***Official FBI Oversight - Judiciary Committee Thread***

[Eurobabe]

On C-Span3 now. 9:30am

Leahy starting intro. Disturbed with Patriot Act, re: Attorneys, and bungled NSL letters.

[Eurobabe]

1. Abuses. FBI sat idle, did nothing to stop the abuses

Leahy wants to know what FBI is doing to stop these abuses. Staffing shortages. FBI at crossroads.

[Eurobabe]

4. "Dir. Mueller takes responsibility"

Learning curve has gone on far too long. I hope our oversight will make this possible. Specter up now.

"War against terrorism is deadly serious. 9-11 could have been prevented. "

[Hepburn]

9. Was he sworn in?

Did anyone notice?

[in_cog_ni_to]

20. Here it is! He's being sworn in. Leahy would never let him testify

if he wasn't sworn in.:)

[Connie_Corleone]

2. Kick

[WinkyDink]

3. Link:

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan3_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3

[Eurobabe]

11. Specter: Everytime we turn around there is a serious problem

"Lack of confident in FBI, widespread and serious misuse. Oversight inconsistent."

Terrorism reporting: IG says reporting is haphazard. Laptops: missing, ?

FBI provided inaccurate data for warrants.

RE: NSLs, Inspector General found inconsistencies, reckless indifference re: reporting, intentional misconduct (?)

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. Thank you for the link. I don't get the SPAN 3.

:( Thanks!

[Hepburn]

5. Thanks for starting an Official Thread. n/t

[bdamomma]

6. feed us cube rats!! I hope Leahy gets them all.

[helderheid]

7. First rec! First rec!

[Hepburn]

13. Specter going on about...

...FBI agents signing exigent letters where there was no exigent cirucmstances.

[napi21]

8. Sounds like Specter isn't happy with the FBI either!

Now reading last weeks report from the Inspector General which cited 3 problems!

[napi21]

15. Isn't it oddthat Specter is talking to Mueller about the Lam resisgnation?

He said the FIB has an affirmative duty to report such matters.

[Eurobabe]

19. yeah, they know something n/t

[Hepburn]

18. Wow....

...does that ever seem to be correct.

He is going on about a political firing of Lam and that the FBI should have come to the chair and ranking member of the Judic committee and should have reported this because the political firings threatened on going investigations of corruption.

No, he does NOT appear to be too happy with them at all!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

10. It's also available here on webcast for The Judiciary Committee

http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearing.cfm?id=2569

[Eurobabe]

14. Specter: go to an MI5 type situation?

re: Lam, questioning about why she was fired, ongoing investigations.

[Eurobabe]

16. Mueller is getting his ass handed to him, slightly burned

[Hepburn]

21. And the questioning has not even started! n/t

[Eurobabe]

17. Mueller testifying UNDER OATH, just sworn in

[Hepburn]

22. Thanks....

...I was wondering if I had missed that!

[Eurobabe]

23. Mueller, FBI undergoing transformation for 5.5 yrs

(WTF is taking so long??)

Mueller: terrorist plots thwarted, corporate fraud unconvered, etc.

Many successes due to NSLs.

[hang a left]

26. Terrorist plots thwarted...

Really now, then what are they still doing in the WH??

[Sydnie]

24. "and a partridge in a pear tree"

that's the only thing Mueller left out of his list of all the thngs that the FBI has accomplished!

What a dick!

[Eurobabe]

25. Mueller says the FBI fell short in notifying congress re: # of NSLs

used, etc. He (Mueller) is taking steps to rectify this now.

[Hepburn]

27. Mueller going on about the IG did not find...

...any INTENTIONAL bad conduct on the letters, etc. But saying the needed internal controls to make sure that the letters were correctly used. He says he is responsible to make sure it does not happen again. He says he is taking steps to make sure FBI is in compliance with statutes and guidelines. Yada, yada about FBI helping to protect the country against a terrorist attack. FBI taking steps to make things right.

Going into specifics about use of the letters. Cites 911 and why counter terrorism is crucial. Giving examples of what was done to basically help make country safe. Says they did things like enhancing info sharing and ways to communicate. Basically giving the FBI some "atta boys."

[Eurobabe]

28. Mueller NSLs are essential to fighting terra

NSLs: every counter-terrorism lead must be addressed. (Going through a whole laundry list of what the FBI has done in past 5.5 yrs. to update FBI.) Plots investigated: Brooklyn Bridge, airliners, Synagogues in LA, etc.

[Sydnie]

29. Who are the two guys shuffling papers behind him?

They are very distracting. What could those papers be ... his statement?

[Eurobabe]

30. Mueller does not believe the statute in the P.A. should be changed!

[bdamomma]

45. these guys are following the bush crime families orders

can't it be any clearer.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

31. Dupe. eom

[Hepburn]

32. Mueller very clear on that letter statute should not be changed.

Just saying that the way it is dealt with should be handled better.

