Another day, another 300 points.

[Stinky The Clown]

The wealth that has been stolen is absolutely astounding ...... and for this, no one is in jail ..... or even under investigation.

Except for the two Ponzi guys.


I know .... look forward, not back. No drama.

[rcrush]

1. When are the riots starting?

They riot in Europe when shit hits the fan. When is our shit going to hit the fan enough for people to start turning over police cars?

[FrenchieCat]

5. And that is going to do what, exactly?

These riots that you are looking for?

[Warren Stupidity]

6. It might result in a government afraid of its people

rather than a people afraid of their government.

[FrenchieCat]

10. So promoting anarchy is the way to go to solve our financial mess?

I think the only that it will do is have investors getting the hell out of dodge,
and taking all of us back to the stoneage.

For those with nothing to lose,
I guess this is as good of a solution as any......
Because losers don't mind losing what they don't have.

Those of us who have worked for the bit that we have,
we'd like to try President Obama's solution,
prior to throwing in the towel.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. perhaps, but anarchy is not 'rioting'.

Anarchy is a social system without hierarchical government. Riots are public disorder.

[FrenchieCat]

14. If people are rioting in the streets, and overturning cars,

while the banking system is falling apart,
that may look like a society without order...which is what I consider anarchy to be.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. I consider it to be french toast

words have meaning. Anarchy does not mean 'rioting in the streets'.

[FrenchieCat]

21. Indeed, it may.....

Specific anarchists may have additional criteria for what constitutes anarchism, and they often disagree with each other on what these criteria are. According to The Oxford Companion to Philosophy, "there is no single defining position that all anarchists hold, and those considered anarchists at best share a certain family resemblance."

There are many types and traditions of anarchism, not all of which are mutually exclusive.<4><5><6> Anarchism is usually considered to be a radical left-wing ideology,<7> and much of anarchist economics and anarchist legal philosophy reflect anti-authoritarian interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism or participatory economics; however, anarchism has always included an economic and legal individualist strain,<8> with that strain supporting an anarchist free-market economy and private property (like classical mutualism or today anarcho-capitalism and agorism).<9><10><11><12> Others, such as panarchists and anarchists without adjectives, neither advocate nor object to any particular form of organization as long as it is not compulsory. Some anarchist schools of thought differ fundamentally, supporting anything from extreme individualism to complete collectivism.<2> However, the central tendency of anarchism is represented by communist anarchism, with anarcho-individualism being a philosophical/literary anarchist phenomenon rather than a social movement.<13> Some anarchists fundamentally oppose all forms of coercion, while others have supported the use of some coercive measures, including violent revolution and terrorism, on the path to anarchy.<14>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism


Anarchist economics is the set of theories and practices of economic activity within the political philosophy of anarchism. Anti-capitalist anarchists (most notably anarcho-syndicalists and anarcho-communists) primarily oppose capitalism because they claim that its characteristic institutions promote and reproduce various forms of economic activity which they consider oppressive, including private property, hierarchical production relations, collecting rents from private property, taking a profit in exchanges, and collecting interest on loans. Such anarchists endorse soft propertarianism based on usufruct and possession rather than inalienable ownership.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_economics

[chrisa]

24. No, sorry.

The only thing that happens is alot of businesses get destroyed, and innocent peoples' lives ruined.

They would probably find it entertaining, actually.

[Dogmudgeon]

11. You go first

I'm way too polite to push my way ahead in the Rioting line.

--d!
Will that be Rioting or No Rioting, Ma'am?

[steelmania75]

18. We do need some riots rcrush.

I suggest places like Boston, New York City, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Denver, Seattle, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, D.C., Philadelphia, and Miami riot.

[FrenchieCat]

2. So what are you saying?

and how do we know there are no investigations going on?

Thanks.

[Idealism]

3. Are you accusing the market to be immoral, sir?

I am shocked, shocked to hear such commentary!

[JuniperLea]

4. I'm looking forward to the thieves doing jail time

That's what I call looking forward.

I'm looking forward to other thieves seeing their thieving pals in jail, and deciding it's not worth the risk to try those schemes again.

