17 Year Old Tasered to Death by Cops

[Leftest]

(Virgina) State Police are investigating the death of a 17-year-old after Martinsville Police used a stun device on a teenager Thursday night.

It happened at 307 Rives Road. When 10 On Your side came to the apartment on Friday afternoon, the door was already open, but nobody was inside.

~snip~

Gregory says Derick had been drinking, but claims there was no confrontation with police.

“Derick walked around from the kitchen, into the living room, and got half-way into the living room, and the cop tased him. He didn’t run at him or nothing,” said Gregory.

But at a news conference, Police went into detail, saying Derick “moved rapidly toward Officer Wray in an offensive stance.”


http://www.wsls.com/sls/news/local/southside/article/teenager_dies_following_martinsville_police_taser_incident/24494/#fragment-2

Public executions by police seem to be becoming a daily event. It appears that we have as much to fear from the police today as we do from gang bangers.

How sad.

[opihimoimoi]

1. I hope the fucker who invented this shit has fuckin Nightmares for the rest of his life

:puke:

[High Plains]

2. Or tased to death.

[SammyWinstonJack]

3. !

:thumbsup:

[BlooInBloo]

4. And cops who use them.

[opihimoimoi]

24. This has gone far enough...them things should be recalled asap

I gonna call Obama

[BlooInBloo]

5. We have MORE to fear from cops than gangs...

Cops do what they do protected by The State. At least gangs have a counter.

[seabeyond]

6. agree with all the comments above. n/t

[KayLaw]

9. I don't understand.

What does it mean to have a counter, please?

[BlooInBloo]

10. The word is in dictionaries.

[Gwendolyn]

18. So who is their "counter"?

[KayLaw]

22. I must be using the wrong dictionary.

Sorry to bother you. Maybe someone else could explain.

[BlooInBloo]

26. You're not using ANY dictionary...

To verify this claim, I first went to a few dictionary sites to see the word with the usage I employed:

- http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=dictionary&q=counter&num=100
- http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=define%3Acounter&btnG=Google+Search&num=100&aq=f
- http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/counter%5B3%5D

That got to be mind-numbingly slow, so I sped things up by going to a dictionary-clearinghouse:

- http://www.onelook.com/?w=counter&ls=a

I then went thru the top ten sites it returned, to verify my usage was there:

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/counter_2?view=uk
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/counter?view=uk
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861600726
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861670938
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/results.asp?dict=B&searchword=counter
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=17573&dict=CALD
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/counter-?rdfrom=Counter-
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Counter
http://www.yourdictionary.com/counter
http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=counter&matchtype=exact
http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=counter-&matchtype=exact
http://dictionary.infoplease.com/counter
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=counter-&r=66


Moreover, the etymology of my usage was #11:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=counter


Finally, I threw in yahoo, just to close off that avenue:

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/counter;_ylt=Aljp1XWasD9YqGYmgnHd_06sgMMF



Conclusion: Show me the dictionary that does NOT have the usage I employed. English dictionary, natually. I would love to see this dictionary. I don't think one exists. I'm willing to bet a star for a DUer that there is no English dictionary lacking the word.

[uppityperson]

31. Wouldn't it take less time/energy to simply explain?

Unless it is more important to, I don't know, try to prove something?

[BlooInBloo]

33. Probably....

And the next time time/energy is my highest concern, I'll keep that in mind.

I was actually simply curious whether or not there existed an English dictionary lacking the usage I employed. I suspected not, but now I'm quite sure.

[uppityperson]

34. I thought it a good question as my dicts say a counter like in kitchen or counting #s

My dictionaries give several usages and none of them have to do with gangs. But then I use book dictionaries rather than online.

[BlooInBloo]

35. BWAHAHAHAA!!!

Name that dictionary.

EDIT: It'll be funny if you deliberately name one that doesn't exist at all online.

[uppityperson]

38. American Heritage Dictionary, 1971 edition. You did read that I have it in book form, right?

Nope, not in my 1971 American Heritage dictionary.

[BlooInBloo]

39. Thanks for the unverifiable claim....

EDIT: The unverifiable claim involving a 40 year old reference even. And a reference that currently DOES has the usage I employed.

EDITEDIT: I mistakenly assumed that the current reference was among the links I provided. Here it is, as their #1 usage: http://www.bartleby.com/61/42/C0684200.html

I don't for a second belief that your "real" book doesn't have the usage. But it's unverifiable.

