The Increasingly Visible Pinochet Rationale

[Pamela Troy]

So here I am, up from the depths in my scuba gear. Don't get too close, because when you dive down as deep as I've been...well...It can get pretty rank when you get that close to the bottom. I was down in Freeperland a couple days ago, plucking slimy dainties from that thread in which various patriots look eagerly forward to killing/deporting lots and lots of liberals in the upcoming civil war. To offer a few highlights:

“Where can we join up to shoot liberals?”....Just ask your neighbor who he voted for......

Or, just drive to the nearest Unitarian church like that guy did in Knoxville last summer.

I say let's get it on - sooner rather than later. Let's see the big, bad, scary gay, liberal, afraid of taking a single casualty, lacking discipline, pot smoking army come to Texas and suppress us. And in this civil war, the conservatives will be on the side of Liberty, the liberals on the side Karl Marx.

Yeah, like those gay, liberal, undisciplined pot-spoking UUs in Tennessee.

How did that turn out again?

BTW the ones that need to be dealt with are those in the MSM propaganda machine who are foisting this imposter on us.

Surely there are a few more "Chad Castaganas" out there ready to mail out fake anthrax letters to Jon Stewart and Keith Olbermann.

...cities would have their water cut off, food cut off, power cut off, and city dwellers are not familiar with the country-side and fire arms so they will not fare well when venturing out. The vast majority of the military will not be on their side - I would guess they might have 35% willing. The RATS would be reduced to eating rats in short order, like sieges of old.

And to think we were actually sorry back in 2001 when we saw all those NYC 'Rats falling to their deaths from the flaming WTC towers! Obviously the more patriotic response is to fantasize about them and their children being slowly starved to death.

Foreigners, Libtards, Dems: Round 'em up and ship 'em east on trains.

We could use cattle cars and call it "deportation east!"

Obama could never win a civil war as long as the people are armed. What he forgets is that we don’t have to go to war against the federal paramilitary force. We only have to take out their leaders. Kill a few hundred prominent ‘Rats and his dreams of a Marxist United States folds like a house of cards. Anyone want to borrow my copy of Unintended Consequences?

I'll even throw in my copy of The Turner Diaries!

I believe only a few dozens head Rats AKA traitors. need to be "neutralized" starting with those who disseminate the socialist propaganda ... MSM heads and leftist academics and this will stop .

Hey, "disappearing" uppity academics worked in Chile, Guatemala, El Salvador...

And finally, here's a recently added glimpse into how at least one Freeper has been channeling his or her outrage over the results of the last election:

We photographed all of the houses with Obama signs. We know who they are. Tories didn't fair too well in New England. Ended up in Canada. Houses ended up as huge emitters of carbon...

What we are seeing here is what I call "The Pinochet Rationale," the increasingly popular right-wing rationalization for August Pinochet's brutal policies. As I've observed before, it's best summed up by the following "logic."

1. Socialists and Communists are all incipient mass murderers.

2. Liberals/Democrats are the same thing as Socialists and Communists.

Therefore:

3: Liberals/Democrats are all incipient mass murderers.

And therefore:

4: Death squads, mass executions, and terror are a valid defense tactic to use against Liberals/Democrats.

As is a military coup against a legally elected leader.

You know. Like they did in Chile.

This bears watching. Yes, yes, I've heard it all before. "Shut up, we don't want to hear about it!" "They're crazy." "They're a bunch of nobodies." "Ignore them and they'll go away."

No. Sorry. They won't.

The people posting these sincerely terrified screeds aren't aware enough of the rest of us to notice or care whether they're being "ignored" or not. They are aware of liberals almost entirely through what they read about us on right wing blogs or watch on Fox News. Get enough of these "crazy nobodies" egging each other on in such an echo chamber and the result can spill over into action. It endangers not just public figures, but perceived proxies like those people Jim David Adkisson killed "symbolically" last summer because he couldn't actually get to Michael Moore or Ted Kennedy.

Violent rhetoric is becoming normalized among the right. Combine that a severe economic crisis, add the kind of irresponsible talk about "secession" and "revolution" that's being casually invoked on some cable shows, and we could end up very soon with what amounts to a ticking time bomb.

[madrchsod]

1. the dumb asses do`t realize their words

are being filtered out by the government computers. only the brain stem freeper would commit this shit to the world wide web.

just a hint to rimjob at freerepublic--expect a call from the government someday for not pulling this shit. maybe you should ask the guys at stormfront about their visitation

[Idealism]

2. They get the reinforcement for this shit on hate radio

Without that, this wouldn't be so prevalent in their community I don't believe.

