Single payer advocates apparently being excluded from health care discussions.

[madfloridian]

President Obama Must Include Single-Payer Advocates In National Health Care Debate

The president wants this process to be open and transparent, with the goal of achieving universal coverage. However, groups representing physicians, nurses, and consumers who advocate for a single-payer system of national health insurance have thus far been excluded from the summit.

Under a single-payer system, doctors, hospitals and other health care providers are paid from a single fund administered by the government. The system would eliminate the wasteful spending and high administrative costs of private insurance, saving almost $400 billion annually. This savings is enough to provide every American with the same high-quality care, including those who currently have insurance but still cannot afford medications and treatment.

If health care is a key to fixing our national deficit and providing the economic stimulus that we need to recover from this recession, it is unacceptable to ignore the only system that will provide true universal coverage. If the only people who have input on health care reform are the lobbyists who represent the interests of insurance and drug companies, the final result will be a system that benefits the insurance and drug companies.

The Clinton task force on health reform made a similar mistake of excluding the voices of those who support a single-payer system, and the result was a complicated, inadequate reform proposal that catered to the interests of insurance companies and failed to garner public support. At a time when public support for single-payer is greater than ever - more than 60 percent in recent polls - we urge President Obama not to make the same mistake. He must include single-payer advocates in the health care summit next week.

From National Nurses Movement's Blog at TPM:

Single payer only route to Obama's grand vision on healthcare reform

The insurance giants, of course, are not care providers. They are big corporations. They exist to make money, primarily to return profits for their shareholders. Every aspect of their operations are geared to that end.

Private insurance plans:

* Aren't universal because they exclude people based on pre-existing conditions or age or anyone else they think will be expensive to cover.
* Don't guarantee choice of physician or hospital, but limit you to their network of providers.
* Won't assure affordability because they are constantly raising premiums, deductibles, co-pays, and other fees to generate high revenues and profits.
* Can't guarantee safety and quality because they actively discourage the delivery of care or deny treatments, diagnoses, or referrals because they don't want to pay for it.
* Will never be fiscally responsible because there is no independent oversight, decisions are made in secret in closed board rooms or CEO offices, and, again, their priority is profits.

Thus any plan which sustains, protects, or expands the role of the insurance industry in healthcare cannot, by definition, achieve any of these worthy aims.

And words from a doctor who has Obama's ear, is a close advisor to him. He is also the brother to the Chief of Staff and has great influence.

Zeke Emanuel: Phase out Medicare and Medicaid

The Guaranteed Healthcare Access Plan proposes to repair the health care system by giving all Americans a voucher to select a standard benefits package offered by insurance company. In most areas, American will be able to choose between 5 and 8 insurance companies. And the insurance companies will be required to enroll anyone who wants and cannot exclude coverage for pre-existing conditions. The standard benefit package is based on what Congressman and Senators receive, and is more generous than what most Americans currently have through their employers or government program. Americans will also decide if they wanted to buy additional services, say wider selection of doctors and hospitals, more mental health benefits, or coverage for alternative medicines.

..."No one (I think he means to say "anyone") receiving Medicare, Medicaid, or any other government program will not be forced out, but there will be no new enrollees. People who turn 65 will simply stay in the Guaranteed Healthcare Access Plan. The special tax benefits related to employer based coverage will be eliminated and most employers will stop offering health insurance.

If Medicare is phased out then service levels will be lowered as funds are diverted elsewhere. That is a very sad option indeed.

It's interesting that Governor Dean was on MSNBC today to again push for a public option to be made available. He again explained that it would not be real reform without that option, which he suggested could be Medicare.

Video: Dean on MSNBC discussing health care

[FLAprogressive]

1. as someone else said before: "DLC baby! We was punked again!"

[DURHAM D]

11. Shhhhh...

This is no surprise but we are supposed to be quiet in order to allow so many to continue their denial in peace.

[FLAprogressive]

13. that's right, I forgot!

the people who think that the DLC Party (the new leaders of the Democratic Party) is liberal are fooling themselves.

the REAL Dems primarily exist in the Congressional Progressive Caucus and that's about it.

[truthrocks]

58. Health Care Summit WILL Have Single-Payer Adovocates

See below:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/04/obama-will-have-single-pa_n_171994.html

[Captain Hilts]

2. These negotiations are going to have a centrist, rather than liberal, starting point. We need...

to stop giving up too much even before negotiations begin.

