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Hope And Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 05:08 AM
Original message
Muslim family booted off U.S. airline gets apology

Muslim family booted off U.S. airline gets apology


Reuters Published: January 2, 2009

WASHINGTON: A Muslim family that was ordered off an AirTran Airways flight on New Year's Day received an apology and refund on Friday from the airline, which said its decision to bar the passengers was necessary.

Atif Irfan said in an interview with CNN that federal authorities removed him, seven family members and a friend from the flight after passengers overheard members of the group talking about the safest place to sit on the plane. He said they were being careful to avoid any "buzzwords" like "bomb" that would trigger a security alert.

The group was flying out of Reagan Washington National Airport and was headed for a religious retreat in Florida when other passengers apparently overheard the conversation and reported it to authorities.

AirTran, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings Inc., issued a statement apologizing to the nine and the other passengers who were inconvenienced by the incident. It said the airfare of the nine was refunded and other passengers would be reimbursed for expenses incurred by taking other flights.

"We apologise to all of the passengers -- to the nine who had to undergo extensive interviews from the authorities, and to the 95 who ultimately made the flight," the discount airline said in a statement.

"While ultimately this issue proved to be a misunderstanding, the steps taken were necessary," it said.

An earlier AirTran statement said the airline complied with all Transportation Security Administration and Homeland Security directives and had no discretion in the case.

All 104 passengers aboard the flight were taken off and rescreened and their baggage was checked again, AirTran said. Of the nine passengers in the group, six asked to be rebooked to Florida, AirTran said.

The Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations said it filed a complaint on Friday with the U.S. Department of Transportation. The Islamic civil rights group said in a statement it was working with the Muslim passengers and the airline to address the civil liberties issues related to the incident.

"We believe this disturbing incident would never have occurred had the Muslim passengers removed from the plane not been perceived by other travellers and airline personnel as members of the Islamic faith," the group said in its complaint.

Kashif Irfan, Atif's brother, told The Washington Post he thought the group, all but one of them U.S.-born citizens, were profiled because of their appearance. He said five of the six adults in the group are of South Asian descent, and all six are traditionally Muslim in appearance, with the men wearing beards and the women in headscarves.

Kashif Irfan, 34, is an anaesthesiologist, and his brother Atif, 29, is a lawyer, the Post reported. Both live in Alexandria, Virginia.

Atif Irfan told CNN U.S. law enforcement officials treated the group with kindness but the family is upset that the airline did not allow the group to reboard the plane or rebook a flight after they had been cleared of any wrongdoing.

The Post reported the group booked a flight on US Airways after the incident.

(Reporting by Donna Smith; Editing by Eric Beech)

http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2009/01/02/america/OUKWD-UK-USA-AIRLINE-MUSLIMS.php">Link
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. "the steps taken were necessary,..." - That's not an apology
You don't apologize and then say you did nothing wrong.
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Hope And Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I agree.Stupid paranoid people.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Score another hit for the terrorists!
Every time we do something stupid because we are scared, the terrorists win another victory.

In terrorism, that is THE WHOLE POINT; to keep everybody terrified.

It is costing us billions, while the real terrorists roll on the floor laughing.
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
28. Damn straight. That's like saying "I'm sorry you were offended by our necessary actions."
It's like when politicians say that they're sorry if anyone was offended (because, you know, otherwise they're not sorry).

They're probably just trying to protect themselves from the upcoming lawsuit.
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
57. Really. "We're sorry we did what we will do again ...
... and again, and again, and again."
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 05:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. They should have known better than to talk about something
so sensitive as where is "the safest place to sit on the plane" once they got to the airport and certainly once they got on board the plane.

Yea, that won't make people nervous. :eyes:

That's not the kind of conversation ANYONE of ANY ETHNICITY should be carrying on about. And I'm talking whites as well.

I don't think this family ended up turning out to be a threat, but I feel the flight crew was acting well within its rights to have taken the steps it did just to be safe.

Was it good P.R. for the airline? Probably not.

But maybe it taught some people a lesson that if you don't want to be hassled, keep your mouth shut about security buzz words that will attract the attention of authorities.

You have to be an idiot to do otherwise. Idiot with a capital "I."

I love knowing my pilots are looking out for my safety.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. If you're terrified, the terrorists have won already n/t
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I'm not terrified....but even a complete idiot knows there are
buzz words you don't use at airports and on airliners if you don't want to find yourself interrogated and perhaps ejected off of a flight.

This didn't just come about after 9/11 .. this has been going on well before the attacks.

Your comment is weak.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
29. Maybe you've gotten used to the stink of fear
and you can't smell it anymore.

Buzzwords like what, safety?

:rofl:
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
34. Again I agree.
since a poster down thread is keeping score, I agree with cboy
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. You really think that?
Wow.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yea, my dad flies for United Airlines and he doesn't appreciate
folks stirring up passengers with talk about safety and crashing and other obvious frightening comments that can lead to turmoil at flight level.