PS: Its Augusto, not August :)

[Rick Myers]

3. They'll be suprised...

Many of us liberals own, and know how to use, firearms. Like Mike Malloy says, "I'm a liberal with a gun."

[MUAD_DIB]

8. It's funny. Do they really think that we sit around sipping

chardonnay is limos?

:rofl:


If these fools try to draw blood then they'll get the pasting of a lifetime. America will not tolerate that crap and will shut it down hard.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

18. and city dwellers are not familiar with the country-side and fire arms so they will not fare well wh

Boy, howdy, are they gonna be surprised when they get to my Brie eating, Chardonnay sipping, pinko house.

To paraphrase from some dumb movie "Say hello to my little friends."

[leftstreet]

4. I can't help but believe that most of those people are Trolls n/t

[Pamela Troy]

5. Why?

[leftstreet]

7. It's just so over the top

I admit I'm not that familiar with FR - just stuff people drag over here for the lol factor.

But most everyday 'republican' or 'conservative' people don't talk like that. Hell, they don't even think like that.

:shrug:

[MUAD_DIB]

9. I would disagree with you on that. I can think of at least

4 instances (anecdotal they may be) where I have witnessed RWers saying some pretty stupid shit like that. Now you could say that it is just RW bluster and bravado, and you may be right. At some point, though, they may start believing their own BS and act on it.

[Pamela Troy]

14. They do on talk radio and on Fox.

Maybe it was growing up in the deep south, but I have no trouble whatsoever believing that, yes, there really are people like that.

[ngGale]

22. From one who lives in the south...

You are exactly right ... the hate is being spewed from Fox, etc. It started during the campaign and has become more and more volatile. Only last night, Beck scared the hell out of me. Don't watch all of Fox, just keep my eye on it. Everyone here has bought all the guns and ammo they can get their hands on. As a liberal, I'm afraid. More afraid than the 60's actually. Too many people here have been dumbed down for the past 20 years. Adding in fundies who abound, it's a toxic and dangerous mix.

People need to take this seriously ... it's reality. My hope is with the youth here who do not have old values, only new ones. The end of one generation and the beginning of a new one, a better one.

[leftstreet]

29. Point

Talk radio and Fox are teh weird.

It's sad though. Sounds as if genuine 'conservatives' and/or 'republicans' don't really have a place online to discuss anything.

[WhiteTara]

20. "The Right, Feeling Wronged"

is an excellent doc on HBO. Produced by Alexandra Pelosi, this is an eye opening program.

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. While most of it does look over-the-top

there's a worrying lack of people telling them to stop being so stupid. Any time anyone here on DU has proposed ridiculous stuff, there's a ton of us who'll tell them so. In that thread, they all seem to be egging each other on.

[snake in the grass]

27. You just said it yourself.

Most don't talk like that, but many do and it is not just talk. You can see evidence of it on the news occasionally, as pointed out in the OP with the example of Jim David Adkisson. Some of the generals are also openly objecting to, criticizing, or defying Obama's policies. This is not good.

[MUAD_DIB]

6. I do believe that if things become more desperate

in the *USA that you will see this kind of verbal RW hatred transformed into actual deeds.

You may believe that they are nitwits, and you would be right, but if anybody tried to organize them into a paramilitary/insurgent force then it would be very very bad for this country: in the short term. But then again from what I have (personally) seen and witnessed of some Right Wingers is that they are as cowardly as those who they would call a coward: RW projection.

So if they want to try and organize and cause havoc then I would kind of welcome it but not from the point of view of seeing any blood shed. Unfortunately, some times, a nation has to go through periods of upheaval in order to right itself. We will have to do this financially since we now have no choice; thank you Wall Street, Corporate outsourcing, greed and whomever voted for deregulation (D or R). In this instance the RW can either decide to remain part of the civilized nation or go out in a blaze of misguided insanity. I would hope for the former, but would rather be prepared for the latter.

It's too bad that these guys ignore what has brought the USA to this financial mess. It is too bad that they don't understand what deregulation has caused. They would rather bring up their old racial hatreds from the days of the glorious white sheet instead of trying to add 2+2.

*President Obama has said "Things will get worse before then get better", and as we know so well the RW love to assign blame everywhere except for their own party. I'm sure these clowns have only just begun with their rhetoric and hate speech against anybody that doesn't fit into their brownshirt mentality.

[Karenina]

38. Dimitri Orlov

gave a talk about social collapse and what to do when the U.S. goes the way of the U.S.S.R. I'm certain you will enjoy his observations on "security." :rofl: Ah, that Russian sense of humor!

http://www.energybulletin.net/print/48082

[santamargarita]

10. These cowards are all talk. If you want to stop a bully,

just smack the shit out of him - works every time! And when he's down, keep him there!