[uppityperson]

40. As I said, my paper dict doesn't have it. "gang" gives me a group of hoodlums.

Yes, my old dictionary has faults, is very much not up to date. But it's good for word etiology and for browsing through when the power goes out.

It does talk about boxers and fencers having someone "counter" to them, or opposite them though.

I like my old dictionary. It's good for pressing wet papers under to flatten them also.

[BlooInBloo]

41. What the hell are you talking about "gang" for?

:rofl:

And thanks for proving me right - that your dictionary does in fact have the usage I employed.

[uppityperson]

43. "At least gangs have a counter." Is "opposite" the usage?

Do you mean "at least gangs have a counter" which is the police, while police don't? Then I get it, thought it was some obscure gang reference. Ah well. I was wrong.

Dang those hoodlums.

I can look up other fun words and give you 1971 usage if you'd like. It is fun, so is my 1960's set of encyclopedias. The encyclopedias are fun to look at for political and world stuff, science also.

And they are good for pressing flowers to dry.

[BlooInBloo]

45. (facepalm)

EDIT: And we've learned that it's too bad that dictionaries are good for pressing flowers.

[uppityperson]

47. Indeed we have. Also that bloo doesn't like to answer what bloo considers stupid questions.

ah well

[BlooInBloo]

52. One qualification: when asked by people bloo thinks should know better.

But other than that, yah.


EDIT: And bloo realizes that the problem is as much his expectations as anything else.

[uppityperson]

55. Some days I am just very slow.

Other times I am quick. Today is a day when the brain connections are having issues.

[BlooInBloo]

56. Lord knows I've had plenty of those.

[uppityperson]

57. It can be an issue when normally I am so strikingly brilliant to then

have me go "wtf" and be taken seriously. Esp when sometimes I play dumb on purpose to draw someone out. Not playing dumb here though.

And yes, I am making fun of myself with "strikingly brilliant".

[KayLaw]

58. You're not slow.

I, too, thought it was gang slang. And as far as the way Bloo chose to use the word, perhaps the police officers see the gang members as their counters.

[uppityperson]

61. That was my thought, some sort of gang slang rather than ordinary usage

Ah well, Bloo learned about using big heavy dictionaries and encyclopedias for pressing things.

[awoke_in_2003]

65. I got your count for you:

[Gwendolyn]

28. He seems to mean that at least gangs have someone or something holding them in check.

Doesn't say who or what that counter is though. I'd be interested to know as well.

[Barb in Atl]

29. Deaths related to gang shootings

may have an arrest and usually a conviction. Deaths from police shootings rarely end with a conviction - and a trial is iffy.

[awoke_in_2003]

66. Police shootings...

usually just lead to paid admistrative time off.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

12. Yeah there aren't that many gang related deaths.

[BlooInBloo]

15. Who said that? Who???

Damn illiterates.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. Who said what?

[Barb in Atl]

30. There are many deaths that are called

"gang-related". Not really sure how many of them there are, though.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

32. What percentage are called gang related?

[Barb in Atl]

54. I don't know figures.

I know that here in Clayton County, GA, where jobs have been scarce for a minute, news reports of gang related activity have gone up. And often, shootings are linked to that - regardless of actual cause.

But I'll be up front, I'm highly suspicious of law enforcement and news media, so I'm always assuming somebody is lying.

So, you can say I'm talking out my rear, I just don't believe the hype.

Perhaps (as I make an assumption about your username), you have a different take being in the field with emergency personnel.

I'm a black woman with a son and 6 brothers and a whole basketful of tales of "fun with the police" from them and/or friends.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

62. It's actually kind of surprising.

According to the FBI statistics over the last 5 years there have been on average about 1000 gangland or gang related murders out of the roughly 14,000 on average. So in regards to gang related murders it's well under 10% at least it has been the last 5 years. I didn't know myself that's why I asked for some figures. My experience has been that murders are far more often drug related than gang related but that may be just my experience in my city. I'm glad I looked it up. Take care.

David

[safeinOhio]

13. Hey, just like cops

not all gang members are dangerous.

[BlooInBloo]

16. hahaha!

[uppityperson]

7. Pee in the road, argue with another minor about alcohol, die.

My condolences to all involved, their families and friends.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

8. I have had several students of mine tasered in recent years

One has a suit pending since literally he was passing by and trying to move away from the incident. There is video to back him up. City is fighting it tooth and nail. I hope they end up paying big time.

