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Honestly, Judge, I Did It But Let's Look Forward

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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 02:59 PM
Original message
Honestly, Judge, I Did It But Let's Look Forward
Now here's a horrendously bad piece of thinking from a usually terrific website that occasionally lets loyalty to a political party trump common sense. Cynthia Boaz, who has written much better stuff, writes:

"In the wake of Sen. Patrick Leahy's (somewhat) surprising and determined call for a Truth Commission to investigate the abuses of the Bush-Cheney administration, the Obama administration has been - to many progressives and those on the left of center - disturbingly silent. It's safe to say that the president's less-than-forceful position on the issue has been a source of intense criticism and skepticism from the left about the president's sincerity regarding his claims to promote a new era of transparency and accountability in American politics."


True enough. This is not the horrendous part yet. But let's be a little wary of characterizing something as leftist when there has only been one poll published, which found that: 38% of Americans want criminal investigations, 24% want an independent panel, and 34% want nothing. Those 34% who want nothing done are not the mainstream, the silent majority, or the sane middle ground. Many of them, politically speaking, are certifiable lunatics. The 62% who want something done are a majority, but more of them want criminal prosecution than want what Leahy wants.

"These concerns reflect a fundamental misunderstanding of the president's perspective as well as his role. A Truth Commission is a serious matter. In societies overcoming severe oppression or wrongdoing, Truth (or Truth and Reconciliation) Commissions can serve a critical role in healing the wounds wrought by the injustices and can promote much-needed trust, goodwill and reconciliation between the various parties. Peru, South Africa, Morocco and East Timor are just a few of the places where TRCs have helped their societies heal and have facilitated reform by acknowledging past wrongs and ensuring that the horrors of history will not be repeated."


The successes listed above are debatable, to say the least, but what in the world do they have to do with the United States? I don't want to put that 34% of the country on trial. I just want to see a half-dozen to a dozen top officials, including Bush and Cheney, prosecuted for their crimes. Six to twelve people, not a population, not something of such magnitude and uncommon nature that our justice system can't handle it. Our laws require the prosecution of torture and of violating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Bush has confessed to both. Prosecute him. That is not a large or complicated task, just one that apparently some people find so difficult to grasp that it never even occurs to them.

Investigations substituted for impeachment for two full years. A "truth and reconciliation" commission as a substitute for prosecution would be counterproductive, as argued by Jonathan Turley, Peter Dyer, David Swanson, and Bob Fertik. The Justice Department itself has argued for "state secrets" blocks on prosecutions on the grounds that commissions can substitute for enforcing laws.

"Night after night, on radio talk shows, disgruntled, self-identified progressives call in to inform the host and her audience that we (the American people) can - in fact - 'walk and chew gum at the same time' (a response to the argument on the part of some Obama defenders that now - in the midst of the worst economic crisis in decades - is simply not the right time to focus our energies on a task of this magnitude - that such an effort would be an irresponsible distraction). Those folks, many of whom, frankly, invoke images of villagers wielding torches and pitchforks, are sadly missing the point."


The point? I think their point may be that if you allow one president to get away with crimes and abuses of powers, the following presidents will all assume they can do the same, and no matter how much you equate immunity for criminals with a bright future your future is going to be a living hell. The point, I would dare to suggest, involves ignoring and failing to respond to threats of terrorism, misspending funds, misleading Congress, creating false propaganda, invading Iraq in violation of Constitution, UN Charter, and HJRes 114, establishing bases and seeking to control resources in Iraq, allowing energy companies to secretly make public policy, providing immunity to mercenaries, wasting funds on war profiteers, detention without charge, rendition, torture, murder, imprisoning children, creating secret laws, using military domestically, spying without warrant, rewriting laws with signing statements, undermining preparedness for natural disasters and destroying economy through military waste, politicizing the Justice Department, ordering obstruction of justice, blocking prosecutions with bogus claims of "state secrets," and so on and so forth until somebody gets the point. That's why people call talk shows; they don't want this -- and worse -- in the future.

While every president belongs to some political party, that is no excuse. He or she is still required to obey laws. And every attorney general is required to enforce laws, regardless of what the current president may say to the contrary. Attorneys general used to resign when such a conflict arose. Now we simply assume that a president should dictate and attorney general's behavior, and defend a president's choice not to prosecute crimes.