[antigop]

6. I agree. Our starting point should be far left. n/t

[leftchick]

7. centrist? Ha!

It is more of the same corporatist bullshit which is right wing.

[Captain Hilts]

8. I'm trying to be polite. nt

[leftchick]

9. no point anymore

it should be obvious to everyone by now.

[Skittles]

30. YOU KNOW IT, LEFTCHICK

[midnight]

3. This is not good.

groups representing physicians, nurses, and consumers who advocate for a single-payer system of national health insurance have thus far been excluded from the summit.

[FLAprogressive]

4. but not a surprise. nt

[cadmium]

64. It is not true either.

http://www.nursingworld.org/MainMenuCategories/HealthcareandPolicyIssues/HSR/ANA-President-Attended-Summit-Conversations.aspx

[annabanana]

5. For all the attention that the online community has given to single-payer,

it is remarkable that nary a peep has leached through into Corpomedia and the national discussion.

[DaLittle Kitty]

61. John Russell Advocated for Single Payer Reform In 2006 and 2008!

http://www.johnrussellforcongress.com/page.asp?PageId=37

Share
The Solution for Health Care Consumers

* Commence the incremental transition to a National Single Payer Universal Health Care system through a competitive model utilizing a Medicare for All approach similar to the plan proposed by 2008 Presidential candidate John Edwards..
* Mandate that all health insurers will be required to use a uniform standardized health care claims reporting form.
* Mandate that all health care insurers be required to adhere to a uniform standard set of rules for claims submission for services reimbursement.
* Mandate that there will be a uniform standard of compensation per medical specialty for equivalent services rendered without arbitrary/preferential variation between differing health care providers per a given geographic/locality/region.
* Mandate a 25% federal tax deduction for physicians and other licensed Medicare-eligible primary health care providers based upon parameters established via Diagnostic Related Groups for care rendered to the indigent.
* Increase Medicare reimbursement levels so as to broaden program participation among physicians/health providers.
* Invest in preventative care targeted at known causes of increased morbidity/mortality e.g., Diabetes, Basic Dental Care.
* Increase funding for the National Institutes of Health, which currently performs nearly half of this country's research into new drugs and therapies. The pharmaceutical industry subsequently patents these drugs and sells them to the U.S. consumer. Drugs derived from this federally funded research should then enter the market WITHOUT PATENTS… given the substantial taxpayer investment in the development of these drugs thereby greatly decreasing the cost to government as well as consumers.
* Provide a “Means-Tested” Prescription Drug Plan for those without coverage.
* Improve Medicare reimbursement levels in rural areas.

PROPOSED SOLUTIONS IMPACT

The steps outlined above represent the first steps toward a universal single-payer health care program. It is the “Velcro” lining of the health insurance industry that is the root cause of the massive inefficiencies in our health care system. These solutions adopted wholly, or in part, will increase patient access as well as participation by qualified physicians and health care providers. Additionally by improving remuneration for medical services, we will begin to make medicine and the health sciences more attractive to those capable of enduring the rigors of preparation for these vital careers.

John Russell, MS/ARNP (Acute Care), MBA, Health Systems Management

[slipslidingaway]

10. K&R thanks n/t

[Tesha]

12. But *OF COURSE* we are! (NT)

[FrenchieCat]

14. I'm sorry, but I am missing it. Where does it say that

the Single Payer Health Plan advocates would not have a seat at the table?

I looked within the links that you provided,
but all I can tell is that the first two are urging that they be included,
but they do not say advocates will be excluded.....

Yet your threads states with certainty that Single payer advocates will apparently be excluded from health care discussions.

So I'm looking for the source of your "apparent" part in your words.

[madfloridian]

15. I must have just made it up, Frenchie. Manning the boards again?

No clues no hints pretty clear.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

19. Yes, I'm manning the boards......

Which to me means I'm reading headline, reviewing content and then making my comments.

What does "Manning the boards" mean to you? Cause I'm curious.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jim Sagle]

56. It means this is DU not OU.

[Occam Bandage]

17. I don't see any evidence that they aren't being included.

"There exists a single-payer advocate who isn't being included" is not evidence for that, nor is "there exists a non-single-payer-advocate who has been included." I'm sure he's not including enough single-payer advocates, but then again I'm sure he's not because he is anti-single-payer, which is disheartening.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

22. That would make sense....proactive constructive action

not done out of fear and panic and negativity, but out of belief of a principle and passion that it should be included.

But of course, that would be too simple and lack rancor.