[Pamela Troy]

15. That's a dangerous assumption to make.

[santamargarita]

17. After I posted this, I agree. My point is don't be afraid to go after...

...this bunch and crush them! There are more of us than them!

[tavalon]

33. Pamela, have you reported this to the authorities yet, specifically

the Secret Service? I believe threatening the President of the United States is investigatable if not an outright crime. These people are egging each other on and while most won't even venture out of their parent's basements, there could be a Timothy McVeigh in the crowd, willing to be egged on.

There's a damn good reason the moderators at our site won't let us go there (not that we would, for the most part) and Jim Robb needs to be aware that this is not okay, not by a longshot.

[Peace Patriot]

11. The best thing we can do to protect our democracy from murderous fascists is to

THROW DIEBOLD & ALL 'TRADE SECRET' ELECTION THEFT MACHINES INTO 'BOSTON HARBOR' NOW!

Currently, a handful of rightwing Bushwhack corporations own and control the 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code by which all of our votes are now tabulated, with virtually no audit/recount controls. This means that--after a period of corpo/fascist 'news' monopoly blaming the Bushwhacks' horrors on Obama, and possibly planned civil unrest--they can easily--EASILY!--Diebold Obama out of office, and Diebold Hitler II in. That is fact, not scary fantasy. They HAVE that capability. And this is one possible--and not all that unlikely--scenario for the use of such power.

There are always going to be crazies among us. I remember rightwing asshole traitors like these in the late 1950s/early 1960s. John Birch Society. The kind of people who circulated filthy pamphlets about JFK and the Pope. They were on the fringe. The Bushwhacks and our war profiteers and corpo/fascist 'news' monopolies have stirred these kind of people up, and fed their fantasies of nazi power, because--guess what?--the Bushwhacks are no different from nazi brownshirts, just a lot richer. And IF they play out this sort of scenario (as outlined above), these Freepers are Hitler's nazi brownshirt equivalents, here--the thugs and enforcers anxious for a Great Leader to give them orders.

The best way to counter it is to strengthen our crippled democracy--especially our most fundamental power, our right to vote and to have the votes counted in public view.

[bvar22]

23. Why hasn't the Democratic Party made this a platform issue?

92% of ALL Americans (Democrats & Republicans) support TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE elections!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x446445


and yet, not a peep from our Party on this issue.

Why?

I can think of only one answer....and it ain't good.

[Fire1]

48. Uh......while others are counting paper ballots, I think I'll stock

up on ammo, just to be on the safe side. But, I wonder what makes them think that 'city dwellers' would go the countryside?? I don't get that part.

[davidinalameda]

12. I think that most of the posts in that thread are honest opinions

and not trolls

the right wingers are so crazed right now over Obama it's hard to tell what some of them would do

I wouldn't be surprised to see an uptick in domestic terrorism

I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet

[bertman]

13. Off to the Greatest Page with thee! Thank you Pamela. "Know your enemy" is the most

important precept of survival in a life-and-death struggle--which this could become.

By posting this information you have shown "the dark side" of our adversaries to those of us who prefer not to go to places you have been.

These people think they are patriots. Very sad.

[mikehiggins]

16. I have no doubt whatsoever that there are militant groups out

there and that, just like pedophiles, having contact with each other's bile reinforces their own sense of legitimacy AND their need to "do something" about what they consider the oppression of the intellectual (i.e. Marxist) elite.

And I also beleive that several factions among our military could be persuaded to go along with them. Take the Air Force, for example. How many grads of their academy beleive it is God's Will that the right wing carry the day in America? A lot more than it would take to mount an aerial attack on important US targets.

Nah. Never mind. It can't happen here...

[malaise]

19. Remember they are a two-bit minority n/t

[LongTomH]

24. Remember Rwanda?

Hutu Power Radio played a part in whipping up violent hatred against the Tutsi faction that exploded into genocidal violence. For more background, rent a copy of Hotel Rwanda.

Also, check out these YouTube excerpts from Bill Moyers Journal: Rage on the Radio: Part 1 and Part 2. Please take note of the Unitarian Universalist pastor's reference to the Rwanda genocide.

Let extremists dehumanize people and you end up with Rwanda or Nazi Germany!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

25. The ones mad enough to shoot aren't sane enough to plan.

There is no risk of any kind of organised armed uprising as suggested here.

There will very probably be other isolated right-wing shooting sprees like Jim David Adkisson's in the next few years, though.