"For starters, the Obama administration has taken as its primary goal the mission of reconciliation, not retribution. Although his efforts have been thus far frustrated by a small but dogmatic segment of the Republican Party, Obama is, in the truest sense, a unifier. It is simply not the style - politically or personally - of this president to seek the same sort of 'justice' desired by the pitchfork-wielding villagers. In the mind of this president (I imagine, anyway) emphasis on punishing wrongdoers runs the risk - especially in this very politically contentious climate - of only promoting divisions and inflaming precisely the wrong emotions necessary for a culture of healing - namely, anger, hostility and the desire for vengeance. To wit: one caller to a progressive radio show stated (apparently oblivious to the irony) that 'Bush should be publicly shamed.' Surely this person - and others like him - do not seriously believe that the appropriate response to the culture of impunity we've been subject to for the past eight years is the subsequent creation of a culture of retribution."


Yes, indeed, this is the horrendous part. Imagine what would happen if across the board we dismissed "justice" as a quaint notion from old Europe and ceased the prosecution of any crimes on the grounds that prosecution of crimes is a "culture of retribution." Of course we have always had a culture of retribution and it drives much of our criminal justice system, but to throw out the deterrent value of enforcing laws because some people want retribution would mean dictatorship or anarchy. John Adams hoped for a nation of laws, not of men. As we cavalierly toss out the notion of laws as something that might actually be enforced, at least for the gravest of crimes if not for the petty ones, we evolve into a nation of men, the rule of thugs. You may have to squint very hard to start to see that, if you like the current top thug a lot and think he means well and doesn't want to be a thug. But, even there, the signs are not all positive.

Congress will still not enforce its own subpoenas, and the new Justice Department will still not enforce them. And the new White House is encouraging Congress to compromise with a witness like Karl Rove, supporting at least partially his insane claim to "executive privilege", explicitly admitting to be doing so in order to avoid weakening "the institution of the presidency." To sees this all, as many do, as progress because it brings closer the day on which Rove shows his fat face on Capitol Hill and contemptuously refuses to answer pre-arranged questions on pre-screened topics is to have gone badly adrift.

"This is not to say that the president does not hold a high regard for the rule of law, or that Bush and the others should not be held accountable for their misdeeds - which in some cases, appear to rise to the level of crimes against humanity. To the contrary - and this brings me to my second point - the rule of law can only truly be applied in an environment that is as independent from political motive as possible. If Obama were to come out openly advocating the seeking of legal retribution for the crimes of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the others, it could not but be regarded (accurately, in my view) as a political maneuver. Such an event would degrade the president's legitimacy by rendering his tactics no better than those of the people he would seek to prosecute. While the president certainly can (and should) not hinder the prosecution of his predecessor and his administration should another state (who can use the ICC) or entity (such as an organized group wishing to file a class-action suit against the previous administration for harm to the group as a whole - e.g. taxpayers organization, veterans groups, etc.), it is not the job of the president himself to seek such "justice." Directly punishing their predecessors is something done by tyrants in authoritarian regimes, not by legitimate, democratic leaders in an open society. This is why it was the widely revered cleric Desmond Tutu, rather than the newly elected President Nelson Mandela, who led South Africa's own Truth and Reconciliation Commission at the conclusion of Apartheid in that country."


This is why an attorney general is not, despite the past 8.1 years experience, supposed to be a president's servant. This is why an attorney general can appoint a truly independent prosecutor. Of course foreign countries and international bodies should enforce our laws for us if we refuse, but why in the world should that be our official policy. This sort of thinking illustrates the dangerous repercussions of burying so far into our skulls the notion that the president is an emperor that we can't see it or question it, that we can't contemplate the independent existence of an attorney general or any cabinet secretary, that we can't envision Congress as the source of legislation and refer to its bills as "Obama's stimulus" for example. When you've reached the point of declaring it wrong to enforce the nation's laws but right for an outside body to do so, it's time to start questioning what hidden assumptions have twisted your thinking out of all rationality.

"As Americans and democratic citizens, we have an obligation to acknowledge the truth about our recent shared past and its present consequences. But this can only legitimately be done by those whose job it is to hold leaders accountable in a democratic society - the people. And it can only justly be motivated by a genuine desire to adhere to the rule of law, not by a desire to seek political retaliation. Otherwise, our collective hope for evolution beyond the stains of our recent past is nothing more than a facade for our complicity in politics as usual."


