Do you have a right to not shower?

[Taverner]

Reason I ask is at my last office job, there was this guy who just NEVER showered. He said showering every day was unnatural, blah blah blah. Anyway, the guy stunk to high heaven ALWAYS.

One day someone filled his entire cube with Right Guard Samples as a *hint*

He was nonplussed

But damn, doesn't his "right" to not shower infringe on my right to work in an a clean smelling office? Or at least one that does not smell like last night's onion stew?

[MrPerson]

1. What does management say about it?

[BlooInBloo]

2. Wow - a real-to-gawd dirty fucking hippie.

:rofl:

[Taverner]

9. Funny thing is he wasn't really a hippie

Had some hippie tendencies, but dressed more like a skater/punk

Big Rollins fan

Don't get me wrong, he was a great guy to talk with (on the phone and via IM) but in person, you just couldn't get over the stink

[GinaMaria]

17. sounds like a candidate for 'work from home'

In public spaces, I don't think we can dictate to others about bathing, grooming. On privately owned property, it is up to the owners to state what is and is not acceptable, in this case who ever owns the business. Has management spoken with him?

[Taverner]

58. Thing is he was good at his job - shockingly good

So he had a little more leeway

[GinaMaria]

65. Do you think there is any mental illness involved? nt

[Taverner]

76. Not sure - he was personable enough

Did not hit high highs and low lows...no signs of Aspbergers...

He was a big Henry Rollins fan (I mean BIG) and although I like Rollins, he's always had an "in your face" way of doing things, as did my ex-coworker

[Kalyke]

81. LMAO!!! I call Henry Rollins "Stinky" because he did when I met him once.

:rofl:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

70. I worked with one of those

When I worked at a museum there was a genuine "dirty old hippie" who claimed that bathing, laundy and toilets were such a waste of water that it threatened civilization. And that men rarely needed to bathe and women only really needed to bathe during their period, nobody really needs to do laundry more than half a dozen times a year and you should shit in a hole in your yard.

This woman was just disgusting and really seemed to see the lifestyles of the slums of Calcutta as the model to be emulated.

[rcrush]

3. OMG

I once had an assistant manager who was hardcore punk/vegan. He said showering everyday wasted water and he smelled like big foots dick. I had to count money with this stank ass every day in a small count room and I couldnt take it anymore afte 3 days. So before I came to work one day I bought a bunch of febreeze and I would spray him with it everytime he'd get near me. After a week I told him if he didnt start showering that I was going to fire him.

[Bolo Boffin]

20. I don't want to know how you know...

...what Bigfoot's dick smells like. jk

[rcrush]

23. It smells like a sweaty vegan!

[Brazenly Liberal]

26. Wow, that was ignorant!

I have a hunch you already know this and are just posting flamebait, but being vegan does NOT mean lacking personal hygiene. My husband and I have been vegan for many years and we shower every day and wear clean clothes and deodorant - just like most Americans, vegan or not.

And please don't give me that bullshit about how you once knew a vegan (or 12 vegans) who didn't bathe. Correlation doesn't equal causation. I've known dozens of people who ate meat every day and were utter assholes. I've also known a guy named Robert who was a pedophile. That doesn't mean I assume every meat eater I encounter will be an asshole or that I accuse you of being a pedophile.

[uppityperson]

29. Try this...

That was a joke if you read the whole subthread. "A" smells like "B". How do you know what "B" smells like? It smells like "A".

One of those "I'm posting poor logic" jokes.

[burythehatchet]

42. How big is Bigfoot's dick?

[rcrush]

48. It'll give you nightmares!

Imagine...no nevermind dont imagine it.

[Bonhomme Richard]

54. If it was big they wouldn't call him bigfoot. n/t

[seemslikeadream]

4. Do you have the right to wear a gas mask at work?

[Cronus Protagonist]

5. Does one have a right to cover yourself in perfume?

Those with allergies would thank someone for not doing that, but should they have to leave the workplace so that person can wear perfume? I think you'll find the answer there, and the answer is no, they have to work together, so they have to respect each others personal needs, which include the need to be free of unnecessary offensive odors while working.

[Taverner]

11. Get this - the place was perfume free

Which is no problem with me

But somehow BO was OK :eyes:

[Cronus Protagonist]

19. lol - that would be OK with me. I suppose

I can't breathe when people wear strong musky perfume, but I can inhale body odors without any trouble... they just smell bad without being debilitating. Still, if someone is REALLY stinky, I've always talked with them and asked them to do something about it nicely, and they always have.