Considering his company lost two planes on September 11th, I don't blame him for being perhaps a little more sensitive than you who I'm pretty sure wasn't involved.

I also find it fascinating that people here think it's fine to talk about airplane safety on board a jet.

Certain buzzwords have long been considered off limits before 9/11.

Something else people refuse to acknowledge.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Funny, but I hear a talk about airplane safety every time I fly.
Go figger.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Really, what do people talk about?
??
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. "There are six exits on this aircraft, each equipped with
emergency slides. Please take note of the exit closest to you. Keep in mind the closest exit may be behind you."

So, we can't talk about what we hear every single time we fly?
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Fail.
Sorry to sound like a dick, which I have become regarding this topic, but you know that's not what I'm talking about.

And I'm not in the mood for smart assery. Sorry.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. I'm being utterly serious.
We aren't allowed to talk about the safety features of the Boeing 757 aircraft? How aviation magazines clearly identify where the safest sections are to sit in in the event of a crash?

That's preposterous.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. What's preposterous is that people actually feel it's worth while
and productive to discuss the purported "safest sections" of a Boeing 757 are to sit.

No, what people should be discussing is how many rows back and how many rows up are the nearest emergency exits, along with perhaps how to secure the oxygen masks.

Anything else is ridiculous.

Tell me donco6. Where is the safest section of a Boeing 757 aircraft?

I know many airline pilots and most roll their eyes whenever I've even so much as implied such a question.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Now, just re-read that post.
If that's really what you believe, then there's no point in talking further about it.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. LOL. I have never gotten on a plane and starting talking to either
people with me or people sitting next to me about airline safety.

But that's fine .. keep on talking about stuff like that and see how fast you're booted off of the plane.

The airlines will always error on the side of kicking someone off and simply apologizing later, versus keeping people onboard who potentially could cause an uproar at FL 380 and trigger panic.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. I had a friend not allowed to board a plane for joking about a weapon in the screening line
he is white and this was before 9/11

You know that sign before most security check points that says "No Threats, No weapons, No jokes"?....yeah they aren't kidding about that.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Well that's the other thing I've being trying to point out.....that the
government and airlines have been very paranoid about certain buzzwords that can spark unrest -- WELL BEFORE 9/11.

I bring this up and some how it's all about Arabs, and how I'm allegedly in favor of racially profiling Arabs and kicking them off planes. :eyes:

Could not be further from the truth.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Those who don't fly regularly, or don't have family who have to don't really understand
Once you're in the air, its you vs whatever is on the plane with you. There aren't any second chances at 38,000 feet. I have confidence in the engineers who built the planes, but I don't have the same confidence in a lot of my fellow passengers. I felt that way long before 9/11 and will keep feeling that way. If something seems amiss, and I don't say something until we're in the air, its already too late.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Right on!
:fistbump:
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. Joking about a WEAPON = Discussing the SAFEST PLACE TO SIT??????????
Edited on Sat Jan-03-09 09:48 PM by HughMoran
Holy crap - this is getting more and more ridiculous by the minute.
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
58. You haven't, but many people have.
Given the number of air travelers out there who are at least a little afraid to fly, such conversations are very common. The "safety talk" given by the flight attendant (or recording), practically invites passengers to discuss their safety.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. You're exactly right
Edited on Sat Jan-03-09 09:15 PM by Wolsh
General conscious is, that any conversation of where the safest place to sit is, is a fools exercise. No section is safer then any other during an actual crash while in flight. I'd like to know what "Aviation Magazine" the other poster was trying to cite, because the entire thing is absurd.

Airtran handled this situation correctly.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. FINALLY ... a voice of reason arrives.
:bounce:
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #17
30. Dude, you tried this other day on this SAME topic and got your ASS handed to you
Do you really want to make yourself look like a complete fool again?
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Hmmm, lemme see if I get this straight ... more people disagree
than agree with me about how this situation was handled, and that equates to having my ass handed to me.

I guess that fact more people voted for Proposition 8, it must mean my position is wrong and my ass was handed to me then as well, right?

Just because hard leftists all agree about something doesn't mean I'm wrong by default.

But a lot of you are sure trying to paint that picture!! :thumbsdown:
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. Cboy is exactly right in this instance.
If I was on that plane, regardless of their appearance, I would say something about the comments being made by those people. I fly A LOT, and I take no chances.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Thank you Wolsh. I don't think anyone should be making
comments that can potentially scare the plane, regardless of ethnicitity.

I don't think Whites, Blacks, Asians, Arabs, Latinos, Gays, Straights, Democrats, Republicans, Vegans ... ANYONE should be running their mouths about airline security.

And I've been stressing this for two days.

But apparently I'm a bigot for pointing out what are very strict rules.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
61. "In the event of a sudden loss of reading comprehension or intelligent thought...
oxygen masks will drop from the main page of each forum."