I'm not sure how much, if anything, sites like Free Republic constribute to that, though - in the absence of solid evidence, I certainly wouldn't assume that they do.

[Odin2005]

26. Methinks these people need a "visit" from Homeland Security and the G-Men.

OMG, these people are fucking loony-tunes.

[snake in the grass]

28. Excellent post.

I only disagree with one point. We won't end up with a ticking time bomb, the time bomb is already ticking.

[L. Coyote]

30. Will Obama restore Justice and STOP this stuff? Let's have a TRUTH commission looking at

George Bush Sr. May Face Charges: Conspiring to Kidnap and Murder Political Activists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2459135

[L. Coyote]

31. Correction. That was the Nixon-Kissinger regime installed in Chile, doing this stuff

as proxies for US corporate interests.

[tom_paine]

32. Unquestionably. 30,000,000 Knoxville Shooter Clones : 10M stormtroopers, 20M Good Germans

to cheer them on.

270M going along to get along. Someone has to be in charge, right?

The age-old formula.

The Bushies are nearly completed. All the laws are in place. Nazi/Bushie Rule is the law of the land. Obama has no taste for any of the substantial acts needed to turn this around, hell, he hasn't even DeBushified the most criminal DOJ probably in American History. 51 Bushie Criminals are still masquerading as US Attorneys.

After Obama's 4 or 8 years - with Bushiganda in total control it seems like 4 is more likely, plus the Bushies can steal elections electronically whenever they wish - the next bunch of Bushies, led by Emperor Jeb...Sarah, will be almost fully fascist. The attitude of the 30,000,000, now taking over law enforcement and Obama has no taste to do anything more than slightly slow it down, will make it impossible for him to do so, anyway.

A de facto Bush Cabal line will have been drawn that he cannot cross. Dick Cheney already made his Mafiosi-style threat to hit America with his al-Qaeda pals again if Obama dares to rescind unPATRIOT ACt or MCA.

It's ugly, Pamela, and Obama's election is making it get very much uglier.

[Edweird]

34. Oh good grief. There isn't going to be a civil war. They are angry and bitter, but

they have to survive day-to-day just like normal people. If they were really going to do something THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT ALREADY. Like most bullies, I have every confidence that the vast majority of them like to talk trash, but have little stomach for true confrontation.
There will be a few nutjobs that come unglued and do something horrific. That, however, is something that has happened in EVERY presidency. As another poster noted, most of them will be bona-fide head cases, not 'revolutionaries'.
Lastly, using third world countries as some kind of 'evidence' or 'citation' concerning events in the US is absurd.

[Pamela Troy]

40. It's not a civil war I'm worried about.

e:There will be a few nutjobs that come unglued and do something horrific.

Yes. That's what I'm worried about.

e: That, however, is something that has happened in EVERY presidency.

No it hasn't. I know that's a comforting mantra that many people cling to, but it's simply not true. I did not see the an epidemic of the same kind of rhetoric here or at Daily Kos during the Bush administration.

e: As another poster noted, most of them will be bona-fide head cases, not 'revolutionaries'.

"Bona-fide head cases" can do a lot of damage?

Where does this notion come from that violent crackpots are harmless?

[Edweird]

42. ok, so you believe that there haven't been unbalanced nutjobs acting out prior to Nov 14 2008?

e:There will be a few nutjobs that come unglued and do something horrific.

Yes. That's what I'm worried about.

Well, it's inevitable. It's part of the price we pay for living in a relatively free society.

e: That, however, is something that has happened in EVERY presidency.

No it hasn't. I know that's a comforting mantra that many people cling to, but it's simply not true. I did not see the an epidemic of the same kind of rhetoric here or at Daily Kos during the Bush administration.

Seriously? You honestly think that there haven't been whackjobs doing violent ass-holish things for non political reasons? Have you been in a coma or something?
Ever heard of John Hinckley? Charles Whitman? John Allen Muhammad?

e: As another poster noted, most of them will be bona-fide head cases, not 'revolutionaries'.

"Bona-fide head cases" can do a lot of damage?

Where does this notion come from that violent crackpots are harmless?

I'm not saying they are harmless. Only that some dumbass acting out is more than likely a lone crazy person and not the start of some kind of revolution.
Ie: John Hinckley, Charles Whitman, John Allen Muhammad... and so many others....

[Pamela Troy]

44. No. I believe that the likely rhetoric like that Freeper thread increases the likelihood

of "unbalanced nut jobs" acting out.

Do you understand the difference?

E:No it hasn't. I know that's a comforting mantra that many people cling to, but it's simply not true. I did not see the an epidemic of the same kind of rhetoric here or at Daily Kos during the Bush administration.
PFT: Seriously?