[musette_sf]

6. leave this card in his cube?

[dustbunnie]

7. Yes it does interfere with your right to work in a clean environment -

and management of most companies don't tolerate bad hygiene as it affects the performance of other employees. People have a right to object to other overpowering odors brought in by employees as well. Must be an embarrassing, unpleasant conversation for managers and HR people to broach however.

[lumberjack_jeff]

25. You have a right to a clean work environment?

Really? Safe, sure, but clean?

[dustbunnie]

34. I meant clean in the sense of free from overpowering pheromone-like odors -

and other bodily secretion scents 'n smells. Nothing takes up all the breathable air faster than cheap perfume and BO.

People who hate taking showers should have bidets installed. You can wash all potentially offensive body parts in them, including pits, without wasting water. In a pinch, they're great for washing out hose, soaks and knickers too.

[LanternWaste]

82. As per OSHA, yes-- clean, too. n/t

As per OSHA, yes-- clean (to extents and within limits-- like all things), too.

[JVS]

8. Yes.

[Taverner]

13. Great - I just with my manager would have used his right to move him outside

IN the parking lot

[camera obscura]

10. Maybe he's the real life version of this Onion article --

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33474

[Deja Q]

12. I knew a person like that. I tried not to gag, but my olfactory system is rather feeble...

It's the same reason why excessive amounts of cologne/perfume/cat pee being sprayed onto one's person should also be curtailed.

Sorry to be a party pooper. I have a right to breathe too.

[Taverner]

14. OMG I hate when the women at Macy's spray cat pee on you!

Seriously, I agree 100%

[Stevenmarc]

18. Fragrance Terrorists

[Doctor_Horrible]

15. I would imagine that if companies have the right to impose a dress code, they would have a right to

address this stinker...

[Lost in CT]

16. Um no. You do not have the Right to smell at work. nt

[liberal N proud]

21. Speak with HR

People complain about everything else including pictures you might have on your desk. I would think that workplace air quality is a valid issue with HR.

[babylonsister]

I used to have a boss who thought she had that right.

She stunk to high heaven, often. And she too got anonymous suggestions via bars of soap, deodorant, etc. It didn't do any good.

[Blue_In_AK]

22. I can sympathize.

We used to have another secretary at the law office where I worked who had a bad habit of taking her shoes off under her deak, and her feet or shoes, I don't know which, absolutely reeked. I don't know how she couldn't notice it or if they smelled just fine to her, but it was really, really awful. Fortunately for us (not so much for her) she sucked at her job and got canned. I don't know how you deal with something like this tactfully.

[Holly_Hobby]

24. Most companies have a hygiene policy

Do you have an employee manual? Talk to HR.

[ljm2002]

27. Talk to HR...

...if more than one person has noticed it, then you're not being overly picky, just making management aware of a problem that needs to be dealt with.

It is up to management to enforce policies, however uncomfortable it makes them to do so.

And it will be doing him a favor in the long run, however hard it is for him to hear it.

[Cleita]

28. I've worked with people like that.

Usually, if enough of the proletariat complained to management, the managers would get said offender aside and ask them to improve their hygiene because co-workers were complaining a lot. Usually, that's all it took. However, in one instance, when I worked in a kitchen, the newest hire for dish washer was a guy who turned out to be homeless and sleeping in his car and he didn't have access to showers. He actually had gone hungry until he got this job where he got a free meal once a day. Once this became known, his co-workers offered him their couches and showers until he was able to find an apartment as a roommate.

[readmoreoften]

30. Only if he wants to put himself at risk for contracting MRSA. *Graphic Warning*

Not showering is really no longer an option. I know two people recently diagnosed with MRSA infections. I now hand-wash and bathe pretty obsessively.

[Sultana]

36. Holy eew

:puke:

[cobalt1999]

38. Okay, maybe I'll start taking 2-3 showers per day.

Ewww.

[hlthe2b]

31. I'm curious how often he showers, whether he uses deoderant,

and how "active" he is. I've worked or spent time in many industrialized countries where not everyone did shower every day in cool weather, unless they were very active. I didn't notice a problem, though they did wear deodorant and DID shower whenever they did any kind of exercise (and every day in hot weather)and NEVER rewore clothing before laundering (at least I don't think they did). I take it, this is not the case...