[texastoast]

7. The robber barons are not capitalists

They are mere lowly thieves.

Capitalists would allow the AIGs, banks, and car companies fall on their corporate asses, and the chips fall wherever.

Robber barons solicialize the thieves' failures.

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. They sure as hell are

[texastoast]

19. No, they are not

Capitalism allows failure.

These guys want you and me to pay for their failures. They want their failures socialized and to be able to capitalize on their successes.

That is not a true capitalist by any measure.

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. Capitalism allows the failure of specific businesses

It doesn't allow the failure of capitalism itself, or its law of value. Capitalism will - as history amply demonstrates - immediately opt for supposedly "non-capitalist" solutions (i.e., reliance on the state apparatus) whenever capitalism *itself* is in crisis, rather than this or that business within an overall capitalist system.

That's why the Friedmanesque "moral hazard" argument makes absolutely no sense in the current crisis, as free marketer Hank paulson learned very quickly when he applied it to Lehman. It was not a crisis of this or that business (i.e., Lehman), but a crisis of the entire structure of a capitalist social formation. This was immediately apparent within a day or two of the Lehman decision, which is why Paulson was forced (not chose, but was FORCED) to immediately reverse that ideological position and backstop AIG before the entire banking system collapsed, and the value of money along with it. Only those who rather comically believe that "capitalism" is a natural and necessary set of relations rather than historical and contingent form make such errors in level.

[texastoast]

23. Pish-tosh

As you said yourself, capitalism allows the failure of specific businesses, and all business can all come under that "specific" umbrella. If not, what, specifically, includes and defines those specifics?

Only the fearmongers will purport that the sky is falling. We have robber barons at the Henny-penny helm and nothing else. They are doing their level best to get us to socialize their failures.

Banks have failed before. We'll live.

[Gregorian]

8. Damn, Skippy.

He hijacked the train, derailed it, beat up a few passengers, took their pin numbers and handed out their savings to his gang members, and then walked away while flipping us off.

We knew it was going to be bad. But not quite this bad.

[Warpy]

9. What did you lose besides numbers?

I know I own what I did before and that I'm getting the same amount of income from it so far. I fully expect the income to decrease, but there's plenty of room left to economize.

Look at what you have, not what you had.

[taught_me_patience]

16. The administration must come out and show leadership

There is panic on wall street and we hear nothing from the administration. I honestly suspect that they don't know what to do.

[Stinky The Clown]

17. The fact is, they do NOT know what to do

The further fact is, no one else does, either.

In my view, they need to spend way more than they did and then deal with the inflation later.

But like I said ... no one knows what to do.

[taught_me_patience]

20. They need to appear do be doing something

I have a couple of ideas:

1) Announce that they will suspend mark-to-market accounting for bank that pass the "stress test"
2) Announce that they will actively pursue and prosecute naked short-sellers
3) Direct common equity injections

[katusha]

25. a healthy forest occasionally needs a fire...

to burn everything to the ground to continue the cycle of life.

not sure what i'm trying to say here other than vicodin is a hell of a drug!

[PurityOfEssence]

26. And we must NEVER nationalize or hire people without the indispensable genius of private enterprise

Never. Corporatism must reign supreme. The fundamental premise of the system just can't be wrong. It can't. It CAN'T.

Much as much of what the Administration's done is admirable, the unquestionable premise here is flawed: yes, capitalism works, but private enterprise must be seriously reined in by regulation even in the best of times (perhaps ESPECIALLY in the best of times) and it must be circumvented in the worst of times with market substitution and flat-out governmental intervention in a DIRECT manner. They don't get it. They can't accept it. They REFUSE to entertain this as even an outside possibility. Not only that, Geithner, Rubin et Al. will STILL expect to make HUGE, revolting, Emperor-worthy salaries at all times (except on occasional postings within government) and they fully expect to make everything they can when it works and be bailed out when it doesn't.

Wrong wrong wrong.

[TahitiNut]

27. Fools and their money are soon parted.

:shrug: "Greater Fool" is no longer a theory.