Says the American people understand how essential Natl Sec Letters are to the War on Terra.

Anyone think we shouls start counting how many times he refers to 9-11 and terrorists, terrorism? Sheesh.

[Hepburn]

33. Mueller very clear on that letter statute should not be changed.

Just saying that the way it is dealt with should be handled better.

Says the American people understand how essential Natl Sec Letters are to the War on Terra.

Anyone think we should start counting how many times he refers to 9-11 and terrorists, terrorism? Sheesh.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

34. Mueller listing now some debunked terra threats and Leahy called him on it by

saying he wants to talk about it in closed session.

[Eurobabe]

35. Leahy cutting off Mueller, too much blah-blah

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

38. Not blah blah blah..Mueller was talking about terra threats, some of them which

have been debunked as being anywhere near viable. That's why Leahy talked about closed session and the Bklyn Bridge "plot".

[Hepburn]

36. Leahy just interrrupted Mueller's statement.

But phone rang and I missed a lot of what Leahy said. Sounded like he wanted him to get back on point ~~ but not sure.

[Eurobabe]

37. Mueller: with our contractor LOCKHEED, rolling out Sentinel

program

[Eurobabe]

39. Mueller, backtracking re: NSLs, we value civil liberties

ending his statement now taking questions

[Hepburn]

40. Mueller now talking about violent crimes and gangs.

And FBI task forces going after this. Says #1 priority is still terrorism, but this is important, too.

Edit for typo in title ~~ sorry!

[Eurobabe]

41. Leahy, has serious qualms about Mueller's statement

[Hepburn]

47. Yep, he sure does.

Going after the disclosure about letters and talking about libraries and other abuses on what the FBI did to look into people.

Using the word abuse a lot.

[Sydnie]

42. "we need the money to support the well run police forces of Iraq"

:rofl:

[Norquist Nemesis]

43. What? Bush is saying money from COPS program is being taken out

in order to provide funds for 'the well-run police force in Iraq'?

[napi21]

44. HAA! Leahey said maybe FBI doesn't have enough $$ because the Prez

needs the funds for the upstanding, well run police force in IRAQ!

[Eurobabe]

46. Leahy: Library records under patriot act

causes me problems. re: Windsor CT library, re: computer in library. Gag order on librarians. Abuse of NSL. LEt's check records on this computer, but not tell anyone we've done it. Because you are gagging the librarians.

[Norquist Nemesis]

48. Leahy: This is Kafka at the extreme

[Eurobabe]

49. Leahy, how many times have you issued NSLs to libraries?

[Hepburn]

50. Leahy asking Mueller...

...how often the FBI abused this in going after info at libraries and ed facilities.

Mueller saying he did not think the FBI ever abused it authority on this and Leahy keeps interrupting on HOW MANY TIMES???? And Mueller said he did not know. Leahy says, can we get that info BEFORE the end of the hearing? Mueller says he thinks so.

[Solly Mack]

51. I'm listening

I don't have any use for any aspect of the "Patriot" Act

and I don't see the need to give the FBI another chance to "abuse" their power

and they will

and I'm not buying into any rationalizations that allow the FBI to "abuse" their power of office...

though the spin is the FBI gave "inaccurate" information in order to secure court approval, the use of the word "inaccurate" is right up there with "mistakes made"

No...the FBI lied...the FBI falsified



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x512688

[Hepburn]

54. IMO, this provision NEEDS to go.

It's NOT like those records are gonna get up and walk away or be destroyed. It is just purely and simply, IMO, a way for the govt to stick its nose into private matters and spy on us.

[Solly Mack]

55. I want the entire thing gone

and removing provisions is a good start....but the "Patriot" Act needs to go

[Hepburn]

88. Totally agree. n/t

[Eurobabe]

52. Leahy: we learn these things through the press, re: FISA

procedures are not being followed. Leahy basically saying WTF is going on?

[Eurobabe]

53. New computer program to log NSLs coming online end of year

Leahy: was any evidence unlawfully obtained?

Mueller: yes, probable inconsistencies. How could this have happened? Procedures for NSLs, recorded by office of General Counsel. Mueller, I didn't put in a compliance program (what a dumb fuck!)

[Eurobabe]

56. Specter: Does FBI have sufficient funding to protect US from

another terrorist attack?

Mueller: Items we need and want.

AS: how much do you need $$$?

RM: I will provide that info to you.

[Hepburn]

57. Specter up now.

Asking about funding needed to protect the USA from another terrorist attack. Mueller does not have info ~~ the usual ans of "I will provide."

Next subject: San Diego Union Trib ~~ Jan 13th story re Lam and continued employment crucial to success to investigations. Asking Mueller if her employment was critical to on going investigations.

Mueller denies this.