[hfojvt]

49. Not everyone in this country showers every day

The OP proves that, if nothing else. Showering every day is a recent phenomenon, perhaps starting in the 1970s. For example, my parents did not shower every day, and still do not AFAIK, but my sisters always did, starting in about the 6th grade, and they still do as parents. My parents were born in the 1930s and my siblings in the 1960s.

[hlthe2b]

52. True, that.... and I don't think those who do not are "unclean"

[Ilsa]

68. Nurses don't bathe elderly patients every day, either. It's hard on the skin,

which is the first line of defense against infections like MRSA. In winter I don't bathe every day, only in summer.

[Doremus]

86. The pediatrician told a friend of mine to quit showering her kids so much.

She was a clean freak who insisted her kids shower every evening AND anytime throughout the day they got dirty, such as baseball games or from playing outside. I truly think she suffered from undiagnosed OCD.

Those poor kids had such dry skin from it. The daughter kept getting ringworm and all their hair was lifeless and stringy. The kids got to the point where they hated anything dirty, almost a phobia.

The pediatrician finally told her to stop. She didn't, which is why I think it was OCD.

The water is so expensive in this city I can't imagine how high her bills must have been.

[book_worm]

32. Gee, after reading all the responses maybe I better start showering

For ten years all I've done is have my cat lick me clean.

[OnyxCollie]

77. LOL!

I had to quit letting my dog lick me clean when I caught her eating poop.

[rollingrock]

33. Maybe he's homeless or living in his car?

If so, I don't think he would want to admit it.

[BirminghamExaminer]

37. It's a personality disorder

That's what I think. We have a 'friend' who lives with hundreds of cats and he smells like a giant litter box. We saw him at a book sale the other night and he mentioned he was having trouble with an overabundance of cats. I told him I could tell by the way he smelled. I know that sounds mean but we actually like the guy and don't want him to be repugnant to other people. Alas, he just kept right on talking like I hadn't said anything.

You could probably just tell the guy up front that he smells bad and it's causing some talk in the office but I'm not sure it would do any good.

[rollingrock]

39. I knew some people in high school like that

not personally, but everyone in the school would hold their breath when they walked by you in the hall ways.

every high school seems to have at least one or two of these stinkers.

[cobalt1999]

35. Only in France.

Been there too.

[Jazzgirl]

40. I used to work with a woman that swore she was allergic

to water and couldn't bathe. her body odor was awful and she made everybody sick. In fact, if you used a phone behind her you would hold it away from your face because it smelled just like her funky......use your imagination. It was gross. The supervisors talked to her but she insisted she just could not bathe because of the water.

[tigereye]

44. allergic to water? Now that's one I haven't heard...

:wtf:


This must be more of a problem than one would realize since there seems to be at least one person like that in every office. Makes you wonder if some people have simply never been taught to bathe properly, or why is it important.

[Cid_B]

69. "Aquagenic pruritis"

Aquagenic pruritis is a condition that results after exposure to water of any temperature. Symptoms develop within minutes and may include itching, burning or even a prickly sensation. Most times there are no skin changes, although a faint, bumpy, itchy red rash may occur. The symptoms last from 10 minutes to several hours, and usually are experienced on one or more of the following skin surfaces: Chest, back, arms or legs. While the exact cause of this condition is uncertain, some investigators suggest it is a result of extreme skin sensitivity (but not allergy) to an added ingredient (chlorine, fluoride, others) or mineral present in the water.

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/allergies/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100154510

________________________

I heard about this on the news once. Must really really suck.

[tigereye]

79. i've encountered folks that were allergic to sunlight, but not this

interesting. Thanks for the info.

[dustbunnie]

46. For some reason the book "Perfume" comes to mind from that description. Yuck!

[Mollis]

63. I know someone who is allergic to water.

She does shower though. Just not long ones. She gets boils if she is in the water too long.

[Maru Kitteh]

66. Did anyone perhaps remind the woman that she was in fact 55+ % water?

Edit.

She may have been sensitive to ions or substances in the water, but an allergy is a specific thing, and one cannot have an allergenic response to pure water. Someone should have given her a gallon of distilled water and a nice non-allergenic vegetable soap and told her not to return until they were both used well.

[conspirator]

75. My hands are allergic to tap waters due to the chemicals they put in it

my skin dries if I don't clean my hands properly after touching water

[OffWithTheirHeads]

41. You work at Free Republic?

You poor soul.

[Pab Sungenis]

43. Showering or not showering is not the problem.

Actual cleanliness is.