[EraOfResponsibility]

24. waaaaay too simple

it's better to act like the right wingers and make shit up to scare the people. Yeah, that method works VERY effectively. :sarcasm:

[girl gone mad]

20. Can you show evidence that they are being included?

It's impossible to prove a negative.

[FrenchieCat]

23. Headline of thread is clear......

Single payer advocates apparently being excluded from health care discussions.

So that is the question.

Are they being excluded? do you know? Is there information contained in the links provided by OP that provides information that this is the case.

I read the links as stating that they "should" be included.....without stating any evidence that they aren't.

[Occam Bandage]

25. I can show no evidence either way. Neither can OP. We don't have a list or anything.

Unlike the OP, however, I am not trying to spin complete lack of knowledge as something it isn't.

[cadmium]

63. Watch Cspan archives.

Single Payor advocates Jan Schakowsky Dem of Illinois and Rebecca Patton RN American Nurse Associate president participated. They are not strident advocates but are advocates nonetheless. ANA has been for single payor for a few yrs. Barbara Blakeney RN was ANA President before Rebecca Patton and she is all for single payor.

[truedelphi]

48. It is very disheartening.

people on the fringes will not be able to afford Health Insurance if it is styled on the type of Health Insurance that the state of Massachusetts ahs.

[suffragette]

26. Looks like Zeke has been formulating this plan for awhile

http://healthpolicy.stanford.edu/news/the_universal_cure_20031121/

"The Universal Cure"

Appeared in New York Times, November 18, 2003

Authors
Victor R. Fuchs - Stanford University
Ezekiel J. Emanuel

What we need is a fair proposal that is simple, efficient and appealing to disparate constituencies. For more than a decade, as members of the medical and economics communities, we have advocated such an alternative: universal health care vouchers.

In a morally responsible country, everyone should have health insurance. Each family or individual would be given a voucher to purchase a policy that covered basic services, including doctor visits, hospitalization, pharmacy benefits, some mental health and dental care, and catastrophic coverage. People who want more services, like wider choices of specialists, could pay a premium over the basic voucher.

~snip~

A voucher system would also enable the government to end Medicaid and phase out Medicare. Having multiple health care systems squanders resources. All Medicaid recipients would receive vouchers. Each year, those who normally age into Medicare would be enrolled in the voucher plan instead. Current beneficiaries who preferred traditional coverage would not be forced to switch, although after total Medicare enrollment dropped sufficiently, the program would be amalgamated into the voucher system.

~snip~

Obviously, many details need to be elaborated. Nevertheless, vouchers hold the promise of securing wide support. Democrats have long favored the notion of universality, while Republicans instinctively favor voucher plans and have longed for the demise of Medicare and Medicaid. Businesses want to stop providing health insurance, and Americans want guaranteed health coverage with choice.


This really makes me nervous. A plan such as this could be pushed as a Universal Health Care plan, but it goes in the wrong direction by doing away with Medicare. I would hope there would be some voices at the table, such as PNHP, who could be relied upon to point out the problems with such an approach, but that doesn't look likely. Very worrisome.

[madfloridian]

27. It makes me nervous also.

I think Obama had single payer included in his plans, but there are so many powerful voices taking the discussion to new directions.

A plan like that would really only be requiring universal coverage.

[suffragette]

28. It really is the difference between universal coverage

and universal care, isn't it?

I think the language describing the different proposals is confusing and language matters.

To be honest, I think most people are ready for nationalized health care, and that is the type of system they think of when they hear universal. But "universal" was co-opted to include coverage plans by the Republicans when they started realizing that. Then organizations like PNHP started using "single payer" to differentiate. Love PNHP, but that is the last term I would use. It sounds like completely privatized, pay-out-of-your own pocket from wages insurance coverage. I know that's not what it is, but that is what it sounds like and that's the impression people get at first. The term takes too much explaining.

Then you have something like Zeke's proposal. In sound bites, that could be made to sound more appealing, just because of the terms used even though it is going in the wrong direction.

GRRRRR!

What I really still would like to see happen is for HR 676 to get passed in Congress and land on Obama's desk for his signature.

And I truly think it's really the direction most people want.

[eridani]

29. Everybody posting on this issue needs to put up or shut up

That means calling or emailing your congresscritters once a week on the issue, regardless of their party. Ditto emailing change.gov and calling the White House hotline.