Now that's exactly right and exactly what a lot of us are working on night and day over here: http://prosecutebushcheney.org


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YDogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. I thought this was about A-Rod
:shrug:

I enjoyed the post, BTW. :)
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think all criminal defendants should use this line
might wake some people up
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. Exactly what I was thinking Dave.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Retribution" ?
What the fuck?
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Yeah. I had a "WTF?" moment too
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Fireweed247 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. "if you allow one president to get away with crimes and abuses of powers....
...the following presidents will all assume they can do the same" and all of their cronies will keep on the same way which is why we are still dealing with all of Nixon's people.


Sometimes I think the best way to approach these abuses of power is to get the freepers on our side "Obama is wiretapping you" etc. They are generally the loudest people and as they demand that Obama not be allowed such powers, it will become clear that Bush himself is a criminal.
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. I honestly don't think it will happen unfortuneatly...
There were not criminal penalties for Reagan or Bush 1, no criminal penalties for Clinton lying to Congress (irrespective of the triviality of what he was testifying about), why would they start with Bu*sh 2?
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. "why would they start with Bu*sh 2?"...
Well, why didn't we start with LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, or any others? Just because one thing has never occurred doesn't mean it will stay that way or it can't be changed. New precedents are created over periods of time.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. I swear that will be my defense (if such a need were to ever arise)
Edited on Wed Feb-18-09 03:47 PM by Solly Mack
K&R

Justice only divides the nation, your honor. Unlike the healing benefits of moving on, prosecuting me for my actions doesn't aid the healing process at all. To heal, truly heal - we must move on. Prosecuting me for the death of a man that I ordered others to beat would be an act of vengeance. Our country needs to heal - let's start here and now by dismissing the idea of holding me accountable.

I say I'm not guilty of any wrong doing (I gave an order - I didn't do the actual killing) and some might say I am - but let's not criminalize a difference of opinion. Let's not hurt the family of the dead man anymore. Let's not hurt my own family. Let's not drag the country through the painful process of hearing how I gave an order and now a man is dead. Let's move on to a better tomorrow.

I swear it will never happen again - and the act of letting me go will guarantee that it will never happen again because I now have the chance to think about any possible mistakes that I might have made, and others will also see me as an example for their future behavior. Also, let us not forget, your honor - I acted in good faith. With full faith and assurance that everything I did was legal. If there be ignorance of the law, it was not my ignorance - but the ignorance of those who said it was OK. But really, your honor, can we in all good conscience criminalize ignorance?


Let's move forward with a lick and a promise. You've done your duty, your honor, just by bringing these events to light - now let's promise that never happens again. No need for anyone to go to prison - save for those few bad apples, of course. The negative publicity and the tarnished image that comes from criminalizing a policy difference will discourage people like me from entering public service. Think how such a thing would hurt the country. Let's not cheat America out of public servants like myself.


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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. K & R this thread and YOU, Solly. A deserving OP all of its own.
Edited on Wed Feb-18-09 05:28 PM by chill_wind
Well put.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. TY!
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. And the judge will say to you, "Solly Mack, I have heard your argument. And compelling
as it is, it is my duty to inform you that only the powerful and well-connected are allowed to use that defense. Guilty as charged. Off to the dungeon with you, lowly citizen."


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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Too true
I'm a no one - as in, "no one is above the law"

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Right on. Me too.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R.... David an OT question on finding a prior article you
wrote in response to the article below, I've tried using various words but I'm still coming up empty handed. I know that I have even posted your article on DU...thanks.


Obama would ask his AG to "immediately review" potential of crimes in Bush White House

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Barack_on_torture.html

"...I mentioned the report in my question, and said "I know you've talked about reconciliation and moving on, but there's also the issue of justice, and a lot of people -- certainly around the world and certainly within this country -- feel that crimes were possibly committed" regarding torture, rendition, and illegal wiretapping. I wanted to know how whether his Justice Department "would aggressively go after and investigate whether crimes have been committed."

Here's his answer, in its entirety:


What I would want to do is to have my Justice Department and my Attorney General immediately review the information that's already there and to find out are there inquiries that need to be pursued. I can't prejudge that because we don't have access to all the material right now. I think that you are right, if crimes have been committed, they should be investigated. You're also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve.