For a number of months after a surgery two years ago, I wasn't able to shower more than a couple of times a week. Instead, I wound up sponge-bathing myself every morning and washing my hair in the kitchen sink with the spray hose. I managed to stay clean and didn't use nearly as much water as I would have normally. Of course, I also supplemented all this with deodorant.

Yeah, showering every day can waste a lot of water, but you don't need to shower every day to stay clean if you make an effort at it.

And if you're wondering, once everything was back to normal, yes I did return to showering every day.

[shanti]

57. and changing undies daily

regardless if one showers daily or not (and imo, bathing at least every other day is mandatory). i've had people who don't shower daily tell me that it's because daily showering "dries their skin out".

[pansypoo53219]

45. i worked with a semi bather-anti anti-deoderant guy.

ripe is not good. thank good it is not the 'good ole' days'. i think we should be able to spritz them with lysol/fereeze. PERFUME. whatever will help.

[roody]

47. One does not have to shower daily to not smell.

This guy was just plain dirty.

[pipi_k]

50. another odor issue...

Sometimes it's not a matter of bad hygiene at all.

Sometimes it's due to a genetic disorder called 'primary trimethylaminuria' ...or, "Fish odor disease".

I know about this because I have a mild case myself. As far as I know, it doesn't come out in my sweat, but it does appear in my urine. I'm talking BAD. Exactly, as the name implies, like rotting fish. If I pee a few hours after eating seafood I can stink up an entire bathroom. I also have minor bladder leakage problems, so I can literally smell like rotting shark bait.

Some people have it more severely, and even though they've limited their diets, often that doesn't even work.

So please, unless you're absolutely positively 100% sure that someone's odor problem is caused by bad hygiene, it would be nice not to say anything rude and make it even worse for people who can't help it.

Also, before menopause, I had big time problems with underarm odor. I could shower and soap up three times, and five minutes after getting out of the shower, my armpits would reek, no matter what kind of deodorant/antiperspirant I used. Again, probably a genetic thing...

Anyway, here's a link to an article explaining Fish Odor Syndrome

http://www.personalmd.com/news/a1997120305.shtml

[bridgit]

51. Ah yes, the Al Bundy approach to personal hygiene, humorous on TV...

but in close-quarter, office cubicles and such x(

[Swede]

53. I work right now with a guy that stinks.

He's usually out of the office all day. Winter it's not so bad,wait til the dog days of summer come. Peeeuuu.

[joeybee12]

55. Your manager needs to talk to this guy...of course, most managers avoid hard situations...

...maybe talk to HR. No, as long as he works with other people, he has no God-given right to stink.

[Hekate]

56. No. I had a crazy landlady once who refused to wear deodorant... in the tropics. ...

She used to sneak into our rooms to spy around, and would leave her unique odor behind.

My mom once shocked me by saying her dad had been brought up to believe that a once-a-week tub bath was as much as was good for you, and stuck to that belief (he was born in the 1880s); then she explained that even so, he did an all-over washcloth bath every night.

Between access to water and soap and the availability of deodorants, there's no excuse except grave illness for one's body or clothing to reek in this culture.

Hekate

[dysfunctional press]

62. i never wear deodorant either...

the only exception being if i have to wear a suit for more than 5-6 hours.
but- i do shower regularly, and i don't really have much body odor when i DO sweat.

call me crazy, but i just don't like the idea of applying aluminum compounds to my sweat glands.

[Taverner]

64. You don't have to do the aluminum ones - I just use the parafin based ones

Again, in the summer, I do that and shower 2 times a day

[Hekate]

71. Right, or you can use a light cologne under the arms, or dab with a little rubbing alcohol...

... after bathing. And make sure to change your shirt at least daily.

I specified "tropics" because the drenching humidity makes a huge difference in the amount of sweat you produce and how it hangs on to your clothes. The landlady I referenced was batshit crazy and a mean gossip to boot. The odor I mentioned was just the icing on the cake, so to speak.

Hekate

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

59. One Has That Right. One Also Has The Right To Fire Someone Over It.

[Mollis]

60. I had someone like that in gym class once.

They were down the row from me and smelled extremely bad. On top of that...she had absolutely disgusting hygiene. So we threw air fresheners in her locker. She didn't take the hint. She didn't even get it.

[wickerwoman]

83. She got it.

She just didn't show how much it hurt her in front of you. Brave kid. She also obviously has a lot of shit going on at home.

You and your friends need to grow the hell up. If you can't be a friend to a person like this at least have the basic human decency to leave them the fuck alone.

