:58 PM Response to Reply #27 |
31. okay then educate me |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:59 PM Response to Reply #31 |
33. "standards under the law" and who interprets whether this was followed or not? |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:03 AM Response to Reply #33 |
35. jeez you are being obtuse, ill say it again if the vote is legal |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:04 AM Response to Reply #35 |
36. The Judges don't set the standards, the Constitution does... |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:09 AM Response to Reply #36 |
37. i think we are at cross purposes here, ill try to term it differently |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:16 AM Response to Reply #37 |
38. Anyone who dismisses any judicial oversight as "finageling" should really just shut up now.... |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:18 AM Response to Reply #38 |
41. okay ill let you take away my rights to speech, thats cool i dont think you are capable |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:22 AM Response to Reply #41 |
45. Where the fuck did I take away your right to free speech? |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:24 AM Response to Reply #45 |
47. ah the last refuge accusations of being a freeper. i simply have a disagreement with you |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:25 AM Response to Reply #47 |
51. A disagreement that's based purely on your ignorance of how Judicial Oversight works in this... |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:25 AM Response to Reply #41 |
49. Rights of speech? |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:29 AM Response to Reply #49 |
54. nope not an american by birth, but by choice so my language usage is slightly different |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:33 AM Response to Reply #54 |
55. You language usage is fine, I would have pegged you as an American by birth... |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:34 AM Response to Reply #54 |
56. Ok, well that explains a few things. |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:36 AM Response to Reply #56 |
57. lol no problem i guess i kinda worded what i was trying to say wrong |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:24 AM Response to Reply #37 |
48. You think that the bigoted majority voting to take away a minority group's rights is okay? |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:23 AM Response to Reply #35 |
46. The Constitution of this country DOES NOT ALLOW FOR MINORITY RIGHT TO BE TAKEN AWAY BY THE MAJORITY. |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:56 PM Response to Reply #23 |
29. That's why we're all dead now. |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:17 AM Response to Reply #7 |
39. Um, thanks. That's how we lost our right to marry -- the bigotry of the many. |
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LostinVA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 06:17 AM Response to Reply #7 |
70. So, then slavery and no voting rights for women would be okay with you? |
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LeftyMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:54 PM Response to Reply #5 |
25. Not really. |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:56 PM Response to Reply #25 |
28. ill defer to your knowledge on this |
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LeftyMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:01 AM Response to Reply #28 |
34. The question is whether or not the vote was consistent with the state constitution |
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Hosnon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 01:19 AM Response to Reply #3 |
63. Not if one can successfully argue that Prop 8 violates the United States Constitution, |
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Angleae (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 10:29 PM Response to Reply #3 |
77. The CA constitution can be declared unconstitutional. |
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crimsonblue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:36 PM Response to Original message |
9. nope |
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flvegan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:52 PM Response to Original message |
22. Ultimately, couldn't the argument be made that the CA state constitution is, in part |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-05-09 11:53 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. lol i understood what you were getting at |
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Renaissance Man (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:45 AM Response to Reply #22 |
58. Regarding Constitutionality |
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flvegan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:56 AM Response to Reply #58 |
60. Why does the Dept of the Treasury define "marriage" then? |
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Hosnon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:59 AM Response to Reply #58 |
62. What do you mean by "breaches federalism"? |
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Thothmes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 07:56 PM Response to Reply #62 |
73. What happens if the current court finds that Prop 8 is |
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Hosnon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 10:14 PM Response to Reply #73 |
75. Then the SCOTUS has decided Its position. I believe the original question |
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Hosnon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 12:56 AM Response to Reply #22 |
61. I think so, yes. An obvious example would be if a state constitution prohibited women from voting. |
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TWiley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 05:20 AM Response to Reply #61 |
69. Great example ..... thank you |
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Hosnon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 10:11 PM Response to Reply #69 |
74. Not sure if the you left off the sarcasm smilie... |
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shimmergal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 03:39 AM Response to Reply #22 |
67. I don't think we'd want it to |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 02:11 AM Response to Original message |
65. Sure it could be, but I doubt they would hear the case |
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t0dd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-06-09 03:08 AM Response to Original message |
66. All the times I've seen the "Yes on 8" people celebrate their "victory" |
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