Tesha

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
31. Fuck those paranoid racist assholes.
And fuck anyone who thinks this was a good idea. I am so sick of the chicken-shits in this country who think the sky is falling every time someone brown gets on a plane. Make no mistake, those remarks would have gone unnoticed had the family been white. You know that as well as I do. Those people should OWN the airline after this. Too bad they can't beat the living shit out of the paranoid freaks who reported them.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
60. It's funny how many people's rights you support stepping-upon.
Except your one favorite group, ehh?

Tesha

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Tuvok Obama Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 05:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. There was no "misunderstanding"
This family talked about a perfectly reasonable subject -- SAFETY.

To assume that the subject of safety implies a threat is purposeful ignorance. They were singled out because of their skin color.

What kind of terrorists wonder where the safest seat is?

In fact, the airline cited "safety" as its reason for removing this family. Why is safety a terrorist buzzword one minute and a responsible reaction the next?

I hope they win an enormous lawsuit against this airline.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. They'll lose any lawsuit. The airlines, and in particular, the airline
captain has wide ranging authority to remove any and all people he or she deems as a potential threat or disruption.

You need to read the fine print on your boarding pass, along with airline policy.

The airlines apologized for publicity purposes only .. not because they're admitting guilt.

As you read in the article, "While ultimately this issue proved to be a misunderstanding, the steps taken were necessary,"

That means they won't hesitate to act again.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
39. Still supporting this insanity huh?
Holy friggin' christ are you obsessive.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Hey....complain to Air Tran if you don't like it, and while you're
at it, complain to the Air Transport Association.

Just because you stomp your feet and hold your breath until you're blue doesn't mean you're right.

Yup.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Well, since complaining/consumer action/lawsuits do no good, we should just shut DU down
...and all other blogs, the ACLU etc. Let's all me mindless conformists that don't question anything the corporatists tell us to do.

I am stunned that you would sacrifice your reputation and fold your hand over such a stupid issue. It's shocking to say the least. :wow:
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. I support it as well.
Edited on Sat Jan-03-09 09:40 PM by Wolsh
Its not like this family was roughed up, or told they couldn't fly ever again. Somethings just aren't to be discussed in the cabin of a plane. If in the same situation, regardless of the ethnicity of the passengers in question, I would have probably said something.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Since I've discussed this on numerous occasions, no, I don't believe you would.
You would not care if a regular old white person was discussing this.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. You're dead wrong.
I fly once a week for work. I'm a super paranoid flyer. I was before 9/11 and I am now. I've actually followed a white guy around a gate because he was acting really suspicious and kept leaving a bag next to the boarding area.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Uggh
I hate flying with people like you. It's bad for everybody without the neurotic paranoids raising the tension of everybody. I'd prefer people honestly discussing the safest place to sit on a plane to some sulking paranoid person.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. I'm neither sulking nor neurotic
I'm going to arrive to my destination safely. If you're some shady asshole breaking laws or making everyone tense because you feel the need to discuss the safest place to sit on a plane ( a stupid discussion to be having in the first place, in the event of a crash, there is no better seat to be in) then you need to be removed from the situation so I can travel safely and in peace.

I'm more worried about flying with naive apathetic folks, like you seem to be, then you should be flying with me.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Well, you're acting childish now
Noted.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. You called me sulking and neurotic, and you want to talk about acting childish?
Give me a break.


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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. Well I'll go one step further...
You're a chickenshit...

Boo
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. This is why I let it go
:)
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. and you're an apathetic light wieght dipshit who'd rather be PC then to actually look at whats going
on around you. See how much fun it is to call names. Asshole.
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Tuvok Obama Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
53. Fine print and company policy do not decide the verdict of a lawsuit
A judge will decide whether this treatment was acceptable, not your dad the pilot
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
26. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Deleted message
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. being careful to avoid any "buzzwords" ?
amongst thousands of other words in their vocabulary. So now we have a situation where people are guilty of not saying something ? What's this - the thought police in action ?
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
9. My oh my, how accustomed to the fascists we American citizens have become
I have read through the statements in this thread thus far, and over and over I hear that this family of American citizens is at fault for having a conversation that any one of us might engage in.

We are becoming ever more compliant and fearful, and we easily justify the unreasonable and irrational controls that are placed on our behavior, our words, our very thoughts.

Under the Bush Junta, the terrorists pretty much won right here in the US.

Big Brother is watching you. I wonder if we can ever rid ourselves of him.

Hekate


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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Our acquiescence will doom us all one day.
Subjecting ourselves to this ridiculous level of interrogation and self-censorship in the name of "safety" will lead to no good end.

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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
59. I totally agree. People are lockstep in compliance with it, and its scary.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
24. I bet they couldn't apologize fast enough
after learning one of the men they booted off was a lawyer.
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