I understand the need for non-lethal alternatives, but tasers are clearly too dangerous.

[awoke_in_2003]

67. Do I even need to ask...

what their ethnicity is?

[alarimer]

11. Well it saves them having to do paperwork

about the arrest and the cost of the trial, etc. :sarcasm:

[ngGale]

14. Excessive force is not...

uncommon around these parts. Rookie cop, still no excuse. However this has brought out more discussion about tasers, on a local level, as being deadly force. Talk about banning them is rampant.
I'm sure we all can agree on this subject.

[Gwendolyn]

19. Tragic for all involved.

Two 911 calls, the cop found blood on the inside of the door which appeared to be jimmied open. Hard to say what was on his mind when he approached the situation. I remember what it was like being 17 and around guys who were extremely liquored up. Anyone who's ever been in a bar when a drunken brawl breaks out, knows how out of hand people get when really sloshed. It's hard to say how violent the 17-year-old appeared when he allegedly rushed the cop.

[Pavulon]

46. Back to the spiral fracture.

that is what you get when you put your forearm up when police are swinging a billy club at you for doing whatever you were doing.

I would prefer the taser personally.

[ellisonz]

20. This cop is either stupid, lying, and a murderer or all three.

(1) he noticed the front door had been forced open and requested assistance.

How could he possibly tell if it had been forced open or simply left open by the resident?

(2) Wray heard loud banging noises coming from the kitchen,

Cabinets?

(3)“moved rapidly toward Officer Wray in an offensive stance.”

Meaning? Did he give him any verbal warning before tasing him?

[Gwendolyn]

21. You have no imagination.

1. Evidence of damage. Blood inside of door could indicate that someone inside the house had been attacked.

2. Excessively drunk individual banging around, falling all over the place. Could be interpreted as a violent individual having broken in and causing havoc.

3. Likely he did.

[ellisonz]

37. He failed to exercise proper caution.

1. I would bet he did not identify himself verbally before entering the residence. If he stays at the door, and yells "Police! Come to the door" before barging in he creates sufficient space so that he won't feel threatened. The OP story says nothing about blood on the inside of the door.

2. I wonder if the 911 call identifies the disturbers as residents.

3. The article doesn't say whether or not he did. However, there is no cause to presume that he did as such considering that a young man is dead.

Did he have the taser drawn while already in the house or did he have time to draw while this individual approached in an "offensive stance?"

Have you ever witnessed police corruption and brutality? Because I certainly have...

[Gwendolyn]

42. Aren't you the armchair detective!

1. Your "bet" and $3.50 will buy me a latte at Starbucks. This article makes mention of the blood inside the door. It was perfectly reasonable to assume some violence had occurred in the house. The banging apparently sounding like "pounding" to the cop, which have been someone beating on someone else.

http://www.godanriver.com/gdr/news/local/danville_news/article/martinsville_
teenager_dies_after_police_taser_incident/8410/

2. Possibly not. But what difference does it make? Residents are never violent? How many times do you think cops break up bloody domestic violence scenarios, enter homes where women or children are in the midst of getting the crap beaten out of them?

3. There's no reason to presume anything, but you're real good at that.

Have I witnessed police corruption? Yes, I've also seen some exceptional kindness, and have had an opportunity to thank a couple of cops for saving my life. Maybe tasers should be done away with, but there's no reason a cop should be needlessly required to put himself in harm's way 40 times a day. Some do like to go home to their families after the shift is over.

[ellisonz]

49. So you don't think there should be an investigation?

Obviously these questions need to be asked. Again, he should not have entered the apartment when where he couldn't control the situation. If he remains at the entryway we likely have a very different ending. There was no reason to believe the violence was ongoing since they were in different parts of the apartment.

The officer failed to control the situation endangering his life and costing the life of this young man.

[Gwendolyn]

53. Of course there should be an invesstigation.

And I think you're way off base to say he shouldn't have entered the apartment. Especially with evidence of blood and violence right at the doorway. There was no way for the cop to ascertain exactly how many people were in the house, and couldn't know what was going on in the kitchen.

Today it's two drunken teenagers, tomorrow it's a woman being raped and beaten. Today you say the cop is a murderer for entering. Tomorrow when the cop doesn't enter and a woman dies of her beating, the cop is still an asshole and a murderer.

