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Florida's CSX deal..from $491 million in 2006, to $650 million in 08, to 2.6 billion this year.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 12:20 PM
Original message
Florida's CSX deal..from $491 million in 2006, to $650 million in 08, to 2.6 billion this year.
Edited on Mon Mar-02-09 12:25 PM by madfloridian
Florida's CSX deal..from $491 million in 2006, to $650 million in 08, to 2.6 billion this year.

And as this powerful editorial in The Ledger today points out....no one in the Republican legislature really pays much attention to it. It will bring much damage to the way of life in Central Florida along the I-4 Corridor...politicians don't seem concerned.

CSX Sunrail deal grows unaffordable.

All of this nonchalance by our politicians toward this massive rail expansion at the public's expense....all of this during one of the worst times in Florida's economic history.

Questions already swirl about the enormity of the project's price tag. So far, the Florida Department of Transportation is prepared to dole out$795 million in state money - $432 million to CSX for acquisition of its A Line and to make improvements on CSX's other Florida tracks.

Meanwhile, local governments in Orange, Volusia, Seminole and Osceola counties are on tap to kick in another $764 million toward the project. Add to that hundreds of millions in federal matching money, and start-up and operational costs, and the state DOT's own estimate for the total tab for getting SunRail up and going comes in at about $2.6 billion.

Remember, too, that this started out as a $491 million deal in 2006. By last spring, it was at $650 million. Now, by the state DOT's own figures, the total buildout carries a price tag of $2.6 billion. Yet many legislators in Tallahassee seem unconcerned.


All in the midst of the state's worst financial crisis in memory - maybe history. All with little public debate or vetting.RIDERSHIP ESTIMATESNow comes ridership projections from the Florida Department of Transportation. If anything should cause the Legislature to pause and take stock of this massive public-works proposal and its potential return on investment, it is this analysis. The DOT projects that by 2030 - that's right, two decades from now - an estimated 14,500 passengers a day would use SunRail. That from a metropolitan area whose population is forecast to be about 3.5 million in 2030.


All that money and corporate socialism directed toward CSX to only take 14,500 passengers off the interstate in 20 years?

This is ridiculous. Charlie Crist could stop it, but he does not seem inclined.

As we have lamented in this space before, teachers are being laid off, health care is being curtailed, unemployment insurance and food stamp requests are soaring, schools are closing and public-safety positions are being left vacant, yet our lawmakers seem unbothered by the prospect of spending billions on a commuter rail line that in 20 years is projected to serve just 14,500 Central Floridians daily.


This same paper has been almost a lone voice. It has condemned this outlay of cash before.

Outrage. Florida's economy crashes, state holds $795 million in cool cash for CSX.

Who, exactly, is running state government, and what happened to checks and balances?


Good question, and the answer is no one is really in charge. They are all running around like headless chickens, each one claiming to be the most conservative government-hating Republican of all.

While Florida lawmakers were making a billion-dollar raid on trust funds, draining the state's rainy-day fund, and slashing education, health care and social services last week to balance the state budget, the Department of Transportation was sitting on a cool $795 million in ready cash set aside for a sweetheart deal that may not even come to fruition.

The money is in hand and awaiting finalization of a deal between the DOT and CSX that would create a commuter line in the Orlando area. The state's plan to buy 61 miles of rail line for the Orlando commuter train would force CSX to shift much of its freight traffic to its S Line, which travels through the center of the state, including Lakeland, and already carries a large number of trains daily.

What is puzzling about the CSX deal is that, to hear our lawmakers talk, it hinges on resolving a question of liability when CSX uses the Orlando commuter rails on off-peak hours. Why aren't the fiscal conservatives or the fiscally responsible in Tallahassee asking why the state of Florida is paying a national corporation that made a record $2.2 billion profit last year - up 26 percent from the year before, incidentally - so much for a project that some observers say could be done for one-third or less than the current price tag?


This is corporate socialism at its worst.

As state Rep. Curtis Richardson, D-Tallahassee, complained last week: "Over the past eight years we have given $18 billion in tax relief to the richest 2 percent of our population and corporate special interests. Now that the economic times have turned, we choose to place the burden on balancing the budget on those who are least able to afford it."

..."The only sure winners in such public-private accommodations are the corporate owners and executives who use public dollars to offset their internal costs and artificially pad their bottom lines. Aren’t they clever?


This is one of Jeb's legacies to Florida.

Much of the funding for the $491 million, a first-of-a-kind deal for a private company, was accomplished in the 2005 session of the Florida Legislature. The Tampa Tribune reported in its Nov. 28 edition that few legislators knew of the Bush-backed Senate Bill 360 where the funding was inserted just before midnight on the last day of the legislative session, May 6.

Perhaps it's worth knowing that Ward's CSX predecessor was John Snow, who left CSX to head up the U.S. Treasury Department for Gov. Bush's brother, President George W. Bush.

It helps to have friends in high places.


The Florida Democrats need to yell and holler on this.

The Florida Republicans need to start caring more about our state and less about their ideology....

and Charlie Crist needs to act like a governor and veto everything to do with this project for now.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. More details on the huge costs.
http://wpmobserver.com/WPMObserver/article.asp?ID=1530

"Less than a week away from the State Legislature's next session, in which many lawmakers plan to push hard to finalize plans for SunRail, Dockery announced SunRail's cost would swell to more than $2.66 billion, according to figures Dockery said she pulled from the FDOT.