[Eurobabe]

58. AS: Lam's employment crucial to ongoing success of

operations?

Questioning RM re: Carol Lam.

AS: Had you heard that the FBI chief thought that Lam's employment was critical to these investigations?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

59. Specter asking about Lam. Asks Mueller if Lam was needed to continue her prosecution of corruption.

Mueller says no. Specter follows up with a statement that the FBI chief in San Diego said she was necessary. Mueller said that FBI chief was misquoted......

[Eurobabe]

60. AS: bringing up Inglesias now

FBI conducts investigations, was Inglesias correct on vote fraud decision?

RM: I don't know facts on that case.

[bdamomma]

68. what a bunch of liars, what a cover up by these thuggish criminals

[Eurobabe]

61. AS: Bringing up McKay's case now

Mueller: McKay was innovative in the way he brought deparments together, components in database. I am not certain what they are referring to in that article.

[Hepburn]

62. SD head of FBI said Lam was critical...

...but Mueller disagrees.

Now Specter on to Iglesias case. Notes Iglesias is a Mexican American. Now speaking about the timing of a criminal prosecution that Iglesias did not bring. Mueller responds that he has not heard anything from FBI field office there.

On to issue of John McKay ~~ FBI concerns about a Seattle case and sharing of information. Mueller says McKay was doing a data base funded by the Navy. To what extent should info be put into data base. The only question.

[napi21]

63. Gee! Is Mueller covering Gonzo's a**? n/t

[napi21]

65. Oops! Spector's NOT impressed with the FBI! I don't believe there are

thousands of facts, and BTW, THAT'S YOUR JOB!

[blm]

71. Mueller was the US attorney covering up for BushInc on BCCI - he is a longtime fixer

for the BFEE.

[Solly Mack]

73. weeds...just a bunch of weeds

but then they never are pulled out by the root are they?

[Hepburn]

64. Specter talking about bad affidavits on warrant letters...

...Mueller, mistakes can be made because 1,000s of facts. Mueller talking about additional steps to be taken.

LOL, Specter says he is NOT impressed. Says that the agents were to be accurate in their statements.

Feinstein up now.

[Hepburn]

66. Feinstein...

...on the SB Trib article on Lam:

Asking about the issue of Lam being crucial. Feinstein followed up on what the FBI head said. And they verified it. And....STATES THAT THEY HAD BEEN WARNED TO SAY NO MORE!

Mueller admits this and says it because they are not to comment on public matters. Spec Agents should not comments on personnel matters in the DOJ.

[madokie]

67. damn we need a cspan3 tee vee channel

if people would watch some of these, even if only a little bit, it will change the way they see our government work, I no I did when I started watching. Once we get past this no good som bithes in the whitehouse now I will go back to pretty much watching the cspan channels, I find it stimulating

thanks for the heads up :hi:

[napi21]

69. I agree. Maybe we should all contact our respective cable co's

aat one time and ask for it!

[Norquist Nemesis]

70. Mueller pushing the WH Miers advice explaining the USA firings

being "no comment on personnel decisions". The WH is trying to set up a trap folks. Shutting down the investigative hearings by putting a label of "personnel decisions, no comment".

From a GDP thread I just read: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3183990
EXCLUSIVE: DOJ Official Ignored White House Guidance
The official, Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty, ignored White House Counsel Harriet Miers and senior lawyers in the Justice Department when he told the committee last month of specific reasons why the administration fired seven U.S. attorneys — and appeared to acknowledge for the first time that politics was behind one dismissal. McNulty's testimony directly conflicted with the approach Miers advised, according to an unreleased internal White House e-mail described to ABC News. According to that e-mail, sources said, Miers said the administration should take the firm position that it would not comment on personnel issues.

[Norquist Nemesis]

72. Whew! Thank goodnes for Jeff Sessions

Having him spew gives me an opportunity to go and cook breakfast! Back in five.

[Eurobabe]

74. Yeah, I went back to making my goulash!

:rofl:

[Hepburn]

75. Actually....

....Sessions is NOT giving Mueller a pass. Kind of surprising.

[WinkyDink]

76. Mmmmmmm.......goulash.......

And buttered noodles, and sour cream,....where was I?

[Eurobabe]

79. it's in the slow cooker, stinking up the house

actually it is a beef based goulash, with paprika and tomato paste. Slightly spicy, very yummy with noodles. Dinner!!

[Iwasthere]

80. mmmmmmmmm

Great comfort food. I love goulash

[Norquist Nemesis]

78. Perfect timing! Cardin up

Mueller has to 'consult' about the number of NSL and how they're reported. :eyes:

[Eurobabe]

77. Cardin questioning, re: # of NSLs, why isn't that made public?

[Eurobabe]

81. Kyl: talking about the P.A. statute, "why keep it?"

Relevance standard, explain it please.