[OneBlueSky]

31. seems that someone has planted a worm in Obama's ear that . . .

continually tells him "it's politically impossible" . . . seems logical that the ones who planted said ear worm are the very insurance and pharmaceutical companies that have the most to gain from not having a universal single payer system . . . also seems that the brother of his chief of staff is among the opponents of single payer . . .

Obama needs to start listening to different people on this issue now . . . and that will only happen if they're invited to the party -- which, as of now, they are not . . .

all because of that ear worm . . .

[maryf]

32. March 5 is call the WH day for single payer

Call The White House: Let Single Payer In

On Thursday, March 5, 2009, the White House will host a summit on how to
reform the healthcare system.

The 120 invited guests include lobbyists for various interest groups
including the private-for-profit insurance industry (AHIP), some members
of Congress including Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus who has already
ruled single payer “off the table,” and various others concerned with
healthcare.

No single payer advocates have been invited to attend.

Please urge President Obama to fulfill his promise for transparency and
openness in government

Call The White House [phone] or [phone].

Tell them to let single payer into the White House Summit on healthcare.


Distributed by:
All Unions Committee For Single Payer Health Care--HR 676
c/o Nurses Professional Organization (NPO)
1169 Eastern Parkway, Suite 2218
Louisville, KY 40217
[phone]
Email: [e-mail]
http://unionsforsinglepayerHR676.org
03/03/09

[madfloridian]

33. Thank you, I was just going to post that..."no single payer advocates invited"

More from nyceve's diary at Daily Kos.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/3/3/111940/4558/728/704063

[madfloridian]

34. This same topic is top of rec list at Kos. In this thread here I am called a liar.

One person actually said I lied, two others made it sound that way.

I guess anything goes here now. Kind of sad. I am not known to lie and make stuff up

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/3/3/111940/4558/728/704063

On Thursday, March 5, 2009, the White House will host a summit on how to
reform the healthcare system.

The 120 invited guests include lobbyists for various interest groups
including the private-for-profit insurance industry (AHIP), some members
of Congress including Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus who has already
ruled single payer "off the table," and various others concerned with
healthcare.

No single payer advocates have been invited to attend.

Please urge President Obama to fulfill his promise for transparency and
openness in government

Call The White House [phone] or [phone].

nyceve whose diary is at the top of the rec list at Kos is not lying. Neither am I.

More from Huff Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-kirsch/the-honeymoons-over-healt_b_171169.html



Tell them to let single payer into the White House Summit on healthcare.

[madfloridian]

35. From nyceve at Kos: Conyers not invited to summit.

"UPDATE:

There were several comments asking whether John Conyers, the father of single payer and HR 676 would be at the White House Summit. I made some inquiries and have the following information.

I just received a phone call from a source who wishes not to be identified at this time. He advised that Chairman Conyers was not invited to the White House Healthcare Summit. I was also told that Dr. Quentin Young and Dr. Marcia Angell were proposed as participants, but are also not attending.

You are obviously free to draw your own conclusions."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/3/3/111940/4558/728/704063

So those who call us liars, go ahead. This is too serious a matter to take lightly.

[madfloridian]

41. Conyers not invited. Sounds like single payer is out on its butt.

I hope not.

[serrano2008]

36. Hmmmm, imagine that.

People who don't understand the problem but know that "Universal Health Care" is the solution though they don't seem to have any reasons why or how, aren't included in the decisions.

Maybe they actually want helpful ideas instead of just people talking in circles about how it works for Denmark so it must work for us.

[madfloridian]

37. What an arrogant statement. But this is America, that is your right.

To say what you wish that is.

Maybe you agree with Zeke....turn it over to private insurance and phase out Medicare.

Looks like that is what they are going to do.

[serrano2008]

57. Thanks!

Really, I've tried having intelligent discussions about the health care system on here and usually the only response I get is that Universal Health Care is the answer because private insurance companies are greedy.

The governement's greedy too and all of the problems in our current health care system will still exist under Universal Health Care, unless we work to solve those problems rather than just say that Universal Health Care will fix everything without acknowledging that it won't fix many things.

[madfloridian]

38. Kick for the truth.

If single payer options are shut out, we are not going to get real change.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x279581

[Tranqu]

39. This is about locking in profits for health insurance companies...

...not healthcare.

[Thothmes]

40. It seems to me that the current administration

has absolutly no intentions of even considering a single payer health care system for the American people.