..."The new numbers have Winter Park City Commissioner Beth Dillaha wondering why the deal is being pursued without more scrutiny of its financial implications. Dillaha had previously called into question the costs of the system, which she said were too high for the state to afford.

"I have never been in favor of the taxpayers being taken advantage of," Dillaha said.

The new dollar figure released by Dockery included the already known $491 million in track acquisition costs from rail company CSX, plus $615.4 million in capital costs, including $150 million to build five rail overpasses near Ocala and $397 million for rail cars. Counties are expected to pay more than $207 million of that. The newest addition to those figures is a $947.7 million cost for operations and maintenance over the course of the next 30 years.

At the start of March the Florida Legislature will begin deliberating the financial liabilities of the plan, but Dockery said the state's deal to buy tracks from CSX — the most expensive acquisition per mile in U.S. history — isn't being questioned.

"It is unfortunate that for a deal of this magnitude, the only question facing the Florida Legislature is whether to force taxpayers to pay for the negligence of a Fortune 500 company," Dockery wrote in a released statement."

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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's now 1:00 pm
Do you know where your tax dollars are?

Time to stop paying them!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I can't believe they are letting this deal go through...
when our state is in such terrible trouble.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. George Bush's Treasury Secy' John Snow -- Google it
Add CSX for a more enlightening search.

.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yep, that very same John Snow. Jeb and John Snow...screwing Florida
for years now. A deal so secret not even some Republican legislators knew about it.

:wow:
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vinylsolution Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Jeeez, how low do Republicans have to go....
... to get Floridians marching on Tallahassee?

If this was happening in France, there would be a million people on the streets of the capital.

(and all of their sheep, too)





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Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. OutSourcing is
expensive.
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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. Isn't this socialism, which conservatives argue against so fervently?
1. The state is taking ownership of a private entity
2. The state will receive all receipts of operation
3. The state will be liable for all actions concerning SunRailk
4. The state will contract out maintenance to CSX

Why did the state take ownership of SunRail in the first place? Why not let it remain private, but just make investments to improve its quality. The state could guarantee $1 billion for a percent stake in the company, but otherwise let the company do everything itself, including keeping receipts of operation. The company would remain liable for actions concerning the rail line, and the company would be responsible for maintaining all state and federal regulations and upkeep of capital.


Florida fucked themselves over on this one. It seems that the GOP is pro-socialism when it will enrich private entities at the cost of society, but are anti-socialism when it will provide social benefit to the people.
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Mugweed Donating Member (939 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. Characterizing it as $2.6 billion going to CSX is wrong
While this whole deal just keeps getting more and more expensive...and never appeared to be in the real interest of Central Florida to begin with....the idea of attributing the total costs of $2.6 billion to CSX alone seems deliberately disingenuous. Excluding the extortion payoff to CSX, other costs include environmental clearance and clean-up of the 61-mile line, geotechnical evaluations for track and bridge upgrades, environmental clearance and clean-up for all properties to be purchased for the construction of stations, geotechnical evaluations of station properties for construction, architecture and design of the stations and platforms, razing and site preparation for stations, construction of stations...plus the costs of setting up the ticketing/personnel/etc.

This project has created many jobs in Central Florida already. For staffing of firms that won contracts for various aspects of the tasks involved. I know no-one wants to see that side of it. It's easier just to demonize. It sounds like the same thing the Republicans are doing about the stimulus package.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I did not do that. The Ledger did not either. I will find some more stuff.
They are not having to abide by environmental laws, they could go ahead and create their own reality.

This is destroying many areas of Central Florida. You can kiss the new redeveloped downtown area of Lakeland good by. The freight trains will break up the city hours of the day. Traffic will be snarled up.

I am sure some love it, but most do not. I have found some other stuff.

CSX told they can start building railroad center before any planning reviews are done.

More:

CSX is taking over areas of Central Florida with little or no oversight.

More:

Outrage. Florida's economy crashes, state holds $795 million in cool cash for CSX.

Yeh, I know, it doesn't REALLT mean in cold cash.

Besides it was a double secretive secret deal which is only going to really benefit CSX.
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Mugweed Donating Member (939 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I agree that it doesn't appear to benefit many
and that is was a secret deal that is suspicious. CSX owns a lot of land here, and can pretty much call the shots until the Florida government is no longer run by their best friends. Rerouting industrial traffic from the A line to the S line wasn't a great solution. I agree that Lakeland will be a mess. I don't even know what kind of other mass transportation they have planned once people get out of their cars and into the trains. How do they get from the train station to their job?
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Dr.Phillips Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. What the problem? We don't need schools the governor needs to get payed!!
What is the problem people! We don't need schools!!! Even though the school system in FL sucks is under funded, etc. The railroad is more important than educating our children. Come on Charlie get your head out!!! How about some help for all these mortgage crisis people preyed on by lenders. http://www.thepremiumproperties.com">Orlando Realtor
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. That's a good post to start out on DU with, Dr. Phillips. WELCOME!
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. How much is the excess money due to land deals?
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Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. I can't agree with you more!
:dem:
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. The American Kleptocracy......
n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yes.
It is.

:hi:
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-02-09 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. isn't there a florida forum for local-interest stories?
so florida is a corrupt shithole of a state...what's new? :shrug:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Odd comment
Not sure what point you are making.

:shrug:
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