[Mollis]

85. No. She didn't get it.

And by bad hygiene, I mean she would be on her period, and do nothing about it. There were showers she could use if she needed it, and plenty of people who would give her something if she needed it, but she let the stuff get all over her.

[wickerwoman]

87. Symptoms of childhood sexual abuse include:

Depression
Withdrawal from family, friends and peers
Poor hygiene
Anxiety
Low self-esteem
Self-destructive behavior

She was probably too shy and body-conscious to use the showers at school (a lot of girls are- even ones who haven't been abused.) And she was also probably too shy to ask for a tampon or pad. With classmates like you and your friends, I can't imagine why.

You still haven't explained how putting air fresheners in her locker was in any way a kind or helpful approach to the problem.

[Mollis]

89. She wasn't too shy to change everyday in front of everyone.

And, like many other people in this thread, the airfresheners are supposed to be a joke. A subtle hint that she does not have the best odor. It's not like we are the only people that have done this.

[dysfunctional press]

61. what "right" do you have to work in a clean smelling office, unless you own it?

:shrug:

yes- everyone has a right NOT to shower, and a company (at least in our state) has a right to terminate them if they want. and you have a right to quit your job if you don't like the work environment.

[ezgoingrl]

67. Take a damn shower.

I don't care who you are or where you work. From the perspective of a having to work around someone in an office who wasn't clean, it sucks. It sucks big time. AND from the perspective of being a manager who has had to talk to a GROWN person about their personal hygiene, that sucks too. It's not 1239, be clean and while you're at it, brush your nasty teeth too.

[Withywindle]

72. Got one of those at one of my jobs.

An older gentleman, who always wears a suit even though it is definitely NOT a "suit" kind of job. Always the SAME suit, as it happens. We conjecture that huh?what? maybe he's autistic, maybe he's homeless, what what? Our boss has told him about the problem several times, but nothing ever changes. The boss is too soft-hearted to fire him over this, he's been there so long, and I don't really want that to happen either, he obviously has few other options...but WOW.

On the occasions I've had to share a side of the room with him, we have actually, literally, discreetly passed Vicks Vaporub to put under our noses like the cops do in the movies when they have to go into the room with the corpse. It really is that bad.

[geek tragedy]

73. You have a right to not shower.

And your employer has a right to fire you for being a stinky bastard.

[MagickMuffin]

74. I decided to delete my post

[ItNerd4life]

78. Management DOES have the right to make the person not stink

I've had this situation before. The person had to be told by HR that they had to do something.

All the hints never worked, the person wouldn't start showering until he was forced too.

But the key is, they can be forced or lose their job. Every person has to interact with customers
(whether they are internal or external) and a certain level of dress and professionalism are required by any job.

[wickerwoman]

80. Freedom to be trumps freedom to be free of

Sorry... someone's right to be an asshole trumps my right to be free of assholes. Someone's right to bring their noisy child on a bus or into an elevator trumps my right to not have screaming children in my presence.

Sometimes you just have to suck it up and deal with people and situations you find annoying.

Common reasons for poor personal hygiene include depression, poverty, homelessness, drug and alcohol addiction, childhood histories of neglect and sexual abuse and morbid obesity (which can develop from a number of causes outside the control of the individual).

He may have appeared "nonplussed" by having his personal space invaded and filled with deodorant as a "hint" but I guarantee he felt like shit about it and it probably didn't do a lot for his obvious self-esteem issues. Clearly being passive-aggressive and laughing at him behind his back didn't solve the situation. Surprise!

Also, for the poster above who used to put things in people's lockers in high school... you and your friends are bullying assholes. If you have a problem with someone, have the guts to say it to their face and deal with the pain your judgmentalism causes.

[uppityperson]

84. Yes, and No. A personal story...I was one of those stinkers once.

Yes, they have a right to not shower. And no, in that the employer has a right to fire them if they continue to smell.

Now, my personal story. Back in my young adult yrs I did shower, every day. But my pits stank. Seriously. They had some sort of fungus growing in them, which I discovered after doing some research. Turns out that there is a "fun" thing that some med students, biology students, like to do to each other which is get a sample of this fungus and put it in a friend's shirt. It doesn't wash off.

What I did was start using Dial yellow anti-bacterial soap and some sort of anti-perspirant on my pits every day and after a month the stuff went away. My doc told me that it might take a couple types of special soap to get rid of it, but the yellow dial did the trick.

[tanngrisnir3]

88. I don't know. Do we have the right not to wipe?