Yes. Seriously.

E: You honestly think that there haven't been whackjobs doing violent ass-holish things for non political reasons? Have you been in a coma or something? r heard of John Hinckley? Charles Whitman? John Allen Muhammad?

Edweird, do you understand the meaning of the word "epidemic" and its use in this context?

What you're doing here is a typical tactic used by people conscious that their own premise isn't especially convincing -- you're hyperbolizing what I've said out of all recognition so it will be easier for you to argue against it. You're deliberately misinterpreting my saying, "violent rhetoric has increased on the right" as "no violent political rhetoric or actions have ever taken place before."

That's not what I said. Anyone reading this knows that's not what I said.

Why, then are you acting as though it was?

[Edweird]

46. Well, whatever you do, don't listen to Marilyn Manson, 'cos then you'll shoot up schools....

:eyes:

The histrionic fear mongering that goes on here is pathetic.


Hey, maybe you can get the freepers to listen to 'suicide solution' and then they'll all kill themselves, right? Isn't that how it works in your weird little world?

[lurky]

35. I bet Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols sounded like that.

If 99% of these guys are blowhards, meth-freaks, and basement-dwelling mama's boys, that still leaves a sizable 1% to be concerned about. The fact that members of the conservative establishment like Glen Beck and Sarah Palin are flirting with this kind of language can only serve to embolden these guys.

[Usrename]

36. Yep, this is what the precursor to a coup looks like. Exactly.

And if and when it all starts, this is just the kind of lunacy that will be pointed to as a scapegoat. These morans will be blamed for being the rationale behind it all, for being the cause of all the violence and malcontent, deflecting blame from the real neo-con/neo-liberal corporatist fascists that are always behind each and every use of the Shock Doctrine.

As if these idiots could organize a game of marbles.

[Truth2Tell]

37. What's a few death squads among friends?

[krispos42]

39. All talk, no action

Of course, holding the cities doesn't mean what it used to.



It used to mean holding the means of production, the factories and machinery that made the sinews of war. Now most of that's in China. So I guess that means we (gay Volvo-driving latte-chugging pacifist commies) own the sinews of... marketing? High finance? Fashion?


Fucking Reaganomics... the "national security" president of the "national security" party ripping out our industrial guts like that. Fuck you, Reagan!


And of course the dumbfucks over there at FR can't, won't realize that thanks to Reaganomics and globalization that have weakend and hollowed out us and empowered China, as soon as we dissolve into a civil war the Chinese will be MORE than happy to come over here and "help" one side or the other... or just invade outright.

With the Navy and Air Force crippled by lack of money and parts to stay combat-effective, nothing will be in the way of those hundreds of container ships that used to haul cheap plastic shit from China to Los Angeles but are now hauling armored and mechanized divisions across America. And of course the Chinese will be imposing order with the "tough love" mentality that Freepers love so much that pretty soon the Freepers will be becoming quislings in huge numbers.

Besides, the Chinese are fascists, not communists... the government of the Freepers' wet dreams.



These people are so fucking clueless it's scary. They apparantly think they can keep gians transnational businesses from dominating the federal government by... dreaming? Rubbing a lamp? Or they think that business can never be as repressive, ever, as a government can be. Or that they're somehow freer when giant corporations run government for themselves as opposed to elected leaders that are responsive to the voters.

And then they repress the voters and wonder why government isn't responsive.



These people are off their rockers. Exactly the reason Democrats need to get off the anti-gun soapbox... it's fueling the right-wing paranoia, it's costing us votes and political support, and it's disarming US in case something happens.

[infidel dog]

43. Hmmm... I wonder how fast the "super patriots" at FR and the like would fall in love with China

if the Chinese government dropped its sham communist label and openly declared itself fascist or authoritarian capitalist?

[krispos42]

49. They'd still love them

Well, since they'd vote for Republicans that will gladly send every job possible to China to make maximum use of what is essentially slave labor, then they must by extension love the New Fascist China.

After all, authoritarianism is okay as long as you're defending against terrorists, so once the Chinese whip up some imaginary and well-marketed evil organization, the Freepers will be able to rationalize it all away.

[alfredo]

41. Pinochet did what he did to make way for free market capitalism.

[ColbertWatcher]

45. "Violent rhetoric is becoming normalized among the right." QFT. n/t

[librechik]

47. while they're driving around, why don't they look for an Army Recruiting office?

Or volunteer for the peace corps?

Become a missionary so they can convert the hated woggies to Jesus?

They never do anything useful except keep their houses from floating into the sky by sitting in the basement all day.