The officer did control the situation. That he was given a taser and told to use it by his department isn't his fault. That's the tool he's given. If anything the anger should be directed at those much higher up. And as someone else mentioned, the weapons of choice didn't used to be much better.

I'm sure you must know that if a drunk comes flying at you, the only thing you can do is fight him. It isn't up to cops to get into fist fights with every drugged up freak or drunk they encounter 20 times a day. Many wouldn't get to go home at night.

[bertman]

23. ellisonz, I am going to resist the temptation to say something bad about your comments.

What if he's not stupid, lying, or a murderer?

1) it's often very easy to tell when a door has been forced open because there is splintered wood, a mutilated lock or jamb, and in some cases even a busted door. I have seen scores of doors that were broken into and had no problem whatsoever seeing the condition of the door from twenty or more feet away.

2) Cabinets?? Are you really saying the cabinets were banging?

3) If you're fifteen feet from a drunk seventeen year-old, please tell me how many seconds it takes for that person to close the distance to you if he's pissed off and moving fast? I'm guessing one and a half, maybe two seconds.

In this case, if the cop is telling the truth about the event, it's a tribute to the cop that he only tasered the guy instead of blowing him away. Yes, it's sad that the kid died from being tasered, but if you charge a cop you're asking to get severely injured or worse.


Edited to add: Gwendolyn is making sense.

[BlooInBloo]

36. "it's a tribute to the cop that he only tasered the guy" - Fuck some people are fucking sick.

[ellisonz]

48. I'm going to be very polite.

1. The story doesn't say anything specific other than "forced opened." The door could have normally been propped for air circulation.

2. He was in the kitchen when the cops arrived.

3. It's the cops word against the other kids. I don't take cops word on faith.

"it's a tribute to the cop that he only tasered the guy instead of blowing him away."

Shame on you.

[bertman]

59. So, I guess that you and BlooInBloo are saying that a cop who is attacked by an individual

is supposed to wrestle with the guy? Or try to get out of his way and run away from him while attempting to engage him in a meaningful dialogue? Or just let the guy manhandle him until the guy has gotten his frustrations out of his system?

I'm guessing you have never had a belligerent drunk attack you, because, if you had, you might be more realistic about this.

Anyone who attacks another person--meaning charges them in an aggressive manner--is asking to be dealt with severely. I have seen drunken individuals beat other people to a bloody pulp before bystanders could stop them. When an individual attacks someone there is never a pre-ordained outcome that says it's going to work out just fine for the person who is attacked. Most often they get hurt and sometimes they get killed.

I just don't get it. This sounds like you are arguing that a police officer does not have the right to defend him/herself from an attacker.

I'll be the first to say that cops should use the utmost restraint when in a bad situation, but once they are attacked, deadly force is appropriate. I don't expect that we should ask police officers to be cautious to the point that they put their lives in jeopardy.

[Raineyb]

60. How does being tazered to death rather than being blown away

make this any less egregious?

That's just fucking sick.

Regards

[truebrit71]

25. Where are the PIG apologists now?

:grr:

[BlooInBloo]

27. They're off tasing people.

[Pavulon]

44. Yeah fuck all those pigs. I mean I should be able to whip my dick out

and piss anywhere with no response from police. Even in front of your house, or in your office.

Shame he died, but if he had not been doing dumb shit he would not have been dealing with the police. Every police has been tazed, it appears that some people with heart conditions or tuned up seem to die at some percentage. Probably less than those who used to die from mace or ass kickings.

Back in the day police would beat your ass, and people died in choke holds or when police did not feel like fighting and just laid people out with service weapons. Police are not supposed to fight every one who feels like putting up a fight.

I bet that taser is less lethal than a 40 cal. Less lethal, if they use it they should have cause.

But fuck them pigs, until you need them...

[truebrit71]

50. I knew I'd get one of you to come forward...

"shame he died"?

Niiiiiiiiiiiice :eyes:

[Gwendolyn]

51. How do you think it should have been handled truebrit?

[WI_DEM]

64. I hope one day you won't ever need the police to help you

there are good ones and bad ones just like every profession. It's the bad ones we hear about all the time. But there may be a day when you might need a police officer for help, will you call them a pig to there face?

[PM Martin]

63. The RCMP is engaged in the same type of behavior.