So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment -- I would want to find out directly from my Attorney General -- having pursued, having looked at what's out there right now -- are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies. And I think it's important-- one of the things we've got to figure out in our political culture generally is distinguishing betyween really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity. You know, I often get questions about impeachment at town hall meetings and I've said that is not something I think would be fruitful to pursue because I think that impeachment is something that should be reserved for exceptional circumstances. Now, if I found out that there were high officials who knowingly, consciously broke existing laws, engaged in coverups of those crimes with knowledge forefront, then I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody above the law -- and I think that's roughly how I would look at it..."






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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Are you askng me to find something I wrote??
Things I've written:
http://davidswanson.org

How to reach me:
david@davidswanson.org
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Yes from 2008 in regards to the article below...
Obama would ask his AG to "immediately review" potential of crimes in Bush White House

Obama...

"...So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment -- I would want to find out directly from my Attorney General -- having pursued, having looked at what's out there right now -- are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies. And I think it's important-- one of the things we've got to figure out in our political culture generally is distinguishing betyween really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity. You know, I often get questions about impeachment at town hall meetings and I've said that is not something I think would be fruitful to pursue because I think that impeachment is something that should be reserved for exceptional circumstances..."

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Barack_on_torture.html

I think I read it on the democrats.com site or afterdowning street site and it was written shortly after, within a few months at most, the April 2008 article linked above.

Ring any bells, I scrolled back and forth through the democrats.com site earlier but no luck.

Thanks.




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Career Prole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. K & R
Well done!
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. One other significant area that could possibly be reformed by a serious
investigation/punishment of the Bush/Cheney crimes is the media. Faux News-style talking heads are on every national news network, continuing to push obvious propaganda, & I believe those liars would not be given high profiles if their worshipped former bosses' crimes were made an issue in a legal setting.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. I investigated myself, your honor.
And I found no wrong-doing. The last Friday before Bush left office, the Pentagon IG, tasked with investigating the Pentagon Pundit Propaganda Ops program on the big cable outlets that was exposed by the NYT way back, released its findings on its agency. That was the conclusion.

You are so right. We need major media reform and much stiffer laws and penalties to enforce that, like yesterday.
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Bunkie0913 Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
19. I read that article on Truthout yesterday
It was early in the morning and at the time there were no comments. I posted a response something along the lines of "What a crock!" but used more words! Just went back and read all the comments and mine didn't appear at all. Oh, well. There are numerous comments expressing my opinions. Looks like quite a few folks have responded to Ms Boaz "What a crock".
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
20. I've always wanted to use that line if I ever get caught for speeding
"Well officer, mistakes may have been made, but I think you'll agree that it's best to move forward."
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thank You David, but be prepared to be called a "KNEE JERKER"
Edited on Thu Feb-19-09 01:14 PM by flyarm
by the Obama profits on this board!

Or a myriad of other names!

Call it any number of things but Obama did say while campaigning that * did not do anything to warrant an investigation< i know i know , it was scrubbed very quickly.

And we see now Obama sent Kissinger to the Middle East representing this administration and we the people..does no one see what is going on here????????

Kissinger..there were screams all over the liberal and progressive world when Kissinger was Set up to run the 9/11 commission , but now that Obama chose this criminal to represent his administration and the USA.crickets.

When we do not hold people responsible and accountable , they continue to re-surface and to destroy us within.
When we relinquish our responsibility as Americans to our Constitution,to any one man or one body of
men/women we are doomed, irregardless of party.

Those who ignore History are doomed to repeat it..Kissinger is example enough, is he not??????????
Obama supporters who continue to make excuses for Obama, and
are too busy covering up Obama's misdeeds..harm all of us,collectively
for generations to come. They harm our constitution and they harm our very existence as a democracy.They seem afraid to demand invoking the criminal laws that have protected all of us and are time tested,
because they fear someone will say that politics are involved.

Or they have nefarious reasons to try to stop prosecution of criminals to our nation.

We the people...
enact certain criminal laws,to make sure the proper functioning of our political system stays intact.

Therefore, WE THE PEOPLE, damn well have the right to see those laws enforced!

Irregardless of who is president!





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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. I expect " Reconciliation" in church..i do not expect it in our criminal system
and not when it concerns criminals in the highest powers of our government for crimes they have committed.

Fuck ......Reconciliation

keep that in the churches please... and out of our judicial system!
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