[maryf]

42. Kick for the truth, II nt

[madfloridian]

43. Dem. Max Baucus: ""America is not ready for single pay"

From Time Magazine today:

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1882824,00.html

"At a breakfast with reporters on Tuesday morning, Baucus predicted that his committee could have legislation on the Senate floor as early as June, adding, "The conversation is going great guns." Among the ideas the six-term Montana Senator said he is willing to consider is one that has significant support among Republicans: changing the tax treatment of employer-provided health benefits, so that they might not be fully deductible for companies that provide them, and would be treated as income for the workers who receive them. Health-care experts say this would have the effect of encouraging more people to buy their insurance individually, rather than getting it where they work. This approach has been criticized by many Democrats — including Obama, when John McCain embraced a version of it during the election campaign — who contend that relying on the individual market would put health-care consumers at a disadvantage to big insurance companies.

But one proposal apparently not on his table is the dream of many liberals — a government-run system known as single-payer. The health-care plan that Baucus presented last year would give individuals aged 55 to 64 the opportunity to buy into Medicare, but he dismissed the idea that this could open the door to a single-payer system. "America is not ready for single pay," he said. "We are a bit different from people in other countries. We're not Europe. We're not Canada. We're America ... I think we need to come up with a uniquely American solution." (See the most common hospital mishaps.)

[EndElectoral]

44. mr. Baucus...America has been desperately ready for Single Payer for the last two decades. WTFU!

[EndElectoral]

45. The fear of the insurance lobby will f*** this up badly!

[Hawkowl]

46. Disaster

What we have is President Obama pushing for universal INSURANCE, not universal HEALTHCARE. This has always been his position and I've always thought it was a shit position.

We are not ready for what the rest of the civilized world has. Bullshit Mr. President. Fucking BULLSHIT.

[Mithreal]

49. The citizens are ready, the insurance providers and for-profit hospitals not so much. nt

[kaygore]

47. Howard Dean is my hero. I wish that Obama held him in higher regard.

In fact, I think less of Obama for excluding Dean and single-payer public health care.

[Political Heretic]

65. Ummm Howard Dean OPPOSES single payer.

He even said so:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/04/dean-on-health-care/

[Better Believe It]

50. K & R

[olegramps]

51. Privatization of Medicare and Medicaid?

I can just imagine the insurance companies licking their chops. This is analogous to the Wall Street brokers pushing for privatization of Social Security. As a person on Medicare, after my retirement benefits that provided medical insurance and prescription coverage were priced out of reach to drive people out of the plan, I had only one option that was to enroll in the Medicare Prescription plan run by the insurance companies. This sounds like another rip off.

The problem with the insurance scheme, as I see it, is that it isn't mandatory. Young, healthy people are going to be disinclined to purchase insurance. It would be analogous to young people opting out of paying Social Security. If everyone is made to contribute, then the cost of providing health care is equalized out over your life time. Yes, some people may need more care than others, but would anyone except insurance companies want to let them suffer without adequate health care?

[eridani]

52. If you are on the Left Coast--

6AM is a good time to call if you have gotten up or haven't gon to bed.

[jwirr]

53. At the very least those of us who want a single payer system should

work to maintain a choice of public/private system. One where people can select the government medicare option. I also think that they should vote on both systems - single payer and private insurance - and if we cannot get enough votes for the first then we will turn to the other option with both a medicare/private insurance option. My concern is getting the votes we need to get a bill passed.

I remember that when social security was first passed it did not include farmers. In the 1950s the farmers were added in. We need to get the best universal system that we can and then work to improve it if we have to. First we fight for the single payer system though.

[debbierlus]

54. Dean is going to take them on through DFA. He state Health Care would be a priority

And, I am giving my money to Democracy For America instead of the establishment DINOS who won't work for the people.

Enough.

Obama's plan SUCKS. The whole thing is based around keeping our health care system a for profit corporate welfare scheme.

[PassingFair]

55. They will try to handle it via tax write-offs.

Mark it.

[madfloridian]

59. Yes, he is. We donated again yesterday.

I hear they were pleased at the number of people who responded.

[madfloridian]

60. I hear Conyers sent an email today that he was invited.

Maybe all our griping about it mattered.

[cadmium]

62. Single payor advocates were included. I watched

for about an hour today and saw Rebecca Patton RN American Nurse Association President and Jan Schakowsky D-Illinois both of whom are for a Single payor system. I am guessing that if I saw two casually watching for an hour that there were probably more. I specifically made it a point to watch some of it because I read the Kos diary that said that there were no single payor advocates invited and that did not seem like it could be true.