RM: 3rd party records become building blocks for further investigation. Compliance coming on board now

JK: re: gag rule, why? RM: Confidentiality request is essential. Talking about how questioning an ISP could tip off the person that he/she was being surveiled.

[Eurobabe]

82. Feingold up now

[Eurobabe]

84. R Feingold: without the IG investigation this would have never come to light?

RM: Yes.

RF: I appreciate the FBI is now taking steps to correct this, will you give us progress on ongoing reviews? RM: Yes, we'll see on that.

RF: Warning signs were there.

RF: Do you think that the FBI should be able to get the information on someone 3 steps removed from a terrorist suspect?

[Hepburn]

83. Feingold is up.

Leahy says after Russ, Hatch is up.

Feingold questioning ~~ about the way that the misuse of the NSL was uncovered. Only because of the IG is what Russ is saying.

[Eurobabe]

85. Feingold: we all have reason to be concerned about abuse

referring to last weeks' hearings on differences between FBI and NSA. Transparency vs. secrecy flavor of the departments.

[Eurobabe]

86. Hatch up: disagree with my colleagues re: getting rid of P.A. statute

Figures. :eyes:

[Sydnie]

87. Whitehouse is asking the tough question

Should Monica remain in her job if she takes the fifth when requested to testify about her official duties? Good question! Glad he got it on the record.

[Eurobabe]

89. Grassley up now: asking about transcript from Special Agent Michael German

re: white supremacists and Islamists working together.

[Eurobabe]

90. Schumer asking RM if he had any contact with Kyle Sampson

Mueller took a long time thinking about and answering this question.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

91. lol! He doesn't recall! eom

[Norquist Nemesis]

92. Mueller is literally squirming in his seat at the moment

over Schumer's questions. He's going to have to "think about" turning over some documents and consult with the DOJ about docs that involve voter fraud!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

94. Don't you just love it!!! eom

[Norquist Nemesis]

97. The lady behind him has changed her demeanor as well n/t

[Eurobabe]

98. Do these dicks just cover for each other or what?

Unbelievable.

What a fucking shell game under Bush 43.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

93. Schumer is asking for information as to that there were was insuffiicient evidence in voter fraud

cases..concerning Englesias and McKay.
Mueller is hem and hawing about making that material available.

[Eurobabe]

95. Schumer: asking if Mueller had any involvement with McKay case

McKay referenced the FBI, McKay's prosecutors worked with FBI. Mueller, let me get back to you on that, Mueller, hemming on that one, I will have to look and see if that is relevent, etc. Mueller, "I would have to think about that, have to consult with DOJ." re: disclosing investigative materials.

Schumer: I don't see why this should be such a big deal. Did FBI back up McKay?

CS: Iglesias, isn't it true that the FBI agreed with David's decision to not proceed with this case?

[Norquist Nemesis]

96. Now asking about voter fraud cases

Has DOJ or WH asked him? "No." definitively. :popcorn:

[Eurobabe]

99. Protestor, some Indian woman

evidently she must be on a terrorist watch list. War being waged on American Soil.

[shadowknows69]

100. This war has to stop!

n/t

[shadowknows69]

103. Holy shit!

This is a Patriot.

[Hepburn]

102. Wow....is she ever going off!!!

Usually they silence the feed...but not this time.

[Eurobabe]

109. The war she was referring to was the War on Americans

by the Bush Administration.

[shadowknows69]

111. Yep

"I'm a housewife but I'm as big a terrorist as Osama Bin Laden?" "This war has to stop"

Holy shit.

[Sydnie]

101. wow! What the hell is going on there?

Who is that woman?

[Norquist Nemesis]

105. Now she's talking about them deporting her?

[Eurobabe]

104. Saying Bush ordered her assassination in 2002?

[shadowknows69]

106. WTF

Cut to the tobacco industry.

[Norquist Nemesis]

107. Looks like at least one reporter is getting it on tape--oops! cut the feed

:wow:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

108. Wow! A secret war being waged...assassination? I wonder who she is? eom

[Sydnie]

110. She told the woman her name but I didn't catch it and you KNOW

C-SPAN will not replay that part!

[shadowknows69]

113. Where are our cspn TIVO junkies?

Someone has to have this.

[Sydnie]

115. It was C-SPAN 3 not on my cable lineup

or I would have had it tivo'd for sure!

[Norquist Nemesis]

114. She said her name, said she's "just a housewife", mentioned CIA

and said she and her whole family had been accused of being a terrorists like OBL???

Did you catch the reporter standing next to her getting it all on tape?

[Sydnie]

116. she has political GOLD there if she uses it!

and whoever had the camera she kept working to stand in front of as well!

[Eurobabe]

112. Session is over, but not without fireworks from a Protestor!

Thanks everyone for contributing! :hi:

[librechik]

117. kick

:kick: