will chaos be a necessity?

[Soylent Brice]

this is kind of a dreary point to make in light of the fact that we now have a democrat house, senate, and presidency. in light of recent events with our democratic leaders though (senate appointment shenanigans, bigot pastors, et. al.) i felt it fitting to ask this question:

things always get very bad before they ever improve. we've been shown in the last eight years how potentially bad things could have gotten, and a McSame presidency would only have sealed our disastrous fate. at the same time though i personally believe in much more drastic change, regardless of how far we have made it

i'm not exactly sure how drastic, although i have a few ideas.

anywho, with the way things are going we will either

a. start to see some real change with the "adults"

or

b. slowly evolve the way we always have through severes ups and downs, small victories and progress towards a more civil society and form of governing, but typically have the same collection of assholes running the fucking show.

the question is (i know, i'm a bag of wind) do we need something more radical to happen in order to see real change? do we really need to descend into chaos as a country with riots and/or protests, or just all around civil disobedience?

a lot of ideas that are viewed as radical, in my opinion, are considered so because the ideas themselves are not in line with people's "comfort zones". voting democratically after the era of bushistas was a huge step for the sheep and yet a no brainer for us. clearly we have more work to do but what in the hell will shake people completely out of apathy and off the couch?

where do we go from here? what do we really want as our future?

[Donnachaidh]

1. If something radical doesn't happen, we;ll have a permanent caste sytem in this country

Just like India.

I don't see how any of the *finger in the dike* fixes so far being offered is going to do anything much except assuage the guilty consciences of the government officials who PUT the middle class in this horrendous state in the first place. THEY live in gated communities, THEY have money to feed their families, THEY have the money to maintain not just one home, but two.

A $500 tax credit does diddly-shit for the person out of work for over six moths, who has had to tap into what was their retirement fund to pay their bills.

A $500 tax credit doesn't help the poor bastard who took a second part-time job and now only has that part time job, and is therefore INELIGIBLE for unemployment benefits on his main job which is GONE.

A $500 dollar tax credit doesn't help the poor schmuck who has to stand on line with 100 others, all competing for one LOUSY job.

[Soylent Brice]

3. from my observation, the founding fathers successfully

eliminated the monarch system from ever breeding in the new world. but what they did do is lay the groundwork for a whole slew of little King Louis' replicates instead. you mentioned gates. that image should infuriate every american. lil boosh and his gate fiasco is copmpletely parallel to "let them eat cake". when do we storm the gates?

coporate slavemasters are whipping the elected officials into doing their bidding, and reaping the rewards off of the backs of their own customer base.

this is not the best we can do.

[Romulox]

2. The Repubs have been so bad for so long, that the Dems have gotten away with being only a bit better

"b. slowly evolve the way we always have through severes ups and downs, small victories and progress towards a more civil society and form of governing, but typically have the same collection of assholes running the fucking show."

We've been regressing quite a bit under the last 3 or 4 admins.

[Soylent Brice]

5. politically and socially regressing, yes, but

things like technology and science are accelrating forward full speed ahead. sometimes i feel like the only reason technology is being allowed to accelerate the way it is (because we know the neocons hate facts and science) is so they can eventually find a way to take their fucking money with them when they die.

[el_bryanto]

4. It may be necessary but I would do what i can to fight against it

And for a more peaceful transition to a better system.

The people who are going to get hurt in your "chaos" are not the people who are causing the problems for the most part. Yeah a few corporate honchos might get lynched, but the wealthy, for the most part, have the means and the will to protect themselves. It's the poor and the middle class who will get pretty well screwed.

Bryant

[Soylent Brice]

6. and that's exactly what i'm referring to

"but the wealthy, for the most part, have the means and the will to protect themselves."

how do we stop THAT???

when i say radical it could be any sort of solution that is unheard of or not typically considered "do-able".

anything different than what we're doing now, preferably something creative that doesn't result in loss of life.

[el_bryanto]

7. I'm not in favor of stopping that

Rather I'm in favor of giving the poor and the wealthy the means to protect themselves as well.

Bryant

[Donnachaidh]

8. NOTHING has ever been GIVEN to the poor by this country

Why the hell would they start now?

Even Bill Clinton - the great white hope, basically shat all over the poor with his welfare *reform*. And what was given to offset that?

More PRISONS
More POLICE
LESS shelters
LESS food programs that didn't serve up a big old dose of *old time religion*
MORE laws legislating the poor out of the cities run by the wealthy class.

Oh but hey -- poor folks got shuttled out to minimum wage jobs at the malls -- to wait on the wealthy classes in the suburbs. They should have called it the "serfs on Wheels" program.

I fully expect to see people making livings picking through garbage dumps within the next FIVE years. If it's not already happening in areas already devastated like Detroit. I fully expect to see a permanent underclass that is given attention and scraps ONLY when an election is happening. I fully expect to see the 21st century version of the Depression portraits up on youtube far sooner than anyone expects.

And those videos will be uploaded by wealthy white kids who start trolling the poor areas, so they can giggle with their friends about those people who are forgotten.

Tell me again about that $500 tax credit Obama is going to give to the middle class? And we should be sooooooo grateful about this -- WHY? :sarcasm: